More Bad News for Ukraine

[Trenchcoat]

This sort of post is EXACTLY why I get scared 'bout [ clueless ]  folks having the right to vote in the BREXIT referendum ..


TC.. I'm pleased to inform you that your idea was implemented..


When new members join - existing member states can and did/ do impose a time period whereby the freedom to work was only after SEVEN YEARS ..It was called a derogation from the Directive.


Cameron negotiated further derogations - but no-one paid attention ... believing 'we'd'  ''stop immigration'' and ''save money ''


Bulgaria and Romania joined on New Year's Day 2007 and UKIP would have had us believe that Jan 1st 2014 would bring 'zillions' of them - no longer needing work permits ..[ bashes head against brick wall ] ..

They were not implemented - there should have been a permanent ban on freedom of movement with the new member states that is what I am arguing, not a seven year wait period then all havoc is let loose. The point being is that it should take most likely decades for these states to obtain full membership status whereby their economies are on a par with full member states so they don't reck untold misery on these member states populations.

The problem is that they EU tried to rush the whole process two much and avoid a two speed EU for the reason of ego, it didn't sound good or chime with there egotistical sense of being the creators of the EU superstate as their legacy. They forgot though the deep underlying social & economic problems of it all they were so  carried away with their political dream. It should have all happened on cautious step at a time, slowly based on, on the ground practicalities. Greece too should have been made an Entry member based on its weak economy burdened down by too much debt.The EU should have been doing due diligence on the weaker economies in Europe such as Greece and they were not, competent?No I don't think so - how can we be expected to vote for an EU that is not doing the job it should be doing - its basic, these basic processes of oversight should be set up before problems occur and sort them out early on, not after and let the crises go on for weeks & months wreaking untold misery and damage.

[papakota]

Trenchcoat,
What makes you think that even a few decades would radically change the situation in poor European states? A few centuries didn't help so far. That's first. Second is that there is no need to give hundreds of billions of Euros to countries like Greece. It's not EU's fault that someone made that decision. Freedom of residence in itself shouldn't be an issue for richer EU countries. Just because someone with Bulgarian passport has a right to work in the UK, doesn't mean that they would be automatically employed. If they work, then they pay taxes. If they don't, UK shouldn't have an obligation to support them. Bulgaria must support its citizens. Either way, it shouldn't be an issue for the UK. So frankly, I don't understand the problem. As a matter of fact, EU citizens can be deported if they can't get a job within a certain time frame. They can't just live indefinitely in another EU member state if they can't demonstrate their legal source of income.

[Trenchcoat]

Trenchcoat,
What makes you think that even a few decades would radically change the situation in poor European states? A few centuries didn't help so far. That's first. Second is that there is no need to give hundreds of billions of Euros to countries like Greece. It's not EU's fault that someone made that decision. Freedom of residence in itself shouldn't be an issue for richer EU countries. Just because someone with Bulgarian passport has a right to work in the UK, doesn't mean that they would be automatically employed. If they work, then they pay taxes. If they don't, UK shouldn't have an obligation to support them. Bulgaria must support its citizens. Either way, it shouldn't be an issue for the UK. So frankly, I don't understand the problem. As a matter of fact, EU citizens can be deported if they can't get a job within a certain time frame. They can't just live indefinitely in another EU member state if they can't demonstrate their legal source of income.

Its an issue, the UK just can't take the large population surges this causes from the freedom of movement policy of the EU from poor Eastern Block countries. Simply put the UK housing stock is running out and East European immigrants are moving in quicker than housing can be built. It takes moments for an east european to jump on a plane but it can commonly take up to around a year to build a house, not least to say for finding land suitable to which to build. This has push house prices up to ridiculous levels in most parts of the UK. With Greece the problem is very much an EU problem, it has affected the whole of the EU and more so countries that have adopted the Euro. In fact the Euro hastened the problem in Greece as the greek government could not print more Euros to pay down its debt. The Greek problem has not gone away. Fact of the matter is Europe is essentially two speed in economic development, this has been demonstrated by the crises, but the EU blindly ignore this obvious difference and impose a one speed Europe - one where poor declining economies like Greece are hopelessly at odds with growing developed economies like the UK & Germany, its just pure idiocy.

