Dragonkid's Theories of Life

[Boethius]

You're considerably younger, don't have "baggage" (a divorce, kids), you aren't necessarily looking for marriage, which is different from almost all the posters here, and you are willing to live in Russia, which most men here are not willing to do.

[dragonkid]

You're considerably younger, don't have "baggage" (a divorce, kids), you aren't necessarily looking for marriage, which is different from almost all the posters here, and you are willing to live in Russia, which most men here are not willing to do.

Yes, i will be able to spend time to find a person maybe who will love me unconditionally, rather than the escape i will offer them. It does feel sort of good knowing that the majority of women don't really mind, and still want to date. It is something i never thought was possible for a guy my age (older guys are different, FSUW know they have investments back home). The problem i had with this search is, i never really thought of it as genuine love, i am the sort of guy that would love a genuine sort of love, not something i had to pay to get. I mean, at the end of the day what is the point paying? Rather just date and not get married, live in the delusion and have your fun. It is something i still don't understand, whether conditional love is real or not. The longer i spend on here, read some peoples background stories,FSUW leaving their local partners for new western men who are better providers. How peoples incomes drop, businesses took a hit, how expectations are not met, and fsuw leave. I just feel like it is not really my sort of thing. It might be the new modern way of relationships operating these days in fsu, but i don't know, it just seems strange to me, in between sugar babe and a wife in a way. I know it sounds weird to say, but i prefer a love like something you and your husband have, my parents for example, that is the sort of dating i did prior to fsu dating. You begin to understand why some billionaires marry their partners they had before their financial success.

[Faux Pas]

Yes, i will be able to spend time to find a person maybe who will love me unconditionally, rather than the escape i will offer them. It does feel sort of good knowing that the majority of women don't really mind, and still want to date. It is something i never thought was possible for a guy my age (older guys are different, FSUW know they have investments back home). The problem i had with this search is, i never really thought of it as genuine love, i am the sort of guy that would love a genuine sort of love, not something i had to pay to get. I mean, at the end of the day what is the point paying? Rather just date and not get married, live in the delusion and have your fun. It is something i still don't understand, whether conditional love is real or not. The longer i spend on here, read some peoples background stories,FSUW leaving their local partners for new western men who are better providers. How peoples incomes drop, businesses took a hit, how expectations are not met, and fsuw leave. I just feel like it is not really my sort of thing. It might be the new modern way of relationships operating these days in fsu, but i don't know, it just seems strange to me, in between sugar babe and a wife in a way. I know it sounds weird to say, but i prefer a love like something you and your husband have, my parents for example, that is the sort of dating i did prior to fsu dating. You begin to understand why some billionaires marry their partners they had before their financial success.

The 800 lb gorilla in the room is this; why are you in this "search" at this point in your life anyway? You are a mid-20's guy and from your description fairly successful and financially comfortable. Relatively good looking guy for mid 20s, never married, no kids, sharp wit and quite arrogant. The gorilla is this; why aren't you giving the 18-30 year old high style beautiful British women a turn? Do not say there aren't any, or they are all fat or they don't understand you. I know better. I've been to England and I saw them. Are they not interested in you? What's going on there?

Here's the deal, most of the guys here on the forum have at least 1 failed marriage, most of which produced kids. Some of us lost some hair and put on a few extra pounds. Some a lot of hair and pounds. Most of us are quite older than you. In fact you could be the off spring of most posters here. Most here have forgotten more experience than you could have possibly obtained so far. Most of us looked East because we could upgrade our possibilities doing  so. Some go for the ultimate upgrade, a woman 20-30 years younger, arm candy for all their friends. Others sought a classier, more attractive, more educated woman than they have access to at home with a 0-10 years age gap.

Now please be honest and tell me, what drives you? Do you have game at home? Do you date many of the Brit woman at all? If so, why look East and if not, why not? I find you to be unnatural unless there is something you're not telling us. If your personality is much the same in person as it is online could be one reason but, I suspect that isn't so. What's up brah?

[Jumper]

Yes, i will be able to spend time to find a person maybe who will love me unconditionally, rather than the escape i will offer them. It does feel sort of good knowing that the majority of women don't really mind, and still want to date. It is something i never thought was possible for a guy my age (older guys are different, FSUW know they have investments back home). The problem i had with this search is, i never really thought of it as genuine love, i am the sort of guy that would love a genuine sort of love, not something i had to pay to get. I mean, at the end of the day what is the point paying? Rather just date and not get married, live in the delusion and have your fun. It is something i still don't understand, whether conditional love is real or not. The longer i spend on here, read some peoples background stories,FSUW leaving their local partners for new western men who are better providers. How peoples incomes drop, businesses took a hit, how expectations are not met, and fsuw leave. I just feel like it is not really my sort of thing. It might be the new modern way of relationships operating these days in fsu, but i don't know, it just seems strange to me, in between sugar babe and a wife in a way. I know it sounds weird to say, but i prefer a love like something you and your husband have, my parents for example, that is the sort of dating i did prior to fsu dating. You begin to understand why some billionaires marry their partners they had before their financial success.

