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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 101128 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #975 on: March 13, 2019, 05:21:33 PM »
Come on Trench.. let me relieve you of your night shift earnings..

You  are stupid enough not to realise the game is up.

But you are not alone


Tomorrow night will be another clue


No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #976 on: March 13, 2019, 05:29:33 PM »
Come on Trench.. let me relieve you of your night shift earnings..

You  are stupid enough not to realise the game is up.

But you are not alone


Tomorrow night will be another clue

You're failing to realise Mobers that at any time now Tory Brexiteers can come out and vote their Government out for a General Election, all government business freezes, No Deal Brexit achieved.

That or the EU gives up and doesn't agree an extension. Remain on the other hand have no recourse and not enough support :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #977 on: March 13, 2019, 05:44:16 PM »
 :rolleyes:

You really are that daft..

Just accept my bet and kis your dosh goodbye

There were three votes on Brexit last night and the govt lost them all





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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #978 on: March 14, 2019, 03:23:58 AM »
SC : What happened with 'Brexit' , last night ?



MSMOBY:  She lost - AGAIN ..

SC:



MOBY:   There will be a vote on formally asking the EU to delay the UK's 'leaving' - if all all ...Mrs May will just ignore it ! ..and Trench still thinks this is the end ...

No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Offline tfcrew

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #979 on: March 14, 2019, 10:24:25 AM »
Does this all mean that a gang of persons from other countries... that they didn't vote for ....will then still sit around and tell the British people what they can or cannot do?
On the other hand, we here in the colonies have to endure this with Nanny Pelosi   

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #980 on: March 14, 2019, 10:28:26 AM »
Hardly,

It was mostly  dirty money from overseas that funded the leave campaign and some daft people still think Trampu and Putin know better))

'We' woke up a little late...but hopefully not too late..
No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #981 on: March 14, 2019, 12:33:57 PM »
 ::)

So..Brexit should be delayed.,voted for OVERWHELMINGLY

Not that Mrs May is listening...she may try to get her deal through for the third time...and she can expect a REALLY good kicking...

I expect the EU will agree to a delay.. but longer..giving us time for the people to take control and vote this farce into history



No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #982 on: March 14, 2019, 12:41:56 PM »
::)

So..Brexit should be delayed.,voted for OVERWHELMINGLY

Not that Mrs May is listening...she may try to get her deal through for the third time...and she can expect a REALLY good kicking...

I expect the EU will agree to a delay.. but longer..giving us time for the people to take control and vote this farce into histor

Delay is just pointless, would have been better for Theresa May to just bite the bullet and go for a No Deal Brexit.

Her deal will of course be voted down a third time, she is now directionless. The impasse in Parliament will never be solved by a delay it will remain just the same. MP's are entrenched it their respective positions and will not budge. It's down to either Moggy to back/go for a no confidence motion with Corbyn or the EU states to turn down a time extension. Otherwise more pointless sitting around listening to the same old arguments going nowhere.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #983 on: March 14, 2019, 01:00:30 PM »
Another possibility is after her deal is rejected a third time she tries for an extension then steps down after. There's little more she can do as far as she wants to go and she has already announced that she doesn't intend to stand for another election. I'm personally hoping some sort of action happens rather than more, yap, yap, yap.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #984 on: March 14, 2019, 01:06:18 PM »
Also interestingly:

"MPs earlier rejected an attempt to secure another Brexit referendum by 334 votes to 85."
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #985 on: March 15, 2019, 03:51:24 AM »
There will be a Brexit march starting in Sunderland on 16th March and ending in a rally in Parliament square on 29th March.
Just saying it like it is.

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #986 on: March 15, 2019, 05:54:59 AM »
No doubt they will not  appreciate being told they voted for Nissan to invest elsewhere ... 
No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #987 on: March 15, 2019, 06:27:03 AM »
Signs are that EU will only accept a longer delay for UK to get her act together on Brexit.  It's either that or crash out, which obviously is now the very least desirable path.  A second referendum also not on the table but will come up again and again, most likely with more and more support for it.

Honestly if it hasn't been worked out in these past two plus years, it's probably time to take a break from it all and reflect a bit.  As far as EU goes, they'll stick to the deal that already exists.  Expect no concessions.

Really stupid from the beginning with a lot of huff and bluff that's now petering out as folks wrap their heads around the real implications.

Online Gator

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #988 on: March 15, 2019, 09:06:16 AM »
Why am I wrong? 

I have stayed out of this debate because I have no skin in the outcome. 

