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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 75524 times)

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Offline DaveNY

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #575 on: October 30, 2018, 02:38:01 PM »
and ? ..  Did you stop to think - even for a second - that emerging economies have more spending power ?

msmob will you please stop posting on subjects you don't understand? How could an emerging economy such as Poland have more spending power than an established economy such as the UK? The UK is a net contributor to the EU, Poland is not.

Once again you're demonstrating you don't know what you're talking about. Spending power is " Authority granted by a legislature to an administration (government) to spend public funds in accordance with an approved budget."

The UK, Germany, France - the big economies in the EU have far more spending power than Poland, the Baltic States and other new EU members.

So how could Poland or the Baltic States have more spending power than the UK?

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/spending-power.html
http://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

Poles came here, paid their taxes, national insurance and dud the crappy jobs Brits were too lazy to do  - They opened new biz and the UK shops made sure their favourites are available here  .. a bit like the Irish having Guinness


The Poles did the crappy jobs in the UK because they didn't speak English and/or didn't have a needed skill set for employment in the UK. Of course those Poles who were in the UK illegally had to take crappy jobs because they were in the UK illegally.

I don't know where you are 'learning' this stuff, but the doom merchants have seen a few crunch point moments and the Euro is stronger than the Dollar - since it kicked off ...Whoops

Another fallacy. Just because one currency is stronger than another it does NOT mean the economy of the stronger currency is better than that of the weaker currency. For example, the Japanese economy is larger and stronger than the Canadian dollar yet 1 Canadian dollar is worth about 86 Japanese yen.


Many Poles who came here left because the GBP got weeker v their currency and THEIR economy has improved - whilst our - thanks to 'Brexit uncertainty' has stalled. 

Maybe some Poles left because of the weak GBP or maybe they left for other reasons. Many immigrants, legal and illegal, are economic migrants. They go where they can get work and then return home when they've earned enough.

Poles could also have gotten homesick. As someone who's lived abroad I can say I've often missed the comforts of American living. 

Some migrants collect citizenships from living and working abroad. Maybe the Poles simply moved to the UK to get UK citizenship and once that was done they returned home or moved elsewhere? I've known people that have collected 2 or 3 additional citizenships from living and working abroad. Having several legal passports makes travel easier and in many cases it can be passed on to their children. After all a UK passport is far better than a Polish passport for business and travel.

Polish businesses operating in Poland and elsewhere were paying top dollar to recruit educated Poles to work for them. Maybe that was an incentive to leave the UK.


Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #576 on: October 30, 2018, 04:25:39 PM »


WOW! Is all I can say you are amazing. An anti-immigrant clod head, and an ignorant and biased man. It is amusing how you will try to wiggle almost as much as Moby.

If you're saying Trench is "An anti-immigrant clod head, and an ignorant and biased man" then you'll have to say the Polish government and the majority of Poles in Poland are at least as bad. The Polish government has repeatedly said they are not going to take any asylum seekers. The government has repeatedly said Poland is for Poles. I guess they don't even want any Brits or Dutch.

Then there are other countries that are at least as bad as Poland for refusing to allow migrants to live, work and get citizenship in their countries. Economic powerhouses such as Japan, South Korea and China. China has by far the largest GDP(PPP). Almost 20% larger than the US. These countries could easily afford to take in tens of thousands of migrants but won't. They must be anti-immigrant using your logic. Probably racists?


What about Russia? The largest country in the world by area. Well over twice the size of the US with a stagnating population that is only about 40% the size of the US population. Since Russia already has a large Muslim population with many Muslims in large rural areas Russia could easily take in several million Muslim migrants but doesn't take in any of those flowing out of the Middle East and Africa. They must be anti-immigrant using your logic. Probably racists?

http://www.euronews.com/2018/01/02/poland-refuses-mid-east-migrants
http://www.thenews.pl/1/10/Artykul/383647,Poland-only-accepts-returning-Poles-under-migration-policy-PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)

Lets deal with simples for those who are challenged.

1990 Poland leaves the Soviet sphere as the wall comes down. This process began a decade earlier.

1993 The European Union is formed.

2003 Poland votes to join the Euro Community.

The investment that came from Brussels was rather limited. Foreign companies indeed did invest in Poland and this was essential for there success. But the reality of Poland today is due to Polish leaders and people. Sadly the same can not be said of Ukraine.[/font][/size]

Poland has received large amounts of funding from the EU. Not to mention being a member of the EU means that Polish goods are able to enter EU countries without the tariffs that those countries outside the EU must pay. Poland has benefited immensely from being a member of the EU.

http://www.roedl.net/pl/en/services/state_aid_advice/eu_funds_in_poland_20142020.html

Online msmob

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« Reply #577 on: October 30, 2018, 11:45:30 PM »
msmob will you please stop posting on subjects you don't understand?

