Meeting girl in her city, what are the risks?

[alex330]

Alex, I never dealt with ANY agency EVER. 

Probably best not to use agencies. If I were to do it again I would avoid them. I had no idea there were other ways at the time. Then again if I were to redo it I doubt I would even fly overseas. Plenty of local RW here.

And I never went on ANY coffee dates.  There was nothing unnatural about it.  Just like going on a date here in USA . . . with added feature that you are going on date with a different gal each day.

For me it seems unnatural is all. Locally I would find a girl I click with and game on usually. But everyone is different and has a different approach. For those flying overseas and limited on time and money your method makes the most sense imo.

[Gator]

Gator can defend himself, but please quote where he said that.

Of course I never said such.  DK is an intuitive, not an analytic.  Such thinkers don't need a lot of clues and don't want any after their mind is made up.

Greg, thanks for reminding me.   

[southernX]

TMD  What is your opinion of a 38 year-old Man being with a 27 year-old Kharkiv woman? Is 11 years too large of an age gap in your opinion, Hounddaddylee? Do you think most 27 year-old Ukrainian women are mature enough, and "ready" to marry and move to a Western Man's country? Or am I pushing the age gap too far (again 11 years), and potentially setting myself up for divorce and failure? In your experience, are 27 year-old Ukrainian women even interested in an old man like me? Or will they just laugh at me and tell this old man to go back to his nursing home? 

your question above is pretty simple imo

you have a good chance of making this work if you follow all other good sense and good advice that you usually would when looking for a matchup anywhere else ,
know your self and what you are like and your needs etc,

than proceed with a clear outline of your potential partners must have and also what you dont want in a partner , and then dont get too distracted from that

ime , the FSU women from 27+ have had some life experience ,with kids even more .   they are quite mature , they know what they want and usually can see a good thing if it comes across their door

there will always be exceptions to this , but mostly you should be able to sift the wheat from the chaff so to speak to find potential partners


there is no general rule imo , women like men all vary , its up to you to follow your nose in what you are looking for

women with kids are not so problematic as you may read here , there are other scenarios to think about
a woman with a child may be widowed , she may have moved country herself and taken the child with her , so she already has custody rights etc
her childs father may have moved countrys away from her and given over custody etc

all of this plus the other possibilitys you need to think about and put into question when your looking at profiles and then communicating with any lady there , dont wait till you have made some solid connection and then make discovery and dont blanket rule anyone out until you make discovery imo

i know many guys here including myself who have married a lady with a child or children and have good strong marriages with no abnormal issues


SX

[Jumper]

What is your opinion of a 38 year-old Man being with a 27 year-old Kharkiv woman? Is 11 years too large of an age gap in your opinion, Hounddaddylee? Do you think most 27 year-old Ukrainian women are mature enough, and "ready" to marry and move to a Western Man's country? Or am I pushing the age gap too far (again 11 years), and potentially setting myself up for divorce and failure? In your experience, are 27 year-old Ukrainian women even interested in an old man like me? Or will they just laugh at me and tell this old man to go back to his nursing home?

My wife was 28 when we met, I was 47.
Since we are  married with a child , in my country,
it's reasonable to assume she was mature enough to move to my country and marry , and certainly interested in me despite my age.
I never had any lack of interest from that age group of women there.
If you have your head on straight, there is no reason 11 years would even be any real  factor with a late twenties FSUW.


  Getting married sets anyone up for the possibility of divorce?
It's the number one cause of divorce, not age disparity.
 



Joking aside, stage of life, what you both want in life,and lifestyles,
 children, child rearing, hobbies , interests  etc etc are what you need to be on the same page /compatible.

 If you like clubbing , and she's a homebody, (or vice versa)
would typically be far more of an issue than an 11 year age gap.
A million threads on that subject, and pre nups, and ...lol

[treadmilldude]

Quote from Jumper (ie I do not know how to multiquote so I am using this old-school retarded method to use multiple quotes in my post) "Getting married sets anyone up for the possibility of divorce?
It's the number one cause of divorce, not age disparity." So Jumper, seeing as how I wanna minimize my chances of divorce, wouldn't you agree with me the best way is to not get on a plane, not communicate with any more FSU women from this day forward? If so, then that is my plan and what I will do. 

Jumper, you said you would never be with a 27 year-old woman, but that you are older than me. Do you mind me asking how old you are, and how old you and your pretty FSU Wife were when ya'll got married? Is your lovely Wife honest with you by admitting the biggest mistake she ever made in her life was marrying a dork like you Jumper?   

OK, serious question regarding Language barrier in communication with the FSU ladies. This 7 minute 15 second video by Michael Mordinson is absolutely fantastic and is based on his own experience of helping many many hundreds of Western Men meeting many hundreds of FSU women in Kharkiv. If you have a few minutes, I recommend you watch it as it is based on a guy who has been doing this full-time (this is his livelihood) since 1999 (17 years!!)       