       1.  The US stock market is important to me, yet there is no correlation between Brexit news and moves in the US stock market.   

      2.   I have avoided the Euro stock market for years as it seems the European government policies are not pro-growth.  The monetary policy is good for growth, yet many other policies are not.  From what I know, I do not see that Brexit, one way of the other, would impair the total Euro market more than these non-growth policies currently do.  By the way, I feel Europe needs to turn around its economy or it will eventually impair the global economy and hence the US.   

      3.  The Brexit issue is interesting because it explores new territory.  Yet, I am not a UK citizen nor a EU subject, and I do not reside in the UK.  As such, I do not have a firsthand feel for  the implications of how Brexit affects the life of UK and European people.   In other words, I am ignorant about what drove Brexit initially and the tradeoffs of IN or OUT. 

If I had a vote, I would likely vote for Brexit.  Why?  I am not a supporter of Big Government.  Government is absolutely necessary for humanity, yet government can overstep.  In my working years, I helped many US corporations with overseas operations comply with ISO this and that.   As a source of business revenue, I certainly do not begrudge the work,  yet I thought a significant part of it was misplaced good intentions. 

So, why am I wrong?   
         

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #989 on: March 15, 2019, 10:26:11 AM »
Easy, Phil

1/ You are wrong because there cannot be a Brexit on Mrs May's terms as most people in N.Ireland will never accept being subject to passport controls or customs checks..

There are long standing a recent agreements that any Brexit waould counter risking a return to violence

2 / The UK had an expanding car manufacturing capability and has Nissan, Toyota, Honda plants, 2 of which will now either close or lose investment.

BMW make minis here

The UK is part of Airbus who will not tolerate immigration or customs issues

Business sought stability and those voting for being better off need to realise that we areMUCH worse off and the boom times were a LIE

Then there is London's financial and the UK in general service sector.....We have kissed goodbye to 1000!s of well paid jobs to the benefit of other EU nations who cannot believe their luck



3/ Immigration

While EU migration fell, it has INCREASED from non EU nations and the UK sets those rules...   another piece of disinfo

You are a smart chap..

Cameron got a GREAT deal to 'win' the referendum and dirty overseas money seems to have duped voters to accept a far worse situation than he won for us.






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Offline ML

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #990 on: March 15, 2019, 09:29:09 PM »
I suspect there will be no Brexit or no remain and we will still talking about this 10 or more years from now.

Divorce between man and woman is sometimes a long and almost unending process . . . this will be between nations.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #991 on: March 16, 2019, 06:39:04 AM »
Easy, Phil

1/ You are wrong because there cannot be a Brexit on Mrs May's terms as most people in N.Ireland will never accept being subject to passport controls or customs checks..

There are long standing a recent agreements that any Brexit waould counter risking a return to violence

2 / The UK had an expanding car manufacturing capability and has Nissan, Toyota, Honda plants, 2 of which will now either close or lose investment.

BMW make minis here

The UK is part of Airbus who will not tolerate immigration or customs issues

Business sought stability and those voting for being better off need to realise that we areMUCH worse off and the boom times were a LIE

Then there is London's financial and the UK in general service sector.....We have kissed goodbye to 1000!s of well paid jobs to the benefit of other EU nations who cannot believe their luck



3/ Immigration

While EU migration fell, it has INCREASED from non EU nations and the UK sets those rules...   another piece of disinfo

You are a smart chap..

Cameron got a GREAT deal to 'win' the referendum and dirty overseas money seems to have duped voters to accept a far worse situation than he won for us.

Mobers,

1). The people of N.Ireland will have to show passports at the border in order to cross if the UK government deem it so, they will have no choice. Also it is largely out of their hands now as it's down to the Brexiteers in government, which way the DUP vote now has little bearing.

2). The people of the UK decide not big business. We have a diverse economy enough not to worry about the likes of a few Remain businesses trying to dictate to us.

3). Immigration from Non-EU Nations still needs to fall and I think will do after Brexit. Cameron's deal wasn't good enough thats why the people voted for Brexit.

Brexit will ultimately succeed it's just a question of whether Mrs May will gather on board the juggernaut heading towards her or be crushed by it.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #992 on: March 16, 2019, 07:29:19 AM »
Simply not worth responding to..given it is all bollox and is never going to happen..

Think otherwise?

You'd have bitten off my hand and taken my wager...

If you are going to troll at least try to come across as knowledgeable in the subject ..



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Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #993 on: March 16, 2019, 08:23:42 AM »
Why am I wrong? 

Gator, you're not wrong, just different priorities in play.

Pro-Growth has to be balanced with Pro-People who make it possible.

