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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 85472 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1825 on: August 14, 2019, 11:14:19 AM »
Yes but they crucially can't stop a suspension of Parliament through holding a General Election..

Trench, you REALLY do not think before typing - these moves are ALL about boxing Boris in .. he will not have ANY moves that will ensure a win .. certainly not calling a G.E.

Another move - as I foretold from America - of all places ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49348062

A US-UK trade deal will not get through Congress if Brexit undermines the Good Friday Agreement, the Speaker of the US House of Representatives has said.

Democrat Nancy Pelosi, whose party controls the House, said the UK's exit from the EU could not be allowed to endanger the Irish peace deal.

Her comments came after the US national security adviser said the UK would be "first in line" for a trade deal.


Who'ds have though those 'Irish american' would come to the rescue ? ..

Your Boris is getting proper kippered up, Trench ...

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1826 on: August 14, 2019, 11:57:03 AM »

Your Boris is getting proper kippered up, Trench ...

Boris......He has everything going for him.    Consider his attributes. 

                 

                  -  Tall, large man

                  -  Big mane of blonde hair

                  -  Lots of children

                 -   Conservative politics

                  -  And most important, born in New York City!


With this winning combination, I predict growing prosperity for UK.  The only caveat - if only he had an Eastern European wife.


                      :ROFL:




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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1827 on: August 14, 2019, 12:15:02 PM »
Trench, you REALLY do not think before typing - these moves are ALL about boxing Boris in .. he will not have ANY moves that will ensure a win .. certainly not calling a G.E.

Another move - as I foretold from America - of all places ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49348062

A US-UK trade deal will not get through Congress if Brexit undermines the Good Friday Agreement, the Speaker of the US House of Representatives has said.

Democrat Nancy Pelosi, whose party controls the House, said the UK's exit from the EU could not be allowed to endanger the Irish peace deal.

Her comments came after the US national security adviser said the UK would be "first in line" for a trade deal.


Who'ds have though those 'Irish american' would come to the rescue ? ..

Your Boris is getting proper kippered up, Trench ...

End of the day of he Good Friday Agreement/NI Border is none of the business of the US, they have no real stake their. Even so if Congress did follow through on their threat it's the least of Boris's concerns.

What do you think will keep Boris awake more at night the NI border and uproar or the Tory Party breaking up and the end of its existence?

My thoughts would be on the latter ;)

That's what you're not getting all along, Boris doesn't have any choice than a No Deal General Election Brexit. He he chooses any other route it's certain disaster. Whatever the response to the NI Border turning into a hard border that won't be a disaster for Boris, it won't likely be good, it will likely be bad but it's a wound Boris will have to stomach to avoid far worse - from where he is.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1828 on: August 14, 2019, 12:46:44 PM »
End of the day of he Good Friday Agreement/NI Border is none of the business of the US, they have no real stake their. Even so if Congress did follow through on their threat it's the least of Boris's concerns.

HaHaHa


As an Ulster Proddie, when the Americans got involved, *I* thought the same in the 90's .. George J. Mitchell turned out to be da man and got all sides at the table ..

It IS the business of the Americans ( well the Dems in Congress )-  if they decide to torpedo 'Trampu's' 'trade deal' with a govt that will fail to deliver and fall.

I did tell you that there'd be ALL sorts of problems that would f'ck Boris ..




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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1829 on: August 14, 2019, 01:11:34 PM »
HaHaHa


As an Ulster Proddie, when the Americans got involved, *I* thought the same in the 90's .. George J. Mitchell turned out to be da man and got all sides at the table ..

It IS the business of the Americans ( well the Dems in Congress )-  if they decide to torpedo 'Trampu's' 'trade deal' with a govt that will fail to deliver and fall.

I did tell you that there'd be ALL sorts of problems that would f'ck Boris ..

Mobe, a trade deal with whoever is NOT Boris's main problem. Countries can carry on trading well enough under WTO, particularly countries like the UK.

Boris's main problem IS his party self-destructing as it will if we don't leave the EU on the 31st October.

