Meeting girl in her city, what are the risks?

[Anotherkiwi]

You bolded out this from your response to Boethius, tell me what options the women i am talking to are lacking, an older woman only has older guys to date, Young women in her early 20's, has an army of older guys trying to relive their youth in any way possible.

Simple - most of the young women, from what I've seen there myself (and I'm sure you have too) would prefer to be with someone who is roughly their own age.  However, as many of the FSUW have written on here over the years, the average young FSUM just isn't up to the task, so some of them look for older, or foreign, men as an alternative.  The remainder end up having to accept "Mr. Close Enough" if they want any sort of marriage.  "Close enough" in this context doesn't have to mean "barely acceptable" - it might be that the woman is happy with 90% of the man's attributes, but may not be thrilled with his addiction to video games, or the fact that he smokes, or that he spends more time in nightclubs than she's comfortable with.

I have seen the messages, eventually these guys lose faith, or get burnt, and realise it is too late for them.

Quite right - but, in a lot of cases, these guys have been chasing an impossible dream (e.g. through Anastasia) and simply haven't realised that that is the case.  99.9% of those people have never had the good luck to find this site.

I am beginning to think you are the same sort of person, 2 trips, and you been on here for many years now, not sure what is wrong with you.

Nothing wrong with me - I just have other priorities at the moment.

Can't and won't are two different things, you been on here 7 years, god knows when your search actually started. Why have you only gone on two trips?

Like I wrote above - other priorities.  Unlike some, I'm not fixated on obtaining an FSU bride.  Plus, I generally like the interaction on here - it's a good stress reliever.

You must not be as good as you think you are.i am just calling it as i see it, you are talking a lot behind your keyboard making assumptions about the women i meet,and me, but it is clear you are a talker.

You can "see" whatever you like, but it doesn't change the fact that, other than what I've posted, you don't know anything about me.  You, on the other hand, have laid out in excruciating detail exactly what you've done, who've you've done it to, and why your life is so much better than anyone else's.  The fact that most of your assumptions about FSUW (other than those you've met) seem to be erroneous is obviously irrelevant to you.

I am going on my second trip in a few days for this year, plan on making my expat move within this year,

Good luck - and I do actually mean that sincerely.

what exactly are you doing except talking and spending years without doing fuck all?

Like I said - other priorities.

I will give you a chance to not be a keyboard warrior like jay, i am offering you a skype call, and you can repeat everything you say over a mic and camera. Jay already backed down, are you going to pussy out like him? You talk a lot about me making assumptions about you, just like you are making assumptions about me, i will answer all your questions over a video skype call, i just want to see what a troll looks like.

Thanks, but I'll pass.  Why should I repeat live anything which I've written here?  Unlike you, I don't denigrate people in the open forum, and I'm prepared to admit where I've been wrong when other people have proved that I've made an error.  When you can reach that stage you'll make a lot of people here happy.

And, whatever you might think, nobody is against you for trying to do what you're doing.  In fact, I'm sure that most people will wish you good luck because we know how hard this venture can be.  Most people who have commented on your story have actually offered good advice - it's just that you won't (or can't) believe it.

Your problem (and it's not yours alone) is that you think nobody else has any experience of what you're trying to do and, if they comment adversely about your particular circumstances, then they must be wrong.  When you grow up enough to acknowledge that other people might be right after all, that is when those comments will stop.

[southernX]

jumper ..DK you've  had a relationship with one RW, and you have never lived there.All these pen pal/text type romances /flirting/friendships mean very very little,  and you should know that.
 It's quite likely Trench coats girl understands it better than TC or yourself, and its likely part of why shes short /blunt etc, as words mean almost nothing in FSU culture, actual actions mean something.
She is unlikely to invest any real valuable time in a text/email  relationship, until she see's, or is certain, he would actually act .
(unless a lot of spare time or really bored)

very good advice  from jumper along with lots of other good posts from bill , calmissile & gator

SX

[Boethius]

And that, I think, is the main difference between the FSU women that dragonkid has met, and those that most of the rest of us have met, dated and (occasionally) married.  For some of them, at least, dragonkid may well have represented "Mr. Close Enough."

