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Author Topic: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?  (Read 234499 times)

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Online Rosco

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3075 on: September 15, 2020, 06:56:55 AM »
Rosco,
 The UK lost.

Lol. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Let's try to stick to my legal points.

First of all, you along with some other individuals have been triggered by yet another Brexit fiasco. It's about being disruptive, unsupportive and causing more problems for a government you don't want. It's an emotional reaction rather than a logical one.

The bill is designed to allow goods and services to freely flow across the 4 countries in the UK, once we leave the Eu single market on Jan 1st. It also gives the government a failsafe mechanism in case the EU yet again decide to be disruptive and unreasonable in any way i.e push for a hard border in Ireland for example.

This prevents the EU from playing dirty, as they have done on many occasion and using Norther Ireland as leverage in any trade negotiations. The powers being brought in are to safe guard the UK and its people.

Unfortunately there are people like yourself who actually love the EU more than the UK and you would happily see us strung up with eternal EU bureaucracy. This is why the Government has done whats its done. Now onto the legal bit. From what I've read it may well be illegal in name only and plenty bluster and tears from opposition but they can do as they wish.....with or without your approval. Threats of damaged reputations will long be forgotten about and this is simply a negotiating tool.

Yet another storm in a tea cup, created by the remoaners and the traitors and there will be plenty foamy mouths and tears over the coming weeks. But for the normal people out there, its about putting measures in place to safe guard our integrity once we get to final negotiations.

I appreciate that you would prefer the UK to be entangled forever in EU rules and you would rather see the EU stitch the UK up with a bad deal. You championed the opposition when they tried to get no deal off the table and weaken our negotiating position before it even started so why anyone would listen to your opinion now is beyond me.

Let's hope the bill stays in place, we weather the criticism and negotiate a fair deal with the EU.....which would have been done long ago without the idiots meddling in the middle at every turn. Life goes on, with or without being tied to a trading block and the most important people in all of this are the people, not the politicians.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 07:01:36 AM by Rosco »

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3076 on: September 15, 2020, 07:30:18 AM »
Lol. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Your sense of patriotic denial is praiseworthy.

Facts: 1/ care to  deal with with my point that the GBP fell against all currencies when the latest Boris  stunt was announced?

2/ tell us about major foreign jobs and factories being opened to replace those lost in the last three years?

3/ tell us about the trade deals made with major players?





.


you along with some other individuals have been triggered by yet another Brexit fiasco. It's about being disruptive, unsupportive and causing more problems for a government you don't want. It's an emotional reaction rather than a logical one.

Ah yes, the five last PMs.. THREE of which who are Tories )))


The bill is designed to allow goods and services to freely flow across the 4 countries in the UK, once we leave the Eu single market on Jan 1st. It also gives the government a failsafe mechanism in case the EU yet again decide to be disruptive and unreasonable in any way i.e push for a hard border in Ireland for example.

Er, sorry...

Boris has already signed up to the treaty which was his way of maintaining a frictionless border between the Ireland.

It's a binding treaty....I did tell you that it was a terrible deal.

Boris told Theresa May her deal was bad and agreed to a v.similar deal.

So, are you going to get around  to the legality of the Bill, given the signed treaty?





This prevents the EU from playing dirty, as they have done on many occasion and using Norther Ireland as leverage in any trade negotiations. The powers being brought in are to safe guard the UK and its people.

Unfortunately there are people like yourself who actually love the EU more than the UK and you would happily see us strung up with eternal EU bureaucracy. This is why the Government has done whats its done. Now onto the legal bit. From what I've read it may well be illegal in name only and plenty bluster and tears from opposition but they can do as they wish.....with or without your approval. Threats of damaged reputations will long be forgotten about and this is simply a negotiating tool.

Yet another storm in a tea cup, created by the remoaners and the traitors and there will be plenty foamy mouths and tears over the coming weeks. But for the normal people out there, its about putting measures in place to safe guard our integrity once we get to final negotiations.

