Status Failure

[LAman]

Trenchcoat,

 


Why an apartment over a hotel?
1. It's cheaper
2. Girls will consider visiting you at your apartment
3. You can cook or play house
4. Most girls won't visit a man in a hotel. The hotel will assume the girl is a prostitute
and will try to get their commission from her. 100% of girls will be offended by this.
5. It's far more comfortable 
6. You can make yourself a sandwich if you want late at night or early in the morning
you don't have to trudge out in your trenchcoat for a cup of coffee.
7. This list could have a hundred more reasons.
8. An FSUW can walk around in your apartment in her underwear while cooking you
breakfast.  It's happened to me many times and it can't happen in a hotel room.
9. She can invite her friends over to meet you for tea and cake, play some music etc.
10. You can feed her strawberries or grapes that you had in your refrigerator between
kisses while watching Russian music videos.
11. You can wash your clothes
12. You can have a bottle of champainsky chilled and ready at all times.
13. You can invite a girl that you met on the beach, or in the cafe or while
dancing to your apartment for a some cheese, fruit and wine.

This is FSUW101

1. Not always cheaper, depends on location and size or facilities.
2. Girl will visit you anywhere if she is comfortable with you. Or doesn't think you are a sex tourist
3. Definitely good point, as I enjoy my 'American breakfast'
4. BS, depends on girl. More often in Ukraine it is a point I have heard many times. In the very few times I have been in a hotel, never a problem for me.
5. Varies, again depends on size and facilities AND location.
6. Hate coffee. Drink much more than eat. Again, when I am on holiday, I eat once/twice a day.
7. 100 more useless reasons????
8. Who would care about breakfast when there is a girl walking around in panties????
9. I care little about inviting her friends...we can meet them in café or park or beach or xxxxxxx
10. Most Hotels(better ones) have a small fridge for keeping a few things cold...like strawberries!!!!
11. I can have laundry services in hotel take care of that. why be bothered...oh yes, if on tight budget definitely get an apt.
12. I had my bubbly chilled in a metal container courtesy of mgt at hotel!!!! What exactly did you use for a container Mr Bill?
13. I can invite any girl up to hotel room, matter of her choice

In Ukraine, yes there is a stigma to coming to a hotel to meet a western man. I've seen it yes, but not always the girl chooses NOT to go.
In Russia completely different, ALL girls have met me in Hotel lobby, some even came up to meet me at my room. Either to see room or to get American treats for her family/kids.
Now to be told, in Ukraine I have stayed >90% in apts. In Russia, 95% of time in Hotels.

If I had any advice, for someone new to an area or city or country, get a Hotel room, make things easier on yourself. Don't be so worried about a girl...and getting her to your 'place'.
For a veteran like Mr Bill, apt would make more sense. Privacy and cooking are only advantages in my eyes.

[LAman]

Well I havent really found that Apartments are any cheaper, they seem about the same price, so for a week long stay I've tended to go for hotel, not sure if apartments would rent for just a week or not. Tended to go for Hotels as they are easier to find if you get lost or directions for Taxi Driver. Some have breakfast included plus some have nice girls working there so if one takes a shine to you, perhaps receptionist or hotel restaurant staff, would just need a PUA idea again for this though. Might think about an apartment next time though and see how the experience goes/differs.
 

I've rented an apartment for ONE evening before several different times.
You could have asked here at the forum and somebody would have told
you. Once you've met the owner of an apartment then you can usually
rent from them for less the next time.

Yes Bill, you can rent apts for as little as 1 day but only  if they don't have a min stay of longer than 1 night. Another problem is if apt is booked by someone else and you cannot stay for as long as you would want. Unless there is a specific reason, you would normally book for 4-5 days to a couple weeks. Why keep repacking luggage often?
Some apts charge for extra people or charge a security deposit.