No, you have the intent of my post backwards.  Of course most young women would prefer to meet and marry young men.

The FSUW on this forum are not representative.  The majority of the FSUW who post or posted here were over 30 when they married.  Most were divorced from FSUM, a couple, from WM.  I believe pitbull is an exception.  She posted marrying someone with a PhD was critical to her, and that her options in this regard were rather limited in her home country.   

Your interpretation of dragonkid as "Mr. Close Enough" is certainly not coming from my post.  He would have more young women interested in meeting him than do older men precisely because there is no big age gap.

I am not suggesting large age gap relationships can't succeed, but most do not.  Furthermore, most women do not actively seek men far older than they are, no matter what they are telling WM.

OMG . . . what a terrible moniker to be stuck with !!!!

LOL.
 

[Trenchcoat]

Note:  Big Bill didn't say you need to have sex on first date.  He said if no sex by end of trip, then probably the relationship isn't going to proceed. 

I had a few gals who came directly to my apartment from train  or bus station . . . and within less than two hours said they wanted to go to bed with me.  This was our first meeting, but we had some good email exchanges before which were getting a little bit steamy at the end or at least very, very suggestive.  And these gals were all high caliber as far as education, professional jobs, most had a child or two, etc.

On the other extreme, a few gals I went on 6-7 dates with and even some sleepovers (separate beds or even rooms) before any sex occurred.  In a couple of instances, no sex on first trip, but was on second trip.  But, on such second trip, it was not just to see them.  I would have never gone back to see a gal on an exclusive basis if there had been no sex on first trip.

Useful info for us all I think ML, thanks for sharing. I think Bill is right if no sex with girl on first date as occurred with me then relationship probably isnt going anywhere. The girl I was with was with me me for four days approx and I think after that time not getting it come up or anything close to or in fact little affection speaks volumes.

I think your experience is also quite poignant in that it shows girls with children are far more likely to be up for it as they are no doubt desperate for any opportunity to get out off their desperate plight. In this respect wasting time on scams is perhaps less on their agenda, though no doubt some still do it. They are no doubt aware that they will need to show interest in the guy at some stage through sex so sex might as well be from the off to demonstrate their keenness for the guy, real or otherwise. I think that's why some FSW with kids get fed up with getting men that just want sex but by the same token some will just be out to get a green card or similar. For many men they may well be assured an easy lay that way.

The girl I met was more towards the other end and as you know for a while I contemplated doing similar  - visit again but not as exclusive as I could not be sure of her feelings towards me - but then found out she was just into freebies and probably whatever else I was willing to send her (money, etc).

[Trenchcoat]

Note:  Big Bill didn't say you need to have sex on first date.  He said if no sex by end of trip, then probably the relationship isn't going to proceed. 

I had a few gals who came directly to my apartment from train  or bus station . . . and within less than two hours said they wanted to go to bed with me.  This was our first meeting, but we had some good email exchanges before which were getting a little bit steamy at the end or at least very, very suggestive.  And these gals were all high caliber as far as education, professional jobs, most had a child or two, etc.

On the other extreme, a few gals I went on 6-7 dates with and even some sleepovers (separate beds or even rooms) before any sex occurred.  In a couple of instances, no sex on first trip, but was on second trip.  But, on such second trip, it was not just to see them.  I would have never gone back to see a gal on an exclusive basis if there had been no sex on first trip.

Useful info for us all I think ML, thanks for sharing. I think Bill is right if no sex with girl on first date as occurred with me then relationship probably isnt going anywhere. The girl I was with was with me me for four days approx and I think after that time not getting it come up or anything close to or in fact little affection speaks volumes.

I think your experience is also quite poignant in that it shows girls with children are far more likely to be up for it as they are no doubt desperate for any opportunity to get out off their desperate plight. In this respect wasting time on scams is perhaps less on their agenda, though no doubt some still do it. They are no doubt aware that they will need to show interest in the guy at some stage through sex so sex might as well be from the off to demonstrate their keenness for the guy, real or otherwise. I think that's why some FSW with kids get fed up with getting men that just want sex but by the same token some will just be out to get a green card or similar. For many men they may well be assured an easy lay that way.