Some guys on RWD have given the advice to not ever pursue a FSU woman who does not speak pretty good English. Some guys have said they met their FSU Wife before she learned almost any English, while she was a complete stranger to the English language. They said part of the novelty and uniqueness of starting a relationship with a FSU woman was the language barrier - they had to rely on things like hand gestures, facial gestures, google translate, my personal favorite  translate.yandex.com  (the Russian equivalent of google) which I have found, as well as many others have found, to be superior to google translate. The language barrier of course made it a challenge, but in some ways it added to the relationship and brought the man and the woman closer, it brought an additional element of love into the equation as they were both struggling initially to understand each other, yet they both were clearly aware the other was trying mightily hard to do their very very best to communicate. Their was mutual appreciation for their partner for their struggle to be understood and understand the other party.

My experience on Mamba has been pretty much consistent no matter what country or city I look in. If I use the search function (I am on VIP on Mamba so I have the added benefit of being able to use all the options of the advanced search option, including "ability to speak English Yes/No") to select for women in that city in the age range of 29-33, the percentage of women who claim they speak English out of all the women on mamba in that range is almost always exactly 20%. It just never varies very much at all from 20%. So of the women in any city on Mamba, between the ages of 29-33, about 20% claim they speak English and80% claim they do not speak English. However and unfortunately, from my chats with quite a few women on Mamba, I have found that of those 20% of claim they speak English, about 60% either speak zero English or very little English, so little that every chat we have on skype or whatsapp or viber is entirely dependent on the use of the combination of google translate and translate.yandex.com. So only about 40% of the original 20% who claim to speak good English actually do. That means of the women on mamba in any particular city, in my experience, consistently approximately only 8% of the women between the ages of 29-33 speak good English - good enough that we can chat on skype, whatsapp or viber without either of us having to rely on an online translator. That means 92% of the women between the ages of 29-33 in any given city on mamba speak either no English or very poor English - at least that has been my own personal experience.

As a result, if I limit myself to only women that speak good English, I am effectively eliminating 92% of the women on Mamba right off the bat. That seriously sucks, and I am sure even the members here on RWD who recommend a guy ONLY pursue a woman who speaks good English would agree with that sentiment.

Again, if you have a couple minutes, please watch the short video by Michael Mordinson in which he goes into great detail about why pursuing a woman who speaks either no or very little English is NOT a bad idea, and how he has had dozens and dozens of happy, successful marriages since 1999 at his agency.

Anyone who wants to comment on my post, please do. I wish every member would share their opinions on the existence of a language barrier between a Western Man and a FSU woman - GOOD or BAD and WHY? And, what was the case with you and the FSU woman you ended up successfully marrying - did she speak decent English or not? If not, how did you navigate this obstacle? Hire a professional translator - was the translator with you only for the first few days or the entire first trip? Simply struggle mightily with facial gestures, hand gestures and electronic translators? Or what other methods did you use to get around the language barrier?

If I need to hire a translator, I have 2 girls in Kharkiv whom I met over the last couple years whom I met on Anastasiadate (yeah, I know what a loser I am) who speak fluent English, and we initially corresponded by meeting on Anastasiadate, then taking it offline pretty soon to skype. I am still friends with both of these girls and talk to them on vk every once in awhile. Considering the average salary in Kharkiv Ukraine is about $150 US per month after tax (40 Hour work week X 4.33 weeks per month on average = 174 Hours per month. 150 / 174 = $.86 per hour average wage in Kharkiv. Yeah, I know Ukraine is in a shitload of trouble economically. 86 cents per hour is, ummm.....not very good. Belarus is better at about $300 US per month average salary (according to a ton of girls I have met on Mamba and VK in Belarus), but still not exactly very good.

Anyways, both of these women in Kharkiv, Ukraine are still single to this day, no children, no husband, no boyfriend, and I am still friends with each of them and talk to them occasionally on VK. Seeing as how hey make about $150 per month, and I will be in the FSU for about 24 days, if I pay them $75 per day to be with me all day long for 24 days, that works out to be a very good deal for me to have them by my side as my translator all day every day for 24 days - only about $1,800 for their service for 24 days, as well as the cost  of their meals when we go out to eat at restaurants (I am generous, I will not make them pay for their own meals. I have a kind heart). So if I do settle on a girl who does not speak English, for a little more than $1,800 (very reasonable to me) I can have one of my two female friends from Kharkiv be with me in Belarus or Kharkiv 24 hours per day to translate. And, if I end up "accidentally" falling in love with either of these 2 very cute, slender women (each is 28, really not that bad of an age gap at all - 10 year age gap for me. Not great, but not completely terrible)....well that would not be the worst thing in the world to happen to me, right?  (there needs to be a heart/love emoticon. I am looking for a heart / love sign emoticon, but I cannot find one)

I apologize for the extremely brief post. Next time, I will attempt to be a bit more loquacious. 