Sure there are added obstacles anytime a wealthy man searches in a significantly different income bracket. Plus he can run into this searching a street over locally.

I've always said a more average income guy has less to worry about in this venture, but the reality is it simply exchanges one set of possible issues for another?
I do know men that their FSUW paid for them to come see them,
paid for everything all thru ..including her own flight here, worked pretty much as soon as they stepped foot here etc, and they are still happily married with children.  Anything is possible.
 
Most of the world isn't wealthy.
Their issues in finding love might not be as complex as the wealthy, but still abound. A million songs ,poems, novels,  abound on the subject for
hundreds of years (if not thousands) proving this.

I don't think FSU women are prone to leaving during economic hardship.
Yet we've seen it often on such forms.
My speculation as to the various reasons?
1. This is the one you mentioned, that the women wasn't truly in love and followed a better life or better opportunity/best opportunity at the time scenario.
I do think its a bit more common in the MOB arena than regular life,
just because of *what* would attract a women to look elsewhere in the first place has some bearing on it?  but this stuff  happens enough in regular life as well.
2. Economic difficulties can strain most any marriage- money problems are often citing as a #1 or #2 cause for divorce. So of course marriages thru this method  wouldn't be any more immune to that than  other means of meeting initially.


  As far as older guys, the ones looking that actually travel to the FSU,
generally tend to be above average income.
Yet I know several local couples that are below average income and had no problems and going on a decade or more of marriage.
Even if the relationships fail at some point, its no different than a local marriage and very unlikely to have anything to do with this venture or economics.


I truly don't think most women in the FSU will pull up roots and relocate to the unknown, *just* for possible opportunity.
 Most are just like anyone else , hoping for a good solid relationship.

Basically 1000 words to just say:

I wouldn't over generalize.

[dragonkid]

why aren't you giving the 18-30 year old high style beautiful British women a turn? Do not say there aren't any, or they are all fat or they don't understand you. I know better. I've been to England and I saw them. Are they not interested in you? What's going on there?

I dated attractive women by british standards,two of which were fsu (Latvian and bulgarian), in some ways some of them were better than some of the fsuw i come across. I found fsu search after googling Bulgarian women which was my last ex in the UK, and thought it looked fun. The key is the ease of dating, if i find someone that i don't like, i can go on to the next and find someone i do like. I like the ease of just being able to date, and not be tied down. I always defended western women on here, even got in heated debates in chat with guys who thought they could bash the women. Truth is there are plenty of amazing women, but my focus is on fsu. It is hard for me to let go, my focus is there and i don't want to budge.

Now please be honest and tell me, what drives you? Do you have game at home? Do you date many of the Brit woman at all? If so, why look East and if not, why not? I find you to be unnatural unless there is something you're not telling us. If your personality is much the same in person as it is online could be one reason but, I suspect that isn't so. What's up brah?

Answered it above, but just to add, i am not financially tied down to the UK, i can relocate and still get a bit of money from stuff here. So the move for me is good unless i could financially justify living here, which for the meanwhile i can, but soon it will be done for me. i am not going to do the rat race, i am comfortable with what i have, if i save and reinvest wisely, time i am in my later years, i will have more than i can spend. I am going to try and do something in the fsu by studying programming, getting some skills, and try and do some projects with locals and use my business mind and hopefully programming skills. At the moment the key for me is just trying to be smart, not get into a a marriage that could take away my financial freedom, and slowly develop my financial power by gaining skills, and reinvesting what i have. I have no clue what will happen in 10 years time to me, i am just going with my gut and what makes me happy, whilst trying to improve financially at the same time, i feel like fsu might do that for me.

[dragonkid]

I agree, sometimes the wealthy guys preach that you need x,y,z, but i know one guy on here that let a woman go because he was too cautious. He might of been right to do so, my belief is it was a conditional sort of love, but what will he do with his money after he dies? I am generalising, i didn't rule out that it is possible to find unconditional love in fsu. You mention that most marriages struggle, true but here are a few points.the average UK household has income of $31k a year not $120k which guys here say you need. When the recession hit those $31k a year families, divorce jumped 5% in the UK, here guys have a more than $31k a year, but as soon as the hit i would bet good money that a lot of the marriages failed. I don't blame the women wanting more, but it does make me a little sick knowing it is conditional love, it might work out for some and they are good at deluding themselves. For me i can't, i always just look at the facts, i wouldn't see myself marrying a person if the love is conditional, i wasn't brought up to believe love is that, nor was my previous relationships like that.

