Latest info re immigration from Trump

[2tallbill]

banning 134 million people from entering the US is reckless and clueless

He said that was what he would do. Is the left really going to have
kittens every time he does exactly what he said he would do?

[tfcrew]

  banning 134 million people from entering the US is reckless and clueless 

Here's a clue.....Why don't you take half of them in your house?

[msmob]

Don't hold your breath. This latest faux crisis is a tempest in a teacup created by the left wing and liberal media 'monkeys'...This too shall pass.

'faux crisis ? '

Imagine you had family coming and they boarded a plane to the USA and became 'illegal' en route and you knew they were likely to be sent back ..

OR ...

You are a British citizen - a VET [pet doctor]   ( born in Iraq ) on hols in the Caribbean - transiting - legally - back home - same route as you came - through NY  - at the end of your hols and you are refused boarding


OR ..

You are  British Citizen - also born in Iraq - having visited the US Embassy - to ensure lots of extra checks were made to get a Visa.. You are a prominent Right Wing Conservative Govt  Cabinet Minister - and your kids study at Princeton - but you're told - you are now 'banned' on Friday ... not banned on Sunday - according to info supplied from the US to the UK Foreign Office - but still banned on Monday...


OR.. you are Sir Mo Farah - Multiple Gold medal holder at 5k and 10km and banned from returning to train

OR

an Iranian Oscar nominee ..

'Tramp' and his team created this farce .. how DO you work out it is the work of 'Liberals or Left wing media' ?

[tfcrew]

how DO you work out it  ?

You mean how do you work it out?
Mhr7 takes half of them.....
You take the other half. 

[msmob]

You mean how do you work it out

..is the work of 'Liberals or Left wing media' ?

Mhr7 takes half of them.....
You take the other half.

tfcrew: your inability to manipulate posts into something approaching the wit of primary school child's  'humour' isn't something you need to keep proving ...

[Gator]

He said that was what he would do. Is the left really going to have
kittens every time he does exactly what he said he would do?

 

Did anyone remind Moby it is a temporary ban (90 days)?   

It would be better if Trump, instead of saying the roll out went well, had admitted a few people were delayed unnecessarily. 

Nevertheless, Trump had a good first week.   Obama,  when he first became President, accomplished far less even though he had more of his Cabinet in place.     

[JayH]

The illogicality of the whole exercise ---  and the blind mindless support and rationalisation of Trump does no one any credit.

It is an ill thought through concept  with even worse execution.

The blind illogical support is doing America a disservice.

The are so many stories of the extent of the disruption out there --  but -- some really hit home when it gets close.

EG --  Australian passport holder with US entry visa and history of US visits.He arrived in US at weekend and was detained  and subsequently denied entry. The reason --he had a current visa for Iran  in his passport.
He is Aus born,only one passport, a businessman with easy to find details on the net and no apparent issues--other than that visa.

His story actually came on the evening news as I posted in this thread yesterday.

Now for me  -- I have a new recently issued passport. My previous expired passport has visas and entry( & exit) details  for some of the countries on the US list.
Chances are that previous history will be accessible to US authorities.
I would not have even considered it an issue to enter the US --until I saw this story.

Some of you posting in support of Trump -- are not thinking this through at all.

[JayH]

Did anyone remind Moby it is a temporary ban (90 days)?   
   

And that is exactly what makes  a zero tolerance enforcement all the more ridiculous.

[Brasscasing]

'faux crisis ? '

Imagine you had family coming and they boarded a plane to the USA and became 'illegal' en route and you knew they were likely to be sent back ..

OR ...

You are a British citizen - a VET [pet doctor]   ( born in Iraq ) on hols in the Caribbean - transiting - legally - back home - same route as you came - through NY  - at the end of your hols and you are refused boarding


OR ..

You are  British Citizen - also born in Iraq - having visited the US Embassy - to ensure lots of extra checks were made to get a Visa.. You are a prominent Right Wing Conservative Govt  Cabinet Minister - and your kids study at Princeton - but you're told - you are now 'banned' on Friday ... not banned on Sunday - according to info supplied from the US to the UK Foreign Office - but still banned on Monday...