I appreciate that you would prefer the UK to be entangled forever in EU rules and you would rather see the EU stitch the UK up with a bad deal. You championed the opposition when they tried to get no deal off the table and weaken our negotiating position before it even started so why anyone would listen to your opinion now is beyond me.

Let's hope the bill stays in place, we weather the criticism and negotiate a fair deal with the EU.....which would have been done long ago without the idiots meddling in the middle at every turn. Life goes on, with or without being tied to a trading block and the most important people in all of this are the people, not the politicians.

It WILL result in legal cases that the govt WILL lose and is merely a very poor attempt at portraying the EU as the 'deal breakers'...


What ever happened to the 'oven ready deal'?

Please, once again, try to stick to legalities.


Online Rosco

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3077 on: September 15, 2020, 07:53:38 AM »
Facts: 1/ care to  deal with with my point that the GBP fell against all currencies when the latest Boris  stunt was announced?

2/ tell us about major foreign jobs and factories being opened to replace those lost in the last three years?

3/ tell us about the trade deals made with major players?

So...to answer your first 3 points above, I'll give you the same answers that so many people have given you many, many times before. The UK is in a period of transition, we've yet to fully leave and the outcomes aren't yet known. Look we're now starting to argue over silly stuff again. Once this settles down we'll see the pound bounce back and the markets shift.

All this uncertainty caused by a difficult EU and then the remain faction who wouldn't accept democracy, caused a period of uncertainty. If you knew anything about markets, you'd realise that once stability arrives to a large economy, the market always bounces back. It's not difficult stuff Moby but you just cant accept reality.

Er, sorry...

Boris has already signed up to the treaty which was his way of maintaining a frictionless border between the Ireland.

It's a binding treaty....I did tell you that it was a terrible deal.

Boris told Theresa May her deal was bad and agreed to a v.similar deal.

So, are you going to get around  to the legality of the Bill, given the signed treaty?

Er sorry, it appears as though we can indeed renege on said treaty, much to the disappointment of you. Even the most vocal critics are now saying that it would damage reputations as opposed to being irreversible. Look at the wording closely Moby because this is my point.

It WILL result in legal cases that the govt WILL lose and is merely a very poor attempt at portraying the EU as the 'deal breakers'...

What ever happened to the 'oven ready deal'?

Please, once again, try to stick to legalities.


In politics anything can happen Moby so I'm not 100% convinced about any future outcome but from what I have read, the UK Government can do as they are doing now and it will be your lot who try to lay yet more obstacles in the way, casting the government as the bad guys. In reality the government is doing what good government do and thats looking after its own people - a foreign concept for people like you.

So lets get back to what we know;

You hope it will result in long, protracted legal cases and you hope it gets stopped because it will represent a small victory for the remainers who have lost every vote and every election on every occasion.

In closing, you may get your wish but none of this is how you think it is.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 08:40:20 AM by AnonMod »

Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3078 on: September 15, 2020, 10:51:59 AM »
So...to answer your first 3 points above, I'll give you the same answers that so many people have given you many, many times before. The UK is in a period of transition, we've yet to fully leave and the outcomes aren't yet known. Look we're now starting to argue over silly stuff again. Once this settles down we'll see the pound bounce back and the markets shift.

That was a response devoid of any legal 'riposte' .. The treaty to ensure the frictionless border trade in the Irelands is signed... it's done and dusted .. The UK cannot go back on it, from a legal perspective.. period .. It will lose in any Court


All this uncertainty caused by a difficult EU

 The UK signed a treaty ..this Bill seeks to undermine a legally binding international agreement ...there's your 'instability' and the GBP falling as a consequence.


and then the remain faction who wouldn't accept democracy, caused a period of uncertainty. If you knew anything about markets, you'd realise that once stability arrives to a large economy, the market always bounces back. It's not difficult stuff Moby but you just cant accept reality.

