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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 100564 times)

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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2275 on: October 06, 2019, 10:03:04 PM »
Hello Trench,

When you use BillyB as 'validation', I KNOW you are rattled.....

The margin of error was +/- 3 percent and the polls were within that margin...

The 'Brexit' Polls I posted....when have 'leave' led?...

'Trampu' got nearly THREE MILLION less votes..

Now, I note you haven't deal with my other predictions in your usual dismissive manner, recently.

I wouldn't waste that money on the pumpkin...I am not saying we do not need to worry about Boris...I am more worried about the EU saying clear off !

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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2276 on: October 07, 2019, 07:51:25 AM »
Hello Trench,

When you use BillyB as 'validation', I KNOW you are rattled.....

The margin of error was +/- 3 percent and the polls were within that margin...

The 'Brexit' Polls I posted....when have 'leave' led?...

'Trampu' got nearly THREE MILLION less votes..

Now, I note you haven't deal with my other predictions in your usual dismissive manner, recently.

I wouldn't waste that money on the pumpkin...I am not saying we do not need to worry about Boris...I am more worried about the EU saying clear off !

Mobe, the EU doesn't want the UK to leave. The UK leaving could expose the falisy of the EU, namely that countries do better without paying the exhorbitant membership fees even if free trade options are not as good. If the UK leaves and does remarkable well all other western EU nations will want to follow.

It's the UK seeing what's on the other side of being outside the UK that the EU fear us seeing. They were rather we were kept ignorantly in the dark.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2277 on: October 07, 2019, 08:03:25 AM »
If the EU truly does not want 'us' to leave....and I expect Boris and co. are trying to find a member to veto...then his goose and your predictions are....


WORTHLESS
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2278 on: October 07, 2019, 11:56:24 AM »
'Trampu' got nearly THREE MILLION less votes..



You've been told countless times the American presidential election isn't based on popular votes. The popular vote is used within States. States have a say who gets to be president and all or a portion of their electoral votes are cast for a candidate running for president.

Why is popular vote so important to you anyway? You don't respect and constantly resist the majority who voted for Brexit.
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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2279 on: October 08, 2019, 03:37:22 AM »
You've been told countless times the American presidential election isn't based on popular votes. The popular vote is used within States. States have a say who gets to be president and all or a portion of their electoral votes are cast for a candidate running for president.

Why is popular vote so important to you anyway? You don't respect and constantly resist the majority who voted for Brexit.


Silly BillyB

Being told something doesn't mean the situation is 'right' or 'fair' ..

I have addressed your question re the non-binding Brexit referendum, before and repeating the question simply proves you read selectively or are inattentive - or both


Trench,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49970267


Brexit: Deal 'essentially impossible' after PM-Merkel call


so when is Boris going to send the letter asking for an extension...?

The Court of Sessions accepts his assurance that he will comply with the 'Ben Bill'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49959167

"Lord Pentland said there could be "no doubt" that the prime minister had agreed to abide by the law.

As a result, he said there was no need for "coercive orders" against the UK government or against the prime minister.

And he said it would be "destructive of one of the core principles of constitutional propriety and of the mutual trust that is the bedrock of the relationship between the court and the Crown" if Mr Johnson reneged on his assurances to the court."


So, unless Boris is the fibber I believe him to be - it looks like you are down to praying the EU refuse an extension ? ...

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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2280 on: October 08, 2019, 02:44:04 PM »

Silly BillyB

Being told something doesn't mean the situation is 'right' or 'fair' ..

I have addressed your question re the non-binding Brexit referendum, before and repeating the question simply proves you read selectively or are inattentive - or both


Trench,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49970267


Brexit: Deal 'essentially impossible' after PM-Merkel call


so when is Boris going to send the letter asking for an extension...?

The Court of Sessions accepts his assurance that he will comply with the 'Ben Bill'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49959167

"Lord Pentland said there could be "no doubt" that the prime minister had agreed to abide by the law.

