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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 76405 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #800 on: January 09, 2019, 11:29:11 AM »
That was THEN

2.5 years on and - if you are honest - you KNOW that if there's a peoples vote and the last six months polls are reflected  -we'll be staying

Mobe, we had no other choice than to wait the two years as under Article 50 so the original democratic mandate to leave still needs to be affected to honour that vote.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #801 on: January 09, 2019, 12:02:58 PM »
Moby,

          Despite your assertions that the majority of Brits now want to remain in the EU..the majority of British members on here and the other forum were and still are Brexiteers...strange that 'innit ?


Polls are meaningless cobblers as shown by the result of the EU referendum and Trump becoming USA President.

As for Brexit itself I have a feeling the self-serving MP's of the UK will find a way to block it...going against the wishes of their constituents.

It will be interesting to see the ramifications for those MP's and their seats...and I can see a new pro-leave  party rising which will gain all those disenchanted votes and seats.


There's a storm coming...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 12:21:40 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Online msmob

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« Reply #802 on: January 09, 2019, 12:23:51 PM »
Moby,

          Despite your assertions that the majority of Brits now want to remain in the EU..the majority of British members on here and the other forum were and still are Brexiteers...strange that 'innit ?

Very strange - given they wish to  / have  'import(ed)' a non-EU national - if you think about it .....

Still, what#s really strange is all of you running scared of my bet ...

As for Brexit itself I have a feeling the self-serving MP's of the UK will find a way to block it...going against the wishes of their constituents.

Again, what they wised THEN and NOW is very different in many cases....


It will be interesting to see the ramifications for those MP's and their seats...and I can see a new pro-leave  party rising which will gain all those disenchanted votes and seats.

In my constituency 'we' voted strongly REMAIN and in the general election the sitting Tory (REMAIN) was replaced - narrowly - by a LEAVE Labour candidate.... 

So, I'd not be too sure on THAT, either ..... 

IF we leave, *I* think a party that will fight to get us back in will form and win ... 

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #803 on: January 10, 2019, 06:49:35 AM »
IF we leave, *I* think a party that will fight to get us back in will form and win ...

Ah, I see our Mobers has finally seen the writing on the wall :cheesy:

Now about that bet! If we could just table an 'amendment' for you to get your ass slapped and post a vid on here of the whole event then that might pass :D :crackwhip:

Well I guess you'll be looking to the Labour party for any party that would likely push to rejoin. The Lib Dems are finished as a political force and to few Tories are likely to want to return to the days of a divided party and the return of UKIP. Only Labour has enough Remoan MP's for it to become a likelihood in their party.

Odds are once we are out and so long as there are no very bad long term results apparent then support for returning to the EU will drop away :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #804 on: January 10, 2019, 08:29:34 AM »
Ah, I see our Mobers has finally seen the writing on the wall

Given my bet offer- a REALLY daft comment

Now about that bet! If we could just table an 'amendment' for you to get your ass slapped and post a vid on here of the whole event then that might pass :D :crackwhip:

So, you are able to accept my wager ? ......

Well I guess you'll be looking to the Labour party for any party that would likely push to rejoin. The Lib Dems are finished as a political force and to few Tories are likely to want to return to the days of a divided party and the return of UKIP. Only Labour has enough Remoan MP's for it to become a likelihood in their party.

When it comes to thinking, you've never proven adept .... 

I do not trust Corbyn any more than May ...I DO trust the people to decide on the 'Brexit' issue - this time

Odds are once we are out and so long as there are no very bad long term results apparent then support for returning to the EU will drop away :)

So where's your acceptance of my bet ?

Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #805 on: January 11, 2019, 01:09:03 PM »
Now even those who championed leaving the EU believe that the UK will stay. From the article:


Quote
Peter Hargreaves, the billionaire who was the second biggest donor to the 2016 leave campaign, and veteran hedge fund manager Crispin Odey told Reuters they expect Britain to stay in the EU despite their campaign victory in the 2016 referendum.

As a result, Odey, who runs hedge fund Odey Asset Management, said he is now positioning for the pound to strengthen after his flagship fund previously reaped the benefit of betting against UK assets amid wider market fears about the impact of Brexit.

The donors’ pessimism comes amid deadlock in Britain’s parliament over the exit deal that Prime Minister Theresa May has struck with the EU, which has cast significant uncertainty over how, or even if, Brexit will happen.

Hargreaves, who amassed his fortune from co-founding fund supermarket Hargreaves Lansdown (HRGV.L), said the political establishment were determined to scuttle Brexit and this would lead to a generation of distrust of Britain’s political classes.