[JayH]

1. Not always cheaper, depends on location and size or facilities.
2. Girl will visit you anywhere if she is comfortable with you. Or doesn't think you are a sex tourist
3. Definitely good point, as I enjoy my 'American breakfast'
4. BS, depends on girl. More often in Ukraine it is a point I have heard many times. In the very few times I have been in a hotel, never a problem for me.
5. Varies, again depends on size and facilities AND location.
6. Hate coffee. Drink much more than eat. Again, when I am on holiday, I eat once/twice a day.
7. 100 more useless reasons????
8. Who would care about breakfast when there is a girl walking around in panties????
9. I care little about inviting her friends...we can meet them in café or park or beach or xxxxxxx
10. Most Hotels(better ones) have a small fridge for keeping a few things cold...like strawberries!!!!
11. I can have laundry services in hotel take care of that. why be bothered...oh yes, if on tight budget definitely get an apt.
12. I had my bubbly chilled in a metal container courtesy of mgt at hotel!!!! What exactly did you use for a container Mr Bill?
13. I can invite any girl up to hotel room, matter of her choice

In Ukraine, yes there is a stigma to coming to a hotel to meet a western man. I've seen it yes, but not always the girl chooses NOT to go.
In Russia completely different, ALL girls have met me in Hotel lobby, some even came up to meet me at my room. Either to see room or to get American treats for her family/kids.
Now to be told, in Ukraine I have stayed >90% in apts. In Russia, 95% of time in Hotels.

If I had any advice, for someone new to an area or city or country, get a Hotel room, make things easier on yourself. Don't be so worried about a girl...and getting her to your 'place'.
For a veteran like Mr Bill, apt would make more sense. Privacy and cooking are only advantages in my eyes.

 I mostly agree with LAman .
The advice to stay in apartments is basically crap-out of date nonsense.

Think about it-- most of these guys are not going to be getting a girl into private space anywhere-full stop.

Apartment so you can cook? Seriously dumb concept  to lock yourself away. My contrary advice-- go out for breakfast,lunch,dinner,morning and afternoon tea,go out a night. Put yourself in public places where other people are- now that is logical !

Hotels that serve breakfast in general area- that is an opportunity.

An apartment can make sense with a developed relationship where more time in private space is required- and can work if above advice is heeded.
As to the issues of hotels and girls-that is a yes and a no-it depends/ I do not see any hard or fast rule here . Once you know someone-- little difference in my opinion. Initially- as I said above for most.

As to the idea of the concierge hooking a guy up--mm-- maybe in bigger hotels in major cities . I can say the only place I have seen it was in big hotel in Moscow -- and I have stayed in a lot of  different Hotels .

[ML]

The advice to stay in apartments is basically crap-out of date nonsense.

Think about it-- most of these guys are not going to be getting a girl into private space anywhere-full stop.

Apartment so you can cook? Seriously dumb concept  to lock yourself away. My contrary advice-- go out for breakfast,lunch,dinner,morning and afternoon tea,go out a night. Put yourself in public places where other people are- now that is logical !

I disagree with you Jay.

Over the years, most guys here have by far preferred the apartment route compared to a hotel.

I have never stayed at a hotel when I am on a WMVM trip.

Almost 90 percent of the women I met did come to my apartment, most on the first date.

The apartment route is a great way to move the relationship along much quicker than in a hotel.  In apartment, you cook together, do dishes, bump bodies in the kitchen, relax on the sofa listening to music, looking at pictures, etc.

I much prefer to get up in apartment, eat a self cooked breakfast, do the toilet duties, shower and shave, and then head out for the day.

Of course, I always was on WMVM trips, had all my time previously planned out, so had no need to chat up the breakfast server gals, etc., most of which wouldn't have met my education or age criteria anyway.

[BillyB]

If you guys get a woman to come to your apartment and she gets you horny and naked, then tells you to take a shower, make sure you take your pants with you to the bathroom or better yet, the girl. There have been incidences where that's happened to men and they come out of the shower to find the pants, wallet, and girl all gone.

There was another incident where a guy brought his girl to the apartment and someone knocked on the door. Don't answer it. The guy answered it and he was beat unconscious. When he woke up in a pool of blood, the girl was gone and most likely it was her friends that beat him up.

It's better to get to know your girl well before visiting otherwise you're just visiting a stranger that may be good, bad or if you're lucky, downright nasty.

[Trenchcoat]

I mostly agree with LAman .
The advice to stay in apartments is basically crap-out of date nonsense.

Think about it-- most of these guys are not going to be getting a girl into private space anywhere-full stop.

Apartment so you can cook? Seriously dumb concept  to lock yourself away. My contrary advice-- go out for breakfast,lunch,dinner,morning and afternoon tea,go out a night. Put yourself in public places where other people are- now that is logical !