As a result, he said there was no need for "coercive orders" against the UK government or against the prime minister.

And he said it would be "destructive of one of the core principles of constitutional propriety and of the mutual trust that is the bedrock of the relationship between the court and the Crown" if Mr Johnson reneged on his assurances to the court."


So, unless Boris is the fibber I believe him to be - it looks like you are down to praying the EU refuse an extension ? ...

Well we're perouging till the 14th Oct now so all the court cases over that achieved little seeing that Remoaners achieved little in that time.

The Court of Sessions has essentially given Boris room to move and I believe he will take it. He will do all in his power to make sure we are out in the 31st Oct. He knows the future doesn not look very bright for him or the Tory Party if he does not.

I am eagerly awaiting for No Deal Brexit on the 31st to happen :D
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2281 on: October 08, 2019, 08:42:29 PM »
Trench,

I can't, for the life of me, imagine why you are happy about a no-deal Brexit.   Wouldn't it be better for the UK if things were worked out in advance and there was actually a plan put in place?   Crashing out of the EU only cements the huge wedge currently dividing your country.

Please, tell the forum why you think a no-deal Brexit is more favorable than a deal which attempts to mollify a greater number of the people.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2282 on: October 08, 2019, 10:07:06 PM »
Please, tell the forum why you think a no-deal Brexit is more favorable than a deal which attempts to mollify a greater number of the people.

My thoughts....Dragging things on too long is tearing the UK apart. Some are intentionally dragging this on by pretending they are holding off Brexit for the best deal possible when in fact they donít want any progress to happen.  Making a deal triggers Brexit. Itís been three years. Itís time to move on.  Best to just leave without a deal now so people can live their lives according minus this nightmare and nations can make deals later.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2283 on: October 09, 2019, 01:16:44 AM »
Well, Silly BillyB and Trench have just demonstrated..as usual their incapacity to think, period.

Trench, the Court of Sessions have said that they trust the Prime Minister to respect the Benn Act, following the govt's submission.

If Boris still tried to circumvent the Benn Act and did not ask for a delay in a timely fashion...The Court WILL do it for him.




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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2284 on: October 09, 2019, 03:25:46 AM »
Well, Silly BillyB and Trench have just demonstrated..as usual their incapacity to think, period.

Trench, the Court of Sessions have said that they trust the Prime Minister to respect the Benn Act, following the govt's submission.

If Boris still tried to circumvent the Benn Act and did not ask for a delay in a timely fashion...The Court WILL do it for him.

Theoretically, but where it becomes a grey area, where it becomes debatable, etc, etc it will be more a subjective matter and questionable whether the court will actually do much.

Odds are Boris will in some way circumvent the Surrender Act and the Court of Sessions will just pass a damning judgement on him without any actual action, a bit like Blair with the 'was it a legal act to invade Iraq'.

After Brexit and any General Election odds are Boris will have the clout to reverse any actions of consequence against him, being PM. I think the big thing on Boris's side is that he is fullfilling the democratic mandate the people instructed the gov to fullfill from the 2016 Referendum. That and he has been blocked from holding a General Election twice and the opposition won't call a vote of no confidence though it is clear they could do and likely win tat vote.

Furthermore, Boris has advanced a deal that looks certain it will be turned down by the EU, and that there is little point continuing so it's in the best interest of the country to leave as the matter has run its course and a decision needs to be taken. Theresa May's EU Deal has been voted down three times and rejected on a resurrection attempt and the EU won't accept any other alternative to the backstop that Parliament and the people won't accept.

I think in the end the courts won't have I interest in taking action on Boris for a problem that has run its course. I'm pretty sure come the 31st October it will be all over for you Remoaners Mobe ;)
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2285 on: October 09, 2019, 03:47:52 AM »
Trench,

I can't, for the life of me, imagine why you are happy about a no-deal Brexit.   Wouldn't it be better for the UK if things were worked out in advance and there was actually a plan put in place?   Crashing out of the EU only cements the huge wedge currently dividing your country.