The girl I met was more towards the other end and as you know for a while I contemplated doing similar  - visit again but not as exclusive as I could not be sure of her feelings towards me - but then found out she was just into freebies and probably whatever else I was willing to send her (money, etc).

[Deasonstacy]

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[treadmilldude]

Mmmm, Trenchcoat something tells me FSU women with Children are not as desperate as you think they are. I think these women have pride and self worth, and are not just going to think "I must put out to Western Men because I am less desirable than women without children". Boethius might be able to comment on this better than I can, but I do not think women with children in the FSU are necessarily significantly more likely to have sex with a Western Man on his first trip than women without children. In fact, in some ways, I believe that having a child can lead a FSU woman to be even more cautious and wary of Western Men than a FSU woman without a child. I just don't think that FSU women with Children are more likely to sleep with a Western Man on his first visit than women without Children. But I'd love to hear Boethius's thoughts on this.

Trying to understand women is something I have never been particularly very good at.  (smile)

[I/O]

But are you having sex more than twice a month?   (Don't answer that.)

With my wife.......? You asked for that....

[HoundDaddyLee]

Tench and Tread (and others    )


My 2 cents on FSUW and sex (especially FSUW with children). These are my views so take it for its worth.


If you have daily communication with a woman before going over, Skype or Phone calls, not SMS, text or emails you will know if there is mutual chemistry. If that chemistry ignites when you meet in person the woman, in my experience will initiate sex. It may not happen on your first night there, but it will happen. If it has not happened within 3 nights and there is not a external reason (time of the month, kids at home, etc) then she is probably not into you. Again, just my view.


Now, on to women with children (under 16). I know TMD is looking in this space, but I would advise him to tread (pun not intended) lightly. This is for the case where the Father is either not in the picture or is a very absentee Father. You are looking primarily at three scenarios:
1 - The guy finds out that his ex is thinking of marrying a foreign man. He suddenly comes to his senses and wants a real Father - Child bond and relationship with the child. If this happens you will not get him to sign the papers for the child to immigrate out of the country. (This may be TMD's Belarus woman/child situation)


2 -  The guy finds out that his ex is thinking of marrying a foreign man. He acts as if he has come to his senses and wants a relationship. He is probably trying to control his ex-wife. This is typical controlling abusive behavior. If your ladies ex had physically assaulted her or the child, this is probably what is going on.
[/size]
[/size]3 - [/size]The guy finds out that his ex is thinking of marrying a foreign man. He is see a potential payday in his future if he plays the part of the loving Dad. If you want to marry the woman and have her and child immigrate to your country you will have a write a check. Potentially an extremely large check to the father for his cooperation.
[/size]
I am sure most FSU men are loving wonderful Fathers. But the ones that are divorced and not in the their kids lives (unless the woman is keeping the child away, that is quite another issue and should have a man running for the exits) are a potential landmine for the poor foreign guy in this triangle.

Once the child is over 16 and close to University or the job market, then the above is moot.

Hope this helps,
HDL

[Anotherkiwi]

No, you have the intent of my post backwards.  Of course most young women would prefer to meet and marry young men.

The FSUW on this forum are not representative.  The majority of the FSUW who post or posted here were over 30 when they married.  Most were divorced from FSUM, a couple, from WM.  I believe pitbull is an exception.  She posted marrying someone with a PhD was critical to her, and that her options in this regard were rather limited in her home country.   

Your interpretation of dragonkid as "Mr. Close Enough" is certainly not coming from my post.  He would have more young women interested in meeting him than do older men precisely because there is no big age gap.

I am not suggesting large age gap relationships can't succeed, but most do not.  Furthermore, most women do not actively seek men far older than they are, no matter what they are telling WM.