Hotels that serve breakfast in general area- that is an opportunity.

An apartment can make sense with a developed relationship where more time in private space is required- and can work if above advice is heeded.
As to the issues of hotels and girls-that is a yes and a no-it depends/ I do not see any hard or fast rule here . Once you know someone-- little difference in my opinion. Initially- as I said above for most.

As to the idea of the concierge hooking a guy up--mm-- maybe in bigger hotels in major cities . I can say the only place I have seen it was in big hotel in Moscow -- and I have stayed in a lot of  different Hotels .

Yeah, there has been nothing overtly obvious on the prostitute front in the few hotels I have stayed in the Ukraine, at times you wonder if there are a few girls hanging round outside or pass someone in the Lobby but nothing obvious to me anyway.

I can see the advantages and disadvantages on both sides. I think in future I'll offer up the possibilities to the woman and see if she has a preference or a problem with meeting at the hotel. Judging from the reaction of the last woman it looks like some have hang ups over visiting hotels. I personally find hotels handy for the room cleaning, reception desk services and as you say meeting restaurant/hotel staff & possibly other guests there rather than locking yourself away, but will see how it goes.

Thanks BillyB also, your advice on safety for apartment visits most helpful as these tricks can take you unawares even if they are not familiar happenings. I think your right in really getting to know a girl through many skypes before going to hopefully get to know her better and her intent.

[BorisS]

I think in a big city like Peter or Moscow a hotel is ok. But, for me I will always use an apartment. Much more comfortable atmosphere for "sparking." :-)))

[JayH]

I disagree with you Jay.

Over the years, most guys here have by far preferred the apartment route compared to a hotel.

I have never stayed at a hotel when I am on a WMVM trip.

Almost 90 percent of the women I met did come to my apartment, most on the first date.

The apartment route is a great way to move the relationship along much quicker than in a hotel.  In apartment, you cook together, do dishes, bump bodies in the kitchen, relax on the sofa listening to music, looking at pictures, etc.

I much prefer to get up in apartment, eat a self cooked breakfast, do the toilet duties, shower and shave, and then head out for the day.

Of course, I always was on WMVM trips, had all my time previously planned out, so had no need to chat up the breakfast server gals, etc., most of which wouldn't have met my education or age criteria anyway.

I am repeating a point already made--- meeting an established relationship is quite different to formative stages  where someone is try to make contacts.

I made the point above on staying in Hotels etc
As an example-- at breakfast  it is an opportunity to meet people generally. the hotel staff( as mentioned by ML above- is not your target-but other guests- and their guest or others that may come for breakfast.
There is often women travelling on business ( more than ever these days) ,being tourists etc etc etc
Sharing a table is common-- and a VERY EASY WAY TO GET TO TALK TO PEOPLE !


On this table sharing-and this applies everywhere from breakfast,cafe,restaurants etc -- I always try and take larger 6 person type table and avoid a 2 person deal. Why? As explained above -in crowded situation table sharing is a necessity and even more so if  you are observant and welcoming to anyone casting an eye around where to sit. They may be alone- or with family or friends,business associates etc.
This is THE best strategy possible to engage people- and that can be direct contact-or a roundabout lead.

[ML]

Another point about hotels.

I am not kidding a bit when I tell that on some trips, well over 50% of the time . . . a hotel employee has used their key to come into my room when I was 'engaged' in bed with a woman.

Not at late night, but in late mornings and mid-afternoons, which are my preferred times.

Not just maids, but repair persons, remodeling persons, etc.

Note: This wasn't in USA, but rather in places in other countries where they didn't have the 'Do Not Disturb' signs to hang on the doors and didn't have the supplemental inside locks on doors that did not operate with a key.  Or, they least tried to get in and were stopped by the supplemental locks . . . which is still startling and causes shrinkage.

As I recall, it was mostly in Turkey and Egypt on the 'all inclusive' tours.

[JayH]

Another point about hotels.

I am not kidding a bit when I tell that on some trips, well over 50% of the time . . . a hotel employee has used their key to come into my room when I was 'engaged' in bed with a woman.

Not at late night, but in late mornings and mid-afternoons, which are my preferred times.

Not just maids, but repair persons, remodeling persons, etc.