Left alone, I see Pro-Growth as having become a larger power than those that should be representing the majority of 'We the People', gobbling more and more along the way, often acting with impunity. 2007/8 was a result of such.  Just look around at Biz scandals and how much politics is intertwined, especially today.  Make a list of the largest Big Biz scandals and breaches and where it happened..

Big Gov of course can stifle growth, I'm not in favor of that either, but especially when Big Biz enjoys benefits of being able to write laws themselves, in their favor and financially supporting politicians that will push it through for them, something is very wrong.

EU strikes a decent but not optimal balance.  BIZ will feel more restricted.

I don't see why 'We the people' cannot enjoy the same benefits that Big Biz enjoys.  How about local Gov lowering taxes for people who move there and buy a home.  How about 'We the people' paying the same tax rate as Big Biz?  How about Big Biz paying more taxes for use of public infrastructure?  'We the People' have cars, not 18 wheelers.  How about penalties and punishment for misdeeds being more similar for People and Biz.  You have a little electric meter attached to your house.  Why aren't the companies with electric meters in the megawatt range paying the same rate as you do?  If you have a small business why are the rates you pay for healthcare plans for your employees much higher than those paid by Big Biz?  Shouldn't the playing field be level?

I could of course go on and on, but think you get my pov.

Brexit has little to do with biz, it has to do with fear.  When people fear they do unexpected, often destructive things.  This is one of them.  Big Biz adapts easily, follows the path of least resistance, least risk and best bottom line, either side of the Chunnel.  Thus many have left UK. Sure, cost 'em quite a bit but they can write most of it off their taxes.  Maybe a case of too BIG UK GOV? Maybe..   Meanwhile 'We the people' in many parts of UK will find themselves more restricted in many different ways they may not have expected. 

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #994 on: March 16, 2019, 01:31:34 PM »
The EU has problems many of which are caused by moving to far to fast with integration and ignoring all the problems cropping up along the way. Instead of matching the needs of its member nations it has lost track in this dash for the ultimate ego goal of integration. The whole point was that member nations wanted the EU to serve its needs not be dominated by it.

With any situation where you have a union of component nations there is nearly always a move of the nations peoples to free itself from the union particularly when it seems like the union is adversely affecting the nation(s) and becoming stifeling and over bearing, it makes common sense. The EU hasn't really recognised that but instead gone to far towards creating a far more rigid union than suits the nation states at this time. I envisage more EU member states will greater support for breaking away over time.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #995 on: March 16, 2019, 03:11:06 PM »
The EU has problems many of which are caused by moving to far to fast with integration and ignoring all the problems cropping up along the way. Instead of matching the needs of its member nations it has lost track in this dash for the ultimate ego goal of integration. The whole point was that member nations wanted the EU to serve its needs not be dominated by it.

With any situation where you have a union of component nations there is nearly always a move of the nations peoples to free itself from the union particularly when it seems like the union is adversely affecting the nation(s) and becoming stifeling and over bearing, it makes common sense. The EU hasn't really recognised that but instead gone to far towards creating a far more rigid union than suits the nation states at this time. I envisage more EU member states will greater support for breaking away over time.

I find that EU does not dominate member governments or citizens.  It is simply a union of states all moving towards a level playing field, giving it's citizens and permanent residents the ability to move freely, work and do business wherever and whenever they want, and even retire anywhere in EU.  I remember the days of borders in EU, having to comply with different customs regulations, different currencies etc etc.  If I lived in Italy, went skiing in Germany and broke my leg I'd have to pay the bill.  Today I'd show a card and never see a bill.  If I order goods from another country, the same consumer protection and rights to return the item applies along with a two year guarantee for what I keep.  If I have a problem with the state in which I live and can't achieve legal relief I can appeal all the way up to EU court. 

Ask someone from Italy and he'll say I'm an Italian!  Ask someone from Germany and he'll say I'm a German.. I haven't heard anyone say I'm an EUian, yet they all know they are citizens of EU.  So yes, even a national state identity is maintained, even more-so than in the US.

Bottom line, the benefits far outweigh any downsides and UK's 'troubles' are only based in fear.  Of course there are some citizens who simply do not get off the couch and limit their interaction and business with the local bar, brothel and fast food joint, so likely may not even realize many of these benefits, much less enjoy them.  I get the feeling that many Brexiteers are in this last crowd and just need something to crow over.  Something akin to Trumps 'base'..