Sorry, Boe, but you've misunderstood what I wrote.  I was agreeing with you, precisely because dragonkid IS young (far younger than the average searcher).  This is what I meant when I wrote, in answer to dragonkid:

Simple - most of the young women, from what I've seen there myself (and I'm sure you have too) would prefer to be with someone who is roughly their own age.  However, as many of the FSUW have written on here over the years, the average young FSUM just isn't up to the task, so some of them look for older, or foreign, men as an alternative.  The remainder end up having to accept "Mr. Close Enough" if they want any sort of marriage.  "Close enough" in this context doesn't have to mean "barely acceptable" - it might be that the woman is happy with 90% of the man's attributes, but may not be thrilled with his addiction to video games, or the fact that he smokes, or that he spends more time in nightclubs than she's comfortable with.

In that sense, I stand by my assertion that dragonkid MAY be "Mr Close Enough" for some (or many) of those women.  Although the FSUW posters on this forum aren't representative of FSUW as a whole (and here I agree with you), that doesn't make their observations about young FSUM any less valid.  If dragonkid can get past the poor expectations that many young FSUW have of young males, then he stands a much better chance of finding a proper long-term relationship.  It appears that he may have done so once already - if he can rinse and repeat, then MAYBE he'll succeed.  He still has a very long and difficult row to hoe.

[dragonkid]

let me reassess on some of the things i was taught here

• women want money only, more money you have, the better the women you can buy, no woman can resist money.
• go for divorced women
• women want bad boys, which is why i do so well (I still laugh at this)
• Traditional dating sites are garbage, i should join travelgirls, a site where you meet women that say they are not escorts, but you know they are
• Western women are bad, FSUW are the best. The only thing i noticed is FSUW can be very cold at times, i know of a few girls that are cheating on their foreign bfs, you really never truly know a fsuw till you lived with her for a long period of time. I believe men should be more cautious dating someone abroad, than a local woman

Not here you weren't.  Nobody (amongst the regular posters, anyway) ever advocates this.

Most people who have commented on your story have actually offered good advice - it's just that you won't (or can't) believe it.

When you grow up enough to acknowledge that other people might be right after all, that is when those comments will stop.

You are wrong, first three quotes were given to me by tigerpaws,and was defended by another poster. You didn't see them because this wasn't posted on forums, when you talk to people on here, they are very different to what is represented on here.nobody was yanking on my chain like you claimed, jone was actually very genuine and trying to help me out when he suggested i join travelgirls, and drop the traditional dating sites, he gave other pieces of advice which i agree on, but the travelgirl thing is bullshit for me. I believe it was gator that claimed that tigerpaws was one of the very knowledgeable vets on this forum, now if a guy like tigerpaws is held at high regard, can you blame me for reluctantly taking in all the advice given to me on here?

I listened, and i knew already, under 25's are very turbulent, i mentioned this before in other posts, but you guys want to continue putting words in my mouth, older women tend to be more genuine.

Look at this quote and the date

seems like more mature women are the most genuine ones, struggling to find a partner

All i did is call out bullshit, gator claiming dating 25 under is a lost cause, you know what is even worse? Divorce rates are around 45%, getting remarried shoots up to 65%, 3rd time divorce rates is 75%. Should we say that women that are divorced are the ones to avoid? Stats show this, we should all base our search on stats rather than getting to know people, and trying to keep an open mind.

Then the man will look at any kind word or action as a possibility that she is coming
around and will eventually fall in love with him, when that stuff only happens in
Hollywood movies and never in real life.

Another generalised post, there was one woman who wasn't very eager, took me a while, i got to her, and she was going to come down to see me. Ones that look physically better than the rest, usually have the most guys messaging them, and take a lot more effort to break down.

When my dad first met my mum, he went knocking on her door asking for some help, she told him she couldn't help, then warned her flat mate that a weirdo lived in their block and to watch out. she would go on dates with guys like doctors, never hold a hand when dating the guys even for 6 months. You think these guys acted like you? Nope, they told her, that is why they liked her, because she respected herself. If you want a woman worth something, you can't expect her to open her legs wide open on the first date like trench thinks. Some women have a lot of options, and you need to prove yourself, any woman worth getting is worth fighting for, i can message lots of women under my age, and above, get them rolling in the bed on the first night, but they won't be anything great. 