I would say if love is conditional, not only is is strange, but it is stupid, it is the worse type of investment a man could make. Rather not marry at all, your money grows , her looks fade, that is the investment you are making, a depreciating asset, which is only good if you can feed off the delusion. Not all the marriages on here are like that, i know your story, your background, i could see why a woman would want to be with you, but for a lot of others, after i learn about what is actually going on in their relationships, i just realise it is not my sort of thing.

[Jumper]

 I think its more if your partner loves you and has real faith in you.
I can make a good amount one year and zero the next,
then fine again the next , just the nature of things.
 I can tell you with certainty if I lost my job (it happens in my biz all the time) My wife would jump right in and go back to work, nyet problemo. or we would down size the house etc, not even a issue with it.at all.Just like MOST couples in the FSU. In fact they are more accustomed to such things of that nature being transient and not permanent,(boom or bust) than western people for the most part.
I see that *get thru diversity* trait over and over again,  in most of her friends in the FSU, or here in the US.
It's the outlier that bails easily. (although on these forums it seems common)
 
So to me it's not some general thing  for that society to bail at the first hint of economic hard times, in fact  the opposite is the more general trait.
 
  *If* ( not saying its true, but that's what is being postulated)
so *if*  western  men are finding FSU women that bail so easily ,
which is not a cultural norm, then it's in how they are looking,
what stage the relationships are at, how well the relationship  are grounded,  or if they are picking physical characteristics over character or personality traits, etc etc etc

Normal average FSU marriages fail just like any other country,
 certainly money problems can be a cause,
but its not some common trait for a FSU women to bail out of a marriage at the first economic hiccup if food is on the table and a
 roof over the families heads.

This should not be a normal mans concern going into such a marriage.   His concern should be whether the marriage is founded on
mutual life goals, and a real , and solid, relationship.

Everything else is mostly white noise and pretty easy to over come.

I real relationship is not difficult to obtain with a FSUW.

You seem to have a bit of a jaded view of these being mostly marriages of convenience, and I'm sure that exists,
yet the majority of couples we've known the opposite is true. Many have had hard times, or bumps in the road but persevered, many doing quite well now.

[BillyB]

Many have had hard times, or bumps in the road but persevered, many doing quite well now.

A good woman will stick with her man during difficult times if he's the type of guy who will get up after a fall. Some men are hard for a woman to stick with if they're deadbeats or  can't keep a job if they're always getting fired for being lazy or having attitude problems. In some cases no matter how good a man is, if he has a period of unemployment, his wife will move on to a man that can keep her in style.

[Faux Pas]

I dated attractive women by british standards,two of which were fsu (Latvian and bulgarian), in some ways some of them were better than some of the fsuw i come across. I found fsu search after googling Bulgarian women which was my last ex in the UK, and thought it looked fun.

One day likely in your distant future you'll come to the realization that women are women the world over. The more you are convinced that FSU  women are that much different, the longer it will take. Yes there are tribal women with bones in their noses in Africa and Eskimos in Alaska that can relate to FSUW. Sure the sexy accent and slender bodies tend to throw you off but trust me at the end of the day, FSU women are no different than their Western counter parts. Even more so when you are 25 years old as your local options are near endless. Don't put them on a pedestal among women, they do not belong. If you've stood up for your local women, surely you'll agree?

The key is the ease of dating, if i find someone that i don't like, i can go on to the next and find someone i do like. I like the ease of just being able to date, and not be tied down. I always defended western women on here, even got in heated debates in chat with guys who thought they could bash the women. Truth is there are plenty of amazing women, but my focus is on fsu. It is hard for me to let go, my focus is there and i don't want to budge.

Yeah that doesn't make a lot of sense. Are you looking for women you don't like?. Maybe what you really meant is I have the upper hand economically over women in the FSU and that gives me the upper hand in the relationship? That means I can cut and run anytime I want?  I can be much more picky in the FSU than I could be at home in England because I have many more choices.

Whether you are admitting it or not you are using your economic advantage over the FSUW to strong arm the relationship. You have much more in common with the older fogies than you care to admit. They are doing the same thing. They have the upper hand, the ease of dating and a bigger pool of women from which to choose.