[HoundDaddyLee]

Quote from Jumper (ie I do not know how to multiquote so I am using this old-school retarded method to use multiple quotes in my post) "Getting married sets anyone up for the possibility of divorce?
It's the number one cause of divorce, not age disparity." So Jumper, seeing as how I wanna minimize my chances of divorce, wouldn't you agree with me the best way is to not get on a plane, not communicate with any more FSU women from this day forward? If so, then that is my plan and what I will do. 

Jumper, you said you would never be with a 27 year-old woman, but that you are older than me. Do you mind me asking how old you are, and how old you and your pretty FSU Wife were when ya'll got married? Is your lovely Wife honest with you by admitting the biggest mistake she ever made in her life was marrying a dork like you Jumper?   

OK, serious question regarding Language barrier in communication with the FSU ladies. This 7 minute 15 second video by Michael Mordinson is absolutely fantastic and is based on his own experience of helping many many hundreds of Western Men meeting many hundreds of FSU women in Kharkiv. If you have a few minutes, I recommend you watch it as it is based on a guy who has been doing this full-time (this is his livelihood) since 1999 (17 years!!)       

Some guys on RWD have given the advice to not ever pursue a FSU woman who does not speak pretty good English. Some guys have said they met their FSU Wife before she learned almost any English, while she was a complete stranger to the English language. They said part of the novelty and uniqueness of starting a relationship with a FSU woman was the language barrier - they had to rely on things like hand gestures, facial gestures, google translate, my personal favorite  translate.yandex.com  (the Russian equivalent of google) which I have found, as well as many others have found, to be superior to google translate. The language barrier of course made it a challenge, but in some ways it added to the relationship and brought the man and the woman closer, it brought an additional element of love into the equation as they were both struggling initially to understand each other, yet they both were clearly aware the other was trying mightily hard to do their very very best to communicate. Their was mutual appreciation for their partner for their struggle to be understood and understand the other party.

My experience on Mamba has been pretty much consistent no matter what country or city I look in. If I use the search function (I am on VIP on Mamba so I have the added benefit of being able to use all the options of the advanced search option, including "ability to speak English Yes/No") to select for women in that city in the age range of 29-33, the percentage of women who claim they speak English out of all the women on mamba in that range is almost always exactly 20%. It just never varies very much at all from 20%. So of the women in any city on Mamba, between the ages of 29-33, about 20% claim they speak English and80% claim they do not speak English. However and unfortunately, from my chats with quite a few women on Mamba, I have found that of those 20% of claim they speak English, about 60% either speak zero English or very little English, so little that every chat we have on skype or whatsapp or viber is entirely dependent on the use of the combination of google translate and translate.yandex.com. So only about 40% of the original 20% who claim to speak good English actually do. That means of the women on mamba in any particular city, in my experience, consistently approximately only 8% of the women between the ages of 29-33 speak good English - good enough that we can chat on skype, whatsapp or viber without either of us having to rely on an online translator. That means 92% of the women between the ages of 29-33 in any given city on mamba speak either no English or very poor English - at least that has been my own personal experience.

As a result, if I limit myself to only women that speak good English, I am effectively eliminating 92% of the women on Mamba right off the bat. That seriously sucks, and I am sure even the members here on RWD who recommend a guy ONLY pursue a woman who speaks good English would agree with that sentiment.

Again, if you have a couple minutes, please watch the short video by Michael Mordinson in which he goes into great detail about why pursuing a woman who speaks either no or very little English is NOT a bad idea, and how he has had dozens and dozens of happy, successful marriages since 1999 at his agency.

Anyone who wants to comment on my post, please do. I wish every member would share their opinions on the existence of a language barrier between a Western Man and a FSU woman - GOOD or BAD and WHY? And, what was the case with you and the FSU woman you ended up successfully marrying - did she speak decent English or not? If not, how did you navigate this obstacle? Hire a professional translator - was the translator with you only for the first few days or the entire first trip? Simply struggle mightily with facial gestures, hand gestures and electronic translators? Or what other methods did you use to get around the language barrier?

If I need to hire a translator, I have 2 girls in Kharkiv whom I met over the last couple years whom I met on Anastasiadate (yeah, I know what a loser I am) who speak fluent English, and we initially corresponded by meeting on Anastasiadate, then taking it offline pretty soon to skype. I am still friends with both of these girls and talk to them on vk every once in awhile. Considering the average salary in Kharkiv Ukraine is about $150 US per month after tax (40 Hour work week X 4.33 weeks per month on average = 174 Hours per month. 150 / 174 = $.86 per hour average wage in Kharkiv. Yeah, I know Ukraine is in a shitload of trouble economically. 86 cents per hour is, ummm.....not very good. Belarus is better at about $300 US per month average salary (according to a ton of girls I have met on Mamba and VK in Belarus), but still not exactly very good.

