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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 101953 times)

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Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #675 on: December 12, 2018, 10:55:20 PM »
It's not that simple Jay to 'go vote again'

Yes it is !
Hopefully people may have some idea what they are actually voting for next time !


People had zero idea of the mechanics and consequences of leaving -- and it is totally dishonest  for anyone to say otherwise.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #676 on: December 12, 2018, 11:08:48 PM »
Well we both agree that May's deal can't get the votes it needs, I'm happy enough with that :)

However she DOES have the votes needed to survive a no confidence vote.

?

Do you think that the 'brextremits' will vote FOR her ?  They'd rather take the chance of a new leader and beating Corbyn on the basis he is really a Europhobe and his grass routes aren't in step

They only have to abstain and she'll lose...the DUP might even abstain / vote against - if she pushes her 'compromise plan'

Really, is there ANYTHING you understand ? ;)
No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #677 on: December 13, 2018, 12:16:33 AM »
?

Do you think that the 'brextremits' will vote FOR her ?  They'd rather take the chance of a new leader and beating Corbyn on the basis he is really a Europhobe and his grass routes aren't in step

They only have to abstain and she'll lose...the DUP might even abstain / vote against - if she pushes her 'compromise plan'

Really, is there ANYTHING you understand ? ;)

That's crazy, the Brexiteers in the Tory party are not going to vote against their own party in a vote of no confidence. They are in a supremely placed position of being needed by May to get her deal through parliament. They can simply vote down her deal each time. No need to vote themselves out of office, lol. They know all opposition parties will vote against the deal each time also. The DUP understand the same but clearly you do not! Lol.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 12:43:02 AM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #678 on: December 13, 2018, 12:46:32 AM »
Yes it is !
Hopefully people may have some idea what they are actually voting for next time !


People had zero idea of the mechanics and consequences of leaving -- and it is totally dishonest  for anyone to say otherwise.

They knew what they were voting for first time around. We had to put up with months of debate and drivel on it all. Anyone that doesn't follow after all of that is quite frankly too slow to be worthy of casting a vote. It's just the Remoaners trying to get another angle for another referendum and a Remain vote.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #679 on: December 13, 2018, 01:21:54 AM »
They knew what they were voting for first time around.

No --if anyone knew -- where have they been in trying to execute?

Most of those involved promoting Brexit abdicated any responsibilty and left it to others to try and implement. :cluebat:
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #680 on: December 13, 2018, 01:56:17 AM »
No --if anyone knew -- where have they been in trying to execute?

Most of those involved promoting Brexit abdicated any responsibilty and left it to others to try and implement. :cluebat:

Jay let me educate you, an outsider on UK politics ;D There was a clear win for Leave in the referendum. However, it was found by the UK supreme Court that parliament would still have to legislate it through, etc. I think this was wrong and unconstitutional/undemocratic the referendum was passed as a bill through parliament so should have stood as is without need for parliament to have any say on it - that is what got us in the present mess we are in Court Judges being too high & mighty and coming to a wrong undemocratic decision.

Anyway Parliament has a different make up to the referendum result which again is why it should have been decided solely by one or the other. The way we elect MP's and the way a referendum result get decided are totally different. The referendum result reflects thd whole country whereas MP's have to win first past thd post in their own constituencies  (regions). Simply put the referendum result was not reflective of the position of most MP's. Most MP's are/were pro EU, dome don't care that much and some will follow what their constituents want. Most though follow what they want and not the referendum result - that is where the problem comes in.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline JayH

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #681 on: December 13, 2018, 02:39:37 AM »
Let me say it in the simplest terms for you --

the vote was an idea  --not a plan.

Catch phrases are fine when they are a header for politicking-- a header for actual implementable policy --  in this case it was only a header-with no meat and potatoes  below it.

The vote was taken without wide understanding -- and the fact is that all you Brexiteers  know that another vote will fail --for the simple reason that people are now better informed !

Government is not a simple thing -- and those that attempt to sell it that way do the constituents a disservice.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 02:42:37 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #682 on: December 13, 2018, 04:01:37 AM »
They knew what they were voting for first time around.

Yup - 'saving money' ? :)))   'We've' blown FAR more than 'we're' supposed to have saved ...

We had to put up with months of debate and drivel on it all. Anyone that doesn't follow after all of that is quite frankly too slow to be worthy of casting a vote. It's just the Remoaners trying to get another angle for another referendum and a Remain vote.

..and yet, now folks see the reality of the lies - the problems 'brexit' will cause  - our TC is scared of the result....

Remember, it was the 'slow' people - less intelligent - less qualified that voted to leave ;)
No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #683 on: December 13, 2018, 04:01:27 PM »
Let me say it in the simplest terms for you --

the vote was an idea  --not a plan.

Catch phrases are fine when they are a header for politicking-- a header for actual implementable policy --  in this case it was only a header-with no meat and potatoes  below it.

The vote was taken without wide understanding -- and the fact is that all you Brexiteers  know that another vote will fail --for the simple reason that people are now better informed !

Government is not a simple thing -- and those that attempt to sell it that way do the constituents a disservice.