Please, tell the forum why you think a no-deal Brexit is more favorable than a deal which attempts to mollify a greater number of the people.

Well for one we won't be paying around £9bn a year to the EU in membership fees. All Western European nations get hit with this and most of that money finds its way to doing up Eastern Europe - the EU's pet project that we are paying for. That means the UK government finances and constantly being burdened down and makes it difficult for us to pay down our debt and fund projects in our country - both are crucial for a country's economic development.

Our NHS, councils, police force, etc are all underfunded. Infrastructure projects get put on hold. This has had a very damaging affect on the UK economy and way of life. Meanwhile, our money goes to Poland etc and they benefit from it where instead British people should have been. We are essentially being used as mugs. The first few years of doing this it might be understandable, but after 10 years it's really starting to take the pee, all the while British people suffer for it. We see very little in terms of economic return to the UK for this action either, at least the everyday person on the street doesn't.

Contrast that with the great opportunities that are open to the UK when we leave the EU. We can make deals independently with whatever nation we wish to. That can mean we can choose arrangements that better suit our needs rather than be forced to go along with whatever the EU decides that might not be good for our nation. Like BillyB says we can reach agreements with the EU after we leave in easily agreeable areas. The NI border will have to be a hard one and that's the most practical way forward in spite of previous peace agreements, it's just the way it is.

I personally think that I et time other countries may leave the EU and we will firm a new Free Trade Zone which will be cheap to administer and restrict itself to being just that with a few fringe benefits. Just how the EU used to be before it changed. More like how it was back in the old EC, EEC days.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2286 on: October 09, 2019, 04:25:19 AM »
The Deal is Dead, The Deal is Dead, Long Live the Deal.

Considering the Johnson tantrum and no deal no Brexit mandate, the EU will offer a longer extension and UK can't refuse.

Don't see any way around it.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2287 on: October 09, 2019, 04:39:07 AM »
Trench, EU membership costs you £1 a week and the benefits outweigh the negatives.

You KNOW the average EU citizen pays £2400 more in tax per year...to UK PLC

We have had a £150 Billion tax hole in govt tax receipts alone...due to this 'wet dream' and associated uncertainties.

Most of your 'pro Brexit' notions are based on daft and Bollox assertions.

Now you suggest that Boris might crash out out by 'lying' ...?

With every post your desperation gets more apparent.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2288 on: October 09, 2019, 05:01:17 AM »
I wonder if May feels vindicated by all this turmoil.  After all she did get the only deal that BJ hasn't been able to beat and now cries that a deal is not possible at all.

Anyway, I hope the UK comes to its senses soon. 

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2289 on: October 09, 2019, 05:04:16 AM »
Trench,

The inner court of the Scots house of sessions will reserve judgement on Boris' actions / inactions re the Benn Act until 21st October...leaving more than enough time to pp the letter asking for an extension.

http://goodlawproject.org/nobile-officium-cases-way-forward/

Aka #NoboffBoris..)
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2290 on: October 09, 2019, 11:16:06 AM »
The UK is headed for a constitutional crisis.  Too bad that there was never a 'paper' constitution put in place.  A modern day Magna Carta, so to speak.   I think Her Majesty is going to have to fire BJ.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2291 on: October 09, 2019, 11:37:46 AM »
The UK is headed for a constitutional crisis.  Too bad that there was never a 'paper' constitution put in place.  A modern day Magna Carta, so to speak.   I think Her Majesty is going to have to fire BJ.

Similar political gaming is causing constitutional crisis on both sides of the Atlantic.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2292 on: October 09, 2019, 11:44:45 AM »
Amen.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2293 on: October 09, 2019, 12:04:39 PM »
The UK is headed for a constitutional crisis.  Too bad that there was never a 'paper' constitution put in place.  A modern day Magna Carta, so to speak.   I think Her Majesty is going to have to fire BJ.

There you go, AGAIN.. We already have had constitutional crises

There are those that tried to involve HM.