Anyways, both of these women in Kharkiv, Ukraine are still single to this day, no children, no husband, no boyfriend, and I am still friends with each of them and talk to them occasionally on VK. Seeing as how hey make about $150 per month, and I will be in the FSU for about 24 days, if I pay them $75 per day to be with me all day long for 24 days, that works out to be a very good deal for me to have them by my side as my translator all day every day for 24 days - only about $1,800 for their service for 24 days, as well as the cost  of their meals when we go out to eat at restaurants (I am generous, I will not make them pay for their own meals. I have a kind heart). So if I do settle on a girl who does not speak English, for a little more than $1,800 (very reasonable to me) I can have one of my two female friends from Kharkiv be with me in Belarus or Kharkiv 24 hours per day to translate. And, if I end up "accidentally" falling in love with either of these 2 very cute, slender women (each is 28, really not that bad of an age gap at all - 10 year age gap for me. Not great, but not completely terrible)....well that would not be the worst thing in the world to happen to me, right?  (there needs to be a heart/love emoticon. I am looking for a heart / love sign emoticon, but I cannot find one)

I apologize for the extremely brief post. Next time, I will attempt to be a bit more loquacious.

TMD,


Early in the post I think you confused me with Jumper. I said I would not be interested in a 27 year old. But anyway,  you are still overthinking this. Yes, finding a woman who speaks English would help smooth things overall (I guess). Language is not the only barrier. There is a huge culture difference that is (in my opinion) a bigger obstacle. But all this is moot if you don't get on a plane and visit. My first trip (5 years ago) was to meet a woman I met on ADate. This was before I knew about this site or the site that shall not be named. From first contact to me being on the ground in Odessa was less than three months.


As far as the Modinson video is concerned. It is marketing. He has a business and would never tell you that what he is selling would not work. I feel you would be paying a lot of money for something you should be able to do yourself. But it is your money and your life. Go for it. Get on his site talk to the girls you like and go meet them.


In poker there is a philosophy that sometimes you need to bet into a pot to "see where you are at". Going over there is the same concept. As I mentioned in my post from yesterday, if you had visited the Belorussian woman, you would know if the father is really in the picture or just trying for a payday, etc. But to return to the poker analogy, you just checked the flop with two aces in the hole and the flop was 3 suited cards. You could be ahead or drawing dead. So your relationship with the woman that you had been growing is essentially dead because you failed to act. And what if you had acted and found out on the ground that the father was in the picture? Then you would be there to experience the culture and maybe meet another woman that could have been the one. But you would have gotten a great education.


Talk is cheap, reading is good. But to really do this you need to be there. If you want to go for a woman 11 years younger, do it. Enjoy the experience and learn.


I look forward to you making a trip and writing a trip report. Please do before the snow flies. 


HDL

[treadmilldude]

HounddaddyLee, I think my question is an extremely important one. You did not even attempt to answer any portion of it. If you have some time in the next couple of days, I would really appreciate it if you could lend your very sage advice to me (and I am sure MANY other RWD members who have this exact same question but are lurkers and too afraid to ask it). Thank you.

[Boethius]

I think it's a bad idea to use a woman you previously had considered for a romantic relationship as a translator.  It is better to have someone who is completely independent, and, therefore, not emotionally invested in the process.

Again, if you have a couple minutes, please watch the short video by Michael Mordinson in which he goes into great detail about why pursuing a woman who speaks either no or very little English is NOT a bad idea, and how he has had dozens and dozens of happy, successful marriages since 1999 at his agency.

I  doubt he is tracking marriages.  He also wouldn't know whether or not they are happy.  He would say pursue a woman with little English, as those likely are the women on his site.

I suppose much depends on the type of relationship you wish to have, on whether or not language is important to you. 

[Boethius]

As I mentioned in my post from yesterday, if you had visited the Belorussian woman, you would know if the father is really in the picture or just trying for a payday, etc.

But either way, he is stymying the process, largely before any relationship has even developed.  So, going there and discovering the father's motives, if they can indeed be discerned, would not resolve the problem. 

[treadmilldude]

I just found this post by 2TallBill while looking in the section designed for me (Newbie section). It is outstanding. Very good post by Bill. Thought it should be copy and pasted here so ALL newbies on RWD can read and benefit from it.

By 2TallBill:

1. Get some professional photos done with a digital copy so that you
can use them for a profile and for future letters. Don't have them photo shopped
unless you have a bee sting on your nose and that is a rare occurrence. Also get
a number of normal photos of you by the beach, in the forest, the mountains, doing
various things like picnics and barbecues. DON'T include photos of other women unless
they are your Mother, Grandmother or Full sister, or they are older than 80 or less than
8 years old. Do not take photos of your stuff! Your boat, your car, your house, etc.
Don't use non-current photos

2. Get a new email exclusively for your search. Use that new email to start a
new Facebook page. DON'T ask any of your family or friends to your new FB
page. Use the new Facebook page to create an account with Mamba.ru
Don't use your existing FB account or existing email addresses. If you really
want to know why ask me later and I or somebody else will explain. Get a Skype
account and a decent headset and web camera.

