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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 38997 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #625 on: November 29, 2018, 03:44:42 PM »
...and still the 'patriots' believe the Bank of England have an agenda to fib?))

Then there's Public Accounts Committee's findings that many UK govt depts will not be reading and 'we' are blowing money on IT systems to 'cope' with a  'no deal scenario'..

Just search Brexit reality check..

I feel so sorry for those Brits providing services that in the event of a no deal, or Mrs May's 'deal will suddenly find they are illegally working...

Bonkers..

Well there are those that gave their lives for this country's freedom and then there are those like Mobe that wouldn't spare a fiver for our country's freedom.

Personally I would rather put up with any short term disruption and any possible downers in our economy because the longer term economic view looks a lot brighter than staying in the EU.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #626 on: November 29, 2018, 09:15:06 PM »
Well there are those that gave their lives for this country's freedom and then there are those like Mobe that wouldn't spare a fiver for our country's freedom.

Personally I would rather put up with any short term disruption and any possible downers in our economy because the longer term economic view looks a lot brighter than staying in the EU.

Given your track record, you don't make the best decisions..

Voting for stupidity is not patriotic ...it is just stupid..


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #627 on: November 30, 2018, 12:27:28 AM »
Given your track record, you don't make the best decisions..

Voting for stupidity is not patriotic ...it is just stupid..

I never voted for Brexit out of patriotism, patriotism has never interested me, but being free to self-determine our will through our own country's parliament does. Including concern over who is being let into our country, it's impact socially not just economically and having some say over how our taxes are spent.

The EU takes much of our freedom to act independently away from us. That is a big negative in not being able to directly taylor our governing to our country.

Brexit offers great opportunity for this country to really get on and progress on from the overriding incompetance of the EU. It's a case of being better of from not having some organisation such as the EU controlling us.

Like it or not No Deal Brexit is fast becoming the default only remaining viable option now that the EU deal looks set to get voted down due once again to EU incompetance.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #628 on: November 30, 2018, 11:24:45 PM »
I never voted for Brexit out of patriotism, patriotism has never interested me, but being free to self-determine our will through our own country's parliament does. Including concern over who is being let into our country, it's impact socially not just economically and having some say over how our taxes are spent.

..and this has been THE biggest con of Brexit 'supporters' ..

As long as we have the 100 year old Common Travel Agreement with the Republic of Irreland - the two are incompatible as they are EU citizens - will remain so and are only IN Schegen 'coz the UK won't join   

'We' rely on the Irish to control our borders, too .... DUH ...




The EU takes much of our freedom to act independently away from us. That is a big negative in not being able to directly taylor our governing to our country.

 :wallbash:

1/ Are we in Schengen? NO

2/ Have we signed up to Directives on taking refugees ?  NO

3/ Did Cameron secure a great deal to ensure no benefits for EU citizens - YES

4/ Can we refuse EU citizens entry and deport them ?  - YES ( if they have committed crimes and / or are wanted in the EU or are considered a risk or public health


Brexit offers great opportunity for this country to really get on and progress on from the overriding incompetance of the EU. It's a case of being better of from not having some organisation such as the EU controlling us.

No - it's costing us approx 500 million / week in lost govt revenues and all the millions needed to emply extra civil servants and IT systems to become 'isolated' - even though we can actually BE isolated as Ireland is and must be an open border to the EU

'Good luck' with dealing with that issue  - if we 'crash out without a deal ;)

 
Like it or not No Deal Brexit is fast becoming the default only remaining viable option now that the EU deal looks set to get voted down due once again to EU incompetance.

1/ I don't like it

2/ it won't happen

It would be really GREAT if you could read up on stuff before posting daft

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #629 on: December 01, 2018, 04:14:46 AM »
As if it couldn't get any worse ..

ANOTHER govt minister resigns calling for a 2nd referendum

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46407249

Liked this article which proves how Mrs May just cannot get her plan approved

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46386172



Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #630 on: December 01, 2018, 05:56:09 AM »
As if it couldn't get any worse ..

ANOTHER govt minister resigns calling for a 2nd referendum

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46407249

Liked this article which proves how Mrs May just cannot get her plan approved

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46386172


What I like about the gov minister resigning is that it highlights that it's a bad idea being tied to the EU, they will always try and take the whip hand and treat us as inferior. That's not a good relationship to be subject to that sort of attitude that they have taken over the Galileo project. It has just proven the EU deal given to May is a bad deal and that we would be better off not getting into an entanglement with them and go for 'No Deal' Brexit.

