Trip report - 1st day

[msmob]

TC

Moby says:

mamba is popular - you just need to standout ..A serious guy will make his profile 'VIP'

I found SC on Mamba and another unrelated site...

I could see she hadn't logged on for ages - so it would be pointless writing there..

So, I set about finding her elsewhere..

SC says:

 mamba is just about men seeking sex ... hence she stopped logging in

[ML]

just about men seeking sex ...

Is this some new development in human existence ?

[msmob]

Is this some new development in human existence ?

I believe you might have taken 'some' my words out of context !;)

Lest we lose the point in your diversionary humour - SC was making the point that [Russian ] men seeking sex - without any long-term commitment - meant that she stopped using the site a s a useful dating tool ..

It's a sort of clue - as to why SHE suggests it might not be the site for guys seeking sex of the monogamous kind

[ML]

I believe you might have taken 'some' my words out of context !;)

Lest we lose the point in your diversionary humour - SC was making the point that [Russian ] men seeking sex - without any long-term commitment - meant that she stopped using the site a s a useful dating tool ..

It's a sort of clue - as to why SHE suggests it might not be the site for guys seeking sex of the monogamous kind

But could prove to be a worthwhile challenge for creative man.  i.e. to go against the grain and change some of women's minds.

Reminds me of my youthful days in Far East while in US Navy.
I was only 17 years old and had little experience with women.

The bar gals asked me what was my 'line of shit.'
They had picked up this wording from other sailors.

I honestly told them that I had no 'line of shit.'

This became a fairly successful 'line of shit' for me; as I became 'loving known' as the guy who had no 'line of shit.'

[msmob]

But could prove to be a worthwhile challenge for creative man.  i.e. to go against the grain and change some of women's minds.

I'm trying ...One woman at time, eh ML

[ML]

I'm trying ...One woman at time, eh ML

Sounds good.

[wallm]

Going back next month. Hoping not to get snowed in some of those world class airports in Ukraine.

Can't help but think about this girl. My little head thinking too much there. We haven't spoken in a month after she told me to be patient. I kinda wish it worked out between us. Oh well.

Will see 6 when I go back. 3 for the first time in Odessa, Kharkiv. And 3 for the second time in Kiev.

These Ukrainian women do seem a little touchy about me seeing others. I have heard them comment to me about that. I guess I have to start lying that I am not seeing anyone else when they ask me. (if I like the one asking)

[Boethius]

Don't lie. It rarely works, particularly with FSUW who are expert in detecting deception.

No woman likes to know a man she is interested in is interested in other women. Add the sex tourist angle and you can understand why Ukrainian women, even more so, would not like this.

[wallm]

So do many men do the 1 woman 1 trip thing? That sounds ridiculous especially traveling from the US.

[Bounder]

Don't lie. It rarely works, particularly with FSUW who are expert in detecting deception.

No woman likes to know a man she is interested in is interested in other women. Add the sex tourist angle and you can understand why Ukrainian women, even more so, would not like this.

And herein lies the WMVM dilemma.  I think 2TallBill developed the best approach for the WMVM strategy.  Talk to them before you visit, but don't set anything up with more than one until you are on the ground.  I have no personal experience with WMVM as it's just not really my style, but I think this is kind of how 2Tall went about it and made it a viable strategy.

[Bounder]

So do many men do the 1 woman 1 trip thing? That sounds ridiculous especially traveling from the US.

It comes down to what you're comfortable with.  It sounds like you are comfortable with the Write Many Visit Many strategy, in which case I would recommend taking 2TallBill's approach of writing many but don't set up more than one date before you leave. Set up the rest once on the ground and as needed.

[wallm]

It comes down to what you're comfortable with.  It sounds like you are comfortable with the Write Many Visit Many strategy, in which case I would recommend taking 2TallBill's approach of writing many but don't set up more than one date before you leave. Set up the rest once on the ground and as needed.

Isn't it kind of hard to set up once there? I am going 3 different cities. Need airline (puddle jumpers in case of UIA) ahead of time and hotel/apartment reservations. I could do it if I am seeing them all in one city I suppose but that is not so. The 3 in Kiev I could possibly do it that way. It would be kind of funny if I am on a date with one and the previous date walks in on us.

I shall search for Bill's approach.

[ML]

You do know there is a 'Starting Out' sub-forum here that is intended to help you . . . right ??!!

[wallm]

You do know there is a 'Starting Out' sub-forhttp://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/Smileys/default2/grin.gifum here that is intended to help you . . . right ??!!

Shut up ML. Go back to being funny or trying to be. 

I will check it out.