Democracies don't agree to deals and sign them, making them legally binding and then try to introduce legislation that breaks said treaty

Er sorry, it appears as though we can indeed renege on said treaty, much to the disappointment of you. Even the most vocal critics are now saying that it would damage reputations as opposed to being irreversible. Look at the wording closely Moby because this is my point.

Tell us, from a LEGAL perspective what'leg'the UK govt is 'standing on ', other than hoping such a stance will work with disgruntled voters who want 'Brexit done'..?  Those who have a clue, realise that it was 'doe' on the basis of the treaty ..

In politics anything can happen Moby so I'm not 100% convinced about any future outcome but from what I have read, the UK Government can do as they are doing now and it will be your lot who try to lay yet more obstacles in the way, casting the government as the bad guys. In reality the government is doing what good government do and thats looking after its own people - a foreign concept for people like you.

On t'other hand, Rosco ... I'm ONE HUNDRED percent the UK govt aren't behaving legally or rationally and they are NOT acting in the best interests of the majority in N.Ireland

So lets get back to what we know;

So far, you have proved you KNOW very little from the most important perspective.. the LEGAL one .. Many, many pro Brexit MPs will vote against ultimate readings and seek amendments


Do you know how your MP voted and why ?  I DO ... She seems to suggest that her 'initial support' is subject to the govt compromising to amendments ...  I thought that was BS ... btw


You hope it will result in long, protracted legal cases and you hope it gets stopped because it will represent a small victory for the remainers who have lost every vote and every election on every occasion.

No, and you are proving you simply do not understand

*I* seek stability - not this 'last minute stunt' ...  it is the stunt that will mean instability and legal cases

In closing, you may get your wish but none of this is how you think it is.

If you meant' none' - including Justices in say the Supreme Court, the majority in Scotland or N.Ireland and any ody ruling on the treaty ... you will understand the utter incredulity of your words ..

You KNOW I'm right ...the Bill, as is, is a legal disaster .. period

Boris and Cummings are hoping to crash ous out of the EU... there was never an 'oven ready deal'


IF that  happens why should ANY nation regard a treaty with the UK is valid ...  ?

You think 'Trampu' will be able to carry any US trade agreement ?   The 'Irish' American voter's will never support him supporting Boris
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 11:17:12 AM by AnonMod »

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3079 on: September 15, 2020, 11:55:46 AM »
Er sorry, it appears as though we can indeed renege on said treaty, much to the disappointment of you. Even the most vocal critics are now saying that it would damage reputations as opposed to being irreversible. Look at the wording closely Moby because this is my point.


From a legal perspective, no, the UK cannot just unilaterally withdraw from an international treaty.  That is why treaty ratification is such a drawn out process most of the time.  However, treaties have no impact on domestic law.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Online Rosco

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3080 on: September 15, 2020, 12:23:15 PM »
Pointless wasting e-ink debating someoneís feelings so letís just wait and see.

Not a peep about France or Germany breaking international law either but that wasnít about Brexit so letís shuffle along. And going by the reports, the EU are breaking them as we speak by making it impossible to secure a deal whilst remaining independent.

Is this just a threat to show the negotiators how far the U.K. is willing to go or will the government go through with it, weíll just have to wait and see? What it has done is out the continually outraged losers who would rather submit to a foreign entity than see the U.K. get a fair deal.

I suspect Moby has his own selfish reasons for wanting to remain tied to the EU.

Online Rosco

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3081 on: September 15, 2020, 12:37:23 PM »
Some examples of where the EU has itself broken international law and in practice because of sovereignty, any state can purport to withdraw from any treaty at any time and cease to abide by its terms. Itís literally a law.

http://facts4eu.org/news/2020_sep_eu_in_default

As I said before, we wouldnít be here now if the EU hadnít been playing silly games and acting all innocent. Their only leverage is crying wolf, knowing that a vocal minority of left wingers will cause mayhem. If the U.K. leaves and thrives, their club will fall apart so they canít let us leave without a shafting.