I saw the article on the different Tory Brexiteer factions too and thought of posting it here but time became pressing. It's a good article, the important point is though that all Brexiteer factions will unite to oppose the EU bill. After that they will pretty much all get sucked into supporting a 'No Deal' Brexit, even those that want a Norway, EFTA, etc or whatever agreement. It will be the closest to what they are pushing for and on general Brexit. The fighting over what if any agreement other than World Trade Arrangements will be made after Brexit. There simply won't be the time nor inclination to deal with it before Brexit. My stake is now on the EU deal being voted down and a default to No Deal Brexit :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #631 on: December 01, 2018, 06:42:52 AM »
What I like about the gov minister resigning is that it highlights that it's a bad idea being tied to the EU

IDIOT, the guy resigned because of the flawed plan meaning 'we' cannot be involved in Galleleo project..



Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #632 on: December 01, 2018, 04:06:50 PM »
IDIOT, the guy resigned because of the flawed plan meaning 'we' cannot be involved in Galleleo project..

Exactly, the plan is flawed because the EU messed it up over the clause holding the UK in a customs union under the backstop requiring the EU agreement to release the UK - preposterous!

The fact that they are now viewing the UK as junior and acting in an aloof and non co-operative manner just highlights that an agreement that binds us in any way to the EU other than an easy out straight forward trade deal is not what we should agree to. Better to have a no deal Brexit and be free from the condescending attitude of the EU and act entirely independently.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #633 on: December 01, 2018, 11:53:44 PM »
Exactly, the plan is flawed because the EU messed it up

No... try to READ ..

The EU won't let the UK stay in Galileo if we leave ... CRAP negotiating on the part of the UK and yet another reason of the folly of leaving

Kiss good bye to 1000's of well paid jobs

Offline BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #634 on: December 02, 2018, 12:04:41 AM »
Kiss good bye to 1000's of well paid jobs


Who's going to take those jobs? Chances are the UK will last a lot longer than the EU, especially when other nations are entertaining the thought of leaving. Does the UK need the EU to hold their hand to survive? America does quite well without the EU.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #635 on: December 02, 2018, 02:13:59 AM »
Does one pity or mock someone who just keeps posting STUPID about stuff they are clueless about ?

Who's going to take those jobs? Chances are the UK will last a lot longer than the EU, especially when other nations are entertaining the thought of leaving. Does the UK need the EU to hold their hand to survive? America does quite well without the EU.

If they can't work on Galileo please tell us what these bright folks will do ?

Answer

Leave the UK


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #636 on: December 02, 2018, 06:58:19 AM »
No... try to READ ..

The EU won't let the UK stay in Galileo if we leave ... CRAP negotiating on the part of the UK and yet another reason of the folly of leaving

Kiss good bye to 1000's of well paid jobs

None of those well paid jobs will be mine since I don't have one so nothing to worry about for me  :D

Well this is what I read seems perfectly clear to me:

"A minister has resigned saying a row over involvement in the EU's Galileo satellite-navigation system shows the UK will be "hammered" in negotiations over a Brexit deal.

Science and universities minister Sam Gyimah quit after Mrs May said the UK was pulling out of Galileo.

The UK wanted to stay part of it but the EU said it would be banned from extra-secure elements of the project.

Mr Gyimah said it was a foretaste of the "brutal negotiations" to come."

To me this is clearly saying that under thd present deal proposal, i.e the EU/Chequers Deal the EU still won't allow the UK full access to the Galileo project. Hence even if this deal was agreed to (which it won't) the EU will pick and cgoose and take issue with us and treat us as in an inferior way.

Still won't matter. Once we leave the EU will be so hard pressed financially they won't be able to afford to continue these projects anyway.

Meanwhile the Rep of Ireland will be banging at our door wanting out of the EU and a reunification deal with the UK to avoid a collapsing economy. In which case welcome back to the UK Mobe! :welcome:

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #637 on: December 02, 2018, 09:09:49 AM »
Trench - don't you understand that with every post you just come across as more STUPID ?