The vote was a vote - as simple as that Jay.

It was made clear by Cameron what was at stake and how serious it was.

The fact is that Remoaners take to a childish belittling of the first referendum and all that voted Leave. Then call for a non sensical second referendum where they are clueless as what should be on the ballot.

Theresa May can see this so thankfully has repeatedly said that 'there will be no second referendum'. That leaves her with two choices when her deal fails to get through Parliament. Either take the country to No Deal or step down as PM. When her deal fails she may look at it that her plan has failed and she doesn't intend to stay on as PM to another election so may choose to step down. By the time of choosing a new leader we are probably talking Jan or Feb so likely a No Deal Brexiteer like Boris Johnson will be chosen to take us through that in March.

In fact that is a very likely scenario, she can step down gracefully instead of looking like she was forced out and not have to do loads of work when her days in office are limited. Hence why having annouced that she will not go into another General Election as PM she is now a lame duck PM. Could even be a matter of days if not weeks.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #684 on: December 13, 2018, 04:20:08 PM »
Yup - 'saving money' ? :)))   'We've' blown FAR more than 'we're' supposed to have saved ...

..and yet, now folks see the reality of the lies - the problems 'brexit' will cause  - our TC is scared of the result....

Remember, it was the 'slow' people - less intelligent - less qualified that voted to leave ;)

Mobe, if we raise tariffs on the EU as a result of a 'NO DEAL' under WTA terms we will be better off. We currently have a huge balance of payments deficit with the EU - That's loads of money flowing OUT of our economy each year. That means there is less money around to share our to pay wages and a large part of why wages for the UK have been falling consistently since the seventies.

If we raise tariffs we stem the flow of money flowing out of our economy. More of that can be produced here and we will have more jobs as a result. All of that amounts to better paid jobs, a better performing economy and better government finances. All good I would say :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #685 on: December 13, 2018, 11:40:34 PM »
Mobe, if we raise tariffs on the EU as a result of a 'NO DEAL' under WTA terms we will be better off.

:)))

At a time when Singapore and FAR more important - Japan  -have just done a deal with the EU for tariff free / much reduced tariffs ? !

Must you keep proving what an economic numpty you are ?  IF we 'no deal' - we'll be paying duty and we import more than we export - DUH   



We currently have a huge balance of payments deficit with the EU - That's loads of money flowing OUT of our economy each year. That means there is less money around to share our to pay wages and a large part of why wages for the UK have been falling consistently since the seventies.

That figure will go UP as the cars we assemble will be made elsewhere due to the problems of importing / exporting parts

If we raise tariffs we stem the flow of money flowing out of our economy. More of that can be produced here and we will have more jobs as a result. All of that amounts to better paid jobs, a better performing economy and better government finances. All good I would say :)

Honestly, I have never read more 'clueless'

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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #686 on: December 15, 2018, 12:53:41 PM »
:)))

At a time when Singapore and FAR more important - Japan  -have just done a deal with the EU for tariff free / much reduced tariffs ? !

Must you keep proving what an economic numpty you are ?  IF we 'no deal' - we'll be paying duty and we import more than we export - DUH   



That figure will go UP as the cars we assemble will be made elsewhere due to the problems of importing / exporting parts

Honestly, I have never read more 'clueless'

Mobe, if you really have moved your business operation to Rep of Ireland it's looking pretty had for you. The clock is ticking and Theresa May is convieniently using up plenty of time on it :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46577359

It's gonna be a 'No Deal' hard Brexit as there will be no time to do anything else. Even the legislation for another referendum won't get through in time :D The Chequers Deal and any time extention will be voted down by the Brexiteers in Parliament. When tariffs get raised on the Irish border Mobe the Rep of Ireland is quickly going to resemble Palestine - an area staved of economic activity. When this happens Mobe make your way to the NI border, I will be there to vouch for you to allow your safe crossing ;D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #687 on: December 15, 2018, 02:29:40 PM »
Mobe, if you really have moved your business operation to Rep of Ireland it's looking pretty had for you. The clock is ticking and Theresa May is convieniently using up plenty of time on it :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46577359

It is amazing how you take a piece of news from a 'remainer' - the brother of Boris - who's family: Bro, sis and Father are all remain- and 'forget' it's thrust ..

The article makes it clear that Mrs May will not be allowed to run down the clock ..

"Having defined her premiership as a mission to implement the 2016 referendum result, the real threat to her legacy is not Britain crashing out without a deal but, as she increasingly puts it, ďno Brexit at allĒ.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/13/may-eu-second-referendum-brexit





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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #688 on: December 15, 2018, 03:01:31 PM »
It is amazing how you take a piece of news from a 'remainer' - the brother of Boris - who's family: Bro, sis and Father are all remain- and 'forget' it's thrust ..

The article makes it clear that Mrs May will not be allowed to run down the clock ..