If you really mean what you say and you are looking for a woman to love unconditionally and not for an escape you could be assured of that if you stayed home, couldn't you? I'm not trying to discourage you from looking East. It really makes me no difference. In fact I encourage if anything  to look East but, your rationale is lacking. You're not ready to get married and at 25 that's okay. No hurry but, because you bang one woman at a time per trip, yeah, that kind'a makes you a sex tourist. Your 25 and you can do that at home. The extra hassle of going East makes no sense unless the upper hand is that much more important to you and you can't get it at home. No need to respond unless you want. I only took the time to write that to give you something to think about.

Answered it above, but just to add, i am not financially tied down to the UK, i can relocate and still get a bit of money from stuff here. So the move for me is good unless i could financially justify living here, which for the meanwhile i can, but soon it will be done for me. i am not going to do the rat race, i am comfortable with what i have, if i save and reinvest wisely, time i am in my later years, i will have more than i can spend. I am going to try and do something in the fsu by studying programming, getting some skills, and try and do some projects with locals and use my business mind and hopefully programming skills. At the moment the key for me is just trying to be smart, not get into a a marriage that could take away my financial freedom, and slowly develop my financial power by gaining skills, and reinvesting what i have. I have no clue what will happen in 10 years time to me, i am just going with my gut and what makes me happy, whilst trying to improve financially at the same time, i feel like fsu might do that for me.

I really didn't question your financial prowess, I just took you at your word but here's this: your wealth is going to be what it is rather you fall in love and marry or whether you don't. Take it from someone who put much too much importance on wealth and financial stability, it isn't worth selling your soul or trading your happiness for. In a way I kind of did both so I speak from experience. I could tell from your answer previous you've not been in love and like or had anyone in love and like with you. I was upper 40's before I can honestly say that I was. I recommend you don't wait that long no matter where you find her but, at your current pace and attitude if you do find her in the next 20 years it would have been a complete mistake FWIW

[jone]

One day likely in your distant future you'll come to the realization that women are women the world over. The more you are convinced that FSU  women are that much different, the longer it will take. Yes there are tribal women with bones in their noses in Africa and Eskimos in Alaska that can relate to FSUW. Sure the sexy accent and slender bodies tend to throw you off but trust me at the end of the day, FSU women are no different than their Western counter parts. Even more so when you are 25 years old as your local options are near endless. Don't put them on a pedestal among women, they do not belong. If you've stood up for your local women, surely you'll agree?


Yeah that doesn't make a lot of sense. Are you looking for women you don't like?. Maybe what you really meant is I have the upper hand economically over women in the FSU and that gives me the upper hand in the relationship? That means I can cut and run anytime I want?  I can be much more picky in the FSU than I could be at home in England because I have many more choices.

Whether you are admitting it or not you are using your economic advantage over the FSUW to strong arm the relationship. You have much more in common with the older fogies than you care to admit. They are doing the same thing. They have the upper hand, the ease of dating and a bigger pool of women from which to choose.

If you really mean what you say and you are looking for a woman to love unconditionally and not for an escape you could be assured of that if you stayed home, couldn't you? I'm not trying to discourage you from looking East. It really makes me no difference. In fact I encourage if anything  to look East but, your rationale is lacking. You're not ready to get married and at 25 that's okay. No hurry but, because you bang one woman at a time per trip, yeah, that kind'a makes you a sex tourist. Your 25 and you can do that at home. The extra hassle of going East makes no sense unless the upper hand is that much more important to you and you can't get it at home. No need to respond unless you want. I only took the time to write that to give you something to think about.

I really didn't question your financial prowess, I just took you at your word but here's this: your wealth is going to be what it is rather you fall in love and marry or whether you don't. Take it from someone who put much too much importance on wealth and financial stability, it isn't worth selling your soul or trading your happiness for. In a way I kind of did both so I speak from experience. I could tell from your answer previous you've not been in love and like or had anyone in love and like with you. I was upper 40's before I can honestly say that I was. I recommend you don't wait that long no matter where you find here but, at your current pace and attitude if you do find her in the next 20 years it would have been a complete mistake FWIW

Sh&T, FP,

They strong arm us all the time.  Any time they intentionally wear a low cut top or tight shorts, that is a strong arm tactic.  And it works.

[dragonkid]

One day likely in your distant future you'll come to the realization that women are women the world over. The more you are convinced that FSU  women are that much different, the longer it will take.

I told boe many times, i actually prefer western women. Not sure what is hard to understand, fsuw are just easy.

Yeah that doesn't make a lot of sense. Are you looking for women you don't like?. Maybe what you really meant is I have the upper hand economically over women in the FSU and that gives me the upper hand in the relationship? That means I can cut and run anytime I want?  I can be much more picky in the FSU than I could be at home in England because I have many more choices.

