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Author Topic: Financial responibility of a future spouses welfare and social services question  (Read 38591 times)

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Offline 52topps

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I don't have any problems putting her name on the gas, electric bill, cable bill, joint checking account,savings accounts her own Roth IRa which I will contribute to for her,  and she will have her name on her vehicle. My home will be paid for, I do not think I will need to change the title of my home and add her to it to prove the she deserves a green card. Tons of people get green cards without having a home. What if they live in an apartment or rent a condo. All those Mexican don't own homes and live 20 to a home if they do! They still get a green card.

The title revocable or irrevocable only means it can be changed or not changed. It doesn't mean my assets are at risk. I will be the executor of the trust and my home will be in it and my Roth IRA.  I only have one property.

My kids and I have a good relationship now and in the future it will be even stronger. My knowledge of money and investing will benefit them in every single way.

I believe I need to show co-mingling of some assets but it says nothing about a home. I also didn't check out the whole site. If you can find it let me know.

Adjustment of Status

The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) permits the change of an individual's immigration status while in the United States from nonimmigrant or parolee (temporary) to immigrant (permanent) if the individual was inspected and admitted or paroled into the United States and is able to meet all required qualifications for a green card (permanent residence) in a particular category. The common term for a change to permanent status is “adjustment of status.”

The INA provides an individual two primary paths to permanent resident status. Adjustment of status is the process by which an eligible individual already in the United States can get permanent resident status (a green card) without having to return to their home country to complete visa processing.

Consular processing is an alternate process for an individual outside the United States (or who is in the United States but is ineligible to adjust status) to obtain a visa abroad and enter the United States as a permanent resident) This pathway is referred to as “consular processing."
Steps for Adjustment of Status

4. File Form I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residency or Adjust Status
Regardless of whether a petition must be filed and approved prior to your filing Form I-485 or whether it may be filed concurrently, you will need to apply for permanent residence on Form I-485 at the appropriate time.

Note: There are a few categories which may require a different form than Form I-485.

When filing Form I-485, you must read the form instructions carefully and submit all required documentation and evidence required for your particular category.  Failure to do so may result in your application being delayed or possibly denied for failure to establish that you are eligible to adjust status.

To learn more about filing, see the Form I-485 page.

5. Go to your Application Support Center appointment (fingerprints)
After you file your application, you will be notified to appear at an Application Support Center for biometrics collection, which usually involves having your picture and signature taken and being fingerprinted.  This information will be used to conduct your required security checks and for eventual creation of a green card, employment authorization (work permit) or advance parole document.

6. Go to your interview (if applicable)
You may be notified of the date, time, and location for an interview at a USCIS office to answer questions under oath or affirmation regarding your application. You must attend all interviews when you receive a notice.

When you come to your interview, you (and the family member that filed the Form I-130 petition on your behalf, if applicable) must bring originals of all documentation submitted with this application including passports, official travel documents, and Form I-94 regardless if they are expired.

Not all applications require an interview. USCIS officials will review your case to determine if it meets one of the exceptions.

7. Get you final decision in the mail
After all paperwork has been received, interviews conducted (if necessary), security checks completed, and other eligibility requirements reviewed, your case will be ready for a decision by USCIS.  In all cases, you will be notified of the decision in writing.

The granting of permanent residency is generally recorded as the date that you became a permanent resident.  Refugees and certain humanitarian parolees (e.g. Cuban, Lautenberg) will have their date of adjustment of status recorded as that of their entry into the United States as a refugee. Asylees, whether the principal filer or his/her derivatives, will have their date of adjustment recorded as 1 year prior to the date of being granted permanent residence.

Offline 52topps

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I found this guys.: But I can't find anything super specific about her name on a house. Help me find that information.

Inadmissibility as a Factor Leading to Denial

No matter how neatly you fit into a category of eligibility for a U.S. green card, you must also show that you're not inadmissible to the United States -- in other words, that you don't pose a danger to U.S. society on financial, health, security, immigration violation, or criminal grounds.

