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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 83943 times)

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Offline JayH

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SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #451 on: September 17, 2018, 01:56:14 AM »
Moby

The Emperor with no clothes.

Dear JG

That is 'MY' long-time used phrase ( please check )  - in relation to Donald 'Trampu' - and at least that contention has validity ... ;)

I did say that another Brit might offer another version of 'Brexit' .... perhaps you might like to TRY to counter any point I've made ....... ? 

Online John Gaunt

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #452 on: September 17, 2018, 06:02:43 AM »
Dear JG

That is 'MY' long-time used phrase ( please check )  - in relation to Donald 'Trampu' - and at least that contention has validity ... ;)

I did say that another Brit might offer another version of 'Brexit' .... perhaps you might like to TRY to counter any point I've made ....... ?
Hootanannie

‘YOUR’ phrase indeed.
One wonders where you appropriated it from?
My entire worldview is contrary to yours, so Brexit is but a part of it.
You are doom and gloom,I am hopeful and positive.
Nothing of Project Fear has come to pass, no matter how you try to sell it.
You remainers deserved the kicking you got.
Have a good day.

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #453 on: September 17, 2018, 08:00:47 AM »
Dear JG

That is 'MY' long-time used phrase ( please check )

Moby,

Maybe you protest too much?
The press and the left has been saying that about GOP presidents for quite a while.


About GW Bush
Pelosi questions Bush's competence
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/05/20/pelosi.bush/

About Ronald Reagan
The Clothes Have No Emperor: A Chronicle of the American '80s

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/742344.The_Clothes_Have_No_Emperor


About Richard Nixon
Nixon Cheered and Jeered in Georgia
http://www.nytimes.com/1973/11/19/archives/nixon-cheered-and-jeered-in-georgia-nixon-is-cheered-and-jeered-in.html

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #454 on: September 17, 2018, 09:12:28 AM »
Moby,

Maybe you protest too much?
The press and the left has been saying that about GOP presidents for quite a while.

I'm reserving this phrase for your current incumbent - as he really takes the biscuit ;)

GW Bush was clueless about places outside the US

 Ronald Raygun make a fine team with Mrs T


 Richard Nixon = crook

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #455 on: October 02, 2018, 10:23:46 AM »
Of course it's BAD...

Now the long awaited and much predicted arrival of the "Chickens are coming to roost " ...

UK 'Brexit' Secretary .."Brexit: Government considers NI-GB regulatory checks"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45711991

Riposte from N.I's DUP .. which is the thread holding the govt of the UK in power ..


DUP 'won't accept' Brexit Irish Sea checks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45719580



I can hardly 'take credit' for constantly pointing out what was BLEEDING OBVIOUS ...except to the daftest 'Brexit' supporter ...


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #456 on: October 02, 2018, 02:00:24 PM »
Of course it's BAD...

Now the long awaited and much predicted arrival of the "Chickens are coming to roost " ...

UK 'Brexit' Secretary .."Brexit: Government considers NI-GB regulatory checks"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45711991

Riposte from N.I's DUP .. which is the thread holding the govt of the UK in power ..


DUP 'won't accept' Brexit Irish Sea checks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-45719580



I can hardly 'take credit' for constantly pointing out what was BLEEDING OBVIOUS ...except to the daftest 'Brexit' supporter ...

Even if the DUP  refuse to concede any ground over the Ireland & North Sea border then Theresa can call an election in the hope of this time gaining enough seats to form a government without them. If she has at least taken the process as far as it can go then she can show the electorate that she has valid cause to call an election as it's the DUP being unreasonable. If she was to not try to offer forward a deal i.e Chequers Deal, that allows for a no border check, then she could be seen as the unreasonable one.

I've no doubt in my mind that Chequers Deal is not merely to show that's she's tried to reach a reasonable compromise. I think that she really would sign on it if the EU were to agree. They seem to have their goat up about it though for no good reason. They've got this month to come to an agreement or not, so we may hear more certainty towards the end of the month. If a deal is reached its just then for it to be voted on in Parliament and by the EU member states. They knocked it a few weeks back but my guess is they could all come on board whether they like it or not. Theresa subsequent visit to the US showed them who could be replacing them as our primary trading partner.

If Chequers does get sunk then it will be a play for a complete break from the EU and a hard border. In which case there will probably be a GE to decide the matter. Unless of course she can get all of her party and enough Labour MP's to side with her. There is also the possibility that she may get some or all of the DUP to abstain on the vote perhaps on a promise to go for a post Brexit deal with the idea of sorting out the border issue that way.

One way or another we're about to see who's right :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #457 on: October 02, 2018, 02:11:07 PM »
There is also the possibility that she may get some or all of the DUP to abstain on the vote perhaps on a promise to go for a post Brexit deal with the idea of sorting out the border issue that way.

One way or another we're about to see who's right :D

This is in an ample of Trench being  'analytical' ...;)

Thanks for proving you are 'wishful' thinking over realpolitik ....  You plainly don't understand the DUP and THEIR being likely to be wiped out by the UUP - IF they cause 'hard brexit' ...

