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Author Topic: FSW learning of the English Language  (Read 8869 times)

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Offline Chicagoguy

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 08:47:45 PM »
I was surprised when ESL teachers told me if you go long enough without using your native tongue you can lose it. Don't know how often this happens though.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2017, 09:09:46 PM »
I was surprised when ESL teachers told me if you go long enough without using your native tongue you can lose it. Don't know how often this happens though.
I think one can lose only parts of it, not all. It is well-known that prolonged exposure and use enhance mastery of a language, therefore the opposite must also apply.
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Offline ML

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 10:24:13 PM »
I remember back 30 or more years ago that a young man from a family we knew somewhat was jailed in East Berlin for over two years.  He had been trying to smuggle out an East German man in trunk of his car.

He knew very little of the German language when he went; but when he finally got back to USA he was fairly fluent in German having had to converse with guards in that language.

And, in speaking English, he had a very heavy German accent which didn't go away for several years.
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Offline BdHvA

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2017, 12:38:41 PM »
When my wife is with me in America or The Netherlands on the street we speak in English so others understand us. I consider this a common courtesy to others. Her English is American high school level.

When in Kivy we speak on the street privately in English as not to create confusion. Frequently locals will approach me to ask a question and I have standard reply afterwards my wife takes over when we are together. With her son everything is in English all the time.

Her son is studying Chinese in Kivy and the classes are conducted in English.
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2017, 04:17:41 PM »
...Her son is studying Chinese in Kivy and the classes are conducted in English.

Technically, since there's no such thing as 'Chinese' language (as there are numerous dialects however such as Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka), maybe you meant he's studying Chinese culture/history, etc...?
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2017, 06:03:35 PM »
Technically, since there's no such thing as 'Chinese' language (as there are numerous dialects however such as Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka), maybe you meant he's studying Chinese culture/history, etc...?
IINM, Mandarin is what is taught as Chinese abroad, since:
Quote
Mandarin is by far the largest of the seven or ten Chinese dialect groups, with 70 percent of Chinese speakers and a huge area stretching from Yunnan in the southwest to Xinjiang in the northwest and Heilongjiang in the northeast.
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Offline southernX

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2017, 06:20:49 PM »
We have experience with both learning methods

My wife had learnt english at school in russia ,when she arrived in australia she went to college and learnt ESL , lots of emphasis on grammar , she put all her energies into learning it technically correct

She wanted this for her studies and career developement here , and it has been succesfull , her english vocabulary is good and its not often she will get stuck on understanding the usage of a word or its meaning

My stepson when he arrived knew approximatly 50 words of english at best ,we put him to a private tutor for 6 months , with little progress

At school he had the immersion and after about 1 year his english had noticably improved , his vocabulary including slang was good , after 3 years he won dux of his class in several subjects and a scholarship , at university he has also been in the upper levels of his studies

His english is far better than his mums overall in everday usage and understanding and confidence to communicate with others , she however does have better grammar

Either way will give success imo , but it will really depend on the attitude and endeavour of the person learning

At home they speak in both russian/ ukrainian as well as english , i can usually understand their conversation when its not in english , however the reading and writing of it totally escapes me usually

when a non english speaker starts to think in english , thats when you really start to see them bloom in a new enviroment ime

SX
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Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2017, 07:15:35 PM »
I was surprised when ESL teachers told me if you go long enough without using your native tongue you can lose it. Don't know how often this happens though.

The most prominent example I've heard of involved soldiers from the British Army who did not go home after the Armistice of 1918 because they had married (or were going to marry) local women.  By the time the Second World War came along, many of these men had supposedly totally lost their mother tongue because they had never returned home and had no need for English in their everyday life (much as my French, which was excellent and easily understood in France 30 years ago, is now VERY rusty).

Offline BdHvA

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2017, 03:40:11 AM »
Technically, since there's no such thing as 'Chinese' language (as there are numerous dialects however such as Mandarin, Cantonese, Hakka), maybe you meant he's studying Chinese culture/history, etc...?

Nicolas is studying Mandarin, but the teacher from China is 1.) Trying to keep it fun. 2.) Focusing more on vocabulary 3.) Writing and reading the words.

He, the teacher, admitted he has never had as young a student as Nicolas. Most of the material available is geared to an older aged student.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2017, 10:05:25 AM »
We have experience with both learning methods

My wife had learnt english at school in russia ,when she arrived in australia she went to college and learnt ESL , lots of emphasis on grammar , she put all her energies into learning it technically correct

She wanted this for her studies and career developement here , and it has been succesfull , her english vocabulary is good and its not often she will get stuck on understanding the usage of a word or its meaning

My stepson when he arrived knew approximatly 50 words of english at best ,we put him to a private tutor for 6 months , with little progress

At school he had the immersion and after about 1 year his english had noticably improved , his vocabulary including slang was good , after 3 years he won dux of his class in several subjects and a scholarship , at university he has also been in the upper levels of his studies

His english is far better than his mums overall in everday usage and understanding and confidence to communicate with others , she however does have better grammar

Either way will give success imo , but it will really depend on the attitude and endeavour of the person learning

At home they speak in both russian/ ukrainian as well as english , i can usually understand their conversation when its not in english , however the reading and writing of it totally escapes me usually

when a non english speaker starts to think in english , thats when you really start to see them bloom in a new enviroment ime