Now I ask you again what is most important to Boris?

A big hint I have given you above ;D
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 01:58:32 PM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1830 on: August 14, 2019, 11:31:15 PM »
Mobe, a trade deal with whoever is NOT Boris's main problem. Countries can carry on trading well enough under WTO, particularly countries like the UK.

..and you know the default rates we'd be on if we crash out of the WTO. ? :popcorn:

Boris's main problem IS his party self-destructing as it will if we don't leave the EU on the 31st October

It has ALREADY self-destructed, and there'll be more desertions..


Now I ask you again what is most important to Boris?

A big hint I have given you above ;D

Boris will not be able to make any moves, or delay things .. Boris' only ( remote) chance is a winning a GE ..like THAT is going to happen, unless he captures Farage's vote ..

Remain / anti- 'no deal' will walk it... once that IDIOT Corbyn wakes up to reality ..

Wait and see ... lots of twists and turns due ..   

edited to add:

A VERY good reson to be  extra scared ...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220

UK must accept US food standards in trade deal, says [US]  farm chief

"he said fears over practices such as washing chicken in chlorine and using genetically modified (GM) crops were not "science-based".


some fear the UK will have to compromise on standards currently enshrined in EU law in order to secure a deal with Washington.



Most right minded UK people are NOT going to want GM modified food .. Boris' is on a hiding to nothing .. The EU food standards are FAR more consumer related .. US ones are for the producers

« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 05:57:23 AM by msmob »

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1831 on: August 15, 2019, 12:40:55 AM »
..and you know the default rates we'd be on if we crash out of the WTO. ? :popcorn:

It has ALREADY self-destructed, and there'll be more desertions..


Boris will not be able to make any moves, or delay things .. Boris' only ( remote) chance is a winning a GE ..like THAT is going to happen, unless he captures Farage's vote ..

Remain / anti- 'no deal' will walk it... once that IDIOT Corbyn wakes up to reality ..

Wait and see ... lots of twists and turns due ..   

edited to add:

A VERY good reson to be  extra scared ...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220

UK must accept US food standards in trade deal, says [US]  farm chief

"he said fears over practices such as washing chicken in chlorine and using genetically modified (GM) crops were not "science-based".


some fear the UK will have to compromise on standards currently enshrined in EU law in order to secure a deal with Washington.



Most right minded UK people are NOT going to want GM modified food .. Boris' is on a hiding to nothing .. The EU food standards are FAR more concumers related .. US ones are for the producers

Mobe we have seen overnight that the Lib Dems are not prepared to work with Labour in a caretaker government, so any VoNC they will be after a GE straight of the bat. It also shows that they are highly unlikely to come to a Lib/Lab electoral pact.

Boris is more likely to call a GE straight off when Parliament returns now that Corbyn has shown his hand and been let down by the other parties in Parliament. Just goes to show how hopelessly divided the situation is.

You missed my main point over Boris needing Brexit to happen for him on the 31st October, so I'll walk you through it ;) . We're not talking about losing a few Tories that are Remoaners here, it will be far worse for Boris than that.

We are talking about:

1). Boris losing credibility just as Teresa did.

2). The Tories losing credibility of Leave voters and hence a swing to the Brexit Party as we saw in the EU Elections.

3). The Tories losing nearly all of their seats to either Brexit Party candidates or losing them as the result of splitting their share of the vote with the Brexit Party.

The result of all of this apart from having virtually no seats in Parliament is that the Tories will turn to infighting as they traditionally do. Only this time the Remainers & Leave Tories will break what remains of the Tory Party apart in blaming each other. The Tory Party will have no hope of power and people will abandon the remnants of it in their droves.

That scenario of course is an absolute catastrophe for Boris. For me who has no love for the Tories a joy to behold :) Finally rid of the Tories forever, but then again it's Brexit us Leavers want. So Boris has his chance so what do you think he'll do faced with such a scenario? Go for No Deal Brexit on the 31st October or see his Party and his Premiership destroyed very quickly? Hmmnn?
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1832 on: August 15, 2019, 05:59:55 AM »
Trench, I'm well aware Corbyn is  being an utter prat..I broiught the matter up .. We saw how Labour fared in Brecon - nearly losing their deposit in a 'LEAVE' seat..