Watching parlament live, ego's of disintegration abound LOL

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #996 on: March 16, 2019, 03:31:13 PM »
I find that EU does not dominate member governments or citizens.  It is simply a union of states all moving towards a level playing field, giving it's citizens and permanent residents the ability to move freely, work and do business wherever and whenever they want, and even retire anywhere in EU.  I remember the days of borders in EU, having to comply with different customs regulations, different currencies etc etc.  If I lived in Italy, went skiing in Germany and broke my leg I'd have to pay the bill.  Today I'd show a card and never see a bill.  If I order goods from another country, the same consumer protection and rights to return the item applies along with a two year guarantee for what I keep.  If I have a problem with the state in which I live and can't achieve legal relief I can appeal all the way up to EU court. 

Ask someone from Italy and he'll say I'm an Italian!  Ask someone from Germany and he'll say I'm a German.. I haven't heard anyone say I'm an EUian, yet they all know they are citizens of EU.  So yes, even a national state identity is maintained, even more-so than in the US.

Bottom line, the benefits far outweigh any downsides and UK's 'troubles' are only based in fear.  Of course there are some citizens who simply do not get off the couch and limit their interaction and business with the local bar, brothel and fast food joint, so likely may not even realize many of these benefits, much less enjoy them.  I get the feeling that many Brexiteers are in this last crowd and just need something to crow over.  Something akin to Trumps 'base'..

Watching parlament live, ego's of disintegration abound LOL

BC the EU Health Insurance card only states that it offers contribution to healthcare costs in another country and is often dependant on if they have a state healthcare service. In countries like the UK where there is complete healthcare provision all costs may be met. It really all still depends on the country you are in. If I were to go to Denmark I could get completely tuition free uni education even being a UK citizen. The problem with the EU is that it is caught between non-integration and total integration. There is no universal system but its neither a loose agreement either as under the EEC, it's a complete mess.

Problem with a lot of Remoaners is that they think everything coming down to the last farthing is most important. They are prepared to become slaves just for saving a few bob. To not have to do as others tell you and have their power over you is the most important thing in my book.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #997 on: March 16, 2019, 04:34:37 PM »
BC the EU Health Insurance card only states that it offers contribution to healthcare costs in another country and is often dependant on if they have a state healthcare service.

With very few exceptions for some nationals from non-EU countries, one enjoys same rights to health care as people insured in the country they are in.  I guess you haven't experienced it.  I caught a bit of pneumonia on a trip to Malta requiring a short stay, what I thought was a fishbone in my throat in Germany, nary a problem just showed my card like everyone else.. much less worries about a bill.

Quote
The problem with the EU is that it is caught between non-integration and total integration. There is no universal system but its neither a loose agreement either as under the EEC, it's a complete mess.

It's actually quite orderly.. but your statement above is indeed a complete mess.. what do you mean with non and total integration?  probably nothing?

Quote
Problem with a lot of Remoaners is that they think everything coming down to the last farthing is most important. They are prepared to become slaves just for saving a few bob. To not have to do as others tell you and have their power over you is the most important thing in my book.

No, they want to go on vacation or be able to live for longer periods elsewhere without the hassle of going through customs and immigration processes.  They want to do business without having to deal with a bunch of paperwork and duties.  They want to feel the comfort of home even when they are not at home.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #998 on: March 16, 2019, 05:02:48 PM »
With very few exceptions for some nationals from non-EU countries, one enjoys same rights to health care as people insured in the country they are in.  I guess you haven't experienced it.  I caught a bit of pneumonia on a trip to Malta requiring a short stay, what I thought was a fishbone in my throat in Germany, nary a problem just showed my card like everyone else.. much less worries about a bill.

It's actually quite orderly.. but your statement above is indeed a complete mess.. what do you mean with non and total integration?  probably nothing?

No, they want to go on vacation or be able to live for longer periods elsewhere without the hassle of going through customs and immigration processes.  They want to do business without having to deal with a bunch of paperwork and duties.  They want to feel the comfort of home even when they are not at home.

You were lucky it was Germany as they have a state health care system like us. Look into it you'll see I'm right. I've never had a problem showing my passport at the border when I visit no EU countries like Ukraine, you over emphasize the issue, a couple of words to write on paper work has you in tears, like most Remoaners you're too lazy.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #999 on: March 16, 2019, 05:21:51 PM »
You were lucky it was Germany as they have a state health care system like us. Look into it you'll see I'm right. I've never had a problem showing my passport at the border when I visit no EU countries like Ukraine, you over emphasize the issue, a couple of words to write on paper work has you in tears, like most Remoaners you're too lazy.

You have experience?  Please do share it.

 

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