...and you ain't even funny

Economics 101

Less well paid jobs - less tax paid

Carry on


Offline BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #638 on: December 02, 2018, 10:50:06 AM »
Does one pity or mock someone who just keeps posting STUPID about stuff they are clueless about ?

If they can't work on Galileo please tell us what these bright folks will do ?

Answer

Leave the UK

If EU fails to exist in the near future, Galileo going to leave Europe? America doesn't need a bunch of bureaucrat from a higher order telling us how to be successful. Figure it out.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #639 on: December 02, 2018, 11:10:16 AM »
If EU fails to exist in the near future, Galileo going to leave Europe? America doesn't need a bunch of bureaucrat from a higher order telling us how to be successful. Figure it out.

Trench and Silly BillyB are BOTH fully paid up members of the "I'm SO stupid, I don't even know when I busted", club ...

WHAT has the USA got to do with an EU funded 'GPS' alternative to GPS / Glonass ?

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #640 on: December 02, 2018, 11:52:19 AM »
Trench - don't you understand that with every post you just come across as more STUPID ?

...and you ain't even funny

Economics 101

Less well paid jobs - less tax paid

Carry on

We're talking about a handful of well paid jobs here and there. There will likely be a short term decline I tax receipts BUT gains made in other areas as a result of leaving the EU will far outweigh this. Take the many millions we pay into the EU each year in surplus of what we get out - a BIG saving there to be had. Other well paid jobs will come over time to replace those lost.

The big point is this Mobers, leaving the EU opens up massive opportunities for the UK. Opportunities that being a member of the EU has hindered. The US is a huge market that we are natural trading partners for. Think of the deals that could be created there. We will free ourselves of the massive debt burden the EU is building up for all its member nations. We will also no longer be tied (we hope) to awkward EU agreements and their incompetance in dealing with problems.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #641 on: December 02, 2018, 12:47:33 PM »
We're talking about a handful of well paid jobs here and there.


NO 'we're' not ..Galileo is but one example ... 

Think the City of London Euro-trading and plenty of other banking / finance systems we'll lose access to


There will likely be a short term decline I tax receipts

There IS a black hole in govt receipts costing us 500 million GBP /week - remember that BS about 'saving' 350 million week from 'leave' ?... ( that took NO account of our rebate )

BUT gains made in other areas as a result of leaving the EU will far outweigh this.

Why did I know you'd try THAT one ?   We are having to PAY our commitment to the EU to leave and we'll get NOTHING for it ...

Other well paid jobs will come over time to replace those lost

In what industry ?


The big point is this Mobers, leaving the EU opens up massive opportunities for the UK.

No ...it closes FAR more doors than it opens ...  I keep giving you examples of how UK entrepreneurs are setting up businesses in the far east - taking advantage of free trade deals with .... the EU ....  these are guys who campaigned for us to leave and then invest elsewhere !

Opportunities that being a member of the EU has hindered. The US is a huge market that we are natural trading partners for. Think of the deals that could be created there. We will free ourselves of the massive debt burden the EU is building up for all its member nations. We will also no longer be tied (we hope) to awkward EU agreements and their incompetance in dealing with problems.

The US market is not nearly as big as  the EU

Offline BillyB

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #642 on: December 02, 2018, 01:04:34 PM »
We're talking about a handful of well paid jobs here and there. There will likely be a short term decline I tax receipts BUT gains made in other areas as a result of leaving the EU will far outweigh this. Take the many millions we pay into the EU each year in surplus of what we get out - a BIG saving there to be had. Other well paid jobs will come over time to replace those lost.


America has tons of well paying jobs without having to handsomely pay a bunch of bureaucrats outside the country to provide them for us.

The sky may be falling for the EU with the UK leaving but the sky is not falling for the UK. The UK lived most of it's life just fine before the EU and can live the rest of it's life just fine without the EU.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #643 on: December 02, 2018, 04:32:30 PM »

NO 'we're' not ..Galileo is but one example ... 

Think the City of London Euro-trading and plenty of other banking / finance systems we'll lose access to


There IS a black hole in govt receipts costing us 500 million GBP /week - remember that BS about 'saving' 350 million week from 'leave' ?... ( that took NO account of our rebate )

Why did I know you'd try THAT one ?   We are having to PAY our commitment to the EU to leave and we'll get NOTHING for it ...

In what industry ?