Perfectly ordinary people are found inadmissible -- this isn't just something that happens to criminals or terrorists. For example, if you conceal something on your application, have tuberculosis, overstayed a visa by six months or more, or you and your family sponsor can't show enough income and assets to cover your household expenses in the United States, you might be found inadmissible. A waiver (legal forgiveness) may be available in some cases, but these require extra documentation and are not always granted.

You are definitely facing a denial if you have committed certain crimes, like aggravated felonies, drug crimes, or acts of terrorism.

Offline BillyB

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Alex brought up a really good point.   For her to get her green card you do need to prove a valid marriage by showing that your assets are commingled.   When we did that I showed my wife's name on one utility bill.  I showed her name on one property (which wasn't our main residence) and showed us having a joint checking account. 


if you don't do that the odds of her getting a green card are slim.

Had my wife's name on two cars, utility bill, and bank and credit cards. Supplied plenty of photos during out travels. Supplied our communication messages and emails from the beginning and he did read them before the interview. No name on house and she got green card. She was interviewed for 5 minutes and I was interviewed for 30 minutes. They interviewer was curious how I landed a smokinhotkova.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline 52topps

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I think if I do what you did then I will be ok and she will be ok, Thanks BillyB

Offline BillyB

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Several posters have indicated that women get an unfair advantage in the settlement . . . even not considering any children.  And I know this to be true.

The reasoning is that judges know that women's groups will raise hell and insure that any judge who does not favor women will not be elected or appointed in the next go around.


Family court judges are allowed lots of "discretion" and if they stray from the law, it's usually in favor of the women for the reasons you described. A guy should get a trial by jury for a divorce if his state allows it. A jury is more likely than a judge to stick with the state guidelines since they have no political ambitions. They are more likely to value a prenup.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Boethius

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But Boe surely you know this is not true.

Several posters have indicated that women get an unfair advantage in the settlement . . . even not considering any children.  And I know this to be true.

The reasoning is that judges know that women's groups will raise hell and insure that any judge who does not favor women will not be elected or appointed in the next go around.

Men on the other hand, are the real pussies in this, because there do not exist men's groups that will march and carry banners to protest the unfair treatment.

OK, yes there are some men's groups, but they have been ineffective.


No, I don't accept your premise. 


Assets and debt are generally split 50/50 in non community property jurisdictions.  Unequal distributions may result from valuation issues (number 1 in disputes), or because a woman generally is the custodial parent, so will also be receiving maintenance for children and, at times, alimony.
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Offline 52topps

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In my case I'm going to find a woman who does not have young children and she will sign away alimony in a prenup.

While I do agree that some court favor women, yes they do. But things are changing. I had two male judges for my divorce. I don't feel they were sexist leaning towards women. I do not have experience with female judges.

Offline Boethius

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You say you are going to put everything into a trust.   Will that be a revocable or irrevocable trust?  If it is revocable it won't mean much since it can be "revoked".  If it is irrevocable those assets aren't really yours anymore.  You have the right to use them and to profit from them but you don't own them anymore.   I am guessing the ownership would pass to your kids.   So what happens if 10 years from now your kids don't speak to you anymore and hate your guts and your wife turns out to the the most loving supporting person in the world that you would like to pass things to if you had not created the trust.


That's a good point.  Others are, will the transfer be tax deferred?  If a home is transferred, is interest still deductible?  In Canada, inter vivos trusts are taxed at the top marginal rate.  Is this the case in the U.S. as well?  There are other issues that can arise which I won't bother addressing.  These are the ones that jumped out.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline 52topps

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Good points. I will have it paid off before going into the Trust.

Ok I looked it up Taxes on gains in a trust are 23.3% even if my income is in the 15% or the 49% bracket.

Well I will need to look into that. The trust is for protection. As long as nothing is being sold I don't pay the tax and the assets like a Roth will grow tax free for years.

I wonder if my Roth is in a Trust do I pay taxes on it when I take it out at 70 1/2. I will need to look into that. Good questions.

If it can't be in the Trust then I will have it in the prenup. I'm not worried.

The point is to make the effort to protect a few items. 