Well i do have leverage that i am british, have a good accent, but...... There is still the hope that these women could fall in love with me and in time, persuade me to move to the UK. They may have that in their mindset, but they are willing to go through many years of in person dating, lots of sex, just for that chance to persuade me. I guess that is slightly better than a woman that is betting for a naive foreigner to marry her after a few meetings, and provide her with nice life in a foreign land.

Whether you are admitting it or not you are using your economic advantage over the FSUW to strong arm the relationship. You have much more in common with the older fogies than you care to admit. They are doing the same thing. They have the upper hand, the ease of dating and a bigger pool of women from which to choose.

Uhmm.... Maybe you haven't understood my recent posts. I always admitted that women had something to gain from me. I told many people this, i am probably the most realist person you would meet, who is not scared to admit stuff like that. You are forgetting, i am going there to study and spend years there, even told them i would live there. So my game is slightly different from yours and others.

If you really mean what you say and you are looking for a woman to love unconditionally and not for an escape you could be assured of that if you stayed home, couldn't you?

I told Boe this already, i know there is a better chance of me finding unconditional love here. I stated before, i am just dating, i can live in the semi delusion, yet i won't get married to a person that loves me conditionally.Better for me just to rent, till i can tell it is something deep from her. How can i tell? No clue, i will just need to see.

  You're not ready to get married and at 25 that's okay. No hurry but, because you bang one woman at a time per trip, yeah, that kind'a makes you a sex tourist. Your 25 and you can do that at home. The extra hassle of going East makes no sense unless the upper hand is that much more important to you and you can't get it at home. No need to respond unless you want. I only took the time to write that to give you something to think about.

When i first went to this search, as i told boe already, i planned on cruising around the world possible (taking longer than expected). Just recently i thought maybe i would remain here and find a pretty fsu girl who is genuine and get married. Yet i don't think it will happen, so instead i will just be an expat. I never pictured myself taking trips a few times a year to bang women, i went to spain recently with my brother, sex trips are not really my thing. Staying in a country, and dating, have fun, is my thing.

I really didn't question your financial prowess, I just took you at your word

You said i was successful, truth is i wouldn't be able to live comfortably according to the stats that i need $8k a month to make a woman happy (i made more than that last year with real estate rise, but not something you can bet on). I just pointed out, that i have a decent net worth, but no financial reasons to stay here (e.g a business that ties me here, or a well paid job, real estate is something you can do abroad). I don't want to take the plunge in marriage at this time in my life. I need to first develop feelings for someone.

I could tell from your answer previous you've not been in love and like or had anyone in love and like with you.

I did love someone briefly, it was during a pregnancy (she miscarried),  prior to the pregnancy, that girl loved me to bits, wanted kids and to get married, she had a decent life,well off parents,and 4 years younger than me. I was better looking back then, solid jaw, decent hairline, i managed to put 15kg in a failed bulk, got fat, and yet the girl still wanted me. I had a youtube back in the days, managed to rake up around 8k-10k subscribers in 6 months. My videos were just comedy, i will load a camera and just talk, it was so good , i had a random girl once approach me at uni, begging me to make videos again once i stopped, didn't realsie i was that popular (nobody knew i did videos at uni). I got a charming and very funny side, and i can make a girl feel special. I probably tasted more genuine unconditional love than you did 

[dragonkid]

Anyways, i found a girl, who makes me laugh, we speak daily via whatsapp call and it is just endless laughs. She makes me laugh, which is something nobody has done for me for a very long time. I like her imperfections, physical ones, her personality, she is very sweet. I am focusing my attention on her, when i do go to russia, i will visit her only. I don't have the heart for the visit many approach, i want to date, have deep relationships, enjoy myself, like you said, money isn't everything in life. In russia i will get the chance to have fun in the way i like, as well as try and maybe make a future there with the right woman. It could be this girl, who knows, but i won't rule out anything. Just to add, a ring on a finger, and signing a contract doesn't make a relationship anymore real, try and ponder that.

[dragonkid]

I think its more if your partner loves you and has real faith in you.
I can make a good amount one year and zero the next,
then fine again the next , just the nature of things.

Then that is still monetary attraction

I can tell you with certainty if I lost my job (it happens in my biz all the time) My wife would jump right in and go back to work, nyet problemo. or we would down size the house etc, not even a issue with it.at all.Just like MOST couples in the FSU. In fact they are more accustomed to such things of that nature being transient and not permanent,(boom or bust) than western people for the most part.
I see that *get thru diversity* trait over and over again,  in most of her friends in the FSU, or here in the US.
It's the outlier that bails easily. (although on these forums it seems common)
 

You brought up something interesting, this search maybe attracts a lot of terrible women. i know it seems childish to say, but a woman that leaves a partner if he gets struck down, or leaves her partner in the fsu for a western man, isn't for me. I had a western girl who did that, as soon as i found out what she played a guy till she could get me, i was pissed. This wasn't regarding money, it was just because she didn't like the guy that much, but i felt bad for him, and disgusted with her.