As we'll see , you need to be taking your own 'advice' ;)

How could an emerging economy such as Poland have more spending power than an established economy such as the UK? The UK is a net contributor to the EU, Poland is not.

I 'missed' when I made such a claim, whilst it is possible you mis-read and misunderstood - I was pointing out that when economies improve, the population have more spending power - ( as would the govt)

Perhaps saying CONSUMERS would have been clearer ?



The Poles did the crappy jobs in the UK because they didn't speak English and/or didn't have a needed skill set for employment in the UK. Of course those Poles who were in the UK illegally had to take crappy jobs because they were in the UK illegally.

Here's yet another example of DaveNY proving he ought to take his own advice

1/ Unlike you, I lived in the UK during this time and have encountered many Poles - who tended to be better educated and used the crappy jobs as stepping stones.

2/ How could a Pole be 'illegal' in the UK? - Unless they are a threat to the Public Health or Hygiene of the UK or have Criminal convictions - they cannot be excluded - they have freedom to settle here - for now. :cluebat:

Another fallacy. Just because one currency is stronger than another it does NOT mean the economy of the stronger currency is better than that of the weaker currency. For example, the Japanese economy is larger and stronger than the Canadian dollar yet 1 Canadian dollar is worth about 86 Japanese yen.

Once again, you have jumped in on a discussion and totally got it wrong..  I WAS pointing out that the Euro has - at the time of writing - been better performing, overall - since its inception - than the USD..




Maybe some Poles left because of the weak GBP or maybe they left for other reasons. Many immigrants, legal and illegal, are economic migrants. They go where they can get work and then return home when they've earned enough.

Poles could also have gotten homesick. As someone who's lived abroad I can say I've often missed the comforts of American living. 

Once again, how many Poles living in the UK have you met... to 'know'?  I had the pleasure of knowing Poles from the first wave of migrants - my 'surrogate Grand parents (Zbigniew and Helena) who came to the UK in 1946 with  rucksacks on their backs and holes in their shoes .. They were Polish middle class from Warsaw and could not go back to Soviet totalitarianism -settling in the UK ..   Helena saw the new Polish wave as having the potential to upset  the British - as they'd work harder and the Poles would drink harder, too !    :) 

She was wise ((  There are a LOT of ignorant folk about..


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-migration-uk-brexit-referendum-latest-net-fall-figures-why-racism-hate-crime-brexodus-government-a7911196.html


It's a 'Brexitos' whereby 28 year olds - who came here as kids  aged eight - no longer feel welcome

Many folks who voted Brexit didn't 'get' that their carers would up sticks and leave their care home.
 



Some migrants collect citizenships from living and working abroad.

)) At 4.5 k USD per UK citizen - I KNOW you are now out of your depth - WHAT would having a UK passport give one over a EU, Polish passport , DUH ?

Maybe the Poles simply moved to the UK to get UK citizenship and once that was done they returned home or moved elsewhere? I've known people that have collected 2 or 3 additional citizenships from living and working abroad. Having several legal passports makes travel easier and in many cases it can be passed on to their children. After all a UK passport is far better than a Polish passport for business and travel.

You really are funny

http://www.henleypassportindex.com/global-ranking The UK ( and US) passport means visa free travel to 186 nations with Poland at 175 - With the possibility of a no-deal 'Brexit' - may be meaning a Visa being necessary to EU nations, for UK passport holders  - the Polish passport could be a MUCH better option ..  ;)

My 'Oirish' passport 'only' gives me visa free access to 185 nations











Polish businesses operating in Poland and elsewhere were paying top dollar to recruit educated Poles to work for them. Maybe that was an incentive to leave the UK.
[/quote]

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #578 on: October 31, 2018, 01:27:37 AM »
While you are picking yourself off the floor

Yet another example of the chaos awaiting employers and EU nationals quite legally working and residing

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46035919

"Firms may have to do "rigorous" checks on EU staff if there is a no-deal Brexit, a minister has suggested.

Caroline Nokes said employers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between people who had settled in the UK and those who had just arrived.

She also revealed the system for EU citizens to register for settled status still didn't work on Apple phones."

