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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 70779 times)

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Online msmob

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Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1200 on: April 05, 2019, 04:28:45 AM »
There was a By-Election last night  and 'UKIP' - which are nothing to do with Farage -  got 9 percent


Sssh..  the winner campaigned on and called for a 2nd and BINDING result referendum ;)

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #1201 on: April 05, 2019, 06:41:26 PM »
There was a By-Election last night  and 'UKIP' - which are nothing to do with Farage -  got 9 percent


Sssh..  the winner campaigned on and called for a 2nd and BINDING result referendum ;)

Yet more selective filtering of the facts from you Mobe. Labour's majority was much reduced from around 5000 or so votes to 1000 or so votes. UKIP got 2000 or so votes which Garage has now left and set up a Brexit Party. If UKIP had not run them by the Conservative candidate who was pro Brexit could have well got in.

This shows the problem of splitting a pro Brexit vote with Farage setting up another party the risk is that pro Brexit support won't be at all properly represented come a General Election. Brexit candidates of Conservatives, UKIP or the Brexit Party need to co-ordinate and organise if they are to avoid all losing out.

Labour, Change UK and the Lib Dems face a similar issue of dividing the pro Remain vote. It all depends which is willing to co-ordinate and organise the most effectively. Unfortunately on this one I do fear that egos in the Brexit camp of Conservatives, UKIP and the Brexit Party will not favour any dealings with the other. They can only hope the Remain camp is equally pig headed.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #1202 on: April 05, 2019, 07:08:55 PM »
...ans tou suggest I warped reality?

Not everyone voted on the issue of 'Brexit', Trench...

Ss you say, Labour and the Tories are split on Brexit and even pro Brexit supporters have now split.

Your analysis sucks for the very reasons you suggest!))

The only way forward is to let the UK public vote on any deal in a binding vote and we can get back to normalised politics..






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« Reply #1203 on: April 06, 2019, 04:37:52 AM »
...ans tou suggest I warped reality?

Not everyone voted on the issue of 'Brexit', Trench...

Ss you say, Labour and the Tories are split on Brexit and even pro Brexit supporters have now split.

Your analysis sucks for the very reasons you suggest!))

The only way forward is to let the UK public vote on any deal in a binding vote and we can get back to normalised politics..

I would agree on a public vote on any deal so long as no deal was one of the options. All the other deals/courses of action suck and the public I am certain would see that and vote for no deal. It's in the UK interest to end Freedom of Movement and to start doing trade deals with other countries :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline BC

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« Reply #1204 on: April 06, 2019, 06:13:53 AM »
I would agree on a public vote on any deal so long as no deal was one of the options. All the other deals/courses of action suck and the public I am certain would see that and vote for no deal. It's in the UK interest to end Freedom of Movement and to start doing trade deals with other countries :)

Freedom of movement is reciprocal, don't forget that.
Do you really think UK will get trade deals that are better off than the current in EU deals in place?  LOL  Remember that's a 'go around, come around' situation also.

The bulb in the closet just got dimmer.  Pass the night vision glasses...

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #1205 on: April 06, 2019, 06:26:21 AM »
Freedom of movement is reciprocal, don't forget that.
Do you really think UK will get trade deals that are better off than the current in EU deals in place?  LOL  Remember that's a 'go around, come around' situation also.

The bulb in the closet just got dimmer.  Pass the night vision glasses...

The problem is BC that Europe is too near to do trade with. That may sound strange but we need to reduce our balance of trade deficit for the UK to prosper. If cheap goods keep coming in from the EU particularly from Poland with its cheap currency then a lot of wealth in the UK flows out of the UK. The US is a better suited free trade partner, there is a nice big ocean between us and that gives a reasonable transportation cost to avoid goods coming into each others country too cheaply and decimating the industry in each others country. The US has had similar free trade problems with China because if their cheap currency and to a lesser extent with Mexico and possibly Canada. The US is a huge market and we would both benefit better from being trade partners than with other countries. Plus they try and speak English ;D
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #1206 on: April 06, 2019, 06:28:26 AM »
Trench, with every post you just confirm how daft you are..

Even you admit you posts sound strange..


Listen to yourself...))


Offline BC

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« Reply #1207 on: April 06, 2019, 07:17:10 AM »
Trench, with every post you just confirm how daft you are..

Last reply sure zinged over my head. Maybe Trench will be the next Nobel Prize winner for Economics?

Trench you really do need to submit your post to someone qualified for peer review.  I'd love to hear about it.

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« Reply #1208 on: April 06, 2019, 05:52:24 PM »
Last reply sure zinged over my head. Maybe Trench will be the next Nobel Prize winner for Economics?

Trench you really do need to submit your post to someone qualified for peer review.  I'd love to hear about it.

It's the issue many get stuck on with free trade between the UK and the EU. Many follow ideology that no tariffs are beneficial with the EU but they fail to look at the specific aspects of whether the UK benefits from free trade with the EU. There are more economic aspects at play here than just being able to trade freely.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #1209 on: April 07, 2019, 01:21:57 AM »
BC ,

Trench simply does bot get the concept that we DO trade the most with our closest neighbours. The prospect of  border / customs checks between UK and Ireland areTHE reason Trench's wet dream cannot and will not happen.