Normal average FSU marriages fail just like any other country,
 certainly money problems can be a cause,
but its not some common trait for a FSU women to bail out of a marriage at the first economic hiccup if food is on the table and a
 roof over the families heads.

I understand what you are saying, but the westerners who married fsuw who were hit, i doubt they couldn't provide a roof and food on the table. It was a hit, that hurt them, yet their partners true colours emerged. From threats of divorce, to actually walking out.

You seem to have a bit of a jaded view of these being mostly marriages of convenience, and I'm sure that exists,
yet the majority of couples we've known the opposite is true. Many have had hard times, or bumps in the road but persevered, many doing quite well now.

Or i am finding reasons to persuade myself why this search is bad. I was pondering about whether conditional love is all that bad. I mean lots of successful guys marry well, to women who meet their level, it is hard to judge. What do we exactly say? should we say we are homeless to attract genuine females? It is something i don't think anyone has a straight answer for.

Just to add, i was chatting to a girl a few days ago, she was telling me not to get with russian women, they are all terrible. Asked her why, she said all they want is money, this is what i wanted to know from her, i asked her how much money is considered good in russia, she said 150k-200k rubles a month in average city (In russia as an expat) is considered good enough for majority of fsuw. I was relieved, but then thought to myself, why? Am i seriously relieved because i can buy someones affection? anyways this is why for the last few days i was thinking about conditional love.

[Jumper]

So you'll drive yourself nuts over  the grey area between conditonal love and unconditional.Especially if you are even slightly jaded.

You want unconditional, then lets get to the core of that-
Will she take a bullet for you?
 

Now as far as reality, there is some degree of conditional scenario in almost every relationship- from both parties.
Where that line is at, seems  the issue.

People do change, lets hope they become a more complete and a better person with time.So change is almost assured if its  rational stable people within the relationship?
So  as a couple do they accept and change together, or accept the changes in their partners? likely.
If those changes become past a given *condition*,
 for either of them,  they will separate in most cases, right?

This has very little to do with the economics , or the man or women being a provider.
 
All FSU women do not just want  money, that is  like saying all western women are bad or materialistic, it's simply not true.

What do we exactly say? should we say we are homeless to attract genuine females? It is something i don't think anyone has a straight answer for.

Well if you feel a man needs $8K a month in income to make a woman happy , I'd say that's way down the wrong road.

 Lets keep some simple things  in mind. You are not responsible for others happiness,  and there are plenty of unhappy wealthy women (and men) regardless.

I told you I can make zero  a year, maybe for a couple years..
 and what? My wife would work.
 I certainly don't lead relationships with money, I'm  just  myself, and honest about where i'm at in life , and what I value in life.
Money isn't a priority despite the gaffaw's from any peanut gallery on the subject lol.I've seen their reactions to this statement before, but  if they knew me they'd understand.
I have left significantly higher paying jobs to do something I truly enjoyed, my wife knows that quite well, and is happy for me wither way.  It's part of *why* she loves me, its part of who I am as a person and what I value. Certainly some other women wouldn't like that trait , so they wouldn't be a good match. That's perfectly ok, there are billions of women in the world. You'll find a good match for you.

You do seem to think about the monetary aspects of relationships a lot.
So i'll ask you- How many couples in Ukraine has the woman working, and the man doing next to nothing? Do you know?
Go live there a while , in a more average situation,
and get back to me about cultural norms there,  at least in provincial FSU.

   So- What do we say? do we pretend to not have anything?
No! but I sure don't dwell on those things , so I choose to marry
 someone who doesn't either.

I never once had the doubts you seem to be having, that a woman was interested in me over what I have or could provide.
Is it a factor, it could be but its not the main factor.
You seem to be someone that can be charming and interesting to women regardless status in life or income, so why you even worry about it in the least, is what perplexes me a bit.
 
 To me you are sweating a detail that is in 5th , or 50th place.
So maybe you need to understand yourself and where you stand on the issue?
Lets say it was 5% of the relationship-  would that be merely tolerable, or make you sick?
20% ?
28%?
Now if its 99% of the underlying reasons she's interested , I see your revulsion.

It's hard for me to relate to your issues. I do have empathy for them, just cant relate. I've never been seriously involved with anyone to the level of marriage or considering it, that finances where a big enough factor to even rate on the chart, and before its  brought up, yes i could go live in the FSU with my wife. There would be distinct disadvantages and some advantages,but its not what drives our relationship one way or the other. 

[BillyB]

I probably tasted more genuine unconditional love than you did 

I got two dogs in my house. I doubt any man here has more unconditional love than I'm currently getting.