No doubt the same will apply to school kids, university students in the event the UK Govt cannot agree a deal with the EU  :deadhorse:

Naturally any change requires work. None of this is any real problem and can be gone through. Nearly every Library in the UK has computers that EU citizens can register. The system not working on an iPhone is hardly the end of the world, if they used the same OS as everyone else they wouldn't have a problem, a case of paying over the odds and getting less for it me thinks ;)

I think Brexit will shape up quite nicely when it comes in. I think you'll find Britain as a society improving as a result. A more reasonable immigrant size population/workforce than the oversized immigrant population/workforce we have been having to put up with causing problems in our society.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #579 on: October 31, 2018, 02:26:53 AM »
My thoughts are also that a General Election could be quite likely be called in January/early February in the case of a no deal. I don't believe the EU is sincere in reaching a deal with the UK, hoping instead that a no deal will slide the UK to a customs union/rejoining the EU through a GE, etc.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #580 on: October 31, 2018, 08:14:59 AM »
On the uptake of Irish passports if a UK person is eligible it stands to reason to get one. It's potentially one of the benefits of Brexit, the preferential terms I was talking about Mobers. The Irish passport will continue to allow visa free access to countries the current UK passport has. After no deal Brexit yes we may lose visa free access to some countries, possibly the EU and they will likely do to us. However we could well be likely to pick up visa free access to other countries particularly as time roles on. So it makes sense having the two which together could slow the broadest possible range of visa free travel.

There is also the benefit of you lose one you still got the other as back up & likewise another embassy for assistance. I think until it was publicised a lot of people didn't know they were eligible for an Irish passport or didn't consider it. Had it been regardless of Brexit people could have likely still gotten one as a back up in any event.

To me the idea of carrying a passport book that could easily be lost or stolen and nit easily remedied is a silly idea in its day and age. It should have been replaced by a card long ago and these days have a secure online digital backup like with airline tickets that can just be brought up on screen. Pointless fuss for the embassies otherwise.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #581 on: October 31, 2018, 12:27:57 PM »

I 'missed' when I made such a claim, whilst it is possible you mis-read and misunderstood - I was pointing out that when economies improve, the population have more spending power - ( as would the govt)

Perhaps saying CONSUMERS would have been clearer ?

That would only work in their own country, in this case Poland. If they move to the UK and don't speak the language. Don't have credentials recognized by the local employers and/or government. Don't bring lots of money. Then they're simply poor immigrants, assuming they came to the UK legally, with few job skills not consumers with increased spending power.


Here's yet another example of DaveNY proving he ought to take his own advice

1/ Unlike you, I lived in the UK during this time and have encountered many Poles - who tended to be better educated and used the crappy jobs as stepping stones.

If the Poles you meet, you seem to know everyone, were better educated why didn't they start with better jobs? Because they needed to learn the local language? Get credentials recognized locally?


2/ How could a Pole be 'illegal' in the UK? - Unless they are a threat to the Public Health or Hygiene of the UK or have Criminal convictions - they cannot be excluded - they have freedom to settle here - for now.

Still need a valid passport and the means to support yourself and family. If you don't speak the language and lack needed job skills, you might not be able to support yourself and family.

 
Once again, you have jumped in on a discussion and totally got it wrong..  I WAS pointing out that the Euro has - at the time of writing - been better performing, overall - since its inception - than the USD..

You're saying the euro has out performed the USD since its inception when it replaced the former EU currencies in circulation at the time? Based on what? Your opinion?

msmob the guy who knows everyone and according to msmob knows everything. Why doesn't Theresa May hire you to negotiate Brexit? I'm sure you'd either get a better deal with Brussels or convince the leavers they were wrong.



)) At 4.5 k USD per UK citizen - I KNOW you are now out of your depth - WHAT would having a UK passport give one over a EU, Polish passport , DUH ?

You really are funny

http://www.henleypassportindex.com/global-ranking The UK ( and US) passport means visa free travel to 186 nations with Poland at 175 - With the possibility of a no-deal 'Brexit' - may be meaning a Visa being necessary to EU nations, for UK passport holders  - the Polish passport could be a MUCH better option ..  ;)

My 'Oirish' passport 'only' gives me visa free access to 185 nations

Foreign countries set their own entry requirements. Canada has special entry requirements for citizens of EU member states Bulgaria and Romania that UK citizens don't have to meet.

Perhaps some countries have special requirements for Poles? Don't know but if they do then having a UK passport, which is among the best in the world, would solve that problem.

http://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2017/04/canada_s_new_entryrulesforbrazilianbulgarianandromaniancitizens.html












Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #582 on: November 04, 2018, 09:09:02 PM »
The pressures ramping up for another vote on Brexit. More than 70 business leaders have signed a letter to the Sunday Times calling for a public vote on the UK's Brexit deal.