This is why i combine the advice given to me by people in realife, and posters, some people bring up good stuff, but sometimes you can spot the shit from a mile off.

[treadmilldude]

Hounddaddylee, thank you for the reply. You mentioned that there are (3) scenarios regarding the Father of a FSU woman with a child that might take place. Yet, you only mentioned scenario #1. What were scenarios #2 and #3? Thank you in advance.

[Anotherkiwi]

You are wrong, first three quotes were given to me by tigerpaws,and was defended by another poster. You didn't see them because this wasn't posted on forums,

As I'm not privy to your personal messages, of course I couldn't see them, which was why I posted what I did.

when you talk to people on here, they are very different to what is represented on here.nobody was yanking on my chain like you claimed, jone was actually very genuine and trying to help me out when he suggested i join travelgirls, and drop the traditional dating sites, he gave other pieces of advice which i agree on, but the travelgirl thing is bullshit for me. I believe it was gator that claimed that tigerpaws was one of the very knowledgeable vets on this forum, now if a guy like tigerpaws is held at high regard, can you blame me for reluctantly taking in all the advice given to me on here?

If you have been reading the threads in which TigerPaws has been posting, you will see that many people's opinions of him have drastically changed in recent times.

I listened, and i knew already, under 25's are very turbulent, i mentioned this before in other posts, but you guys want to continue putting words in my mouth, older women tend to be more genuine.

Which was exactly what I wrote, so why say otherwise?

This is why i combine the advice given to me by people in realife, and posters, some people bring up good stuff, but sometimes you can spot the shit from a mile off.

Very true.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Hounddaddylee, thank you for the reply. You mentioned that there are (3) scenarios regarding the Father of a FSU woman with a child that might take place. Yet, you only mentioned scenario #1. What were scenarios #2 and #3? Thank you in advance.

TMD,


The formatting got screwed up. Here are the three scenarios


1 - Father comes back after realizing he really honestly does want a relationship with his child. (This may be your situation). In this case he will never allow the child to leave and this is good as a child needs his or her loving father.
2 - Father comes back after realizing the woman and child may be leaving for another country. He is abusive and controlling and wants to block this happening. We will feign being in the childs life, stalling and causing death to the relationship with the foreign man. (Possibly your scenario). This is bad because things are completely out of your control. If the woman calls the mans bluff scenario 2 will probably turn into scenario 3.
3 - Father comes back for a payday. He knows he has to sign for the child to immigrate. So expect to write a large check to get him to do this.


Dating a FSUW with a child under 16, 17 or 18 can be walking through a minefield. Just need to be aware of the situation.


Hope this helps,
HDL


P.S. Remember to preview all posts from now on. 

[treadmilldude]

Hounddaddylee, I think I have come to a pretty rational decision. If I choose to use Mordinson's Marriage Agency in Kharkiv, then I will pursue both women with children and without children. But if I decide to go with women / a woman whom I met through the combination of Mamba and VK, I am only going to meet a woman / women without children. As you said, courting a FSU woman with a child can be like traversing a minefield with all sorts of perils at every step in the form of the child's biological Father. I mean, how do I know if a woman with a child I am pursuing is even being 100% honest with me about the level of involvement of the child's Father in his/her life? I don't think it is possible for me to be certain the woman is being honest with me about the Father, until I actually step off the plane and meet her and her child in person. I just love children with all of my heart, I want to be a Dad very badly, and it absolutely sucks that I am not going to be able to look in that target group - women with Children.

Obviously, if I use Mordinson's, Michael has already properly vetted the ladies with children and they are all able to move to a Western Man's country, as either the Father is dead, his whereabouts are unknown, or the Father has already given the woman permission to join Michael's agency and promised he will relinquish his rights as a Father and sign the legal papers, allowing me to adopt the woman's child and bring her child to the US. That is one huge bonus with using Mordinson's...the women with children have already been properly vetted by Michael and are able to move to the US.