Any government who does whatís necessary to look after its own gets my vote but I realise others arenít always so loyal.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3082 on: September 15, 2020, 12:39:51 PM »
That is a different matter, Rosco.  Countries routinely fail to comply with international treaties because they interpret particular clauses differently.  WTO disputes is a prime example.  Countries go before tribunals to comply with treaty provisions they interpret differently, and abide by the tribunal's final decision.  That is a far cry from deciding to break a treaty knowingly, for political purposes.

Here's the EU-UK Withdrawal Treaty.  Which clauses has the EU breached?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1580206007232&uri=CELEX%3A12019W/TXT%2802%29

Google was used to find the above treaty.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 02:02:52 PM by Boethius »
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Online msmob

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3083 on: September 15, 2020, 12:54:51 PM »

As I said before, we wouldnít be here now if the EU hadnít been playing silly games and acting all innocent. Their only leverage is crying wolf, knowing that a vocal minority of left wingers will cause mayhem. If the U.K. leaves and thrives, their club will fall apart so they canít let us leave without a shafting.

Already busted.. and if you persist, you'll see how wrong you were wrong from a legal and cost to UK perspective

Any government who does whatís necessary to look after its own gets my vote but I realise others arenít always so loyal.

You're not even remotely correct on this point .... you made claims on behalf of UK residents.. it effects N.Ireland the most


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3084 on: September 15, 2020, 02:04:05 PM »
That is a different matter, Rosco.  Countries routinely fail to comply with international treaties because they interpret particular clauses differently.  WHO disputes is a prime example.  Countries go before tribunals to comply with treaty provisions they interpret differently, and abide by the tribunal's final decision.  That is a far cry from deciding to break a treaty knowingly, for political purposes.

Here's the EU-UK Withdrawal Treaty.  Which clauses has the EU breached?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1580206007232&uri=CELEX%3A12019W/TXT%2802%29

Google was used to find the above treaty.

If I find time tomorrow iíll read through and give you my opinion. I still maintain, watch this space because it could go either way. Thereís plenty articles out there in the neutral mainstream with credible political journalists to back that up. Iíve linked sky because theyíre not pro Brexit.

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-peers-warned-not-to-block-internal-market-bill-as-uk-branded-despot-like-north-korea-12072780

Moby, youíve busted nothing but more blood vessels with this one Iím afraid and Iíve already mentioned NI. Not sure what point youíre trying to make? This one is simmering nicely and is probably part of the negotiation dance. Think of it as a, if you do this, weíll do that so stand down, scenario.

Iím not making bold claims unlike you but I am realistic enough to see that this government could do, that what upsets you so much. None of the critics both at home or abroad have said the UK canít override the agreement, theyíre saying itís morally bankrupt and damaging to our reputation.

Those clever enough to understand this are then divided as to whether itís right or wrong and itíll be unsurprisingly split evenly with remoaners & brexiteers.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3085 on: September 15, 2020, 02:46:58 PM »
SKY were owned by the Murdock Group and that group were most certainly vociferous in being pro 'Brexit'

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/forget-bbc-brexit-bias-it-is-even-worse-on-sky-sunrise-1-5514104

Rosco can dig up an article from the Express - truly biased to Brexit - where SKY are accused of being biased to 'remain' because they interviewed two Tory remainers ...  No Tory 'leave' would come on the show


Talk of 'bias' re the BBC and SKY either way is a joke ..if you actually analyse the coverage

Edited to add:  The PM doesn't know his own proposed legislation


 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 03:06:59 PM by AnonMod »

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3086 on: September 15, 2020, 04:09:21 PM »
If I find time tomorrow iíll read through and give you my opinion. I still maintain, watch this space because it could go either way. Thereís plenty articles out there in the neutral mainstream with credible political journalists to back that up. Iíve linked sky because theyíre not pro Brexit.