In the coming months the pressures likely to increase on UK PM Theresa May. The Downing Street source told the BBC: "The Prime Minister has been clear - no second referendum. "We had a people's vote, it was in June 2016."

This attitude will likely change. When she and her MPs are being told by their biggest donors that unless there's a second referendum they can forget about any donations because the donations will be going to the opposition. When that happens May will be forced to call a second referendum or resign.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46086336

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #583 on: November 10, 2018, 02:05:41 AM »
Well, yesterday we found out Boris Johnson had a brother and even more surprising he had been quietly hiding out in a low key cabinet Job, Transport, etc. He had just resigned like his brother Boris as he does not like the Brexit deal Ms May is reaching with Brussels. He is asking for a referendum but not on a customs union but between the Chequers Deal & No deal, himself favouring No Deal.

It's looking interesting times ahead as its looking like the Brextremists in the Tory Party are now increasingly unlikely to back Chequers unless it changes enough by December. Jeremy Corbyn has said he won't back Chequers which means Ms May will very likely be short of the votes needed to pass the vote on it. If so she could well call a General Election on the matter and the October Budget was certainly geared to holding a GE I believe.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #584 on: November 10, 2018, 03:02:47 AM »
Trench, must you keep demonstrating just how CLUELESS you are ?

Younger brother Jo is REMAIN  :wallbash: ..as his father and sister

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/09/jo-johnson-quits-as-minister-over-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-boris

Mrs May is trying to plug fingers in a near bursting dyke from two fronts ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46147628

Brexit: DUP accuses May of breaking promises on Irish border

Are any of my warnings sounding familiar to you  :popcorn:




Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #585 on: November 10, 2018, 10:12:44 AM »
Trench, must you keep demonstrating just how CLUELESS you are ?

Younger brother Jo is REMAIN  :wallbash: ..as his father and sister

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/09/jo-johnson-quits-as-minister-over-theresa-mays-brexit-plan-boris

Mrs May is trying to plug fingers in a near bursting dyke from two fronts ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46147628

Brexit: DUP accuses May of breaking promises on Irish border

Are any of my warnings sounding familiar to you  :popcorn:

Ah, the news reporting on the BBC didn't make it very clear so he is a Remoaner then. Still doesn't explain why he had a girls name :-\

Well the Irish always like to argue whatever the case. It appears at the moment though that Ms May's deal looks set to please no-one. Depends on whether they decide to put differences aside to avoid a lot of turmoil or if the sides in despure are up for a fight. At the moment though it's looking like the Chequers Deal will be sunk and a General Election will be called by Theresa to try to resolve the issue. December could be an interesting month :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #586 on: November 13, 2018, 06:31:48 PM »
Well Mobers if you're still going it looks like the EU & UK have reached an agreement/Deal. So something looks like it will come   out off the woodwork. We'll see what it is soon and who may find it acceptable or not. Essentially if it is too customs union or will upset too many MP's to get through.

At the moment the risk looks like it could fail to get the needed votes as a result of opposition from Remain MP'S & Brextremists as you call them Mobers. Part depends on how many come on board and how many just don't vote either way. Will be interesting to see what is done on EU immigration as this was one off the 'red lines' not just for Theresa May but for most who voted Leave such as myself to take back control off this area. Should be interesting.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #587 on: November 14, 2018, 11:35:57 AM »
Well it looks like although they are getting there the draft will need a bit more work if it is to stand any chance of getting through Parliament. Essentially though there will now be a mechanism to deal with any Irish backstop/temporary customs union it looks like the EU will hold the decision on whether the UK can break out of this temporary arrangement. This will be a deal breaker for both Brexiteer MP's & DUP MP's meaning that the Deal as it stands would likely fail to pass in Parliament. I think unless there is room made in the mechanism for the UK to vote to end any temporary customs union it's deal as a whole will not likely make any headway in parliament. My guess is that there will be a bit more back & forth on this deal before it goes to a vote.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #588 on: November 14, 2018, 01:08:30 PM »
Trenchie

It's a 500 page document and it's FAR too earlier to pronounce judgement - as lots of Politicians are doing  :wallbash:

It seems that there could be various extremes voting AGAINST the deal -to bring the govt down - and that might mean a no deal scenario - which would be a disaster