No ...it closes FAR more doors than it opens ...  I keep giving you examples of how UK entrepreneurs are setting up businesses in the far east - taking advantage of free trade deals with .... the EU ....  these are guys who campaigned for us to leave and then invest elsewhere !

The US market is not nearly as big as  the EU

We won't be paying the 39bn if we leave under a 'No Deal' that was only agreed if everything was agreed which in the vote next Tuesday it won't be :)

We can argue for ever more if the UK will be better or worse off on leaving the EU. That will all come to pass soon enough. I will be happy to get back control of our borders once again and actually control immigration.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #644 on: December 02, 2018, 11:00:32 PM »
America has tons of well paying jobs without having to handsomely pay a bunch of bureaucrats outside the country to provide them for us.

More STUPID from Silly BillyB

The UK will be paying much MORE in civil servants salaries and IT systems to cope with 'controlling' the flow of goods and people in and out and  :wallbash:

The sky may be falling for the EU with the UK leaving but the sky is not falling for the UK.

The sky has already fallen in as we were the fastest economy recovering from the 2007/8 crashes and now we have a black holes in public accounts and increased govt borrowing and a SLOW down in retail and car sales - with massive jobs layoffs

The UK lived most of it's life just fine before the EU and can live the rest of it's life just fine without the EU.

As if having read the above wouldn't be a clue for most people with a reasoning brain, I wonder if Silly BillyB has ever looked on a map ? 

The UK is currently a member of THE biggest free trade club and EU citizens are LEAVING the UK even though they don't  HAVE to leave

There are vacancies unfilled because the likes of Trenchies don't want to do the jobs they were willing to do and well

'Scoundrels' like the  Trenchies and BillyB's of this world choose to ignore the FACTS that get in the way of their 'national pride'   


Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #645 on: December 04, 2018, 09:54:07 PM »
Well, WHAT a day in Parliament, yesterday .. the govt got  SEVERE writ-slap  - re not revealing the full legal advice on the PM's deal

Nigel Farage - the IDIOT who is more responsible for this mess than most - left the UKIP party - as he doesn't recognise it .. it is now on the loony fringe of far right politics  AND the EU reveal that the UK can still stop article 50 - the process of leaving ..

links on all this and the crashing GBP here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694


The UK is a rudderless ship and a farce and those responsible are abandoning it

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #646 on: December 05, 2018, 02:43:11 PM »
Well, WHAT a day in Parliament, yesterday .. the govt got  SEVERE writ-slap  - re not revealing the full legal advice on the PM's deal

Nigel Farage - the IDIOT who is more responsible for this mess than most - left the UKIP party - as he doesn't recognise it .. it is now on the loony fringe of far right politics  AND the EU reveal that the UK can still stop article 50 - the process of leaving ..

links on all this and the crashing GBP here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46446694


The UK is a rudderless ship and a farce and those responsible are abandoning it

Well it showed the gov can be defeated and it looks like it will be when it comes to a vote on the deal.

The legal advice is now out and essentially backs  the Brexiteers & DUP view that the EU hold over the UK on the backstop is not a good position at all. That and border trade issues may be cause negotiations to go on for years over all the ins & outs of it all.

Meanwhile there was a vote on Parliament having more say if the deal gets voted down. However, while there are enough MP's to come together on that there are no enough to decide on which way to proceed. So having more say is fine, the default though still remains 'No Deal' :D In a parliament in which so many groups exist with different ideas on how to proceed and none of them able to command enough MP votes to push through their groups way of proceeding, 'No Deal' is the Winning default scenario  :thumbsup:

The Pound of course is going down as the money men have already worked it through to this scenario already. It is but a temporary situation, once we have left the EU and life continues much the same it will recover to pre referendum levels.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 02:46:24 PM by Trenchcoat »

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #647 on: December 05, 2018, 11:33:34 PM »
Well it showed the gov can be defeated and it looks like it will be when it comes to a vote on the deal.

The legal advice is now out and essentially backs  the Brexiteers & DUP view that the EU hold over the UK on the backstop is not a good position at all. That and border trade issues may be cause negotiations to go on for years over all the ins & outs of it all.

Ahem

...and WHO has been pointing out that this  VERY point would ensure a hard  'Brexit' won't happen - given the Good Friday Agreement and nearly  100 year old common Travel Agreement ?