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-peers-warned-not-to-block-internal-market-bill-as-uk-branded-despot-like-north-korea-12072780

I haven't read the bill referred to in your link, however from the article, it seems that bill is domestic legislation which apparently impacts UK treaty obligations.

As I noted, the UK can pass any domestic legislation it wishes.  If domestic legislation impacts existing treaty obligations, which, from the article, seems to be the case, there either is a mechanism to deal with that internationally, or, as it appears here, there isn't and the government passing such legislation is deemed to not adhere to the rule of law.  In the latter case, it is a slippery slope.  If the UK unilaterally abrogates its international obligations, it will be seen as not trustworthy.  It will be viewed by other nations as a country which does not abide by the rule of law.  What is the use of spending years negotiating, say, a trade deal, with the UK if it will just pass domestic legislation it wishes and ignore its treaty obligations?  Furthermore, what moral authority will the UK have in dealing with, say, China, on human rights issues, when China can point to the UK as a country which fails to live up to its own treaty obligations?

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 04:25:13 PM by Boethius »
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3087 on: September 16, 2020, 05:12:28 AM »
It will be viewed by other nations as a country which does not abide by the rule of law.  What is the use of spending years negotiating, say, a trade deal, with the UK if it will just pass domestic legislation it wishes and ignore its treaty obligations?  Furthermore, what moral authority will the UK have in dealing with, say, China, on human rights issues, when China can point to the UK as a country which fails to live up to its own treaty obligations?

This post was composed without the aid of google.

I agree that its not exactly a political performance to be proud of and fierce critics have already compared the UK to North Korea, China and Russia. I think that's dramatic and that this scenario is unlikely to even happen but this is only one move in a whole series of dirty political moves from all sides. The opposition had kittens when the UK wanted to take the no deal card to the table for a stronger negotiating position and if you read on I'll explain why this is no different.

If the UK Government played by the code of honour, the minority remoaner opposition and the EU would have taken advantage of that and eaten us for breakfast. They've been deplorable throughout all of this. Yes I wish the whole thing had been cleaner, quicker and better for everyone. I wish that the first deal had been oven ready but with an unprecedented political divorce where nobody is willing to give an inch, unexpected things will cause complications. It would be terribly naive for anyone to think otherwise but it gives them oxygen for more opposition.

The reality of the situation is exactly as Sir Ian Duncan Smith has put it.

"In regard to breaking international law, the EU has phenomenal track-record for breaking international law. It's not implanted any of the WTO rulings which are supposed to have direct effect, they simply brush them aside."

"The truth is the real point about this is one; the EU is threatening to say to us 'we might just say no you don't have the right to sell your goods' and two; the big important internal matter is by doing that is they would force us to cut ourselves off from Northern Ireland with full tariff checks."

"The act of union makes it absolutely clear that all parts of the UK can never have any tariffs or barriers between them. This would breach our very domestic and vital constitutional laws."

"The Government is right to say to the EU, 'if you decide to not come to the joint committee and get rid of this threat, we will have in our back pocket legislation which says this withdrawal agreement has failed and we're going our own way'.We need to tell the EU they cannot go on trying to bully us, we are a sovereign nation now."

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1335878/brexit-news-iain-duncan-smith-EU-bill-latest-update-boris-johnson-withdrawal-agreement

The final paragraph is the key bit here and the overreaction of the EU and remoaner camp has escalated the situation beyond what is normal. I said yesterday that this is simply part of the dance and as a leave supporter, I believe that these tactics make it clear that the UK wont be bullied on this. As a citizen I would expect my government to do nothing less.

If the EU play dirty then so will we. If the EU remove this threat then we can all go back to being friends - it's as simple as that.

Finally, when this is all dead and buried, I don't think any country will view the UK as a North Korea or Russia. This is simply nonsense that's been exaggerated out of context for dramatic effect. It's a pinch point for opposition to foam over and nothing more. They're getting upset at a card the UK may never even use and in realty they want the UK to fail against the EU - madness!

