Thanks for your feedback - "Single Women International" is our response

[ajb]

Hi everyone,

I'm Andrew, one of the developers for a site called Ukraine Brides Agency, discussed here on this forum. There are many posts in that topic and while some impressions were positive, most had the view that due to our use of local agencies and the PPL payment model, the site was less than reputable. While we disagree with that position, we certainly understand why many think that following their experiences at other sites. All the same, we've been working on a response to this feedback and wanted to share with you what we've come up with.

Single Women International is a site we created to address the concerns that many of you brought up in that topic. It has been in the works for around 8-9 months and launched a couple of weeks ago. I thought it fitting to post an update here considering it was this forum that largely encouraged this work to start happening.

Single Women International uses a monthly subscription model where users are free to share contact details and communicate off-site if they wish. How we've presented our subscription model we think is one of the most transparent and most easily understood in the industry. The new site retains many of the great features that Ukraine Brides Agency has (integrated audio/video chat, powerful advanced searches, actual IMBRA compliance), but cuts out the agency middleman for those that are happy with less hand-holding.

We still do believe that a genuine PPL website using carefully vetted reputable agencies can provide something to a particular niche, so for those that want a premium experience (personal 24/7 support, translations, etc.), Ukraine Brides Agency is still offering premium and personalised services. For everyone else, we proudly offer this new service.

We wanted to say a big thanks to those users that did respectfully engage with us, didn't write us off as just another scam and provided invaluable feedback. We'd hope for the same from this topic too We've used your feedback to create what we think is the best international dating site around. So please register, have a look around the site that you helped create and feel free to get back to us with some more feedback!

Warm regards,
Andrew

[jone]

You would do yourself a great service by not trying to plug PPL or PPC here in any capacity.  We know it for what it is, a ripoff that you as amalgamators have no control over.

Please drop the PPL BS and tell us, factually how you compare to direct subscription services like Elena's Models? 

Pricing, Direct Emails, etc.

Your company and other amalgamators have done a great disservice to the true Eastern European bride seeker by constantly allowing them to be cheated and lied to by agencies that only care about getting paid.  Why should we believe you now?

Sorry, but fool me once, shame on you, now you want to come back for a second round.  Prove that your service is not the ripoff PPL sites are.

[ajb]

As stated, Single Women International is a subscription service.

[jone]

As stated, Single Women International is a subscription service.

By stating that you are a subscription service, tells us nothing. 

I looked at your website. 

Your entire homepage is pricing options.  If you had any women available, shouldn't those be your lead-in?  Subscription services use the women that they have - with the availability to click on the woman, but not communicate with them unless subscribed. 

Don't know of anyone who would pay, absent seeing the women.  Sorry for the poor response, but your credibility is not high when your claim to fame is still your PPL site.

[ajb]

By stating that you are a subscription service, tells us nothing. 

I looked at your website. 

Your entire homepage is pricing options.  If you had any women available, shouldn't those be your lead-in?  Subscription services use the women that they have - with the availability to click on the woman, but not communicate with them unless subscribed. 

Don't know of anyone who would pay, absent seeing the women.  Sorry for the poor response, but your credibility is not high when your claim to fame is still your PPL site.

I think you're looking at the wrong page. There is no pricing information on the home page, only on the membership page.

After registering you are able to search for profiles - there is no requirement to pay anything to do that. You can also read any messages sent to you or respond using a nudge (or "expression of interest") without paying.

After signing up for a monthly membership plan you are free to message and ask for contact details and communicate off-site. For US citizens, there is a process to go through for IMBRA compliancy but it's all integrated in to the site. Alternatively you can use the integrated messaging or live video chat service instead.

[msmob]

I looked at the site and it is 'clean' in design - but not clear about membership details - esp. if you read the OPs initial response - which seemed to suggest a PPL model - which - historically would have me advising - do NOT pay using this business model.






My experience is that there are agencies that simply cannot be trusted and you communicate with mules - not the lady in the photo.


You cannot control these agencies.


I'm sorry, but as honest as you may intend to be ....I don't doubt you for a second .. others before you have ruined this model

Don't try to go there

]Jone raises another good point ... the sites that get sign ups and credit card details allow browsing of ladies profiles - one photo and some details - and are invited to join AFTER viewing .