SX

Well Southern it sounds like from what you have put and others here that the immersion technique seems to be the best way forward. Cal paying $4k a semester seems ludicrous to me, I'm paying about $/£10 a session for my girl to be taught by a non-native speaker locally so pretty cheap really. I get the impression it handy to start of with some sessions so there is a starting point for the immersion so they have a reference point to work from, but long term better to start immersing her in the language more & more, cheaper too ;D 
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2017, 12:52:17 PM »
long term better to start immersing her in the language more & more, cheaper too
A suggestion: tell her to watch TV and listen to radio stations available that broadcast in English. Cheaper, but more fun, too ;).
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Offline SANDRO43

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2017, 12:53:26 PM »
Writing and reading the words.
Painting, rather ;D.
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2017, 05:32:23 AM »
Funny I've found a similar thread on this but a decade old made back in 2007 :D lol. All about some guy paying $250 a month for language lessons for a girl in Kherson so appropriate for me. All the posters except our BillyB & 2tallbill are unknown to me, but are having the same sort of pmt style arguments with each other like we have on here today, lol. Billy & Bill do you remember this one?

Link: http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=5100.0

Don't think the guy ever really stated what the $250 a month consisted of, how many sessions any added cost etc unless he PM'd someone so I think it made it difficult for respondents to get to the bottom of whether he was being ripped off or not. My thought is that unless it was for a load of sessions a week he could well have been.
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Online msmob

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2017, 05:47:02 AM »
All the posters except our BillyB & 2tallbill are unknown to me

That only goes to demonstrate how inattentive you are ... Sadly,  some are no longer with us.  Jack's attitude to your 'expertise' on FSUW would have been interesting to observe.

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Offline BdHvA

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2017, 06:02:24 AM »
Painting, rather ;D.

True, I sat in on class and figured out how many strokes were needed for each 'letter'.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2017, 10:43:37 AM »
That only goes to demonstrate how inattentive you are ... Sadly,  some are no longer with us.  Jack's attitude to your 'expertise' on FSUW would have been interesting to observe.

My God Moby its a bum whipping all the way from you on here isn't it!  :crackwhip:
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Online msmob

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2017, 11:21:52 AM »
My God Moby its a bum whipping all the way from you on here isn't it!  :crackwhip:

What is seriously worrying is you persist in your 'jocularity' and yet keep on posting daft...   

I'm sure the likes of BC, Gator, Rvrwind, and last - but by no means, least - Lily  -  will forgive your powers of retention....

As has been said, before. No-one wants anyone to fail at this endeavour - but I just joined the ranks of too exasperated  to care!
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2017, 01:21:37 PM »
What is seriously worrying is you persist in your 'jocularity' and yet keep on posting daft...   

I'm sure the likes of BC, Gator, Rvrwind, and last - but by no means, least - Lily  -  will forgive your powers of retention....

As has been said, before. No-one wants anyone to fail at this endeavour - but I just joined the ranks of too exasperated  to care!

Yet you still keep responding to my posts ;D

Yes of course I remember Gator & Lily, Gator could be particularly helpful and Lily useful for her knowledge on FSU society. I just overlooked their comments there, the other two you mention I don't think I have come across them.
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Online msmob

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2017, 10:20:09 PM »
Yet you still keep responding to my posts ;D

Is this  confirmation of trolling at work ? ..... As far as I am concerned you are no longer deserving of such attention.

Yes of course I remember Gator & Lily, Gator could be particularly helpful and Lily useful for her knowledge on FSU society. I just overlooked their comments there, the other two you mention I don't think I have come across them.

You tend to overlook lots of comments / advice.  Good luck and adieu.
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Online 2tallbill

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2017, 10:25:42 PM »
Her English will get better and yours will become worse  :P

Ain't that the truth!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 10:30:20 PM by 2tallbill »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2017, 02:54:53 AM »
Is this  confirmation of trolling at work ? ..... As far as I am concerned you are no longer deserving of such attention.

You tend to overlook lots of comments / advice.  Good luck and adieu.

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
 :sad:
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Offline Grumpy

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Re: FSW learning of the English Language
« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2019, 07:45:07 PM »
 American public is concerned with whether immigrants are attempting to assimilate but that Americans do not demand perfect assimilation—meaning that some variance is acceptable. There is even evidence that Americans receive immigrants with an accent more fondly than immigrants without an accent.3 Aside from its influence on natives' attitudes toward immigrants, learning English is correlated with higher educational attainment,4 earnings,5 social assimilation,6 and improved mental health.7
The largest determinant of English language acquisition among immigrants is their age at entry, because there is a critical period in human development when the mind is best able to acquire new languages.8 Even if humans are equally able to learn a language at any age, younger immigrants would still have a greater incentive to learn.9 A 10-year-old immigrant can, all else constant, reasonably expect to use English longer than an 80-year-old immigrant, thus justifying the investment of time and energy to become fluent. This should be particularly pronounced among immigrants who seek to permanently reside in the United States, as proxied by naturalization and marriage with native-born Americans.
English language acquisition among immigrants in the 1980–2010 period is higher than in the 1900–1930 period. Without controls and by just comparing the two cohorts, modern immigrants have better English language skills than those of the past. The results are the same whether their age of arrival differs, whether they are married to native-born Americans or immigrants, or if they come from different regions of the world. Learning English is an important aspect of becoming an American. Whatever complaints American voters have about current immigrants, they typically have English language skills greater than our immigrant ancestors.

http://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/immigrants-learn-english-immigrants-language

I thought it was interesting that current immigrants are learning English faster than those a century ago.
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