[BillyB]

These Ukrainian women do seem a little touchy about me seeing others. I have heard them comment to me about that. I guess I have to start lying that I am not seeing anyone else when they ask me. (if I like the one asking)

You can be honest and come away with more respect from the ladies. If they ask me if I'm writing more women than just them, I tell them the truth and let them know I don't know which girl I will decide on and you probably don't know which man you will choose yet but lets keep communicating and learn more about each other.

I've had women on a date ask if I'm seeing other women. I tell them "Yes". If they seem disappointed, I'll ask them "Are you ready to dedicate your life to me?" They always answer "No". So with that, I tell them "We are not in a serious relationship yet so lets remain friends. Who knows who we end up but lets keep dating to learn more about each other." Sometimes the women will try harder to catch me.

Wallm, you will visit 6 women in different cities. They aren't stupid. Those women will know you're not seeing only them on your visit since you will be taking a vacation longer than the time you will see them. They may suspect you're a sex tourist or an international playboy. You have a job of convincing them you're not. Let them know you're visiting them as a friend first. Make no promises. If you don't know how to talk or seem nervous when answering the question, you will be dumped.

I usually develop a good relationship with one woman before making a decision to visit. We have to have things in common, enjoy talking to each other on the phone at any time of day and she has to be into me. I will be ready to dedicate my entire visit to her but if it doesn't work, I can get dates within a few hours easily when in town.

[Bounder]

You do know there is a 'Starting Out' sub-forum here that is intended to help you . . . right ??!!

Be nice!

[Bounder]

Isn't it kind of hard to set up once there? I am going 3 different cities. Need airline (puddle jumpers in case of UIA) ahead of time and hotel/apartment reservations. I could do it if I am seeing them all in one city I suppose but that is not so. The 3 in Kiev I could possibly do it that way. It would be kind of funny if I am on a date with one and the previous date walks in on us.

I shall search for Bill's approach.

Wallm, it shouldn't be hard to set up additional dates so long as you have wifi and your regular channels of communication.  You just apply this to each city.  If you are only seeing one in the other cities outside Kiev, then that's that.  If you have multiple dates in Kiev, just manage it to reduce the likelihood that I previous date would walk in on you.  Kiev is big enough that you can do that.  I don't know about the other cities, but imagine it is also possible there.

[ML]

If you have multiple dates in Kiev, just manage it to reduce the likelihood that I previous date would walk in on you.  Kiev is big enough that you can do that.  I don't know about the other cities, but imagine it is also possible there.

Actually, I did accidentally see (for instance) woman 1 when I was out with woman 2.  Happened more than once, even in largest cities in FSU.

Once a woman walked past (going in same direction) me and another gal in Kyiv, and tapped me on shoulder as she passed.  Never said a word though; thank heavens.

Once, I even passed (going opposite directions) woman from Odessa on escalator in Kyiv when I was with different woman.

[Boethius]

Wallm, it shouldn't be hard to set up additional dates so long as you have wifi and your regular channels of communication.  You just apply this to each city.  If you are only seeing one in the other cities outside Kiev, then that's that.  If you have multiple dates in Kiev, just manage it to reduce the likelihood that I previous date would walk in on you.  Kiev is big enough that you can do that.  I don't know about the other cities, but imagine it is also possible there.

No, Kyiv really isn't, especially not for foreigners who are typically in the city centre.

[wallm]

No, it really isn't, especially not for foreigners who are typically in the city centre.

I would agree with that.

When I was in Kiev, I frequented the top end restaurants in the city center, after going to a couple of horrible cafes. Most of the ladies I saw there did mention they had never been to those restaurants much to my surprise. I suppose the cost comes into play for them. I am looking forward to going back to that Georgian restaurant which was fantastic.

[Brillynt]

I would agree with that.

When I was in Kiev, I frequented the top end restaurants in the city center, after going to a couple of horrible cafes. Most of the ladies I saw there did mention they had never been to those restaurants much to my surprise. I suppose the cost comes into play for them. I am looking forward to going back to that Georgian restaurant which was fantastic.

If that was the Khinkali Georgian restaurant close to Gulliver mall, then I agree it was excellent.  I was there last month for my birthday and they gave me 30% discount for my birthday    Needless to say I left the server a very good tip to show my appreciation for doing that for me.  Here is the link to the restaurant. http://www.khinkali.com.ua/ The food was excellent, the service was excellent. If you book a reservation online you get a 15% discount on your check.

[Trenchcoat]

Isn't it kind of hard to set up once there? I am going 3 different cities. Need airline (puddle jumpers in case of UIA) ahead of time and hotel/apartment reservations. I could do it if I am seeing them all in one city I suppose but that is not so. The 3 in Kiev I could possibly do it that way. It would be kind of funny if I am on a date with one and the previous date walks in on us.

I shall search for Bill's approach.