I think this is another mistake you are making

Please take these observations in the constructive sense they were intended and good luck

[ajb]

Hey, thanks for your feedback msmob.

I looked at the site and it is 'clean' in design - but not clear about membership details - esp. if you read the OPs initial response - which seemed to suggest a PPL model - which - historically would have me advising - do NOT pay using this business model.

Sorry about that - discussing PPL clearly caused some confusion about how it related to Single Women International. I hope my follow up post cleared that up as unfortunately I'm unable to edit my first post now. SWI is a subscription based site where the only cost for communicating is the monthly membership fee. I think the membership page does a pretty good job of making this clear and hope that it was only my post that caused the confusion?

Jone raises another good point ... the sites that get sign ups and credit card details allow browsing of ladies profiles - one photo and some details - and are invited to join AFTER viewing ..

I think this is another mistake you are making

Please take these observations in the constructive sense they were intended and good luck

I have always been a fan of having public search and profiles but this one was a decision for the business/marketing people. Noted, there are some sites that have public profiles but the majority do not from what we have seen. I'll certainly bring this up for discussion again - thanks for the advice!

[Nightwish]

well according to your search engine on the site.. there aint much activity.. only seen one woman online at any time today, and she has been online since made an account yesterday
she was online last evening (her time 11pm), she was online last night (her time 3am), she was online this morning (her time 8am) and she is still online 
real stubborn lady that...

but I did manage to get 2 letters, without seeing the ladys in question online.. 

[ajb]

Thanks for registering Nightwish.

With the site only having launched in the last couple weeks, no there's not too much activity. The ladies have been registered long before the site went live so I suspect many of them are waiting for a few more men to register. There are a number of men signing up daily, so I expect this to change within the next few weeks.

From the looks of the logs, it appears like that specific lady had left her browser open with her logged in. I've gone and forced a logout. Looks like we'll need to make some changes to stop this from happening in the future. Thanks for noticing! In fact... now you mention it - you appear as online now too (in the admin/lady search). Are you still logged in? Maybe there's a bug here.

As for your 2 letters, I've definitely seen those two ladies online at some point. Maybe you missed them?

Thanks again for registering and for your feedback

[Nightwish]

I am most likely still logged in, since I never close down my browser or computer, like ever..

well I guess we will see how it turns out, at least this is a more honest way to charge for this.. so time will tell if you get any sincere and active ladies in there.

With Chat and Video support you sure have a advantage to many other free and subscription sites..
that AND that you let non-paying members read the letters sent to them. Will tempt more men to actually pay that fee to be able to reply I think. Instead of just seeing they got an email and its blurred out or you are directed to a "pay now or no read" page..

[ajb]

With Chat and Video support you sure have a advantage to many other free and subscription sites..
that AND that you let non-paying members read the letters sent to them. Will tempt more men to actually pay that fee to be able to reply I think. Instead of just seeing they got an email and its blurred out or you are directed to a "pay now or no read" page..

Yes, our approach with this site has been to be as transparent as possible. We have found this is not very common in the industry so we hope that it is recognised and appreciated by the men that decide to use the site

Jone raises another good point ... the sites that get sign ups and credit card details allow browsing of ladies profiles - one photo and some details - and are invited to join AFTER viewing .

I think this is another mistake you are making

Going back to this point, as we think you're right. It doesn't really line up with our efforts to be transparent as mentioned above. I have presented this case to management and they agree. I've just updated the site to allow public searching and viewing of profiles. Feel free to browse by clicking on a featured lady's profile on the home page or click the link under them to go to the search page. Thanks again for your feedback - as you can see, we do listen and implement changes where possible.

[msmob]

Oho !

I wish all companies were as quick to listen to feedback and implement )



 

[ajb]

Ha! There are certainly benefits in being a smaller operation. Less red tape!

[Bounder]

By stating that you are a subscription service, tells us nothing. 

I looked at your website. 

Your entire homepage is pricing options.  If you had any women available, shouldn't those be your lead-in?  Subscription services use the women that they have - with the availability to click on the woman, but not communicate with them unless subscribed. 

Don't know of anyone who would pay, absent seeing the women.  Sorry for the poor response, but your credibility is not high when your claim to fame is still your PPL site.