Why would you believe I'm remotely worried about not taking loads more seats from Boris ?  :popcorn:




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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1833 on: August 15, 2019, 06:35:05 AM »
Trench, I'm well aware Corbyn is  being an utter prat..I broiught the matter up .. We saw how Labour fared in Brecon - nearly losing their deposit in a 'LEAVE' seat..

Why would you believe I'm remotely worried about not taking loads more seats from Boris ?  :popcorn:

As a Remoaner you won't be worried about Boris losing a load more seats, but him and his party will. That's why he will go for a No Deal Brexit on the 31st October. If he can get an election in after to span over it then chances are he can come to an agreement with Farage.

Either way if Brexit is done on the 31st October and an election thereafter the Brexit Party will likely lose a lot of support as Brexit will then have been achieved which is the whole point of their being. So it is Boris's best and only way forward, he won't care about other issues he will only care about avoiding his party being utterly destroyed. Are you following now?
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1834 on: August 15, 2019, 06:54:27 AM »
Your incoherent ramblings and resulting Q prove your attention span..

Wait and see ..

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1835 on: August 15, 2019, 07:22:44 AM »
Your incoherent ramblings and resulting Q prove your attention span..

Wait and see ..

Ah, I apologize of course, I forgot your learning difficulty, I shall rephrase in a more basic format for you understand when I get the time ;)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1836 on: August 15, 2019, 07:52:18 AM »
Ah, I apologize of course, I forgot your learning difficulty, I shall rephrase in a more basic format for you understand when I get the time ;)

You meant apologiSe , course -

Are you sure you can vote in the UK ?

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1837 on: August 15, 2019, 12:14:22 PM »
You meant apologiSe , course -

Are you sure you can vote in the UK ?

For the benefit of the forum's US members of course. We'll soon be dealing with them regularly so you'll need to learn their language Mobers ;D

Well meanwhile your education continues today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49359664

I know a lot of words so I'll summarise:

'Labour & Lib Dems can't agree on anything'

Seeing that they are the two main opposition parties I would say that is a problem for Remain candidates taking many seats from electoral pacts, don't you think?
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1838 on: August 16, 2019, 01:23:08 AM »
For the benefit of the forum's US members of course. We'll soon be dealing with them regularly so you'll need to learn their language Mobers ;D

Well meanwhile your education continues today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49359664

I know a lot of words so I'll summarise:

'Labour & Lib Dems can't agree on anything'

Seeing that they are the two main opposition parties I would say that is a problem for Remain candidates taking many seats from electoral pacts, don't you think?

Trench,

You are as 'smart' as Labour 'leader', Corbyn

The most recent by-election .... Brecon .. where did Labour come ?

Who won ?

Who just avoided losing their deposit - getting JUST over 5%?

THAT is how relevant Labour are ;)


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1839 on: August 16, 2019, 02:12:54 AM »
Trench,

You are as 'smart' as Labour 'leader', Corbyn

The most recent by-election .... Brecon .. where did Labour come ?

Who won ?

Who just avoided losing their deposit - getting JUST over 5%?

THAT is how relevant Labour are ;)

Not all the seats in a GE are going to have a sitting Tory MP convicted on Expenses Mobe. You are foolishly reading a lot into one situation and unfortunately for you only serving to fool yourself.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 07:07:27 AM by Trenchcoat »
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1840 on: August 16, 2019, 03:56:02 AM »
Not all the seats in a GE are going to have a sitting Tory MP convicted on Expenses Move. You are foolishly reading a lot into one situation and unfortunately for you only serving to fool yourself.
Trench, you do not do obtuse, well

1/ It was a leave seat

2/ Labour came nowhere...so your suggesting the relevance of Labour under Corbyn is .. like most of your posts ..questionable logic ..