I can only think of a few things that need total protection in the event of a divorce
Home
Roth IRA
401K
Alimony Which I'm never gonna pay if I can avoid it.
All other stuff falls under the "it was mine before marriage category"

Everything else I will share with her.  But core wealth she don't have the right to take it if she leaves.  We can share it over our life time but she can't keep it.

Offline ML

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No, I don't accept your premise. 


Assets and debt are generally split 50/50 in non community property jurisdictions.  Unequal distributions may result from valuation issues (number 1 in disputes), or because a woman generally is the custodial parent, so will also be receiving maintenance for children and, at times, alimony.

I do not have huge experience, but I know of 5 guys who did not get a 50/50 split in non community property states.

1) The man had substantial inherited assets before marriage.
Those were supposed to be outside the accounting.
But male judge said, you have all of that, so I am giving wife 90% of the assets accumulated jointly after marriage.
He knew perfectly well this was favoring the woman.

2) Man and wife had substantial liquid assets and substantial non liquid assets.
Female judge gave wife all the liquid assets which were after taxes and the man the non liquid assets.  To realize the value of the non liquid assets the man had to invest substantial additional money and hundreds of hours of time to realize the money, and then pay taxes on the gain.  He ended up with about 25 percent of the marital property and the wife got 75 percent.  Plus she only had to write checks or do bank transfers to have spending money compared to his 2 years or so of labor.

Yes, on first accounting, the wife and her lawyers could claim it was 50/50, but not after taxes, development costs, taxes, etc.
The female judge just said that was too complicated to deal with, so she would only look at the pretax numbers, ignoring  liquidity, etc.  Of course she knew she was screwing the man and favoring the woman.
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Offline Boethius

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Actually no, that judge may not have understood that.


I run into lawyers all the time who don't understand this.  Or business in general.  In your friend's case, I would blame his lawyer for not explaining this adequately.
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Offline BillyB

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Unequal distributions may result from valuation issues (number 1 in disputes),


That unequal distribution comes from having a judge who used "discretion" when determining value.

Let's say a house is worth $400k with 200k equity and $200k owed to the bank according to the man's expert witness appraiser but the woman's attorney hired and expert appraiser who valued the house at $600k which means there is $400k equity in the house but that appraiser is not knowledgeable when it comes to wetlands which make most of the property undevelopable. The judge sides with the expert who valued the property at $600k. The man knowing he is getting shafted pleads with the judge to let the wife be in charge of the selling of the house and split money 50/50 after the bank takes their cut. The judge refuses and puts the man in charge of selling the house. The man has to sell the house at fair market value of $400k. Because the judge ruled fair market value is $600k which means there's $400k equity, the couple should each get $200k after the sale but the house sold for $400k which means the man must pay the woman $200k and he gets nothing for a 100/0 split in favor of the women.

This scenario happened to me except the numbers were different. My ex got $150,000 after the sale of the home and I got $1500. This stuff happens and people need to protect themselves from judges who are biased.

Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline 52topps

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I can understand that. Taxes are a big thing.

I really don't mind sharing my money. But I'm going to try and limit any loss in the event of a divorce. That's all. My lady isn't going to be sleeping outside in the cold like a lost kitten.

Offline 52topps

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I'm sorry Billy B.  Did you have a prenup? Was the house yours full and paid for before the marriage?

Offline Turboguy

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I think if you do what you mentioned the Green card should go through fine.  I did not have my wife's name on our house.  I had the house long before I married her.   We did transfer a vacant lot in Florida from my Mom to my wife and I and since we did have property together I did submit that.  I am sure it may possibly have helped but there are a lot of renters who don't own a home.  Of course if someone rents and is applying for a green card a lease or rental agreement in both names would be a plus.  We have since bought another house and the new house is in both names as it should be.


I am not much of an expert on Divorce.  I have only done it once and hope it stays that way.  Here in PA the judge usually doesn't decide the asset split.  I is most always worked out between the lawyers and submitted to the judge for approval.  The one who wins is often the one who wants out of the marriage the worst or the one that is most stubborn.   My divorce was about 50/50.  My ex got the assets and I got the payments for them.  What could be more fair?  Actually it was about 70% to her and 30% or less to me but I was fine with that and just wanted it behind me.  I also knew I had a lot more earning potential ahead of me than she did.  One of the problems can be when someone is stubborn the lawyers are the ones who gain.  I know of one Ukrainian girl (and brief former poster on RWD) who spent $ 15,000 in legal fees (hers and his) arguing about who owned the snow shovel. (Or so she told me)  She did get the snow shovel however so it was worth every penny.