The government, he said, is likely to first ask for an extension to the formal exit process from the EU and then call for a second referendum.

“I have totally given up. I am totally in despair, I don’t think Brexit will happen at all,” said Hargreaves, 72, who is one of Britain’s wealthiest men and donated 3.2 million pounds ($4 million) to the leave campaign. “They (pro-Europeans) are banking on the fact that people are so fed up with it that they will just say ‘sod it we will stay’. I do see that attitude. The problem is when something doesn’t happen for so long you feel less angry about it.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-donors-exclusive/exclusive-leading-brexit-donors-say-britain-will-reverse-decision-to-leave-eu-idUSKCN1P50UU

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #806 on: January 11, 2019, 07:24:20 PM »
Now even those who championed leaving the EU believe that the UK will stay. From the article:


http://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-donors-exclusive/exclusive-leading-brexit-donors-say-britain-will-reverse-decision-to-leave-eu-idUSKCN1P50UU

Can't see it. It would mean Theresa May backtracking on EVERYTHING she has said. I don't think she is the type to do that. She may backtrack on one thing a little if push came to shove like the set back of the date on the vote on the EU deal but I don't think she'll move the date of leaving the EU and agree to a second referendum. That would be too big a blow to her creditability, morals & ethics. In addition Brexiteers in her party would be outraged. Plus it would threaten to open up the whole division/UKIP situation again, not to mention the headaches involved of going down that route.

The one thing she HASN'T ruled out is a 'No Deal' Brexit. That undeniably honours/delivers on the referendum and is the quickest easiest way for her that is to hand. It's a far easier shuffle over for her whilst keeping her promises. Good money has already been spent preparing for No Deal Brexit so that indicates the way the gov will go I think. The Remainers in her party can do little. I think she'll just offer them a fig of doing what she can to get a good post Brexit deal with the EU. I myself am eager to see the EU Bill get voted down this Tuesday so matters can move onto a 'No Deal' Brexit :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #807 on: January 11, 2019, 10:16:48 PM »
Can't see it. ...


 I myself am eager to see the EU Bill get voted down this Tuesday so matters can move onto a 'No Deal' Brexit :)

...and yet you won't put your 'hopes' into accepting my wager ..that losing the vote will mean the opposite will be the outcome !?




Online John Gaunt

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« Reply #808 on: January 12, 2019, 01:14:42 AM »
...and yet you won't put your 'hopes' into accepting my wager ..that losing the vote will mean the opposite will be the outcome !?
Nobody’s interested in your poxy bets, not least because you can’t be trusted to divvy up.

Online msmob

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« Reply #809 on: January 12, 2019, 03:18:41 AM »
The ignore feature is working great !

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #810 on: January 13, 2019, 02:46:49 AM »
...and yet you won't put your 'hopes' into accepting my wager ..that losing the vote will mean the opposite will be the outcome !?

Well if you're so sure how about you accepting this counter offer of a bet seeing as sending money around would be a pain.

If I win and the Government move to 'No Deal' Brexit after the vote on the EU/Chequers Deal then you have to post up a pic on here of SC smacking your ass!

If on the other hand the Government move to a second referendum then you get bragging rights since I am still looking for a girl.

What do you say to that hey Mobe? Willing to accept IF you are so confident :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #811 on: January 13, 2019, 12:52:58 PM »
Trench,

No one is interested in my arse, but your continued obfuscation re accepting my bet ...yet posting utter bollox re what will be the outcome is SO you..and Mrs May

Lacking in substance and unable to deliver...

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #812 on: January 13, 2019, 01:18:02 PM »
Trench,

No one is interested in my arse, but your continued obfuscation re accepting my bet ...yet posting utter bollox re what will be the outcome is SO you..and Mrs May

Lacking in substance and unable to deliver...

Ah, put up or shut up is it Mobes, well if you won't accept my bet I guess it's time for you to shut up, Lol :D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #813 on: January 13, 2019, 03:59:52 PM »
Former UK PM John Major is saying that Article 50 should be revoked and the people should be given another chance on whether or not the UK leaves the EU by having a second referendum.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/brexit-john-major-says-revoking-002338495.html

Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #814 on: January 13, 2019, 11:11:12 PM »
More UK media calling for a 2nd referendum. Can a 2nd referendum be far off?

What would happen if a 2nd referendum were held the it was even more in favor of leaving?

http://uk.yahoo.com/news/uk-absolute-stop-article-50-102000716.html

Online msmob

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« Reply #815 on: January 14, 2019, 08:55:24 AM »
Then leave we would ..