I agree with your above comment, visiting a girl one at a time is ridiculous, sure some have made it work and the girl knows your especially seeing her but if the chemistry is not there then as far as a relationship is concerned its a wasted journey. On a visit one I would do no more than 4 days with the girl - its just frustrating if it turns out there is no chemistry there being together much longer than that (even four days can get a bit frustrating).

I think for any girl to believe you are just seeing her you'll have to be seeing her for about four days on the trot (three absolute minimum). I really don't believe you can state 'business trip' unless your job really does lend itself to the likelyhood of business out that way - in most cases it will not be a convincing excuse hence BillyB's suggestion of being upfront and honest the best for any girls you are seeing less than four days. Lining up a girl to kick you of in a city you've never been to for four days before moving onto other girls is not a bad idea. She can act as tour guide and get you acclimatized and hopefully in the mood.

So hence why a month long visit I think is a good idea, you can spend first four days with a girl then see others - gives you plenty of time. I was at a loose end in Nikolaev in the summer for a day or two and had the option of banging away on my laptop to set up another date or spend those two days enjoying the summer and checking out the city/situation what the culture is like - I chose the latter. If you just allow yourself a week that's fine for one girl but could ruin your vacation if it goes south as it may give you little time to line up another.

If you've already got three girls to visit in each city then I would say that is fine to go with. Its enough to justify the journey and I don't think you'll be needing anymore depending on how much time you'll be spending in each city. If your talking one in each city then consider how much time you have devoted to each city and feasibility of calling another girl up if time is short. I would either use the monthly paid dating sites or just Mamba stating to the girl that 'your here do you want to meet up' in the message as other wise it may take a long time on that site.

I'm just starting up my search again and using the dating sites to line myself up with a girl to get me 'warmed up' on arrival After that I'll be using a variety of methods but will be using the dating sites as a fallback should any on these methods not show fruition. I'm probably heading for March though, possibly April to avoid the real bad weather. Few look good I think when there entombed with a bulk of clothing.

[wallm]

If that was the Khinkali Georgian restaurant close to Gulliver mall, then I agree it was excellent.  I was there last month for my birthday and they gave me 30% discount for my birthday    Needless to say I left the server a very good tip to show my appreciation for doing that for me.  Here is the link to the restaurant. http://www.khinkali.com.ua/ The food was excellent, the service was excellent. If you book a reservation online you get a 15% discount on your check.

Eew....I don't like restaurants that post pictures of food with prices on them on a website. Cheesy...

The one I am talking about is Shoti at 9 Mechnykova St, a quick walk from Gulliver. It is excellent except for the desserts.

[GQBlues]

....These Ukrainian women do seem a little touchy about me seeing others. I have heard them comment to me about that. I guess I have to start lying that I am not seeing anyone else when they ask me. (if I like the one asking)

It's been ages for me since I peeked on the trip report section...

wallm, my only suggestion for you is do not attempt to do something you're not accustomed to doing at home. Most men on this endeavor can't seem to distinguish the line between 'meeting' from 'dating'. It should matter little how anyone else defines the two, it should only matter how you define it.

I am one of the WMVM. Married for almost 13 years now. Just as it was here at home, my first trip to Russia (Moscow) was for nothing more than to meet the women I reached out to for the opportunity to meet in person. That's it. No promises, no innuendos, no talk of marriage. We were all to meet and explore where that meeting will lead to for each of us. IMHO, meeting in person have obvious realities you cannot obtain from any other means of communication.

As for women seeing you while with another. Been there, done that more than a few times over. On example, I was coming back from spending half the day with one of the women I went to meet (she stayed in the same hotel, Marriot-Tverskaya - for a couple of days I did - different room - for the meet). As we were walking to the elevator, I noticed a devushka sitting in the waiting lobby looking at us. I asked the girl I was with to wait a while, walked over to the gal, asked her if she was who I though she was, and she confirmed it. She was a little early for our meeting. I introduced, then excused, myself and told her I just need to escort the other lady to her room and will soon be back. Gorgeous and gracious that woman was in her suit. She is/was an attorney that worked for the City.

As for the other gal, she was the one who actually reminded me that maybe we should head back to the hotel so we don't get tied up and I'd be late for my meet. When we got to the door of her room, all she asked was for us to be careful and that I call her once I'm back to my room later.

No additional discussion, justification, apologies or drama ensued. In short, it wasn't a big deal. If this is not something you believe you can handle, then don't do it.

If you do not lie to any of the women you're communicating now, and they to you, there's absolutely nothing to worry about. My philosophy had always been: "How can you know you made the right choice, if you didn't afford yourself choices to make it from?".

A WMVM is nothing more than a WOVO waiting to happen.

[Boethius]

Eew....I don't like restaurants that post pictures of food with prices on them on a website. Cheesy...

Their audience is local, and for the locals, most of whom have limited funds, choosing a restaurant is a big deal.