"Having defined her premiership as a mission to implement the 2016 referendum result, the real threat to her legacy is not Britain crashing out without a deal but, as she increasingly puts it, ďno Brexit at allĒ.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/13/may-eu-second-referendum-brexit

Mobe, no one can stop her from running down the clock, particularly now that see can't be replaced until well after 31st March 2019 unless she chose to step down voluntarily. You see Mobers a 'No Deal' Brexit is all but assured :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #689 on: December 15, 2018, 08:51:14 PM »
Mobe, no one can stop her from running down the clock, particularly now that see can't be replaced until well after 31st March 2019 unless she chose to step down voluntarily. You see Mobers a 'No Deal' Brexit is all but assured :)

DUH,

A vote of no confidence can stop her ...



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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #690 on: December 16, 2018, 02:26:15 AM »
DUH,

A vote of no confidence can stop her ...

A vote in which the DUP so far has said it will support her, so where are the opposition supposed to find the votes to win such a vote Mobers?

The Tories & DUP MP's are not likely to vote against her as they are 'the government', they would put their seats at risk and any say in what happens. You see Mobers every way you Remoaners are stumped ;)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #691 on: December 16, 2018, 02:41:56 AM »
A vote in which the DUP so far has said it will support her, so where are the opposition supposed to find the votes to win such a vote Mobers?

The Tories & DUP MP's are not likely to vote against her as they are 'the government', they would put their seats at risk and any say in what happens. You see Mobers every way you Remoaners are stumped ;)

You just ain't paying attention. TC..

EVEN if the DUP support her - she'll lose..



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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #692 on: December 16, 2018, 04:00:07 AM »
You just ain't paying attention. TC..

EVEN if the DUP support her - she'll lose..

So tell me then Mobers who WILL vote against her. What you are saying only leaves Tory Remoaners. Now a few of them might vote against her perhaps half a dozen but it's unlikely to be enough. Most value holding onto their seats too much and actually being in government to risk voting against their own government. They are after all Tory MP's and tend to vote with their party. That and time is running out for any General Election before 31st March that will have time to change much anyway. To be honest I doubt JC will call one anyway since he is not emphatically in favour of the EU and probably doesn't want the issue on his plate as he would then have the problem of what to do.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #693 on: December 16, 2018, 04:19:31 AM »
So tell me then Mobers who WILL vote against her.

The brextremeists with the Tories are more enough
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #694 on: December 16, 2018, 04:31:35 AM »
The brextremeists with the Tories are more enough

You're joking man, lol. That would be one hell of a bet to put on at the bookies :cluebat:

The Brextremists as you call them have most to lose by doing that. At the moment they are faced with the happy proposition of Theresa May and her Chequers/EU deal that is going nowhere - the EU won't budge and they can happily vote it down anytime since the opposition parties have all emphatically come out against voting for it.

The Brextremists just have to sit it out watching Mrs May bang her head against the wall while the clock times out. The only way they are likely to lose now is by doing something.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #695 on: December 16, 2018, 04:36:42 AM »
DUH, duh and double DUH

The clock will not run down  - Mrs May will do 'her deal' before that ;)

STILL think they won't vote against ?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/failed-by-both-major-parties-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss?

« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 05:11:29 AM by msmob »
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Offline John Gaunt

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #696 on: December 16, 2018, 05:17:37 AM »
DUH, duh and double DUH

The clock will not run down  - Mrs May will do 'her deal' before that ;)

STILL think they won't vote against ?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/failed-by-both-major-parties-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss?
Moby swears he isnít a Guardian reader but here he is promoting that same red rag.......

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #697 on: December 16, 2018, 05:33:52 AM »
Moby swears he isnít a Guardian reader but here he is promoting that same red rag.......

I read a wide spectrum of opinion...you should try it - you might learn something

You know v.well that as an Ulsterman, I'd hardly be trusting Labour on Ireland - least of all Corbyn ... do TRY to keep up and stop demonstrating your political ineptness / short attention span

Now, care yo tell us where / why you disagree with the link ?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 08:03:42 AM by msmob »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #698 on: December 16, 2018, 05:42:39 AM »
DUH, duh and double DUH

The clock will not run down  - Mrs May will do 'her deal' before that ;)

STILL think they won't vote against ?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/failed-by-both-major-parties-betrayed-britain-lurches-towards-the-abyss?

Skim read but the article doesn't seem to say they will vote against her in a vote of no confidence just vote against her Chequers/EU deal.

I don't see her getting her deal through. She would need a substantial number of Labour MP's to do that and I don't think they'll be swayed by time pressure. They are still the opposition after all and AND against key components of her deal even the Remain Labour MP's.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 07:59:19 AM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline John Gaunt

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #699 on: December 16, 2018, 06:27:09 AM »
I read a wide spectrum of opinion...you should try it - you might learn something
Sadly, your spectral learning hasnít taught you much seeing how pig headed you are.
Quote
You know v,well that as an Ulsterman, I'd hardly be trusting Labour on Ireland - least of all Corbyn ... do TRY to keep up and stop demonstrating your political ineptness / short attention span
So you keep saying yet you constantly demonstrate how extremely to the left your views are. So much so that Iím going to call you MomentumMoby.
Quote
Now, care yo tell us where / why you disagree with the link ?

Whatís there to agree?

 

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