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1841 on: August 16, 2019, 07:22:58 AM »
Trench, you do not do obtuse, well

1/ It was a leave seat

2/ Labour came nowhere...so your suggesting the relevance of Labour under Corbyn is .. like most of your posts ..questionable logic ..

Mobers the Brecon 2017 General Election results were:

Con    20,081      
LD           12,043   
Lab             7,335   
PC             1,299   
UKIP            576   

So you see Mobers the Lib Dems were already way ahead of Labour. After PC and the Greens pledged their support and hence many of their voters it became apparent to many Labour supporters that they would be wasting their vote. If they wanted to Remain or to get rid of a greedy fiddling Tory MP they would need to vote Lib Dem as Labour were never going to get enough votes to beat him.

I addition the Brexit Party ran in the By-election and came third taking a fair amount of votes mostly of the Tory candidate it can be surmised. If the Brexit Party don't run in the next GE or come to a deal with Boris then the Lib Dems won't have them splitting the Leave vote.

I'm sorry Mobers but Brecon is one constituency in the UK, it won't likely be symbolic of what happens across the UK in a General Election. The Lib Dems have never come second place in a General Election since Labour took over from them around a century ago now. I don't see that changing this GE time around.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1842 on: August 16, 2019, 08:31:25 AM »
Compare Brecon constituency with Totnes, the constituency of recent ex-Tory, ex-Change UK, Independent defector to the Lib Dems, Sarah Wollaston:

Conservative    26,972
Labour    13,495
Liberal Democrat    6,466
Green Party    2,097
UKIP   1,240

Here we see Labour in second place after the 2017 General Election. Can Sarah Wollaston retain the Lib Dem vote and bring over enough of her Tory voters OR will the new Tory candidate hold onto the bulk of these and so deprive her of the seat. Would a new Tory candidate get the seat or would Labour get the seat because of this or would Sarah Wollaston retain the seat for the Lib Dems even the Lib Dems are presently trailing many votes back in 3rd?
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1843 on: August 16, 2019, 11:40:37 AM »
Mobers the Brecon 2017 General Election results were:

Con    20,081      
LD           12,043   
Lab             7,335   
PC             1,299   
UKIP            576   

So you see Mobers the Lib Dems were already way ahead of Labour. After PC and the Greens pledged their support and hence many of their voters it became apparent to many Labour supporters that they would be wasting their vote. If they wanted to Remain or to get rid of a greedy fiddling Tory MP they would need to vote Lib Dem as Labour were never going to get enough votes to beat him.

I addition the Brexit Party ran in the By-election and came third taking a fair amount of votes mostly of the Tory candidate it can be surmised. If the Brexit Party don't run in the next GE or come to a deal with Boris then the Lib Dems won't have them splitting the Leave vote.

I'm sorry Mobers but Brecon is one constituency in the UK, it won't likely be symbolic of what happens across the UK in a General Election. The Lib Dems have never come second place in a General Election since Labour took over from them around a century ago now. I don't see that changing this GE time around.

You don't think, don't see and will never learn .. As you pointed out the 'leave' vote was split - allowing a REMAIN win ..;)

The Pound recovered some ground ... as yourself WHY ?

Could it be i'm going to be proven correct ? ;)

It's all going Pete Tong for Boris ..



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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1844 on: August 16, 2019, 11:43:21 AM »
Compare Brecon constituency with Totnes, the constituency of recent ex-Tory, ex-Change UK, Independent defector to the Lib Dems, Sarah Wollaston:

Conservative    26,972
Labour    13,495
Liberal Democrat    6,466
Green Party    2,097
UKIP   1,240

Here we see Labour in second place after the 2017 General Election. Can Sarah Wollaston retain the Lib Dem vote and bring over enough of her Tory voters OR will the new Tory candidate hold onto the bulk of these and so deprive her of the seat. Would a new Tory candidate get the seat or would Labour get the seat because of this or would Sarah Wollaston retain the seat for the Lib Dems even the Lib Dems are presently trailing many votes back in 3rd?