Going back to the revocable trust vs irrevocable trust an irrevocable trust would be worthless in protecting your assets since you can end it or change it at will.  With an irrevocable trust you are stuck with what you set up.  Lets say you marry a 40 year old woman and you live to 90 and she has dotted over you for 40 years and was the most wonderful wife you could ever have wanted.  In the meantime your kids started a hot internet social site and were worth billions.   So your house and all your savings are going to your kids while your wife of all those years is going rely on Social security and live in low income housing and get her groceries with food stamps.  Since the trust needs to be irrevocable you can't change that even if you want to.

Offline BillyB

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I'm sorry Billy B.  Did you have a prenup? Was the house yours full and paid for before the marriage?

No prenup but I bought the house before we got married. It wasn't paid off. We were living together when I purchased the house and although names on our cars and financial issues were separate. I paid the mortgage and utilities. The judge decided we were legally husband and wife before we actually got married just because we were living together. It was his way of getting her something big. On his courtroom walls he has awards hanging given to him from women's activist groups. He had a newspaper clipping that quotes a woman's activist group saying he's the most compassionate and fair judge. I'm sure he'll get a lot of votes when he gets into politics. I'm not saying everybody will get a judge like that but lots of them do exist and they use discretion to stray from the state's guidelines to distributing assets and factoring alimony.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline alex330

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Had my wife's name on two cars, utility bill, and bank and credit cards. Supplied plenty of photos during out travels. Supplied our communication messages and emails from the beginning and he did read them before the interview. No name on house and she got green card. She was interviewed for 5 minutes and I was interviewed for 30 minutes. They interviewer was curious how I landed a smokinhotkova.


We had my wife's name on most utilities, joint bank account, health insurance, many airline tickets, and more photos than a Japanese tour group in Hawaii. It was not enough. They wanted to see us with a child or more commingled assets. I had to add my wife to the deed giving her 50% of the house.


In the end it comes down to the nice lady doing the interview that day. Everyone will have a different experience depending on that one govt worker and whether she got her dunkin donuts coffee that morning or not.

Offline alex330

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I believe I need to show co-mingling of some assets but it says nothing about a home. I also didn't check out the whole site. If you can find it let me know.

You won't find that info on the site probably. They will request it with an RFE or the person doing the interview will decide what evidence they want from you. It does not NEED to be a home, they list several options. A home or a child is a pretty good sign you are actually married though.

A RW we know missed her interview recently. She told them a white lie. Her grandfather died and she was upset. They asked for his death certificate. They can ask for almost anything they want if they are suspicious.

The first green card is easy. The 10 year they scrutinize more carefully. We visited our house rep for help and although he was useless, his aide did give us some advice. Apply for citizenship instead. Easier to get than the 10 year green card many times.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:00:05 PM by alex330 »

Offline Turboguy

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The first green card is easy. The 10 year they scrutinize more carefully. We visited our house rep for help and although he was useless, his aide did give us some advice. Apply for citizenship instead. Easier to get than the 10 year green card many times.
I agree with you that Citizenship is probably less grueling than the 10 year green card.  However you generally apply for the 10 year green card 90 days before the 2 year green card expires and since the first green card is for two years and citizenship needs either 5 years or being a resident or 3 years with an American spouse that leaves a year or more that someone would be out of status and subject to deportation doesn't it?

Offline Trenchcoat

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I do not have huge experience, but I know of 5 guys who did not get a 50/50 split in non community property states.

1) The man had substantial inherited assets before marriage.
Those were supposed to be outside the accounting.
But male judge said, you have all of that, so I am giving wife 90% of the assets accumulated jointly after marriage.
He knew perfectly well this was favoring the woman.