I think not.


Where DO you read this stuff, Jone )

Parliament can fire BJ..

I think that he will blame his failure on 'nasty' MPs..

Mugs like Trench will 'lap it up'...

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2294 on: October 10, 2019, 05:52:22 PM »
The UK is headed for a constitutional crisis.  Too bad that there was never a 'paper' constitution put in place.  A modern day Magna Carta, so to speak.   I think Her Majesty is going to have to fire BJ.

Problem is a lot of MP's and PM's who think how a country should be run, how things should be done, who think they are intelligent are often not as skilled as they think they are for the job of creating constitutional matters.

The Fixed Term Parliament Act for example is a cock up as can be seen by the present circumstance where the opposition can hold a minority government in power and run the government by proxy effectively turning it almost into a puppet government. A government that can't hang up the reigns of power and call a General Election. Now normally in most democratic countries it's normally a given that the Government hold that power to use at will. Under the old unwritten convention a ruling government could hold a General Election as and when they choosed within a five year period. Never was there a problem with that, only when it was decided for it written out was there be a problem.

On another front problems have arisen as a result of devolution, Tony Blair's pet project. In Scotland division has increased but aside from that there is the issue of separate laws between the regions as you cross the border. This has led to more complexity than is helpful on may fronts. Disagreements between Parliaments also cause problems while the issue that the UK gov funds the generosity of the Scottish or Welsh policies is another issue. Constitutionally there are issues over Scottish MP's having a say over matters in England. All in all its a bit of a mess, much of it the ill-concieved notions and ego driven nature of Blair.

The only part I believe that does work of devolution is the ability for a region to be organised and administered regionally which I believe to be more effective and it certainly seems to work well. As far as legislating regionally though it is a complete mess and that should have never been part of the constitutional change. If anything the Welsh Assembly works more effectively in co-operating with the UK government than the Scottish Parliament but even then it's ability to legislate at a significant level causes problems. Having a regional representation is a good idea but it's deployment in terms of UK devolution and ability to legislate separately of the UK gov on most areas is making a real problem situation. So it really shows how changes to the constitution on the hoof can cause the country to run worse not better.

Many of the opposition's moves have wrongly been supported by a House Speaker biased towards Remain when he should have gone with Constitutional convention.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2295 on: Yesterday at 09:04:17 AM »
Trench,

It is just as well the site has been down most of the weekend, lest your  BIZARRE viewpoints were 'accepted' by a passing viewer.

1/ This govt has been a minority govt since it was created by the folly of Mrs May seeking an affirmation of her Brexit Policy  - the Tories HAD a majority and she lost it  - having to bribe the DUP to get legislation through

2/ The Speaker was / is not 'biased' - he has ensured things are debated that the govt sought to bury  / stymie


3/ the ONLY reason the 'puppet govt' is still ( notionally) in charge is because of the time factor - we have seen the PM try to 'suspend' Parliament and he cannot be allowed to set dates for elections ( as he can change them)


The current situation is that Boris has woken up to the fact that he is boxed in and is now desperately trying to achieve a deal - as he has told us " we are leaving on Oct 31st "

The only way we'll be leaving is with a deal - and Boris has still to realise what that entails ..


a) rights for EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens abroad

b) ability  for biz to carry on with minimal paperwork - Nissan and Airbus really couldn't make it more clear as to the consequences for Britain in a 'no deal' scenario - or one with delays

3) Freedom of movement at between the Ireland's for goods and people

Your predictions are falling apart ... 
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2296 on: Yesterday at 03:12:21 PM »
Trench,

It is just as well the site has been down most of the weekend, lest your  BIZARRE viewpoints were 'accepted' by a passing viewer.