Jone, any scam site can pull up hot lady pictures for you to oogle your eyes at.  The proof is in the pudding - real girls looking for real relationships.

The lead in is good for advertising, but only if it is leading to something real..

[RoboCop]

I agree with everyone else about pay per letter sites and how they are inherently scams. There is something extremely fishy and dubious about your site Single Women International.

The fact you still maintain that PPL services constitute a "premium" tells me you have created this website as a means of engaging in damage control.

[drsecu]

and launched a couple of weeks ago.

How did people in your success stories get married 3 months ago if you just started the site several weeks ago?

What is the end user getting getting for $50/month that would justify the expense over free sites (like fdating) that like have tons more real women?  How do the women know to sign up for your site, do you advertise to them?  Can you post pics of your ads or billboards.

[ajb]

I agree with everyone else about pay per letter sites and how they are inherently scams. There is something extremely fishy and dubious about your site Single Women International.

The fact you still maintain that PPL services constitute a "premium" tells me you have created this website as a means of engaging in damage control.

To clarify, of our two sites, we present UBA as a premium service, not all PPL websites. The UBA business model means we can afford to invest in each customer individually (personal support, matchmaking, etc) - that site relies on quality over quantity. On the other hand, Single Women International and other subscription sites must rely on numbers. You can absolutely argue that it doesn't make sense for you to use UBA over SWI, but we can say beyond a doubt that there are men out there than want that extra service and are happy to pay for it.

Single Women International was borne out of feedback we received, on this forum and other places, that showed there was a market out there that was not interested in paying for this extra service (or who took issue with the payment model itself). This is also obvious with the success of subscription based dating sites. Having these two sites gives our customers a choice and widens our market. You may call this damage control (is that what we call responding to feedback nowadays?) but we think it's just good business.

[ajb]

How did people in your success stories get married 3 months ago if you just started the site several weeks ago?

What is the end user getting getting for $50/month that would justify the expense over free sites (like fdating) that like have tons more real women?  How do the women know to sign up for your site, do you advertise to them?  Can you post pics of your ads or billboards.

Those success stories are from UBA - we'll replace them with SWI ones as soon as they come through

What is the user getting for using Single Women International over a free site? Integrated live video chat. Women that go through a verification process. Communication logs in one place. Security and peace of mind (why do they not use https?!). Arranging of gifts or travel if needed. Videos of the lady. You may not see this as worthwhile enough to pay to use a site, but we think many people will.

As for the women signing up, I'm not really involved in that side of the business so can't give a definitive answer. There is an office in Ukraine that handle lots of the advertising for women. I think there are perhaps some Google Adwords floating about. The site is also available in Russian so they can find the site just like you might - by searching for it.

[jone]

AMAZING that he doesn't know how he collects women on his database.

[ajb]

I'm a developer - I have no need to be involved in that side of the business. Similarly, I couldn't give answers on marketing, strategy, etc. I gave a number of ways that women can sign up, I just can't give a definitive answer.

Either way, I'm not sure exactly what you're insinuating and am unsure as to why you're so negative about what we're trying to do here - even from your first response. What are we doing that is so wrong?

[ML]

AMAZING that he doesn't know how he collects women on his database.

That's a little harsh Jon.

He said:  "As for the women signing up, I'm not really involved in that side of the business so can't give a definitive answer. There is an office in Ukraine that handle lots of the advertising for women. "

I think it's OK for businesses to have dispersion or even segregation of duties . . . pretty common actually.

[SANDRO43]

I'm a developer - I have no need to be involved in that side of the business. Similarly, I couldn't give answers on marketing, strategy, etc. I gave a number of ways that women can sign up, I just can't give a definitive answer.

Either way, I'm not sure exactly what you're insinuating and am unsure as to why you're so negative about what we're trying to do here - even from your first response. What are we doing that is so wrong?

How could you know, since you stated above that you "have no need to be involved in that side of the business" ?

[JayH]

That's a little harsh Jon.

He said:  "As for the women signing up, I'm not really involved in that side of the business so can't give a definitive answer. There is an office in Ukraine that handle lots of the advertising for women. "

I think it's OK for businesses to have dispersion or even segregation of duties . . . pretty common actually.