You are clutching at straws


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #458 on: October 03, 2018, 12:40:31 PM »
This is in an ample of Trench being  'analytical' ...;)

Thanks for proving you are 'wishful' thinking over realpolitik ....  You plainly don't understand the DUP and THEIR being likely to be wiped out by the UUP - IF they cause 'hard brexit' ...

You are clutching at straws

Well Boris drew big support at the party conference yesterday which signifies there  is a lot of support out there for total Brexit. Now he could win the party enough seats if he became PM and oust the need for the DUP. Theresa could still manage to get enough seats if she went for another GE. All subtle signs point to another GE in the offing which suggest to me unless the EU  face reality in negotiations we are headed for a total Brexit. Just a few more weeks to find out. Expect the Autumn budget at the ens of October to be full of give aways to prep the electorate in the Tories favour for a GE. A freeze in fuel duty has already been announced which again suggests to me a successful outcome to negotiations is not assured.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #459 on: October 04, 2018, 12:11:05 AM »
That you might think Theresa May or any new Tory leader would risk a General Election proves how utterly clueless you are...


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #460 on: October 04, 2018, 01:07:08 AM »
That you might think Theresa May or any new Tory leader would risk a General Election proves how utterly clueless you are...

Theresa has already stated that she would not go for a customs union, to do so she would almost certainly get enough signatures for a leadership contest, an outcry from Leavers and a return of UKIP and permanent divisions within her party.

So yes, it's just easier and cleaner for her to call a General Election. She's not as likely to do as badly as last time. Even if she did as bad as to lose the Election at least then the problem is off her hands. Again she might face a leadership election but still being under the stigma of a previously bad GE performance she could get that anyway. Losing leadership of the opposition party is not as bad as losing leadership as PM, she would at any rate had another crack at winning a GE outright. She would also have little where to go with the party if she could not follow through on Brexit. It seems apparent that a vote on Brexit would still need to be passed in Parliament rather than it time out.

The more I think about it the more I think we may be better of leaving without a deal. It's a cleaner way and gets away from all the awkward entanglement with the EU. I think we could do pretty well in reaching agreements with the US instead. The EU have always been an awkward crowd for us to be a part off. Shame they chose to ditch the old EEC in favour of it.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #461 on: October 04, 2018, 02:16:06 AM »
IF any UK govt tries this they will not BE a UK govt.... this is all too much for you, Trenchie...

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #462 on: October 04, 2018, 03:01:36 AM »
IF any UK govt tries this they will not BE a UK govt.... this is all too much for you, Trenchie...

There is always a UK govt, the UK Gov control the UK, lol - why what would you expect to happen in such a scenario? Theresa won't push for a customs union, she might as well call a GE and if Labour get in they can do that. In the event of a no deal the DUP have outlived their usefulness so if she can't push through a no deal vote without them she'll press the ejector button on the DUP and call a General Election to get rid of them. If she does as bad as to lose the Election at least the problem is off her slate. In a no deal situation she may have no alternative to call a General Election whether she liked it or not, but this time she will be seen as having justification for doing so.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 04:13:58 AM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #463 on: October 04, 2018, 12:50:26 PM »
There is always a UK govt, the UK Gov control the UK, lol - why what would you expect to happen in such a scenario? Theresa won't push for a customs union, she might as well call a GE and if Labour get in they can do that. In the event of a no deal the DUP have outlived their usefulness so if she can't push through a no deal vote without them she'll press the ejector button on the DUP and call a General Election to get rid of them. If she does as bad as to lose the Election at least the problem is off her slate. In a no deal situation she may have no alternative to call a General Election whether she liked it or not, but this time she will be seen as having justification for doing so.
[/quote ]

You knew what I meant, OK ...    Let T May try - like last time - for an 'improvement ' - like last time :))

My prediction .....  A wonderful compromise ...we remain in the customs union


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #464 on: October 04, 2018, 01:49:50 PM »
A customs union is not acceptable to those that voted Leave. Unless Labour gain power I can't see it happening. That and they would need a fair few seats over the majority to counter any rebels in their party - at present roughly about 5 ish. I can't see Labour doing that we'll in a General Election, they are no more united than the Tories and they have hardly been showing stella performance recently.

May did badly last time for several reasons, she thought she would get a blank cheque to do what she liked of the back of Brexit support, she had two inexperienced advisor (friends) advising her badly with regards to paying for elderly care that scared off her core voters, the elderly. She also failed to recognise voters weariness with austerity. Corbyn on the other hand recognised austerity had become a big vote lose plus he baited the student voted by promising to scrap all student loans/debt - essentially winning them away from the Lib Dems.

This time around I think Theresa will have learned from her mistakes and won't be making the same mistakes again. I think she'll struggle to mitigate the student vote from Corbyn but she will probably get the elderly vote back and not lose votes on austerity, that may be enough.