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« Reply #1210 on: April 07, 2019, 01:33:51 AM »
BC ,

Trench simply does bot get the concept that we DO trade the most with our closest neighbours. The prospect of  border / customs checks between UK and Ireland areTHE reason Trench's wet dream cannot and will not happen.

Problem is Mobers is that we do too much trade with the EU which contributes to our balance of trade deficit, not a good thing to have as all the wealth flows abroad. A lot of those goods imported from the EU could be made in this country keeping wealth here and creating jobs.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #1211 on: April 07, 2019, 01:43:50 AM »
There are more economic aspects at play here than just being able to trade freely.

So... even the mere scare of Brexit blocking this free trade (forget the rest of the brexit agenda) is already sending hundreds if not thousands of companies scurrying to the continent to set up shop there, along the way taking a Trillion and counting in capital, reducing production of your main exports - automobiles with producers like Ford, and even Airbus threatening to move, taking a hundred thousand plus jobs on top of many tens of thousands of jobs already moving, at the same time decreasing GDP and tax revenue.  And.. to put the icing on the cake, the companies that remain will have to deal with a dwindling economy domestically, increased costs and time to import raw goods to produce their warez and then try to compete with EU companies whilst carrying the double whammy load of export tariffs?  All this with GBP tumbling even further, even beyond parity with EUR, causing rapid inflation for the necessities of life, carrying the real risk of splitting up the UK?

Right.... please do expound upon your economic theory and describe the mechanisms that despite these hurdles, will allow the whole of UK to thrive, keeping in mind how quickly folks will become even more disgruntled with Brexit.  Do be specific, in a manner this layman can understand.

Offline BC

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« Reply #1212 on: April 07, 2019, 02:31:17 AM »
Problem is Mobers is that we do too much trade with the EU which contributes to our balance of trade deficit, not a good thing to have as all the wealth flows abroad. A lot of those goods imported from the EU could be made in this country keeping wealth here and creating jobs.

Indeed, all those goods could be made in UK if it has all the raw materials necessary (UK does not), has the energy and fuel needed (Uk does not) has the production facilities that will economically produce these goods (UK does not) and has the IP rights to do so (Uk does not).

Your rather Utopian view doesn't add up.  Companies who do produce economically will be shuttering up and moving to the mainland as they could only do so with free trade and exports.  Instead of independence, you will be gaining only dependency with many more of your necessities having to be imported.

Take loo paper as an example.  For some reason UK uses twice as much loo paper as the rest of EU and imports most of it.  On any given day there is only 1 day of stock in UK.  Borrowing a newspaper from your neighbor that still subscribes might be an option but guess what.. folks are able to sell them for twice the price at the news stand, or quadruple the price you were paying for a roll at your local Lidl!

But maybe you are correct.. folks will simply have to cut back on intake due to high costs and shortages, which subsequently will reduce their 'output', requiring much less loo paper!.  Furthermore another main UK import - fuel will cost more forcing many more to walk rather than drive, wanting to get out of their dark houses, getting slimmer along the way.  Stock up now on loo paper and candles!  You're gonna have women lined up at your door for a romantic candlelight wipe!  For a time, initially, you'll have the 'pick of the litter' you've strived for for so long..  You're a Genius Trench!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 02:34:12 AM by BC »

Online msmob

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« Reply #1213 on: April 10, 2019, 06:35:41 PM »
Another bad day for Brextremists..

The UK given more time.

Mrs May thinks the question of letting the people decide will go away.

Further attempts to run down the clock will be rewarded by kickings in parliament.

A no deal exit is history


Poor Trench..
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 01:08:01 AM by msmob »

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #1214 on: April 11, 2019, 12:38:02 AM »
Another bad day for Brextremists..

The UK given more time.

Mrs May thinks the question of letting the people decide will go away.

Further attempts to run down the clock will be rewarded by lickings in parliament.

A no deal exit is history


Poor Trench..

Well I did say the ERG group should have called a vote of no confidence in their own government which would have frozen government while a General Election was held so we would have left on the 29th March as we should have. It may have been seen as pre emptive and not the most ideal situation but it would be better than the situation we have had on our hands since the 29th deadline was bypassed.

No matter, the extra time will just make it clear that neither Theresa May's Deal nor a Customs Union will be satisfactory outcomes. The people at large know it, unfortunately many MP's are slow off the mark and yet to catch up. No Deal Brexit is the only real solution.

Odds are before 31st October Theresa May will step down and a leadership Election will be called and/or she will lose her majority through more party resignations resulting in a General Election.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 12:54:22 AM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #1215 on: April 11, 2019, 01:13:41 AM »
More bollox summaries from the clueless Trench

Had the spineless ERG voted with the combined opposition :

1/ Would it even have been enough votes ?

2/ HOW do you figure  'we' would have left on the 29th ..  An extension would have been granted - given the General Election


Do TRY to think, before posting ....   


Now really, IS the scary time ..

Your No deal scenario has GONE ..