My point is that the EU should manage the situation, its not merely good enough to say, 'hey join up' and then disown itself from the fallout of certain member states situations. Its a two speed Europe, we need to accept that and organise a two speed EU with Entry Level status and Full Member Status depending on whether the country is economically advanced enough or economically deficient. Give Entry Level membership on a wider basis but build in sufficient restricted freedom of movement to Full Member states. Anything else is pure havoc. 

[papakota]

Its an issue, the UK just can't take the large population surges this causes from the freedom of movement policy of the EU from poor Eastern Block countries. Simply put the UK housing stock is running out and East European immigrants are moving in quicker than housing can be built. It takes moments for an east european to jump on a plane but it can commonly take up to around a year to build a house, not least to say for finding land suitable to which to build. This has push house prices up to ridiculous levels in most parts of the UK. With Greece the problem is very much an EU problem, it has affected the whole of the EU and more so countries that have adopted the Euro. In fact the Euro hastened the problem in Greece as the greek government could not print more Euros to pay down its debt. The Greek problem has not gone away. Fact of the matter is Europe is essentially two speed in economic development, this has been demonstrated by the crises, but the EU blindly ignore this obvious difference and impose a one speed Europe - one where poor declining economies like Greece are hopelessly at odds with growing developed economies like the UK & Germany, its just pure idiocy.

My point is that the EU should manage the situation, its not merely good enough to say, 'hey join up' and then disown itself from the fallout of certain member states situations. Its a two speed Europe, we need to accept that and organise a two speed EU with Entry Level status and Full Member Status depending on whether the country is economically advanced enough or economically deficient. Give Entry Level membership on a wider basis but build in sufficient restricted freedom of movement to Full Member states. Anything else is pure havoc.

If UK doesn't want to stay in EU, then why it's not leaving it after the BREXIT? Usually one leaves bad things pretty fast.
I totally disagree with your idea of a "two-tier EU". It's better then not to have EU at all. No country would want to be in a second best list. My idea is totally opposite of yours. It's that EU should be another superpower. Kinda like USA or USSR. Only then it all makes sense. One country, one language, one capital.

[Boethius]

If UK doesn't want to stay in EU, then why it's not leaving it after the BREXIT? Usually one leaves bad things pretty fast.

The withdrawal of the UK from the EU is part of a treaty (the Lisbon Treaty).  It is not a matter of merely stating "we withdraw".  What happens to EU nationals living in the UK?  What happens to UK nationals living within the EU?  What happens to funds contributed by the UK to various EU agencies?  When do funds the EU contributes to the UK cease to be advanced? 


The purpose of the negotiation is to cause as little disruption as possible to the lives and prosperity of all affected.

[msmob]

Its an issue, the UK just can't take the large population surges this causes from the freedom of movement policy of the EU from poor Eastern Block countries.

Says WHO? You ?

Simply put the UK housing stock is running out and East European immigrants are moving in quicker than housing can be built. It takes moments for an east european to jump on a plane but it can commonly take up to around a year to build a house, not least to say for finding land suitable to which to build. This has push house prices up to ridiculous levels in most parts of the UK.

TC, house prices FELL from 2007 until two years ago in most of the UK... In Northern Ireland the ave. house price is now at 2003/4 levels



THE main issue is the demand to live in the SE. There are other parts of the UK with much less prices and lower unemployment rates.

With Greece the problem is very much an EU problem, it has affected the whole of the EU and more so countries that have adopted the Euro. In fact the Euro hastened the problem in Greece as the greek government could not print more Euros to pay down its debt.

Nope, successive Greek Govts. massaged the books to get into the Euro zone - as it was a train wreck economy BEFORE .. That they were allowed to join showed the extend of the momentum behind the Euro project.

The EU/EEA is already a two-tier project - with Norway, Switzerland choosing not to be full members of the EU  - but gaining access to the single-market.