Note: This wasn't in USA, but rather in places in other countries where they didn't have the 'Do Not Disturb' signs to hang on the doors and didn't have the supplemental inside locks on doors that did not operate with a key.  Or, they least tried to get in and were stopped by the supplemental locks . . . which is still startling and causes shrinkage.

As I recall, it was mostly in Turkey and Egypt on the 'all inclusive' tours.

Funnily enough-I have had that experience a few times.
I now carry my own method to secure door!

Ironically given this immediate discussion-- last month I had someone trying to break into  the apartment  in the dead of night and my secondary system did it's work great  and the noise woke me.

[msmobyone]

Apartment EVERY time..

Here's another reason or two

 in the situation Jay describes

1/ Less chance of hotel security stopping your 'intended' suggesting she is 'working' .. this is a reason my ex gave me to stay in an apartment....

2/ Apartments with separate bedrooms create less 'stressful' situations 



 

[JayH]

Apartment EVERY time..

Here's another reason or two

 in the situation Jay describes

1/ Less chance of hotel security stopping your 'intended' suggesting she is 'working' .. this is a reason my ex gave me to stay in an apartment....

Once again-my point was not apartment  vs hotel discussion--it was about what makes the best opportunity to meet people.

And again-- most of these guys have little chance of needing to be concerned about privacy issues( even if I conceded this point- and I dont)  Guys are highly unlikely to be successfully inviting anyone to room ( or an apartment)

Your reference to the old fashioned floor "attendants" must refer to Russia ! Have not seen in Ukraine in many years.  It is also a reason I keep poking at guys whose search years were long ago-but that keep commenting as if it is relevant point today. Some things change-- and in Ukraine's case-- a lot has changed and is changing .

[ML]

Guys are highly unlikely to be successfully inviting anyone to room ( or an apartment)

No, that's the easy part.

Hard part . . . getting them to leave.

[jone]

Once again-my point was not apartment  vs hotel discussion--it was about what makes the best opportunity to meet people.

And again-- most of these guys have little chance of needing to be concerned about privacy issues( even if I conceded this point- and I dont)  Guys are highly unlikely to be successfully inviting anyone to room ( or an apartment)

Your reference to the old fashioned floor "attendants" must refer to Russia ! Have not seen in Ukraine in many years.  It is also a reason I keep poking at guys whose search years were long ago-but that keep commenting as if it is relevant point today. Some things change-- and in Ukraine's case-- a lot has changed and is changing .

Lobby monitors are in all of the major hotels in Russia.  It used to be that they were simply security for guests.  Now, it is assumed, they have a more direct purpose that assists the Russian government.

[Trenchcoat]

Another point about hotels.

I am not kidding a bit when I tell that on some trips, well over 50% of the time . . . a hotel employee has used their key to come into my room when I was 'engaged' in bed with a woman.

Not at late night, but in late mornings and mid-afternoons, which are my preferred times.

Not just maids, but repair persons, remodeling persons, etc.

Note: This wasn't in USA, but rather in places in other countries where they didn't have the 'Do Not Disturb' signs to hang on the doors and didn't have the supplemental inside locks on doors that did not operate with a key.  Or, they least tried to get in and were stopped by the supplemental locks . . . which is still startling and causes shrinkage.

As I recall, it was mostly in Turkey and Egypt on the 'all inclusive' tours.

Hotel Mozart I was staying in Odessa for one night before my plane left the following day had no 'Do not Disturb' sign. It had a button lock you pressed from the inside but I was not convinced that this would stop a hotel maid walking in - perhaps that was the point as it hindered their room cleaning too much maybe. Even still its not a great situation and sometimes I forget the sign so a door stop sounds a good idea as JayH suggests. The other two hotels had 'do not disturb signs' but probably not best to rely on that anyway I guess, apartment you would not have that but not bad having a stop as a safety precaution I guess.

[Boethius]

Lobby monitors are in all of the major hotels in Russia.  It used to be that they were simply security for guests.  Now, it is assumed, they have a more direct purpose that assists the Russian government.

They used to be called durzhurnas, and existed on every floor of every hotel in the USSR which had foreigner guests.  They definitely worked for the government.  To acquire the papers to work with foreigners was not an easy thing.  I don't know if they existed in hotels for Soviets.  The durzhurnas knew who was in a foreigner's hotel room at all times. 