My POV of course but none of there above is wrong, you may just disagree.


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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3088 on: September 16, 2020, 06:41:51 AM »
'Fierce critics'....only former Conservative Party leaders and former PMs, the former Attorney General and right of centre senior Justices from the UK Supreme Court.

They may know a little more intl.treaties than you or I.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3089 on: September 16, 2020, 06:54:38 AM »
'Fierce critics'....only former Conservative Party leaders and former PMs, the former Attorney General and right of centre senior Justices from the UK Supreme Court.

They may know a little more intl.treaties than you or I.

Agreed but opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one. Those agreeing with the governments stance also know more than you or I. Brexit is divisive as are many polarised topics so I don't expect everyone to be on the same page.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3090 on: September 16, 2020, 09:51:39 AM »
Agreed but opinions are like arseholes, we've all got one. Those agreeing with the governments stance also know more than you or I. Brexit is divisive as are many polarised topics so I don't expect everyone to be on the same page.

We are talking about the last THREE Tory PMs, the last Attorney Gen and many more .. VERY specific

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3091 on: September 17, 2020, 02:50:27 AM »
Added to the list..

The Scottish Advocate Gen. has now resigned..

That's a lot of former Tory MPs and now Scotland's govt chief law maker, resigning in protest re the illegality of Boris' stunt...

This is NOT about not leaving...it is about the principle of sticking to agreements ( which I warned was silly and contravened Boris' 'promise' to the DUP, at their party conf. in Nov'18.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18726019.pm-accepts-resignation-scotlands-advocate-general-lord-keen/



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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3092 on: September 17, 2020, 03:14:39 PM »
Added to the list..

The Scottish Advocate Gen. has now resigned..

That's a lot of former Tory MPs and now Scotland's govt chief law maker, resigning in protest re the illegality of Boris' stunt...

This is NOT about not leaving...it is about the principle of sticking to agreements ( which I warned was silly and contravened Boris' 'promise' to the DUP, at their party conf. in Nov'18.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18726019.pm-accepts-resignation-scotlands-advocate-general-lord-keen/

For the love of God Mobers we are a Sovereign nation, if an agreement no longer suits us we have the right to cease that agreement.

In this case the UK's status changed as it left the EU, a democratic mandate could not be ignored so of course that would affect the agreements the UK had made in the past, the UK did not decide out of impulse just to cease all or parts of these previous agreements. In other words it's a case of Force Majeure.

Ex remoan PM's and others can come out all they like and remoan about it but Boris has the strength in numbers to win this quite handily. Whatever happens we won't be bowing down to the EU.
No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

Offline Boethius

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3093 on: September 17, 2020, 03:42:39 PM »
Quote
For the love of God Mobers we are a Sovereign nation, if an agreement no longer suits us we have the right to cease that agreement.

True, but with treaties, there are formal withdrawal procedures.  They are independent of a nation's domestic legislation.  So, the UK still has to rely on international treaties (such as the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties) to withdraw from a signed treaty.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3094 on: September 17, 2020, 03:44:31 PM »
For the love of God Mobers we are a Sovereign nation, if an agreement no longer suits us we have the right to cease that agreement.


That's an excellent point. Well said. No sovereign nation is subjected to other nations, or union, regulations once the union is severed. Technically, a treaty is a contract between two nations. It is not a legislative act. When that contract is severed, no other regulations within that contract obligation prevails over the sovereignty, or legislation thereof, of that nation.

Quote
In this case the UK's status changed as it left the EU, a democratic mandate could not be ignored so of course that would affect the agreements the UK had made in the past, the UK did not decide out of impulse just to cease all or parts of these previous agreements. In other words it's a case of Force Majeure.

Ex remoan PM's and others can come out all they like and remoan about it but Boris has the strength in numbers to win this quite handily. Whatever happens we won't be bowing down to the EU.