OR.. you are Sir Mo Farah - Multiple Gold medal holder at 5k and 10km and banned from returning to train

OR

an Iranian Oscar nominee ..

'Tramp' and his team created this farce .. how DO you work out it is the work of 'Liberals or Left wing media' ?

And now the real situation...

..."President Trump signed on Friday an executive order that severely restricts immigration from seven Muslim countries, suspends all refugee admission for 120 days, and bars all Syrian refugees indefinitely."...

Who is not affected?

..."The executive order applies only to non-U.S. citizens, so anyone with U.S. citizenship—whether that person in natural-born or naturalized—is not affected."...

..."Who is affected?

For 120 days, the order bars the entry of any refugee who is awaiting resettlement in the U.S. It also prohibits all Syrian refugees from entering the U.S. until further notice. Additionally, it bans the citizens of seven majority-Muslim countries—Iraq, Iran, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Libya, and Yemen—from entering the U.S. on any visa category.*"...

..."On Saturday this included individuals who are permanent residents of the U.S. (green-card holders) who were traveling overseas to visit family or for work—though a senior administration official said their applications would be considered on a case-by-case basis. The official also said green-card holders from those countries who are in the U.S. will have to meet with a consular officer before leaving the U.S."...

..."On Sunday evening, John Kelly, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, offered more definitive guidance. “In applying the provisions of the president’s executive order, I hereby deem the entry of lawful permanent residents to be in the national interest,” he said in a statement. “Accordingly, absent the receipt of significant derogatory information indicating a serious threat to public safety and welfare, lawful permanent resident status will be a dispositive factor in our case-by-case determinations.”...

..."The order also targets individuals of those countries who hold dual citizenship with another country. For instance, an individual who holds both Iraqi and Canadian citizenships—though the U.K. foreign secretary said the U.S. had assured him it didn’t apply to U.K. nationals.

It does not apply to individuals who hold U.S. citizenship along with citizenship of another country—though a CBP agent can presumably question such a person based on his or her discretion."...

..." the seven counties put on the list were chosen by the Obama administration. Indeed, it has its roots in the visa-waiver program. The U.S. allows the citizens of more than 30 countries to visit for short stays without a visa under this program. But that visa waiver does not apply if a citizen of an eligible country has visited—with some exceptions—Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011—under measures put in place by the Obama administration. Those individuals must apply for a visa at a U.S. consulate. These seven countries are listed under section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) of the U.S. code, and it is this code that Trump’s executive order cited while banning citizens of those nations.

http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-order-muslims/514844/

So...

1) Refugees or chose traveling under the effected visas have not been deemed 'illegal'. An illegal alien is defined under a different US Act.

2) UK citizens traveling abroad or making connections through the US are not effected by this EO. More hysteria.

3) So put a call through to the White House and lodge a customer service complaint that a foreign national has been inconvenienced with his travel plans.

4) Who cares? There's nothing in the Constitution that says foreign athletes have the right to train in the US. edit: Besides, this guy isn't effected.

5) Again, so what? Gawd forbid some Iranian actor can't travel to Hollywood to be at the Oscars.

Are you actually reading this pablum of yours before posting it?

The United States is not some international Bus Stop, amusement park, homeless shelter or refugee camp.

You or anyone else, not a US citizen, do not have the gawd given right to travel to the US for whatever reason just because it's convenient.

Visas are a privilege granted at the pleasure of the US government. If the administration decides to withdraw or suspend a visa program due to national security reasons for protection of it's own citizens then that's their business and not an invitation for the rest of the world's 'tramps' to be whinging.

Brass

[msmob]

Did anyone remind Moby it is a temporary ban (90 days)?   

Did anyone remind Gator that implementing the 'temporary ban' should NOT have effected folks who were already in the air ?

Did anyone remind Gator that Trump or his operatives STILL - 3 days later - can't seem to agree on which nations dual nationals are exempt ...   Hardly a ringing endorsement of efficiency / chain of command

Nevertheless, Trump had a good first week.   