Mrs May  has already simply resumed her , "my deal" is the only deal approach - forgetting that we have time to  hold a binding referendum - as Politicians can't sort this out..

 We must put this decision in the hands of the PEOPLE in a legally binding referendum



« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 01:30:51 AM by msmob »

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« Reply #1216 on: April 12, 2019, 11:02:00 AM »
Well Farage officially launched his Brexit Party today and has a Moggy on board already :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47907350

I think it will do well as Farage is a great campaigner and spokesperson. I always thought he was handicapped by the UKIP setup that wasn't a great electioneering machine and lacked effective organisation at least that needed to do well in elections.

Farage's Brexit Party looks like it will be better focused and will give renewed momentum to the the Leave campaign that risks luckluster mobilisation with UKIP.

UKIP has of course had it's successes and moments but I fear that it is now an old model getting past its best. The main issue is whether enough people will come over from UKIP to the Brexit Party, I think they will be the problem remains that the Leave vote could be badly split. On this basis I would rather see UKIP change purely to a lobby group and not field Election candidates rather than go head to head with Farage and do a pointless disservice to each other.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #1217 on: April 12, 2019, 11:46:49 AM »
http://thebrexitparty.com

You should join ..))

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« Reply #1218 on: April 13, 2019, 12:39:21 PM »
http://thebrexitparty.com

You should join ..))

Didn't click on the link Mobers, already heard all about that one.

Funny thing is this whole Brexit process has built up the Leave side far more than it ever has been as a result. It's not something that is now going to go away until no deal is achieved. Now that there is a proper Brexit Party there is an organisation the Tory Brexiteers can jump to in the UK Parliament. The fact that Moggy's sister is in the Brexit Party makes it a very close relationship. If or should I say when Theresa May loses her majority the Brexit Party could well be on course to win a General Election. Place your bets now Mobers for good odds ;)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Chelseaboy

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« Reply #1219 on: April 17, 2019, 09:53:48 AM »
Moby loves a poll..so here's one to make him shudder : ))

A poll at YouGove shows that Nigel Farage's brand new Brexit party is set to sweep all before them in the upcoming European Parliament elections next month..with 27 % of people saying they'll be voted for.


Labour is predicted to get 22% of the votes,with the Tories getting 15% of the votes.


Green party on 10 % and Lib Dems on 9 %.


Soubry's love-child,Brexit -hating Change UK party, is predicted to get a massive 6 % of the votes LOL.


That'll be at least eleven MP's seats for the  Brexit party to claim in the next General Election then : ))

There's a storm coming.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 10:07:09 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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« Reply #1220 on: April 17, 2019, 10:50:41 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47871652

UKIP came top in the last elections - but IF one added up the other - mainly remain  - parties - excluding the Tories - they'd be outnumbered

In this poll UKIP and the 'brexit party'  combined are polling 33 percent

The ( mainly ) remain parties are polling at 47 percent - excluding the Tories

Yup - I DO love polls

 

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« Reply #1221 on: April 17, 2019, 11:28:59 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47871652

UKIP came top in the last elections - but IF one added up the other - mainly remain  - parties - excluding the Tories - they'd be outnumbered

In this poll UKIP and the 'brexit party'  combined are polling 33 percent

The ( mainly ) remain parties are polling at 47 percent - excluding the Tories

Yup - I DO love polls

Looks like Farage's new Brexit Party is already making waves and storming ahead :D

http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/17/nigel-farages-new-brexit-party-surges-top-european-elections/amp/

The article you quote Mobe shows a lack of willingness for the Remain parties to co-operate. The Leave side too I don't see that there will be any co-operation either. It's going to be be a pitched battle on every side.

I think to be honest we need these Euro Elections to have it out and I think Theresa May stands no chance of avoiding them either.

My prediction will be that people will leave voting Tory and UKIP in their droves to vote for Farage and the Brexit Party. They are fed up of not leaving the EU under a no deal Brexit and are looking for a new force to spearhead the campaign forward!

http://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/nigel-farages-brexit-party-could-win-european-elections-poll-11696217
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 12:15:56 PM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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« Reply #1222 on: April 18, 2019, 03:53:50 AM »
Never the most observant posters, Trench

CB is already wishing he checked the polls before posting daft

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« Reply #1223 on: April 18, 2019, 02:08:16 PM »
Never the most observant posters, Trench

CB is already wishing he checked the polls before posting daft

Mobers your (Don't want to) Change UK party is on 6 percent of the vote. Come the EU Elections unless that 'changes' they will get pasted and unlikely get any MEP's since the minimum in most areas is 10 percent to get an MEP under their proportional representation system.

All they have at the moment is an out of date buzz word as a party name that doesn't actually reflect what the party stand for and a party logo that failed to be accepted, lol.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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« Reply #1224 on: April 18, 2019, 03:58:42 PM »
Nothing daft about a YouGove poll showing the brand new Brexit party is set to claim 27 % of the votes,whilst the Moby-loving Brexit-hating party is down for 6 % of the votes.


Moby attempting to spin it into something else IS daft though : ))))))
« Last Edit: April 18, 2019, 04:00:21 PM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

 

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