Stability seems a long way off







Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #589 on: November 14, 2018, 01:23:22 PM »
Trenchie

It's a 500 page document and it's FAR too earlier to pronounce judgement - as lots of Politicians are doing  :wallbash:

It seems that there could be various extremes voting AGAINST the deal -to bring the govt down - and that might mean a no deal scenario - which would be a disaster

Stability seems a long way off

Doesn't look like the gov are going to make any changes from the initial reaction of the PM. Unless this changes then this deal is doomed. It's not so much the ins & outs of the 500 page document but what they have already read as not being agreeable to the disputed parties. If this deal remains unchanged and gets voted down as it seems certain to do and that will lead to a no deal exit from Europe with no further fuss then that would be the best way out of all of this :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #590 on: November 14, 2018, 11:01:51 PM »
Trenchie

As ever, you prove how clueless you are

A no deal solution means will LOSE thousands of jobs and BIG multi nationals pull out - as moving goods and workers will be too much of a hassle

Prices will go up - as we will go onto the default WTO tariff rates

No deal, means no agreements on immigration / customs and 'good luck' with making the border with Ireland 'secure' ...

There'd be violence and corruption, too


Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #591 on: November 15, 2018, 01:19:17 AM »
Trenchie

As ever, you prove how clueless you are

A no deal solution means will LOSE thousands of jobs and BIG multi nationals pull out - as moving goods and workers will be too much of a hassle

Prices will go up - as we will go onto the default WTO tariff rates

No deal, means no agreements on immigration / customs and 'good luck' with making the border with Ireland 'secure' ...

There'd be violence and corruption, too

Well it will all be hard border so we'll have complete control :D

I think the short term disruption and economic fall out will be worth it for a better long term situation. I don't see it being that bad to be honest as some might think. At any rate we will avoid the £39bn the EU are trying to extort from us.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #592 on: November 15, 2018, 01:53:30 AM »
Well it will all be hard border so we'll have complete control


Once ore - you are talking out of you arse

With watch-towers and checkpoints and helicopters 'we' didn't have that and the IRA made millions smuggling  :wallbash:

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« Reply #593 on: November 15, 2018, 02:57:45 AM »
Trenchie

As ever, you prove how clueless you are
Methinks it’s Moby who’s the clueless one.
Quote
A no deal solution means will LOSE thousands of jobs and BIG multi nationals pull out - as moving goods and workers will be too much of a hassle
You mean like all those jobs lost and those companies that relocated after June 23 2016 - NOT.
Quote
Prices will go up - as we will go onto the default WTO tariff rates
More Remoaner scaremongering, eh.
Quote
No deal, means no agreements on immigration / customs and 'good luck' with making the border with Ireland 'secure' ...
And you know all this how.......?
Quote
There'd be violence and corruption, too
My, what a scary picture you paint. I’m quaking in my boots (or I would be if I had them on) 😂

Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #594 on: November 15, 2018, 06:58:08 AM »
Well it looks like things are already all over for Theresa May and the Brexit deal. Cabinet Ministers are resigning fast, Six already including the Brexit Secretary who was supposed to have negotiated this deal. So a big vote of no confidence in the deal and a vote of no confidence in her looking almost certain now. Unless she can turn this around mightily quick with some much needed alterations to the deal it will be all over for her in a matter of days. Doesn't look like the deal will survive to a vote on 7th December nor probably her.

There's real hatred of the EU out there and I for one am relishing a showdown with the EU under a No Deal Brexit :D It's going to be fun watching the EU economy creaking and falling apart while ours sails away :) Will serve them right for thinking they can dictate to us in negotiations and treat us as an insignificant insubordinate vassal state. Looking to me like Boris will get another crack at the leadership very soon :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #595 on: November 15, 2018, 02:44:35 PM »
Methinks it’s Moby who’s the clueless one.

SO 'clueless' that all my predictions are coming home to roost ... N.Ireland was going to bring folks to their senses as to the border issue with freedom of movement being sacrosanct and ensuring the leave campaigners were kidding themselves 

Whilst I'll concede some brextremists are daft enough to STILL think a 'no deal scenario'  is 'good news' and could still TRY to bring this deathwish to fruition ( how much did the Pound fall today? ) -- I'm still hopeful that most politicians will ( eventually) be more worried about losing their seats and realising that project fear is becoming project fact   

Jobs will go in UK car plants ( Aerospace industries? ) etc.,  and it is noted you failed to counter that even Brextremists would rather build new car plants in the Far East ( Dyson ) - in nations that have just done free trade deals with the EU -  than bet on the UK ....  double stds rule OK ?