If I do use Michael, the only problem I foresee is that I am going to have to lower my acceptable age range for women to about 27, down from 29, since there are several women between 27-28 at his agency I like tremendously, and also the fact that between my desired age range, 29-33, there are just not enough women to meet at Mordinson's, at least not the number of women I would like to meet. But if I extend the age range down 2 years to 27, then suddenly there are plenty of women to meet.

What is your opinion of a 38 year-old Man being with a 27 year-old Kharkiv woman? Is 11 years too large of an age gap in your opinion, Hounddaddylee? Do you think most 27 year-old Ukrainian women are mature enough, and "ready" to marry and move to a Western Man's country? Or am I pushing the age gap too far (again 11 years), and potentially setting myself up for divorce and failure? In your experience, are 27 year-old Ukrainian women even interested in an old man like me? Or will they just laugh at me and tell this old man to go back to his nursing home? 

[HoundDaddyLee]

What is your opinion of a 38 year-old Man being with a 27 year-old Kharkiv woman? Is 11 years too large of an age gap in your opinion, Hounddaddylee? Do you think most 27 year-old Ukrainian women are mature enough, and "ready" to marry and move to a Western Man's country? Or am I pushing the age gap too far (again 11 years), and potentially setting myself up for divorce and failure? In your experience, are 27 year-old Ukrainian women even interested in an old man like me? Or will they just laugh at me and tell this old man to go back to his nursing home?

TMD,


I cannot speak to the Mordinson's agency's abilities to get a woman pre-vetted. I have never used them. I believe GuppyCaptain used them, but I cannot remember if it was him or another member.


I don't get hypercritical of age gaps. If two people love each other and are honest with each other, then all is good. As I am older than you, I look in the higher age ranges and tried to keep within 10 years. But it is my guide for myself. I know I would not be comfortable with a 27 year old woman, but if I were 38 and she caught my fancy I would not rule it out.  I think the best thing you can do is to get on a plane and visit. Do a WMVM approach or be sure to have backup plans.


My view is that you spent too much time virtually dating the gal in Gomel, when you should have gotten on a plane and visited. If you had visited you would know where you stand and if the father is really in the picture. I have to tell you that actually getting on a plane and visiting a FSU country is a wonderful experience. But you can have the added benefit of meeting with some women to see if there is connection.


All I can tell you is that every trip I have taken as been an educational experience. Some bad, but mostly good. So as others have said before me. Get your butt on a plane and visit!


Good luck,
HDL

[Jumper]

Caveat emptor-

 *Trusting* any Ukrainian dating agency is folly, for much of anything, much less vetting.

 I'm not saying not to use the agencies,
they can be one , of many,methods to use to meet people, to rent flats or acquire a translators services  etc.
but generally they are mot the best way for any of those things, just one way.

So there should be a continuing  buyer beware sign here..lol,
 and advice to do your own vetting.
 Paying an agency to do so,  is 99.99999% of the time there just a marketing tool of some various agencies to justify charging a lot more.

In the realm of Ukrainian dating agencies you seldom get what you pay for. I've heard it all, from the agencies over the years, (since 99)
 it's all white noise for the most part.

 There is generally zero reason to spend any more with any of them than you would need to, to either contact directly, or simply meet someone *you* found interesting.

[Jumper]

Yes one relationship with a girl in the fsu, but 80% girls i talked to wanted to pursue further, of those that did, 95%+ were going to fly down to meet me

...and exactly like I was suggesting the other way about men saying they will fly to meet the girl.
 
Talk is cheap in the FSU , and viewed as more cheap than in western culture.A man or woman saying they will do this, or that, is not really valued.Actions are. Otherwise, it's just words, and means very little until you meet in person.
It is not a culture based on trust,  by any means or stretch of the imagination.
 It is one of the large cultural differences western men looking into this need to know.

[Trenchcoat]

Guppy Captain used Mordinson and from what he wrote after a few dates settled on a girl there, one with a child in Kharkiv. However, apart from some stuff on here shortly after went a bit quiet, I think he went back to the US for work or something. I sense that the relationship may be in limbo and might have gone cold. No doubt Guppy Captain needed to work some as Mordinsons fees seem steep, a couple of grand or so plus costs of flights on top of that. For somewhere near the front line I would be careful.