3. Learn some Russian There are lots of ways to do this. I like Pimsleur for
conversation and Rosetta Stone for vocabulary. Look on Craigslist or used places
for deals. Rosetta Stone is difficult to buy used on Ebay. Learn the alphabet. It takes
a little time but once you learn it you will be surprised how fast you improve. Talk to
a FSUW and you will start picking up Russian even faster.

4. Make a decision on strategy.

Are you a Visit One (VO) type? with a backup plan or B. a Visit Many (VM) type?
A. A Visit One type writes a zillion girls letters sifting through the girls
who answer, trying to get any high potential girl on the phone or skype as soon as
possible eventually distilling everything down to one excellent girl and then getting
on a plane right away and visiting her. You should NOT fall in love before you meet,
you should be hopefully optimistic but prepared to move on at all times if there is
no chemistry or you find a fatal flaw. (lying, smoking, drug use, having a local
husband) are examples of what might be fatal flaws

If you visit a woman and it doesn't work out you need to use your backup plan. If you
are a crybaby then your backup plan can be to mope around looking at local tourist crap
and take photos and feel sorry for yourself. My advice is that your backup plan should
be to move to a visit many strategy for the remainder of the trip.

I have been on several visit one trips that didn't work out. I've been heartbroken, but
I went to my backup plan and didn't just give up. Give yourself a pep talk then go after
it. I found my wife using my backup plan!

B. A Visit many type This is for guys who would prefer to determine mutual
chemistry first before wasting a lot of time writing letters or makes a great backup
plan for a visit one trip that goes bad. Pick a city with more than 500K people in it
and buy a ticket to the city, arrange for an apartment, a translator, etc. One week
before you leave you write ONE zillion girls who you find attractive and ask them if
they would like to meet you for coffee or tea.

Don't mix visit one and visit many tactics!!!!
Don't write a dozen girls several letters and have skype and phone calls for a
visit many trip. This will usually blow up in your face. If you have questions ask,
Either myself or one of the others can elaborate further.

5. Do NOT recycle girls if you are writing to Sveta in Sochi and Olga in Omsk
and decide to meet Olga and for whatever reason things don't work out with Olga
then don't go back to Sveta. Why? because Sveta was your number two pick. You
don't want a number two girl you want a number one girl. Sveta doesn't want to
be a number two girl either. You picked Olga for a reason, you didn't choose Sveta
for a reason. You want a number one girl. Don't recycle. Find new girls and start over.

6. If you don't have mutual chemistry with Sally move on This is NOT Hollywood.
Sally is not going to suddenly realized you were what she always wanted. If there is
not mutual chemistry on the first date then Dump her forever. Don't waste your
time or her time. If you don't have a date for all day Saturday don't call Sally! don't
call some girl that you've rejected. Spend the time writing more letters.
Even if the girl is so hot that you can't look at her without drooling on your shoes, if
there isn't mutual chemistry between you DON'T ASK HER OUT AGAIN!

7. If you find a beautiful girl with whom you have mutual chemistry and she
passes all the first date tests. Then you stop dating and pursue her exclusively.
Explain to her that you want to spend as much time with her as possible. If she is as
hot about you as you are about her, she will find a way. If she can't find a way then it's
NOT her, dump her and move on.

8. Be ruthless be a gentleman but dump any girl who isn't the future
Mrs______________ your name here. Don't waste her time don't waste your time.
The sooner you get her out of way the sooner both of you can find your future mate.
You are doing her a favor by dumping her and not wasting her time.

9. Don't listen to excuses. if a girl starts making excuses then dump her.
A serious interested girl will find a way and not make excuses. If you need more info
on what I mean then ask and somebody or myself can elaborate further. A serious
good girl will come up with a solution.

10. Get back on a plane to see her again soon It's best if you make plans to
see her again before you even leave. When you leave you are not there! and it's your
job to keep things rolling along. Don't be vague! FSUW don't do vague! Say I am going
to be on a flight to see you on XYZ day and I want you to wear your red dress and black ]
panties and I will be checking the panties. You need to be a man of action! The relationship
is fragile as soon as you leave so make sure she know you are coming back in 2 or 3
months. Call her daily, skype her daily, send her sms daily it's your job to romance her 
and to seduce her. She wants to be romanced and she wants to be seduced!

LASTLY, FSUW are not for entry level daters. You know who you are. If you are considered
gullible by your friends or are socially shy or inept then it might be best to hire a wingman
like Eduard or one of the commercial members here rather than to try this on your own.

Udachi!