Really, Phil ? He keeps proving he's not wearing any clothes ....    I've NEVER known such antipathy to a US President in the UK ...  That makes me uncomfortable ..   

[tfcrew]

 your inability to manipulate posts 

 

It's cute how people who live on the other side of the world wish to dictate American policy.
So wish in one hand and deposit yourself in the other.
 

 

[msmob]

 

It's cute how people who live on the other side of the world wish to dictate American policy.
So wish in one hand and deposit yourself in the other.

tfcrew: So Geography and remembering what you have posted are also not your strong points ?

Clue: 'End of Europe' ..

[tfcrew]

  'End of Europe' ..

In that thread, I did not 'dictate' any policy.
So see...you never were that clever

[msmob]

In that thread, I did not 'dictate' any policy.
So see...you never were that clever

Goodness - you have it bad ..denial AND memory issues, now? ..  You've needed my help on several issues .. still feeling smarter ? ...   

Please feel free to walk onto the next 'punch' .. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

[fathertime]

Visas are a privilege granted at the pleasure of the US government. If the administration decides to withdraw or suspend a visa program due to national security reasons for protection of it's own citizens then that's their business and not an invitation for the rest of the world's 'tramps' to be whinging.

Brass

Personally I think this is mostly for show. 


I've watched the video LFU posted with Conway where a Trump tweet was referenced searching for terrorists.  If that is the case, why isn't Saudi Arabia included, and what about Pakistan?   I'm having a hard time taking Trump at his word on this one.  This can't truly be about searching for terrorists without including those two countries.  So why were these countries cherry picked and two of the more obvious havens for past terror acts were ignored.  Perhaps you can help me with this one.


Thanks,
Fathertime!   

[Brasscasing]

Personally I think this is mostly for show. 

Or maybe just keeping his word...This made me chuckle, FT. It reminds me of just this morning. I was watching two pundits go at it on one of the cable news shows and the conversation went something like this...

Pundit 1 " Yes, but he's following through on what he campaigned on."

Pundit 2 " It was a campaign promise!...No one expects him to actually keep a campaign promise!"

...No kidding?...

I've watched the video LFU posted with Conway where a Trump tweet was referenced searching for terrorists.  If that is the case, why isn't Saudi Arabia included, and what about Pakistan?   I'm having a hard time taking Trump at his word on this one.  This can't truly be about searching for terrorists without including those two countries.  So why were these countries cherry picked and two of the more obvious havens for past terror acts were ignored.  Perhaps you can help me with this one.

Maybe he's got other plans for those two countries, who knows.

On the face of it he went by Obama's list from 2011 that's already been promulgated ( see my above link). 

Brass

[LiveFromUkraine]

Personally I think this is mostly for show. 


I've watched the video LFU posted with Conway where a Trump tweet was referenced searching for terrorists.  If that is the case, why isn't Saudi Arabia included, and what about Pakistan?   I'm having a hard time taking Trump at his word on this one.  This can't truly be about searching for terrorists without including those two countries.  So why were these countries cherry picked and two of the more obvious havens for past terror acts were ignored.  Perhaps you can help me with this one.


Thanks,
Fathertime!

Preibus stated more countries could be added.  It looks like they used Obama's list as a starting point.

[fathertime]

Or maybe just keeping his word...This made me chuckle, FT.

Maybe he's got other plans for those two countries, who knows.

On the face of it he went by Obama's list from 2011 that's already been promulgated ( see my above link). 

Brass

Maybe he has other plans Saudi Arabia/Pakistan, but the point of this undertaking was presumably to keep america safe.  I already thought security was going pretty good, but regardless, his stated concern was people would be entering the country immediately so there was no warning prior to the current ban.  Now presumably people in Saudi Arabia/Pakistan that wish to do harm have the warning he mentioned he doesn't want them to have.  So far, I'm not seeing your explanation as plausible.  It may just be that he doesn't want to offend nations like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan because it hits back at us too much, I could buy that explanation.  It is much easier to hit a nation like Somalia where the investment is minimal in comparison. The problem with that explanation is that it pops a hole in what he is attempting to float currently.  In any event, it is going to be interesting to see how this plays out as the weeks go by.