Lib Dems will poll badly I think, they are a spent force these days. The old boy running the party isnt making any headway nor getting much publicity and the party is now real small. I don't see them getting the student vote back of Labour, not after Nick Clegg knifed the students in the back. They will only feature in terms of taking votes that would be useful to Labour and so splitting the Remain voters in places.

I myself would be curious to see how many immigrants stay in the UK after Brexit and where else theor preffered destination if choice would become. I'm thinking a lot the East Europeans may chose Germany, it's near to them, has a strong economy so I think they will get the brunt off it. I doubt Germans will like it as they are already swamped with asylum seekers in the most populace country in Europe. Gerexit anyone :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #465 on: October 05, 2018, 01:30:20 AM »
Well, Threnchie

the time for putting your 'theories' to the test draws ever closer .... 


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #466 on: October 05, 2018, 06:59:29 AM »
Well, Threnchie

the time for putting your 'theories' to the test draws ever closer ....

I for one will be happy for all this Brexit stuff to come to a conclusion, it has been rattling on too long to my mind. So in a few weeks we shall know.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #467 on: October 06, 2018, 02:10:53 AM »
The short read is that Unilever decides to maintain a London base. Doom and gloom Moby does not get it or see the big picture. The sun will also rise post Brexit over the UK.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-45545225

The pressures to stay/move were far more than what is noted in the above article.

There is this Clash song; Should I stay or should I leave . . .
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 02:26:57 AM by BdHvA »
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #468 on: October 06, 2018, 02:54:59 AM »
Well news out today is that a deal may be on the horizon:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45768848

This is despite Barnier & Tusk apparently being strongly opposed to Chequers. Course there is still to see what comes out if a deal is reached. At the earliest by the next EU summit in a week or so time.

BdHvA, I think this is the position of a lot of companies. Many have a pro-Remain stance and throw their toys out of their pram by not getting their way. They are not interested in how the British people are suffering under the EU or by democratic values, they just consider their own short sighted interest. Those that come to their senses though realise it us foolish to put sentiment above reasoned judgement and see they will lose out to their competitors by going with emotion and ditching the UK. Their competitors will soon happily fill the void they create and then they will have real competition on their hands.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #469 on: October 07, 2018, 08:10:10 AM »
The short read is that Unilever decides to maintain a London base. Doom and gloom Moby does not get it or see the big picture. The sun will also rise post Brexit over the UK.

Moby 'gets' the about face was pro-brexit SHAREHOLDERS ...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/unilever-hq-move-london-rotterdam-headquarters-netherlands-brexit-a8569861.html

He wonders when BdHvA will check ANYTHING before proving he hasn't understood ....

Here's a clue ... I'm part of the Unilever Pension fund and get the news about what the group is up to ...

Now, let's discuss the car makers and AirBus leaving - if there's a 'no deal' / hard 'Brexit' ...

http://www.dw.com/en/brexit-bmw-follows-airbus-in-warning-of-cut-to-uk-operations/a-44359142

Brexit: BMW follows Airbus in warning of cut to UK operations

Some folks remind me of Hall and Oates ."out of touch" ;)






« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 08:15:19 AM by msmob »

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #470 on: October 07, 2018, 01:50:20 PM »
Mobe, most of those are idle threats by big companies wishing to determine what happens in a country rather than the people. If we give into them we become worthless drones having no power over anything other than what they tell us and what they have stitched up in the backroom without our knowing. These companies know it's not in their best interests to move in doing so they would create a vacuum for rival companies and new start ups to fill. Then know that to give any rival the potential for such a big stake in a developed economy could within a few short years spell disaster for their company.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #471 on: October 07, 2018, 01:56:15 PM »
Mobe, most of those are idle threats

Trenchie, they will be  pragmatic business decisions ...'drones' are those - who like Turkeys voted for such a scenario - where they vote away heir jibs


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #472 on: October 08, 2018, 02:09:22 AM »
heir jibs

You've only just left the UK Mobe's and you’re already back talking the Irish lingo :) Remember back over here we say 'their jobs' ;D

I note that few are the companies that have actually moved rather than just talked about it and we are only about six months away from Brexit right now so I would say their forward planning have already been done and they intend operating in the UK after Brexit.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #473 on: October 08, 2018, 02:14:51 AM »
where they vote away heir jibs

Vote away their jobs, of course..

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #474 on: October 08, 2018, 02:22:12 AM »

I note that few are the companies that have actually moved rather than just talked about it and we are only about six months away from Brexit right now so I would say their forward planning have already been done and they intend operating in the UK after Brexit.

1/ Firstly we even have those MPs seeking a hard brexit setting up firms in Dublin - due to " 'Brexit' uncertainty" - ask Jacob - ( I'm - yet another -duplicitous politician ) Rees-Mogg)

2/ You simply can't be aware of the steps financial institutions are making to move - if 'we' end up crashing out - rather than agree..I know programmers who have been putting these measures in place since the referendum vote ... firms all over Europe are ready to cash in ...

3/ Now we have firms moving the annual maintenance shut down to March 2019 to avoid stock issues .... think they'lll hang around long - if they continue to have staffing / stock issues ?


 

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