Bill

Thank you Bill, excellent post - treadmilldude

[Gator]

I wish every member would share their opinions on the existence of a language barrier between a Western Man and a FSU woman - GOOD or BAD and WHY?

Treadmill, this is Trenchcoat's thread, yet I will answer.  The mods or you may wish to start a new thread using your post to initiate it.

My wife spoke little English when we met for the first time almost 11 years ago.  We have been married five years.

11 yrs - 5 yrs = 6 yrs

Yes, we did not marry until almost six years after we first met.  We are both careful and did not want to rush into marriage; however, that  accounts for only two of the six years.  Because of the lack of a common language we had many misunderstandings.   Twice we broke up, as in breaking off communications and dating others. 

Maybe your relationship with a non-English speaking FSUW will prove smoother.  My wife was 40 when we first met.  A younger woman would perhaps learn English easier.  Also, my wife has two children.  A woman not responsible for two children would have more time to study English. 

The lack of communication will be very frustrating at times.  Thus, both of you must have patience. 

It is paramount that the two of you must be committed to the relationship, fully committed.  This means the two of you will somehow reconcile differences that are inevitable in any relationship.  The lack of commitment is why my wife and I broke up twice.  She was not keen about leaving Russia.   She had a great life there. Almost a celebrity.  Even though over 40, she had many suitors in Russia,  wealthy strong men, trying to convince her that they were better than an older American man.  Nevertheless, the attraction between us was strong and that is why we kept getting back together. 

Would I do it again?   Definitely!  My wife is a phenomenal woman.  She has accomplished so much in life, as have I.  She can be very demanding, so we have many spirited episodes.  Something is working because the love is real.  As partial proof, she and I have been together longer than she has been with any of her three ex-s.   

To summarize Treadmill, a relationship with a woman speaking limited English can work provided:

1.  The first meeting is absolutely perfect with no questions.

2.  The woman is young and has the time to study English on a fast track basis.

3.  You have time to visit her again and again and again to develop the relationship and to determine how dedicated she is to learning English.  This means after doing this for two years you may decide not to marry.   

4.  Both of you have ample patience to work through the inevitable misunderstandings and both of you are committed to the relationship.

5.  All important considerations are good and remain that way (non-verbal communication, physical attraction, fun, aligned goals, common values, reconciliation, wanting to move to America, etc.) 

[2tallbill]

3.  You have time to visit her again and again and again to develop the relationship and to determine how dedicated she is to learning English.  This means after doing this for two years you may decide not to marry.   

4.  Both of you have ample patience to work through the inevitable misunderstandings and both of you are committed to the relationship.

+1

I would submit that number 3 and 4 need to be present in 100% of FSUW
international relationships. The biggest mistake a man or woman can make
is marrying somebody that they don't know. Regardless of English ability there
are going to be misunderstandings and both need ample patience and
commitment to the relationship.

[Anotherkiwi]

As a result, if I limit myself to only women that speak good English, I am effectively eliminating 92% of the women on Mamba right off the bat. That seriously sucks, and I am sure even the members here on RWD who recommend a guy ONLY pursue a woman who speaks good English would agree with that sentiment.

Why does that suck?  Just think for a moment - how many women are on Mamba?  Including all those who live outside the FSU, possibly fifty million? The site is under maintenance as I write this, so I can't check.  Take out 92%, and you still have four million left.  Eliminate those outside the age range you've specified (and obviously those who are married or in a permanent relationship), and you will STILL probably have half a million or more to choose from.  There are probably at least as many more whose English IS of a good enough standard (say 7/10 or better) to be worth checking out if nobody in that first group fits your bill.  If you can't find a potential partner in a pool of a million, you're not trying hard enough.  Mind you, it will take a pretty long time to check out the first half-million!

[treadmilldude]

Kiwi, the pool of women that fit the criteria I am searching for: Female (Not Male - about half of all Mamba members are Males), 29-33, Have pictures, have been online in the last week, speak English is not very big even in Minsk, a huge city of about 1.9 million people. If I could include the other 80% that claim they do not know English, then it does make the pool pretty nicely sized. But by limiting it to only the 20% that do speak English (Mamba is down right now so I cannot give you the exact # that fit those criteria, but it is really not very many.) You think there are 500,000 women, 29-33, speak English and have pictures in Ukraine and Belarus country-wide? Really? I think you need to spend a little more time on Mamba and research some Kiwi. The true number that fit those criteria in an individual city like Kharkiv, or Minsk, or Gomel, or Mogilev, or Vitebsk, or Brest or Hrodna (the cities I am looking in) is VERY SMALL. Less than 250 in the case of Kharkiv and Minsk. Less than about 75 in the case of the other smaller cities. And, I am not picky when it comes to a girl's face or her bust. But I am absolutely picky when it comes to a girl's body - I have never dated a chubby girl, I will not marry a chubby girl. I like slender/skinny girls. Trust me, not every woman of these 250 and these 75 are skinny!! I can promise you many are NOT skinny.