Ahh ML  -- the "it was someone else" defence !

Given this is a western guy -- a guy who should understand the general scepticism of the whole industry from those in the "know" in the west  -- a key point of being any part of an agency( website)--let alone THE owner --is to trade on credibility.
That credibility should be to a western standard and management ought to be ensuring the standard of acceptability  -- not hand passing it to the "someone" else is responsible.
I cannot stand that type of escape from responsibility  in the west of upper management /ownership in any business. It is the business of that level to know and understand EVERY part of a business.
This is not exactly the size of Rio Tinto  he has a stake in -- and-- he came here promoting.

[ajb]

How could you know, since you stated above that you "have no need to be involved in that side of the business" ?

Huh? The point of asking the question is that I am unsure of why Jone is negative toward this new site. Is it just a general dislike towards people promoting a new service?  Or is it our specific service? If it's the latter, I'd love to know what exactly it is that he (or others) takes issue with.

[ajb]

Ahh ML  -- the "t was someone else" defence !

Given this is a western guy -- a guy who should understand the general scepticism of the whole industry from those in the "know" in the west  -- a key point of being any part of an agency( website)--let alone THE owner --is to trade on credibility.
That credibility should be to a western standard and management ought to be ensuring the standard of acceptability  -- not hand passing it to the "someone" else is responsible.
I cannot stand that type of escape from responsibility  in the west of upper management /ownership in any business. It is the business of that level to know and understand EVERY part of a business.
This is not exactly the size of Rio Tinto  he has a stake in -- and-- he came here promoting.

To clarify, I'm not the owner. I started this topic because I was the one involved in most of the discussions in the post I linked to in my OP.

If there was some sort of allegation I was defending, I would agree with you that "hand waving" is a frustrating and inappropriate response. As it was, all I was doing was answering a question that I perceived to be neutral. Perhaps I missed the inference that all of these women are fake? If that was what was intended then I apologise, but also suspect nothing I say will convince otherwise

[jone]

There is a simple response: 

You are promoting a site that sells access to people that you cannot vouch for.   It is the sin of the amalgamator.   You cannot be so stupid as to not know how agencies in Ukraine get the people that they are bringing to the sites.  Or are you?

You have not differentiated your new site from the PPL origins of your company.  When you were asked where you were getting your women from, you evaded the questions.  No one here believes that you don't know where you are getting your women from.

[ajb]

Please keep the ad hominem to a minimum thanks.

I was asked about how the site advertises to women and I cannot give a definitive answer, whatever your beliefs are. I'll see if the owner wants to comment on this himself.

While we wait though, are you suggesting that the ladies are fake? Or that employees are posing as ladies? Why would a subscription based site do this? How are we different to any other subscription based site?

[ajb]

I've had a response from the owner.

For the places we advertise, the office in Ukraine uses vk.com in addition to http://www.zamuzh-zarubezh.com.ua, a site that the office operates. They've also used Google Adwords in the past but these campaigns have typically not been very successful so they don't make a habit of it.

As for how the ladies were sourced, about 70% of the ladies in the database are registrations that came via the site or via zamuzh. The remaining 30% were supplied by agencies from UBA. These ladies have all been called and interviewed personally by the office staff, we have scans of their passports, etc. It was made clear to all these ladies that they likely wouldn't receive any support from the agency as they do not earn commission for communication. I understand they get a bonus if one of their ladies gets married however.

[wallm]

I suggest that the fact that your company still has a ppl site shows any other arm can't be trusted. I am sure the agencies are paid for each letter by your company. Your business model works that way. I am sure the ladies get a cut from letters  plus from chats with the men. That is slimy. So that makes anything else you open new untrustworthy as well. I am pretty sure the agencies on your ppl site may not even ask the ladies to respond to communication from men. The translators do it themselves. What motive do the agencies have to ensure all this is fair to the men? None. IMO, your company is a scam and should be avoided. Have a nice day.

[msmob]

As AJB is watching ..some feedback

Single Women International is a site we created to address the concerns that many of you brought up in that topic. It has been in the works for around 8-9 months and launched a couple of weeks ago. I thought it fitting to post an update here considering it was this forum that largely encouraged this work to start happening.