Personally Treadmilldude I have looked at the Mordinson website and was not impressed, the girls often look depressed in their vidoes like they are being people trafficked, lol. Like someone said it is another way of person's choosing but if didn't strike me. I think you also have to consider if once the father finds out your interested he won't hold you to random and Mordinsons word means little. If they state they will compensate yiu sufficiently in such a situation maybe but skmething tells me that will be unlikely.

Plane journeys from the US can be steep and a long journey, even I wouldn't do it on a whim from the UK it is however as some have just stated here the only chance to get a potential for something to really happen but it is just that a potential. So bottom line is spend your money wisely as it can go quick rushing into anything, unless of course your super rich.

[ML]

1) Don't rush to get on a plane to check a gal out as some have suggested.

2) Don't take a long time to correspond using various media to try to check a gal out as some have suggested.

3) Rather do the logical thing.  Plan a WMVM trip to visit 10 or more gals.  This lessens the problems if a particular gal does not check out . . . as certainly some will not, whether you go WMVM or WOVO.

[GregfromGa]

1) Don't rush to get on a plane to check a gal out as some have suggested.

2) Don't take a long time to correspond using various media to try to check a gal out as some have suggested.

3) Rather do the logical thing.  Plan a WMVM trip to visit 10 or more gals.  This lessens the problems if a particular gal does not check out . . . as certainly some will not, whether you go WMVM or WOVO.

Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to see 10 different girls? Logistically it's almost impossible unless they are all from the same city. It would also be very expensive and then there's the whole once each and every one of them learns of the others or other then well it's over for the most part. Yes it sounds good in theory but that's about it. Now having a Plan B once the wheels come off Plan A well that's a different story.

[ML]

Greg, apparently you haven't kept up with reading here.

I have done exactly what I suggested several times, i.e. met 10 or more women on WMVM trips; and others have done it also.

Yes, of course they must live in same city, or they must travel to that one city you are visiting.

Here is the procedure thread:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

Here is one of my trip threads:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=11839.0

And here is my Married thread:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18530.0

= = = = = =

And yes Greg, I am quite aware that not all guys can pull off the WMVM procedure.

[alex330]

Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to see 10 different girls? Logistically it's almost impossible unless they are all from the same city. It would also be very expensive and then there's the whole once each and every one of them learns of the others or other then well it's over for the most part. Yes it sounds good in theory but that's about it. Now having a Plan B once the wheels come off Plan A well that's a different story.

Agreed. Sounds pretty damn impossible unless a large city, coffee dates, and the women are not from agencies or run in the same circles. Once an agency girl goes out with you many of the others will know. And if you hit it off with one of the first few what do you tell the other? Seems very unnatural to me....but I guess there are guys on here that have done it as ML says.

[ML]

Agreed. Sounds pretty damn impossible unless a large city, coffee dates, and the women are not from agencies or run in the same circles. Once an agency girl goes out with you many of the others will know. And if you hit it off with one of the first few what do you tell the other? Seems very unnatural to me....but I guess there are guys on here that have done it as ML says.

Alex, I never dealt with ANY agency EVER.  And I never went on ANY coffee dates.  There was nothing unnatural about it.  Just like going on a date here in USA . . . with added feature that you are going on date with a different gal each day.

You can read the URLs I posted above.  I thought all the long time folks here were up on this.

[GregfromGa]

ML, you're right I really don't keep up here with all of the knowledge being given out. Meeting 10 different women in Kharkov in 4 weeks is certainly doable. I remember eating lunch with one girl in Kharkiv in the park across the street from the Kharkiv Hotel and while eating with her I ran to the square with the Lenin monument to hopefully meet the girl I ended up marrying. I told the first girl I was going to check my email. My plan didn't work. She didn't get the message in time. Yes if someone is going for a month then yes it's doable but still it would be tricky especially if the girls know where you are staying. Agency girls probably talk.