[jone]

They used to be called durzhurnas, and existed on every floor of every hotel which had foreigner guests in the USSR, and they definitely worked for the government.  To acquire the papers to work with foreigners was not an easy thing.  I don't know if they existed in hotels for Soviets.  The durzhurnas knew who was in a foreigner's hotel room at all times. 

Yup.  I never visited the Soviet Union.  But after the break-up, the monitors in the lobbies were there for security.  Since then, it appears that they have, once again, been co-opted for more reporting.

[Boethius]

Any hotel that was built in Soviet times and catered to foreigners also had bugs placed in the rooms.  Probably in the telephones, according to dissidents I've met.  If authorities believe that is warranted, that probably exists now as well.  I know it does in Ukraine, from a business meeting one of my colleagues had.

Everyone knew about hotel buggings in Soviet times.  A friend of mine had her grandparents visit her in L'viv, in what is now the George Hotel.  They were from a village, and didn't know what an elevator was.  She said "They didn't know what an elevator was, but they knew they couldn't speak freely in the hotel."

[2tallbill]

No, that's the easy part.

Hard part . . . getting them to leave.

I don't know how many FSUW visited me in my apartment over the years,
but I do have an accurate count on how many visited me in Russian hotel
rooms ZERO.

This is silly that people are arguing about it. An apartment is better.
The best a hotel room can be is almost as good.

Nobody mentioned the most convenient thing about a hotel in Russia which is
they will register and stamp your visa. If you get an apartment you have to go
to the post office or police station and do this yourself.

Playing house is ten thousand better than being in a hotel and having some maid
replenish your bath towels and little soaps.

[jone]

I don't know how many FSUW visited me in my apartment over the years,
but I do have an accurate count on how many visited me in Russian hotel
rooms ZERO.

This is silly that people are arguing about it. An apartment is better.
The best a hotel room can be is almost as good.

Nobody mentioned the most convenient thing about a hotel in Russia which is
they will register and stamp your visa. If you get an apartment you have to go
to the post office or police station and do this yourself.

Playing house is ten thousand better than being in a hotel and having some maid
replenish your bath towels and little soaps.

I have always made it the responsibility of the landlord to get my stay documented.

[2tallbill]

8. Who would care about breakfast when there is a girl walking around in panties????

Once she get's them off the chandelier and manages to get them back on,
I like to let her get us both some nourishment. It gives her more strength
for the next round. 

[Faux Pas]

I don't know how many FSUW visited me in my apartment over the years,
but I do have an accurate count on how many visited me in Russian hotel
rooms ZERO.

This is silly that people are arguing about it. An apartment is better.
The best a hotel room can be is almost as good.

Nobody mentioned the most convenient thing about a hotel in Russia which is
they will register and stamp your visa. If you get an apartment you have to go
to the post office or police station and do this yourself.

Playing house is ten thousand better than being in a hotel and having some maid
replenish your bath towels and little soaps.

They will do it anyway for a modest fee and you don't even have to stay there but, it's much easier now that you can do it at the Post Office. When I first started going you had to go to an office that had police but it wasn't exactly a police station it was an administrative office with some militia in it. The were actually dressed more like soldiers than police. That office was a royal pain and took almost all day

[Steamer]

They used to be called durzhurnas, and existed on every floor of every hotel in the USSR which had foreigner guests.  They definitely worked for the government.  To acquire the papers to work with foreigners was not an easy thing.  I don't know if they existed in hotels for Soviets.  The durzhurnas knew who was in a foreigner's hotel room at all times.

Are these the key ladies that you had to give your room key to every time you left the room? They always chewed me out because I would forget. I bought her a box of chocolates and then I was gold.

Do they still do this?

[ML]

Are these the key ladies that you had to give your room key to every time you left the room? They always chewed me out because I would forget. I bought her a box of chocolates and then I was gold.

For two boxes, she might have sent a gal into your room.
Missed opportunity.

[msmobyone]

Lobby monitors are in all of the major hotels in Russia.  It used to be that they were simply security for guests.  Now, it is assumed, they have a more direct purpose that assists the Russian government.

Assumed by whom...you ?
Utter twaddle..

When travelling alone I stay in places Russians would use when travelling - have even stayed in working mens' dorm style hotels...   

Do you think one guest  / worker at the hotel reports to the FSB ?)))