[Boethius]

Now as far as reality, there is some degree of conditional scenario in almost every relationship- from both parties.

I disagree with this.  I think one can love a partner unconditionally, just as a parent loves a child unconditionally.

[dragonkid]

All FSU women do not just want  money, that is  like saying all western women are bad or materialistic, it's simply not true.

I never said that, but they want an upgrade. What sort of upgrade? Depends to be honest, some can't be that picky due to their looks, or have baggage (as in kids). They are not someones arm candy, they can't afford to jump from one man to another. Back in 2000, like many have told me, things were much easier, women would just be happy to escape.

Well if you feel a man needs $8K a month in income to make a woman happy , I'd say that's way down the wrong road.

You experienced strains in your first marriage due to different opinions of where to live. So you have to admit, that money is an issue in these fsu marriages.

I told you I can make zero  a year, maybe for a couple years..
 and what? My wife would work.
 I certainly don't lead relationships with money, I'm  just  myself, and honest about where i'm at in life , and what I value in life.

Whatever you say to a fsuw, she won't understand finances. Say to her you make $1k a month, she will say, well that is 3x more than the guys here, so that is good. I seen actual gold diggers, 25 year olds, with slutty photos, stating they want a guy 45+, and put income requirements of $45k a year. They have no clue that $45k a year is peanuts and won't buy them what they want, also they won't need to shack up with a guy 20 years older than them to get that.

You do seem to think about the monetary aspects of relationships a lot.

One side i have my ex who wanted a guy that could afford to take her once a year abroad, support a family whilst she worked, and some money (£50 a month) on clothes. The other side i got guys saying you need $100k a year, and vets saying 50% marriage end, why? Money, so the ones that do survive how many are happy? Not alot, why? Money. All i know is one woman's expectations, and then all the jaded guys on here. But this is the main point, some on here have told me that i will be a lot different than an older guy, i probably have a better chance of finding true love, as i am what women some fsuw want physically.

So i'll ask you- How many couples in Ukraine has the woman working, and the man doing next to nothing? Do you know?
Go live there a while , in a more average situation,
and get back to me about cultural norms there,  at least in provincial FSU.

Yes i know a girl who did that, you know what happened? She was sending me her nudes, whilst her bf my age was selling his 2 flats (worth peanuts), to go live with her in czech. He quit his job in france to return to be with her in Ukraine (he was Ukrainian). I had no clue, but when i did find out i ceased talking to her. A few guys marry girls like her, for me these women aren't my type.

You seem to be someone that can be charming and interesting to women regardless status in life or income, so why you even worry about it in the least, is what perplexes me a bit.

Because i always felt at the start that this was for a visa, then when i watched 90 day fiance, and found out that the marriages do last, i felt relieved. Me and my ex even watched it together. I was so happy back then, felt a bit positive about this search, i just had issues with marriage. Then i came on here, and suddenly the older guys stories felt like my own. Some of the guys groomed me in a way that it felt like i was an older guy searching for a wife abroad. I got messages like yours, who reminded me i was different, yet the horror stories and stats on here just make me feel jaded

Lets say it was 5% of the relationship-  would that be merely tolerable, or make you sick?
20% ?
28%?
Now if its 99% of the underlying reasons she's interested , I see your revulsion.

Well that cleared it up really, i always felt with my ex, that it was for example 5% of the reason she was with me. It was tolerable, because i knew when i looked at her dating profile, she didn't open any other guys messages since talking to me , even though she knew i was talking to others (i told her). I knew she could of hooked up with an older guy, who had better earning power. So it was tolerable for me at that time. I am just jaded from talking to people on here, i mean they helped me a lot, i now know the reality of these women a bit better than before. 

[Jumper]

I disagree with this.  I think one can love a partner unconditionally, just as a parent loves a child unconditionally.

I agree.

 That said the reality is most people have a certain level of conditions in their relationship, if  their spouse changed dramatically, or acted or did A* or *B*  the love would fade.  If their spouse loved someone else,
 odds are they would not continue to love them regardless.
That's not unconditional love.

I know it exists but feel it's quite rare.So I should have clarified.
 

[Jumper]

You experienced strains in your first marriage due to different opinions of where to live. So you have to admit, that money is an issue in these fsu marriages.

  That's  over generalizing a bit.  We could live downtown and party, I did not want to, nor raise a family in that scenario, but that was her thoughts at the time on how to live life and raise a family. (radically changed now BTW) . Me ? I would prefer a given value of home in the sticks with a ocean or lake view versus the same amount on a downtown big city  location. You can spend the same going diving or going to a high end club, guess what i'd prefer? what she'd prefer? It was just a poor match from the get go, and as much my fault as hers.Likely more mine.The lifestyle disconnect wasn't about money,or providing,  but about priorities.

but yes,  I'd say its often a big factor in domestic marriages as well?