I think in a way it might be a lot of fun and very interesting to meet a girl in Kharkiv or Belarus in August who speaks very little English. As much as I love to hold hands, hug, kiss, cuddle on the couch and take naps together and be extremely affectionate.....I think by being extremely affectionate with the girl, holding her in my arms, giving her back rubs, nibbling on her ears and neck and stomach and legs, whispering in her ears "I love you" and "You are beautiful"......that sweetness, kindness and affection can make up somewhat for the difficulties we will invariably face by not speaking a common language very efficiently.

I believe Michael Mordinson when he says a girl that only speaks a little bit of English, maybe only 25% (in his terms)....is not a worthy enough challenge to prevent me from pursuing her, trying to win her heart and the heart of her Daughter/Son.

Gator was successful, although obviously he struggled with the language barrier with his wife.  But Gator was still very successful and has been happily married for 5 years. If Gator can have success, then it is not totally impossible for me to be able to have success as well. I am just gonna have to work very hard at it, be persistently persistent at it. But most importantly, prove to the young woman who is very weak in English, that I love her with all of my heart, I'll always be by her side 24/7, I'll always be our childrens' side, that yes we are going to struggle initially, but that everything will work itself out in the end and we'll be OK as a couple, we'll be OK as a Husband and Wife. Just instill some confidence in the young woman that we will face the adversity and persevere though it. In the end, we will be a very happy, loving couple and she will eventually become very good at English.

And I will make a giant $500,000 donation to RWD as my sign of appreciation for all the help I received here at this great board. And Dan will most likely be happy to receive the $500,000 donation.

[Larry1]

TMD,

If you are flush enough with cash to make a half million dollar donation to RWD then there is another option for your search.

A Russian guy named Eduard has a service where he looks for fsuw who meet a guy's requirements, contacts them (typically in Russian), then interprets on 3-way phone calls. He will travel with you to interpret with the girl and make accommodations if you like.  Here is his website:

http://www.getrussianwife.com

[treadmilldude]

Larry, my post actually was to get a laugh out of you guys. I thought you'd pick up on my sarcasm.

I am, however, after my first trip, when I get back home, going to make a nice donation to the board, maybe $150. Least I can do to give back, pay it forward, whatever you wanna call it. 

[Anotherkiwi]

Kiwi, the pool of women that fit the criteria I am searching for: Female (Not Male - about half of all Mamba members are Males), 29-33, Have pictures, have been online in the last week, speak English is not very big even in Minsk, a huge city of about 1.9 million people.

I'm sorry - I thought you were serious about this venture.  If you're just going to restrict yourself to one city, or even four or five, of course your options become more limited.  However, even if the numbers are as low as you claim, that should still be a reasonable starting point for you.   I'm very picky, too but, after all, you can't marry all 250 that fit your criteria, can you?  Surely there are SOME within that group that are worth pursuing, at least as a starting point.

[ML]

I'm sorry - I thought you were serious about this venture.  If you're just going to restrict yourself to one city, or even four or five, of course your options become more limited.  However, even if the numbers are as low as you claim, that should still be a reasonable starting point for you.   I'm very picky, too but, after all, you can't marry all 250 that fit your criteria, can you?  Surely there are SOME within that group that are worth pursuing, at least as a starting point.

Not as smooth as you suggest.

Suppose he does contact all of the 250?

He will likely  get a response from maybe 10 of them.

Of those 10, after a couple of messages, he or she will realize there is no mutual interest or some major flaw they can't live with concerning 5 of them.

Then he continues with the 5 and finds that 3 of them start to become very flakey for one reason or another concerning when they can meet, if they can meet, problems with children, ex husbands, etc., etc.

Now he is down to 2.

As the time for travel comes near, one of them tells him he must send her $5,000 to cover cost of her being off work, renting apartment, paying for baby sitter, etc., etc.

Now he is down to 1

He arrives, she takes one look at him as he is coming through customs . . . turns around and leaves.

[Anotherkiwi]

Not as smooth as you suggest.

I didn't actually suggest that it would be smooth.  We all know that it's not.

Now he is down to 1

He arrives, she takes one look at him as he is coming through customs . . . turns around and leaves.

Them's the breaks!    As you and 2tallbill are fond of saying (in different ways), rinse and repeat until such time as you've found THE one.  Hopefully it doesn't take too long, otherwise you risk being, or settling for, CLOSE ENOUGH.

[2tallbill]

Some guys on RWD have given the advice to not ever pursue a FSU woman who does not speak pretty good English.

There are two schools of thought regarding pursuing girls who speak English vs those
that don't, just like there are two schools of thought regarding visit many vs visit one.

There have been a hundred threads about the English girls vs non. For the very tuned
in, non-gullible, guy who can spend a lot of time visiting the FSU and getting to know
his girl while she learns English can cast a larger net by looking at every girl and picking
the best.