One didn't need an team of expensive legal eagles to tell us this

Our nation is wasting billions on a wet dream that will leave us weaker and a laughing stock  - as other are making hay why 'we' shoot ourselves in the foot, over and over.


Meanwhile there was a vote on Parliament having more say if the deal gets voted down. However, while there are enough MP's to come together on that there are no enough to decide on which way to proceed. So having more say is fine, the default though still remains 'No Deal' :D In a parliament in which so many groups exist with different ideas on how to proceed and none of them able to command enough MP votes to push through their groups way of proceeding, 'No Deal' is the Winning default scenario  :thumbsup:

Another Trench, total misread of the situation ... mark my words - 'we' will NOT be crashing out without a deal ..

The Pound of course is going down as the money men have already worked it through to this scenario already. It is but a temporary situation, once we have left the EU and life continues much the same it will recover to pre referendum levels.

))

It has been 'temporary' since the GBP fell when the markets realised that 'we' might actually be daft enough to vote 'leave' ...

Time to stop making silly excuses


Until Mrs May wakes up and realises that the PEOPLE should be allowed to decide .. and you KNOW what that will mean - now 'we' all know better ... 'our' nation will continue on it's rudderless course.





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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #648 on: December 06, 2018, 07:39:55 AM »
Call it 600 Bn GBP trade with EU x EUR 0.20 which is the approx difference between exchange around pre brexit 1.35 EUR / GBP and current 1.12-1.15 we're talking over 100 Billion difference, each year, very loosely calculated.  Also accounts for a part of ever rising trade deficits with EU.  I expect GBP will fall even further, reaching parity or maybe even less with EUR.

The deficit in goods shows that the UK can't produce and beat EU prices in general.  With Brexit, hard or soft, already expensive UK will get even more-so.

I doubt those that voted Brexit were really aware how much it would cost is already costing them.  Add the cost of im-pex administration, compliance etc and a hard Brexit and the bill adds up pretty darn quick. And that's not counting business moving out to EU, at least partially and paying taxes elsewhere.  Quite interesting to think if the problem was immigrants, what has and will be lost in monetary terms could have housed 'em, trained 'em and put them on a payroll as productive, tax paying residents.  But hey.. that's the price for doing everything just to go nowhere in the end.  It'll be worth a couple extra at the pub come March to relish the moment but reality will hit shortly afterwards like a YUGE hangover.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #649 on: December 07, 2018, 07:54:43 PM »
Call it 600 Bn GBP trade with EU x EUR 0.20 which is the approx difference between exchange around pre brexit 1.35 EUR / GBP and current 1.12-1.15 we're talking over 100 Billion difference, each year, very loosely calculated.  Also accounts for a part of ever rising trade deficits with EU.  I expect GBP will fall even further, reaching parity or maybe even less with EUR.

The deficit in goods shows that the UK can't produce and beat EU prices in general.  With Brexit, hard or soft, already expensive UK will get even more-so.

I doubt those that voted Brexit were really aware how much it would cost is already costing them.  Add the cost of im-pex administration, compliance etc and a hard Brexit and the bill adds up pretty darn quick. And that's not counting business moving out to EU, at least partially and paying taxes elsewhere.  Quite interesting to think if the problem was immigrants, what has and will be lost in monetary terms could have housed 'em, trained 'em and put them on a payroll as productive, tax paying residents.  But hey.. that's the price for doing everything just to go nowhere in the end.  It'll be worth a couple extra at the pub come March to relish the moment but reality will hit shortly afterwards like a YUGE hangover.

It will be better, tariffs can benefit a country like the UK by leveling thd playing field and making it feasible to produce goods at home for the home market. That makes us more productive which means the gov brings in more tax revenue plus tariff revenue - it can pay down its debt. More jobs at home are created as a result rather than those jobs being abroad then shipping the goods in. People have been taught to be very anti tariff/free trade but not all countries benefit from that, some are better off with tariffs.

Take Trump for example, now like him or loathe him he is a businessman with decades of experience. He is pro-tariff for a reason - he sees that the US like the UK doesn't benefit that well under Free Trade. The effect in thd US is much thd same as the UK, cheap imports are bought, stopping goods & hence jobs being produced at home. If more jobs are created at home through protectionist tariffs then wages rise to pay for potentially slightly more expensive goods.

 

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