The main thing is , you should be able to tell easily if a woman is with you for what you can provide , versus for you, and where that line is.
Lots of men come here voicing concerns over this.


I felt if I had to worry about it, then whomever it was wasn't worth pursuing, but I dint worry before even meeting them

The flip side in this is the FSU women have similar concerns of course..
*would he even date me if I wasn't hot*?
Are you with her 5% of that , or 99% ?
Should she feel repulsed if its 60% ?

Many relationships have some of those various factors in them..
hopefully they are rather small percents on both sides if it's to last.

[dragonkid]

  That's  over generalizing a bit.  We could live downtown and party, I did not want to, nor raise a family in that scenario, but that was her thoughts at the time on how to live life and raise a family. (radically changed now BTW) . Me ? I would prefer a given value of home in the sticks with a ocean or lake view versus the same amount on a downtown big city  location. You can spend the same going diving or going to a high end club, guess what i'd prefer? what she'd prefer? It was just a poor match from the get go, and as much my fault as hers.Likely more mine.The lifestyle disconnect wasn't about money,or providing,  but about priorities.

but yes,  I'd say its often a big factor in domestic marriages as well?


The main thing is , you should be able to tell easily if a woman is with you for what you can provide , versus for you, and where that line is.
Lots of men come here voicing concerns over this.


I felt if I had to worry about it, then whomever it was wasn't worth pursuing, but I dint worry before even meeting them

The flip side in this is the FSU women have similar concerns of course..
*would he even date me if I wasn't hot*?
Are you with her 5% of that , or 99% ?
Should she feel repulsed if its 60% ?

Many relationships have some of those various factors in them..
hopefully they are rather small percents on both sides if it's to last.

I think you give them too much credit. Not many have this going through their head. I know a few who have the husband provides, the woman fulfills his sexual desires. It is purely a sex for money relationship, i can see that marriage not lasting, so can others. My mistake is looking at those relationships and picturing myself in that situation.

[BillyB]

That said the reality is most people have a certain level of conditions in their relationship, if  their spouse changed dramatically, or acted or did A* or *B*  the love would fade.  If their spouse loved someone else,
 odds are they would not continue to love them regardless.
That's not unconditional love.

Everybody seems to have different definitions of unconditional love. If I step on my dogs everyday, they will still love me. Had a truck driver that had a girlfriend that would do anything for him. If they were in a public parking lot and he told her to get on her knees and suck his member, she would do so without hesitation. She would do anything for him.

[dragonkid]

Everybody seems to have different definitions of unconditional love. If I step on my dogs everyday, they will still love me. Had a truck driver that had a girlfriend that would do anything for him. If they were in a public parking lot and he told her to get on her knees and suck his member, she would do so without hesitation. She would do anything for him.

No offence, but you describing love as just sexual gratification on one side, and looking after a dog is what i gathered about you  It is fine, but for a lot of people, we want a lot more than that.

My views on marriage is unconditional love, rather just rent, in other words date, i wouldn't do pay for sex ever. Even sex is something i let go of, it is more pleasuring the other person, that is my pleasure from sex. For me i want to feel the warmth of another woman, best sex i ever had was actually being in love with a girl, and her loving me back. A lot of guys sacrifice that for arm candy, they will feel the physical pleasure, the admiration from others, but not the warmth.

[BillyB]

you describing love as just sexual gratification on one side, and looking after a dog is what i gathered about you 

Just giving examples of love that will endure though horrible conditions of pain and humiliation. It's easy to unconditionally love someone when conditions are ideal. For most people, when things aren't ideal, the love becomes conditional. There are circumstances I'd divorce a woman. My love isn't unconditional.

[dragonkid]

Just giving examples of love that will endure though horrible conditions of pain and humiliation. It's easy to unconditionally love someone when conditions are ideal. For most people, when things aren't ideal, the love becomes conditional. There are circumstances I'd divorce a woman. My love isn't unconditional.

Well atleast you are man enough to admit it, some will say something like "they want some old dick", or "a guy who knows what he is doing in bed". Yet will bust a nut after 3mins, or be out of breath by 10.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Just giving examples of love that will endure though horrible conditions of pain and humiliation. It's easy to unconditionally love someone when conditions are ideal. For most people, when things aren't ideal, the love becomes conditional. There are circumstances I'd divorce a woman. My love isn't unconditional.

Unconditional love doesn't mean you wouldn't leave someone if they treated you bad.  Leaving that person doesn't mean you stop loving them either.