Fathertime!   

[LiveFromUkraine]

Personally I think this is mostly for show. 


I've watched the video LFU posted with Conway where a Trump tweet was referenced searching for terrorists.  If that is the case, why isn't Saudi Arabia included, and what about Pakistan?   I'm having a hard time taking Trump at his word on this one.  This can't truly be about searching for terrorists without including those two countries.  So why were these countries cherry picked and two of the more obvious havens for past terror acts were ignored.  Perhaps you can help me with this one.


Thanks,
Fathertime!

FT, this interview will explain more...


http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-priebus-interview-immigration-ban-could-include-more-countries-865258563844

[tfcrew]

You've needed my help on several issues 
 

  Really? But you failed to provide your help on what I'd like to know most .....
HOW TO GET FREE STUFF !!!

I would like to ask one thing...why can't the UK get something besides a mealy mouth, wishy washy, flip flop prime minister?

May identifies as a one-nation conservative and has been characterised as a liberal conservative.
Not to be confused with Conservative liberalism
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_May
 
Like saying a communistic-capitalist [not to be confused with a capitalistic-communist]

not dictating policy

[Brasscasing]

Maybe he has other plans Saudi Arabia/Pakistan, but the point of this undertaking was presumably to keep america safe.  I already thought security was going pretty good, but regardless, his stated concern was people would be entering the country immediately so there was no warning prior to the current ban.  Now presumably people in Saudi Arabia/Pakistan that wish to do harm have the warning he mentioned he doesn't want them to have. So far, I'm not seeing your explanation as plausible.  It may just be that he doesn't want to offend nations like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan because it hits back at us too much, I could buy that explanation.  It is much easier to hit a nation like Somalia where the investment is minimal in comparison. The problem with that explanation is that it pops a hole in what he is attempting to float currently.  In any event, it is going to be interesting to see how this plays out as the weeks go by.

It's more The Atlantic's explanation than mine...

 ..."Indeed, it has its roots in the visa-waiver program. The U.S. allows the citizens of more than 30 countries to visit for short stays without a visa under this program. But that visa waiver does not apply if a citizen of an eligible country has visited—with some exceptions—Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, or Yemen on or after March 1, 2011—under measures put in place by the Obama administration. Those individuals must apply for a visa at a U.S. consulate. These seven countries are listed under section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) of the U.S. code, and it is this code that Trump’s executive order cited while banning citizens of those nations.

http://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-order-muslims/514844/

As LFU posted more countries may be added as time goes on.

Brass

[pitbull]

OMG! The fatass troglodyte has just fired the acting Attorney General, proposed that the state department personnel filing dissent leave, and restructured the National Security Council to exclude the CIA director and to include the white supremacist Bannon.


Nixon is turning in his grave.


That pee tape with the Russian prostitutes is so coming out!!!  [size=78%] [/size]

[alex330]

We'll take the orangutan label. Murders in the Rue Morgue. Keep them coming.

[Gator]

Really, Phil ? He keeps proving he's not wearing any clothes .... 

Yes.  Did not stop him from jumping into the deep end of the pool, albeit clumsily.  I expect more of the same from a man of action.  I do not expect him to stop and relax for afternoon tea with a watercress sandwich (crust removed).   

A couple of questions for you:

1.  Was any harm done other than inconveniencing a  few travelers? 
2.  Do you feel immigrants from these countries pose an assed security risk?     
 

  I've NEVER known such antipathy to a US President in the UK ...  That makes me uncomfortable ..   

Why are you uncomfortable?  This is totally expected. 

Trump is not a politician.  Unlike wimpy politicians who plan carefully not to make a mistake and as a result accomplish little, he feels the need to be bold to accomplish a lot, knowing he will make mistakes along the way.  General Patton.