NOTE: I am making up the X,Y,X and H classifications. These classifications are
unrelated to anything written elsewhere. I just did it for descriptive purposes only.

Group X guys can visit the FSU 4-5 times a year, they can spend all the time they
need to develop a relationship and they are good at developing relationship, they
are very good at reading eyes and body language. They can speak and read enough
Russian to get around and they are fairly good at making an educated guess and
rolling with whatever happens.

Group Y guys have one or more of the following
They can visit the FSU but not as often as group X
They are ok at building relationships but not great at it
They are ok at reading body language and eyes but not great

Group Z guys are mediocre at best at building relationships and reading people
and their intents. These guys should ONLY seek English speaking girls, unless they
plan on moving to the FSU.

Strategy H guys go after the hottest, youngest, tastiest girl that will respond to them.
This is usually a mistake unless the hot, young, tasty girl is really, really into them.

If a guy is a group Z guy AND a strategy H guy then he is doomed unless he has
lottery ticket winner type luck. 99.9% of the time he will fail. He has no idea if the
girl is really into him and he will almost always f#ck it up.

So, what's the purpose of all this?

In 2tallbills opinion,

Type X guys will succeed in the end. They can pursue girls with limited English in the
beginning. He can spend the extra time while the girl builds her English and he can
tell if she is making progress. He will read the situation and determine if the girl is
worth the time and effort.

Type Y guys are going to struggle more if they go after girls without any English skills.
They need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of this.

Type Z guys better only seek girls with good English.

Those are my two kopecks,

Bill

[ML]

Here is a strategy that works better than any of Big Bill's.

Go after FSU gals who speak Chinese.

Then you don't have to worry about not understanding Russian or Ukrainian.

[Gator]

I am making up the X,Y,X and H classifications. These classifications are
unrelated to anything written elsewhere. I just did it for descriptive purposes only.

Excellent.

Men in general have an inflated view of their worth.  To become an X, a man needs to progress through Z and then Y.  Achieving an  X grade  is no guarantee of success.  However,  keep trying and somehow magic happens. 

[HoundDaddyLee]

Bill left out another group. The person who can visit 2, maybe 3 times a year and are good at building relationships. I fall into this category. As many have said before me. In America most people are lucky to get 3 weeks of vacation a year.


HDL

[Anotherkiwi]

In America most people are lucky to get 3 weeks of vacation a year.

I know this is perhaps slightly off-topic, but why is this?  Although it's common in Asia to have fewer vacation days, or to not use them all (especially in Japan), the rest of the western world is long past that stage.  New Zealand workers have a minimum of four weeks' annual leave (which is generally the maximum as well), legislated years ago by Parliament.  Australia is the same, but their civil servants get a minimum of five weeks.  The European nations, which some of you decry as being too socialist, somehow manage to allow their workers to take five or six weeks' leave, plus they have more public holidays than anywhere else, and yet their industries generally cope perfectly well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annual_leave

An extract from the preamble to the article indicates that the USA is not the best country to work in if you want real time to recharge your batteries:

The vast majority of countries today mandate a minimum amount of paid annual leave by law, though the United States is a notable exception in mandating no minimum paid leave and treating it as a perk rather than a right.

It appears that personnel in your Armed Forces are the only ones who have a statutory right to decent holidays, so it begs the question of how most of you managed to find time to go the FSU and hunt for a wife.  Surely not all the US members are self-employed!

[Jumper]

TMD-



Yes! if you want to avoid all possibility of divorce,
the best method is to never marry.
Certainly to avoid serious contact with all FSU women,
 as as a generality they are marriage minded. lol

We really do give great fundamental advice here right?

Jumper, you said you would never be with a 27 year-old woman, but that you are older than me. Do you mind me asking how old you are, and how old you and your pretty FSU Wife were when ya'll got married? Is your lovely Wife honest with you by admitting the biggest mistake she ever made in her life was marrying a dork like you Jumper?

   

 I think you have me confused with another poster.

 1.My post (just above your response to me)
 outlined my age and my wife's age when we met.
We met in 2010 ,married in 2011, so you can do the math ,if interested, to get our ages when married, and currently.
 

2. WHOA there, lol I never said i would not consider a 27 yo women!!
I've never held a woman's age against her!lol  and that would be rather silly since I had just posted my wife was 28 when we met. It's why I stated I don't feel an 11 year age gap is even any real consideration if a couple is compatible otherwise.

3. My wife is brutally honest with me,it's a common trait in FSU women actually.
One thing i'm sure of is she doesn't consider me dorkish,lol
with her personality, that would be a deal breaker to any relationships beginnings.
 Now I'll grant you that i'm an idiot, and it's within the realm of possibility that she may regret her decision to marry me.  I mean i'm always surprised at the generosity of womankind.