I'm testing out some Eng language model software... the scary thing is DaveNY = sting123 ? ....

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #816 on: January 14, 2019, 03:06:33 PM »
Well, not long for the vote now, looks certain that the EU deal is set to be voted down, then onto a No Deal Brexit :D

Lucky our Mobe didn’t put he's arse on the line over it!
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #817 on: January 15, 2019, 12:44:37 AM »
Trench

Must you keep posting so daft ?

I think all but the most clueless poster has worked out that I've posted out that there'll be no 'hard brexit'  and why ..

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #818 on: January 15, 2019, 05:37:33 AM »
Trench

Must you keep posting so daft ?

I think all but the most clueless poster has worked out that I've posted out that there'll be no 'hard brexit'  and why ..

I think you'll find you're wrong Mobe, you think Theresa will want a never ending battle over the EU tearing her party apart, never mind a resurgence of UKIP. Easiest for her to put this one to bed once and for all and go for No Deal. It honours the referendum and finally satisfies the Brexiteers/Euroskeptics in her party who aren't going anywhere - so trotting off for any tie up with the EU through second referendum's etc would be pointless for her party long term. Worst that happens if she goes for No Deal is a few Tories, perhaps up to half a dozen reign thd Tory whip, even if two or three leave the party all together it's no big deal compared to the problens she would face on the Brexiteer side of the party. Plus she can say she had little choice, she tried for a deal already but no joy.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #819 on: January 15, 2019, 06:23:38 AM »
I think you'll find you're wrong Mobe

£50 says I'm right ... but ALL you do is tell us 'I'll be wrong' - but no conviction ...

Offline DaveNY

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« Reply #820 on: January 15, 2019, 12:58:09 PM »
UK PM Theresa May's Brexit deal has been rejected by the UK parliament 432 to 202, the worst defeat suffered by a UK Government. It seems that the deadline for the UK to exit the EU will have to be extended but to what end? More negotiations? May resigns? A snap election? A second referendum?


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/may-makes-final-case-for-brexit-deal-dont-let-the-people-down

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #821 on: January 15, 2019, 01:38:01 PM »
UK PM Theresa May's Brexit deal has been rejected by the UK parliament 432 to 202, the worst defeat suffered by a UK Government. It seems that the deadline for the UK to exit the EU will have to be extended but to what end? More negotiations? May resigns? A snap election? A second referendum?


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/14/may-makes-final-case-for-brexit-deal-dont-let-the-people-down

Yep, a whopping big defeat of 230 votes, far more than even the higher end of 200 some thought might happen. At this point with such a large scale of defeat it looks like Theresa knows it's dead in the water as a going concern.

She's held out a fig to the opposition of getting together on the issue. I don't think she'll go there its just to look decent. That path doesn't do nothing to solve the long term Euroskeptic division in her party. Just a question of when she'll come over to a No Deal Brexit :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline BC

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« Reply #822 on: January 15, 2019, 02:15:02 PM »
Dave,

No deal, new referendum or just forget about the whole Brexit think and stay in EU.

Even a new government won't get a better deal from EU.  A new government doesn't want a hard Brexit either.

The deal is gone, so what's the path of least resistance?

General election will give a bit of clarity what the folks in UK really want considering a 'deal' is no longer part of the game.  It would probably be just as indicative as a new referendum.

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« Reply #823 on: January 15, 2019, 02:22:00 PM »
http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/27d512b5-9b1d-43a4-80dd-371b0c5c1a5e

you can watch the final arguments at around the 18.24 mark.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 02:30:25 PM by BC »

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« Reply #824 on: January 15, 2019, 03:34:21 PM »
Dave,

No deal, new referendum or just forget about the whole Brexit think and stay in EU.

Even a new government won't get a better deal from EU.  A new government doesn't want a hard Brexit either.

The deal is gone, so what's the path of least resistance?

General election will give a bit of clarity what the folks in UK really want considering a 'deal' is no longer part of the game.  It would probably be just as indicative as a new referendum.

I have a sneaking suspicion that there will be an entire flip-flop of the government.   I think that the US is in for that in two years.  The days of populism and nationalism, in both countries, are numbered.  My favorite Sci Fi author, Robert Heinlein wrote, in a book called Double Star, that people can only accept so much change.   And then they need a respite.  But the changes remain and governments move, slowly, inexorably, to a more socialized structure.    His view was that the only test was how fast you get there.

The EU is, ultimately, the only way that Europe will be able to compete with the US and China.   That's just my opinion, and the citizens of the UK may certainly prove me wrong.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

 

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