The recent output figures for UK manufacturing are down and retail sales are down ....  I see v.little to be optimistic about until we put a stop to the lemming mode


Offline Trenchcoat

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« Reply #596 on: November 15, 2018, 04:32:34 PM »
The EU have condemned the deal to failure as a result of them being unwilling to renegotiate/negotiate/amend the deal they have put forward to the UK. That was the standpoint the EU put forward today. There is no way it can pass, the EU stating that the UK is held in a customs union backstop with all that entails which the UK electorate already rejected in the Referendum as it's the same as being a EU member basically sinks this deal.

There's no way the DUP MP'S  will vote for this deal. The ERG/Brexiteer group of Tory MP'S won't either. Labour Rebel MP'S are likely to abstain from the vote or even vote against. Labour Remainers are unlikely to vote for it as they are hell bent on a second referendum and want a cutoms union/EU not this deal and Jeremy Corbyn is opposed to it as he states it needs more work on it - and I agree.

In some ways it's a shame as it could have passed with a few amendments done before this deal draft was released. The backstop mechanism basically needs an ability to exit the temporary customs union I would have suggested by a joint vote from the UK and Northern Ireland governments both holding a vote to end it and it passing. As it is we have the bizarre situation where the EU think they will hold power over whether the UK can end it's trade agreements despite us being a sovereign power, lol.

No doubt suggestions like this came up but the EU was either looking for a way to scupper the deal or needlessly wanted to make us their b*tch as seems to be their mentality. They don't get it we voted out the EU because we don't want them in power over us.

As it is it looks like a leadership contest is on the way, possibly an announcement of the vote of no confidence letters will be given tomorrow, the weekend or on Monday.

If the deal ever makes it to Parliament it faces certain defeat which I hope will put us onto the road of a No Deal Brexit. I think whatever the cost I would love to see the EU economically crippled over it and taken down another much needed peg or two :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #597 on: November 15, 2018, 10:31:18 PM »
Trench - as an employed person you will be one of the first to be bewildered when unemployment rates go up in the no deal scenario you so desire ...at least that will be a service to FSU W.

The EU are quite correct to be fed up with 'us' as we clearly can't agree on anything.

You constantly back up my assertion- statically proven -  that  smarter ( better educated ) - people voted remain ;)


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« Reply #598 on: November 15, 2018, 11:18:29 PM »
SO 'clueless' that all my predictions are coming home to roost ... N.Ireland was going to bring folks to their senses as to the border issue with freedom of movement being sacrosanct and ensuring the leave campaigners were kidding themselves 

Whilst I'll concede some brextremists are daft enough to STILL think a 'no deal scenario'  is 'good news' and could still TRY to bring this deathwish to fruition ( how much did the Pound fall today? ) -- I'm still hopeful that most politicians will ( eventually) be more worried about losing their seats and realising that project fear is becoming project fact   

Jobs will go in UK car plants ( Aerospace industries? ) etc.,  and it is noted you failed to counter that even Brextremists would rather build new car plants in the Far East ( Dyson ) - in nations that have just done free trade deals with the EU -  than bet on the UK ....  double stds rule OK ?

The recent output figures for UK manufacturing are down and retail sales are down ....  I see v.little to be optimistic about until we put a stop to the lemming mode
Yes, we know how much weight to give to your ‘predictions’. About as much as to a used sheet of toilet paper is how much.
Moby still banging the remoaner drum.

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« Reply #599 on: November 15, 2018, 11:19:48 PM »
Trench - as an employed person you will be one of the first to be bewildered when unemployment rates go up in the no deal scenario you so desire ...at least that will be a service to FSU W.

The EU are quite correct to be fed up with 'us' as we clearly can't agree on anything.

You constantly back up my assertion- statically proven -  that  smarter ( better educated ) - people voted remain ;)

The EU are having a laugh, they sent Theresa May a Dodgy Deal term - the backstop needing EU approval for the UK to get out off. They gave her a real banana to hold and basically set her up. She fell into the trap and is foolishly left holding onto the deal. Best thing she can do is ditch and move straight to No Deal or it will drag her down. One Tory backbencher even described thd deal as 'dead on arrival' lol as there is no way it will or should go through Parliament.

I think the EU may stop laughing soon when we leave the EU without paying any money they were trying to hold us to random for and their member states want to pull out of the EU through falling trade revenue with thd UK. I think we will have the last laugh there.

I don't think your getting it either Mobers, it's a free Britain we want ;D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

 

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