2) Man and wife had substantial liquid assets and substantial non liquid assets.
Female judge gave wife all the liquid assets which were after taxes and the man the non liquid assets.  To realize the value of the non liquid assets the man had to invest substantial additional money and hundreds of hours of time to realize the money, and then pay taxes on the gain.  He ended up with about 25 percent of the marital property and the wife got 75 percent.  Plus she only had to write checks or do bank transfers to have spending money compared to his 2 years or so of labor.

Yes, on first accounting, the wife and her lawyers could claim it was 50/50, but not after taxes, development costs, taxes, etc.
The female judge just said that was too complicated to deal with, so she would only look at the pretax numbers, ignoring  liquidity, etc.  Of course she knew she was screwing the man and favoring the woman.

Which is exactly why I asked the question about how to protect your finances. Important I think that we cover the not so romantic but practical stuff. Before I submitted that thread I thought that there were likely no way to protect your finances so it was helpful of you to help us out of that one. No guy should be done over like this for simply pursuing genuine search for love and happiness I think. The divorce law in the US & UK are so arcane and need changing to not make them such a heavy punishment on the man I think.
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Offline ML

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Actually no, that judge may not have understood that.


I run into lawyers all the time who don't understand this.  Or business in general.  In your friend's case, I would blame his lawyer for not explaining this adequately.

In both cases I wrote about, the men's lawyers did argue long and hard for their clients and pointed out the error of counting the man's pre-existing inheritance and the mismatching of before tax and development cost values with after tax values.  But the judge ignored and went with the woman's numbers.

Both men could have appealed, but were advised by their lawyers that appeals were rarely successful and would be costly to pursue.

I know of at least 3 other cases with the same very distorted outcome for the men . . . but I don't have the detailed info for those.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:32:29 PM by ML »
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Offline alex330

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I agree with you that Citizenship is probably less grueling than the 10 year green card.  However you generally apply for the 10 year green card 90 days before the 2 year green card expires and since the first green card is for two years and citizenship needs either 5 years or being a resident or 3 years with an American spouse that leaves a year or more that someone would be out of status and subject to deportation doesn't it?

In our case there were delays (biometrics, she does not fingerprint for some reason) so my wife only had maybe 6 months left before the 3 year mark. With the RFE and possible denial we were advised by the aide to pursue citizenship as soon as we hit that three year mark.

Here in Florida they do not deport anyone that is out of status unless there is a crime or some event. You just cannot leave the country.

I ended adding her to the deed, a living will, and a few other docs and kicked it back. They could not dispute that and issued her 10 year green card.

This is all recent, we are going through the process right now. We are pursuing citizenship this month actually. Not because my wife wants a blue passport, but she is tired of applying for Schengen for her work.

Offline alex330

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We know many guys who marry foreign women. What they do to protect their assets is marry and live in a third country where neither is a citizen. Only sure way to protect yourself I am told. 

Offline Turboguy

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Here in Florida they do not deport anyone that is out of status unless there is a crime or some event. You just cannot leave the country.

This is all recent, we are going through the process right now. We are pursuing citizenship this month actually. Not because my wife wants a blue passport, but she is tired of applying for Schengen for her work.


It is always nice to get that Blue passport.  For us we were happy just to never have to deal with the USCIS again.  I think they are pretty lax at deporting anyone and I am sure that would work for you but may not be the best choice for someone who is able to get the Green Card without problems.  When we had our 10 year green card interview they grilled us for over an hour and had people backed up waiting.  We were approved however.

Offline Boethius

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In both cases I wrote about, the men's lawyers did argue long and hard for their clients and pointed out the error of counting the man's pre-existing inheritance and the mismatching of before tax and development cost values with after tax values.  But the judge ignored and went with the woman's numbers.

Both men could have appealed, but were advised by their lawyers that appeals were rarely successful and would be costly to pursue.

I know of at least 3 other cases with the same very distorted outcome for the men . . . but I don't have the detailed info for those.


A judge may also have taken into account the man's ability to generate more income in the future, vs the woman's.


I have structured a lot of divorce settlements (where the parties have agreed on how they will divide assets).  Usually, I am implementing the tax plan.  In almost all those cases, the man comes out ahead, though it isn't always evident at the time of structuring.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2016, 01:48:11 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

 

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