Boris has the backing of the majority to leave the EU. Any dissent to this reality is inconsequential, if not irrelevant altogether. Move on UK!!!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:52:01 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3095 on: September 17, 2020, 08:15:03 PM »

That's an excellent point. Well said. No sovereign nation is subjected to other nations, or union, regulations once the union is severed. Technically, a treaty is a contract between two nations. It is not a legislative act. When that contract is severed, no other regulations within that contract obligation prevails over the sovereignty, or legislation thereof, of that nation.

Boris has the backing of the majority to leave the EU. Any dissent to this reality is inconsequential, if not irrelevant altogether. Move on UK!!!

While not an area that I have much expertise, I suspect the fundamental argument is flawed. If the president of Timbukto agrees and signs a treaty with Monarch of SillyWilly and both legislative bodies approve/ratify said treaty. Than it will be hard to break. In the past though this has indeed happened.

Two interesting accords or treaties was The Paris Agreement on Climate Change. They were never ratified by the US Senate, so it was easy to abandon them under the Trump administration. It would be very hard for any signatory nation to negate the Montreux Treaty. 
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3096 on: September 17, 2020, 08:37:56 PM »
While not an area that I have much expertise, I suspect the fundamental argument is flawed. If the president of Timbukto agrees and signs a treaty with Monarch of SillyWilly and both legislative bodies approve/ratify said treaty. Than it will be hard to break. In the past though this has indeed happened.

Two interesting accords or treaties was The Paris Agreement on Climate Change. They were never ratified by the US Senate, so it was easy to abandon them under the Trump administration. It would be very hard for any signatory nation to negate the Montreux Treaty. 


From wiki:

Quote
In practice, because of sovereignty, any state can purport to withdraw from any treaty at any time, and cease to abide by its terms. ... If a state party's withdrawal is successful, its obligations under that treaty are considered terminated, and withdrawal by one party from a bilateral treaty terminates the treaty.

No state is ever binded by a treaty in perpetuity. One can withdraw from a treaty, or the treaty terminated.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 08:43:02 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3097 on: September 17, 2020, 08:55:14 PM »

Boris has the backing of the majority to leave the EU. Any dissent to this reality is inconsequential, if not irrelevant altogether. Move on UK!!!

Ahem, this is not about leaving - that has happened

FACT.. pure and simple ... The UK has already agreed the principle for a frictionless border between the 'Irelands' which was part of the leaving deal..

Yet another ex-Tory leader makes the point

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-54103559

A former Conservative leader asked how the UK could ďreproachĒ Russia, China and Iran for their conduct when it was prepared to break international laws.

Lord Howard, formerly Michael Howard, was referring to comments on Tuesday by the Northern Ireland Secretary Brandon Lewis, who said that measures in the UK Internal Markets Bill ďbreak international law in a very specific and limited wayĒ.

Lord Howard told peers of the ďdamage doneĒ to Britainís reputation for ďprobity and respect for the rule of lawĒ.



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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3098 on: September 17, 2020, 09:43:08 PM »
Heed Justice spokesperson Lord Keenís response, which you conveniently disregarded.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: Brexit good, bad or indifferent?
« Reply #3099 on: September 17, 2020, 11:00:29 PM »
Two interesting accords or treaties was The Paris Agreement on Climate Change. They were never ratified by the US Senate, so it was easy to abandon them under the Trump administration. It would be very hard for any signatory nation to negate the Montreux Treaty.  [/size][/font]

The Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty America had with Russia was ratified by the US Senate in the 80's but Trump pulled out of the treaty easily. Russia had been cheating for a long time. Obama even accused Russia of cheating but did nothing about it since he was trying to reset relations. Trump doesn't put up with those who hurt America's interests.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49198565


Trump told Putin he'll win an arms race with Russia

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-vladimir-putin-russia-arms-race-win-a8281726.html
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