Interesting you chose this seat... Sarah Wollaston is a friend of a friend and the Labour candidate if pro remain, too .. All she'll need is the brexitparty.com candidate to stand and even she'll be OK;)




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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1845 on: August 16, 2019, 06:25:16 PM »
Interesting you chose this seat... Sarah Wollaston is a friend of a friend and the Labour candidate if pro remain, too .. All she'll need is the brexitparty.com candidate to stand and even she'll be OK;)

Or it will mean the Remain vote will be badly split.

Chucka Umana faces even more of an uphill struggle to hold onto his seat as the Lib Dems are trailing even further behind there. Looks like he may have chuck'ed away his seat :)
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1846 on: August 16, 2019, 06:33:14 PM »
You don't think, don't see and will never learn .. As you pointed out the 'leave' vote was split - allowing a REMAIN win ..;)

The Pound recovered some ground ... as yourself WHY ?

Could it be i'm going to be proven correct ? ;)

It's all going Pete Tong for Boris ..

That happens in the markets, it's why policy shouldn't be decided by the back and forth of market sentiment.

I doubt they know any more than we do.

All the caretaker gov talk will have made it even more clear to Boris that he will have to go for a General Election straight off the bat when Parliament resumes after summer recess. Expect him to stand up first and announce it.

The only thing that can scupper Boris is if the Brexit Party goes head to head with him. On that if he falls the election date after the 31st October as I expect then he will just have to hope that will be enough to stop too many votes going to the Brexit Party. I still personally don't think they will run in that case as job will have been done and I tend to think Farage would have enough up top to not want to sink post Brexit chances of us remaining out of the EU by splitting the Leave vote.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1847 on: August 17, 2019, 02:08:10 AM »
Excuses, excuses.. we both know the markets react to sighs of sanity re brexit .. UPWARD movement ..

That happens in the markets, it's why policy shouldn't be decided by the back and forth of market sentiment.

I doubt they know any more than we do.

Hahaha, you aren't reading the tea-leaves... those that do, have seen all this coming .. 



All the caretaker gov talk will have made it even more clear to Boris that he will have to go for a General Election straight off the bat when Parliament resumes after summer recess. Expect him to stand up first and announce it.

..and he'd STILL be fighting thebrexitparty.com and UKIP..while remain get their act together ..

Boris isn't trusted by either side and many within his own party ;)



The only thing that can scupper Boris is if the Brexit Party goes head to head with him. On that if he falls the election date after the 31st October as I expect then he will just have to hope that will be enough to stop too many votes going to the Brexit Party. I still personally don't think they will run in that case as job will have been done and I tend to think Farage would have enough up top to not want to sink post Brexit chances of us remaining out of the EU by splitting the Leave vote.

I DID warn you ...  :popcorn:


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1848 on: August 17, 2019, 04:39:40 AM »
Latest poll...

15 percent more against crashing out, or leaving at all..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-boris-public-opinion-poll-against-delay-cancel-second-referendum-a9062686.html

Penny dropping, Trench?

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #1849 on: August 17, 2019, 02:36:11 PM »
Latest poll...

15 percent more against crashing out, or leaving at all..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/no-deal-brexit-boris-public-opinion-poll-against-delay-cancel-second-referendum-a9062686.html

Penny dropping, Trench?

Mobers, that's a pro Remain newspaper commissioning some unknown polling company, BMG??? To push out doggy polling stats.

Better we leave the EU  as voted for in the referendum and decide this whole matter. More progress will be made by doing this.

Boris knows he's got to jump the hurdle as far as going for a No Deal Brexit/General Election is concerned. Better that he acts decisively and goes for it even if the wind does not seem to be blowing in the right way on everything than dribble on with the situation as is.

If he does the No Deal Brexit/General Election way as it looks he will and needs to then I think he will do well enough in the General Election whatever the scenario. If he hesitates and doesn't go for this path then he is screwed for certain which ever alternative he tries.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

 

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