Single Women International uses a monthly subscription model where users are free to share contact details and communicate off-site if they wish. How we've presented our subscription model we think is one of the most transparent and most easily understood in the industry. The new site retains many of the great features that Ukraine Brides Agency has (integrated audio/video chat, powerful advanced searches, actual IMBRA compliance), but cuts out the agency middleman for those that are happy with less hand-holding.

We still do believe that a genuine PPL website using carefully vetted reputable agencies can provide something to a particular niche, so for those that want a premium experience (personal 24/7 support, translations, etc.), Ukraine Brides Agency is still offering premium and personalised services. For everyone else, we proudly offer this new service.

We wanted to say a big thanks to those users that did respectfully engage with us, didn't write us off as just another scam and provided invaluable feedback. We'd hope for the same from this topic too We've used your feedback to create what we think is the best international dating site around. So please register, have a look around the site that you helped create and feel free to get back to us with some more feedback!

1/ PPL is a red flag to ANYONE who has been in this game

2/ Is that why the site you promote is NOT secure and comes with a warning?  https://singlewomen.international/

[ajb]

1/ PPL is a red flag to ANYONE who has been in this game

Yes, we understand that PPL has a (justified) terrible reputation. There are many dodgy agencies and ladies and it is difficult to develop systems to minimise the number of scams. This was a large reason the original site (UBA) was set up in the first place; it was determined that there was a gap in the market for a site that did its best to provide as close to a scam-free PPL service as you can get. Of course there is still more we can do in this regard but I think we're a leader here. Good luck finding a site that delivers the service and guarantees we offer at the price we do.

A side-point that isn't talked about all that often is the number of subscription site shills that are active in denigrating the PPL model. It is truly unbelievable the amount of effort and resources that is put in, and they're extremely good at it (unlike the few cringy attempts some of our wayward affiliates have posted on this forum - we had to create a policy around this). I understand this makes good business sense for them, and not all the criticism is unfounded, but I'd caution anyone that believes the subscription sites don't have just as dodgy business practices as many of the PPL sites. To be clear, I'm not saying that anyone here is a shill.

2/ Is that why the site you promote is NOT secure and comes with a warning?  https://singlewomen.international/

Nope, we re-branded and changed the domain name. The new site is http://www.datinginternational.com though it still hasn't really launched for realsies. I'd change the links in the OP but I don't seem to have the option to do so.

[msmob]

Yes, we understand that PPL has a (justified) terrible reputation. There are many dodgy agencies and ladies and it is difficult to develop systems to minimise the number of scams. This was a large reason the original site (UBA) was set up in the first place; it was determined that there was a gap in the market for a site that did its best to provide as close to a scam-free PPL service as you can get. Of course there is still more we can do in this regard but I think we're a leader here. Good luck finding a site that delivers the service and guarantees we offer at the price we do.

For someone asking for feedback - you certainly do not absorb it ... This business model PPL)  is doomed to failure - it isn't trusted - period

Only a mod can edit a post - as after 24 hours ( I think ?) it is 'fixed; ..

I'm just passionate, no skin in the game..... BTW ...

[ajb]

This thread was about asking for feedback on a new, subscription based site (ie. not PPL). I only mentioned PPL because you brought it up.

[msmob]

Actually, I did not bring it up..and hope when you are asking for feedback you might be more attentive..

[ajb]

I meant in my most recent reply, in reference to your point that I was not absorbing feedback on a payment model that the site in question does not use.

Miscommunication aside, I honestly really do appreciate you spending the time to respond. I can certainly see how passionate you are about the issue - it's good to see!

[Jamesukjames]

And why would anyone use your service when F dating  is a free site.  Unless you are setting up a slave auction you have no u s p. 

[ajb]

There are plenty of reasons people pay for services that they could get for free, dating sites included. Maybe they want a higher level of support? Perhaps they wish to avoid the spam that comes with free dating services. It could be they wish to avoid ads (and don't know about ad blockers) or believe that their data is safer if it's not used to monetise the service (facebook et. al.). Maybe they prefer having all their communication (messaging, text and video chat) all in the same place?

All that aside, currently the site is free anyway. So feel free to jump on an answer that question for yourself