1/ This govt has been a minority govt since it was created by the folly of Mrs May seeking an affirmation of her Brexit Policy  - the Tories HAD a majority and she lost it  - having to bribe the DUP to get legislation through

2/ The Speaker was / is not 'biased' - he has ensured things are debated that the govt sought to bury  / stymie


3/ the ONLY reason the 'puppet govt' is still ( notionally) in charge is because of the time factor - we have seen the PM try to 'suspend' Parliament and he cannot be allowed to set dates for elections ( as he can change them)


The current situation is that Boris has woken up to the fact that he is boxed in and is now desperately trying to achieve a deal - as he has told us " we are leaving on Oct 31st "

The only way we'll be leaving is with a deal - and Boris has still to realise what that entails ..


a) rights for EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens abroad

b) ability  for biz to carry on with minimal paperwork - Nissan and Airbus really couldn't make it more clear as to the consequences for Britain in a 'no deal' scenario - or one with delays

3) Freedom of movement at between the Ireland's for goods and people

Your predictions are falling apart ...

You mean we got a well earned break from your Remoaning, lol

Deal or No Deal, Boris knows he has to leave on the 31st October. Doesn't really bother me too much either way so long as Brexit is achieved and we don't agree to being a vassal state of the EU as under the backstop arrangement.

My thoughts are that the DUP have either been told that it's a deal with customs checks down the Irish sea or a hard border in NI with a no deal. On the other hand Boris might have just decided to stuff the DUP, it's clear he can remain as PM without their help as the opposition can't get it together in a vote of no confidence. Today the SNP has made an independence vote the condition for one which Labour will not agree to so even that avenue has fallen apart.

Effectively this means Boris can follow down a path the DUP don't agree with but the opposition might. Namely customs checks down the Irish sea border. The DUP won't like it but they cannot now pull the rug from under anyone.

That said previous negotiations have not amounted to anything and I'm doubtful if these will. Boris may also lack the numbers in Parliament as although he will likely get the support of his party it's likely he will need to get enough of Labour onboard, but with the 31st now just two weeks away it might push some into it. Depends of course on what comes forth, if there are any clangers in there like the backstop it won't be happening.

Either way you won't be getting what you wanted Mobe ;)
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2297 on: Yesterday at 08:14:28 PM »
Once again, Trench proves he doesn't 'get' the situation Boris faces.

Sure, Muppets like you fell for his bravado, instead of noting that he was simply making himself weaker that than Mrs May.

He has wound up too many MPs to get any deal through Parliament and the EU know it.

Now, you tell us you will be happy just to 'leave', but I told the members that we would not leave without a deal, if at all in March and it will be the same in October.


IF we 'left' things would have to stay the same while negotiations and systems are put in place.

The adverts on TV to get 'ready for Brexit' are a waste of taxpayers money.

You were wrong last time..

I cannot see Boris pulling Rabbits from the hat anytime, soon.

Any 'trick' will fail and his 'fans' will see him for what he is...


Full of...

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2298 on: Today at 01:43:38 AM »
Once again, Trench proves he doesn't 'get' the situation Boris faces.

Sure, Muppets like you fell for his bravado, instead of noting that he was simply making himself weaker that than Mrs May.

He has wound up too many MPs to get any deal through Parliament and the EU know it.

Now, you tell us you will be happy just to 'leave', but I told the members that we would not leave without a deal, if at all in March and it will be the same in October.


IF we 'left' things would have to stay the same while negotiations and systems are put in place.

The adverts on TV to get 'ready for Brexit' are a waste of taxpayers money.

You were wrong last time..

I cannot see Boris pulling Rabbits from the hat anytime, soon.

Any 'trick' will fail and his 'fans' will see him for what he is...


Full of...

It? Lol.

Mobe you should listen to those adverts they are telling you what you need to do to prepare for Brexit. I would hate for you to be caught out and find yourself in an awkward predicament at the NI border ;D

Brexit is a reality and it is coming whether you like it or not Mobers!
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline BC

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #2299 on: Today at 07:41:04 AM »

Brexit is a reality and it is coming whether you like it or not Mobers!

Have you shifted the goalpost Trench?

Brexit with May's deal is ok now?  Obviously there is no other 'deal' on the table.

 

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