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Author Topic: Trench's Questions and Philosophies  (Read 125258 times)

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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2017, 04:50:32 PM »
What 'layer' is that?

Boethius has a certain view of FSU women who use the term "real man". I don't particularly agree with her views on the subject but contained within this rather amusing thread is a discussion and a link to another topic discussing the "real man" issue which I'll link here as well.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21311.msg447957#msg447957

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=21138.msg440511#msg440511

Brass
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 04:58:51 PM by Brasscasing »
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Online LAman

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2017, 04:59:10 PM »
What 'layer' is that?

No I pretty sure a local guy would not be buying her all that clothing stuff. I very much doubt he would be able to afford it. I brought this up with her she seems to think it is different for foreigners. Apparently her friend is going out with a foreigner and he buys her lots of clothes. She expresses that she is a girl and as such likes clothes. I know that because she is hot and young that she may feel that by going out with an older guy that she should get all that stuff coming to her. Personally though I think it has been damaging to our relationship. I think I felt more on relationship terms when in Kiev and I bought her much less. Anyway she seems to refuse to accept that she shouldn't get bought stuff. I never set out to be a sugar daddy lol or believed this to be part of our relationship. I think your right Boethius in that I am going to have to express my misgivings over it and stipulate that she will not be bought any more unless we are married. I just see the relationship not working out otherwise and that is something I would not wish for.

What you have to understand is your 'relationship' maybe in her eyes is she gave you what you wanted , now she gets what she wants....pure and simple.

And old girlfriend once told me about a guy she first met(Ukrainian) in Odesa. He gave her some money to take taxi home from club. Afterward, she learned he walked home that night since he had no money left. She was keen on him because of this. After a few years, baby in tow, he is still out working to help support her and daughter. This is called giving all you can. Although I never gave her money for clothes, I did send some money for English classes, about $150 spread over several months.
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Online msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2017, 10:14:16 PM »
I'm surprised Moby that your wife agreed to that

That you are surprised should be the first of the many misconceptions you need to address.

many know any previous agreements in the divorce courts in the UK may not be respected by the court.

Then they don't know... A financial agreement made in conjunction with separation is rarely set aside if both parties agreed to it and no pressure was brought to bear.

Was it your intention to go for a woman that was quite wealthy as your new partner in the FSU or did it just happen that way?

If my intention was financial gain, I would have married a high flying UK divorcee with a big house or two and asizeable income. ..


Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2017, 07:31:20 AM »
What you have to understand is your 'relationship' maybe in her eyes is she gave you what you wanted , now she gets what she wants....pure and simple.

And old girlfriend once told me about a guy she first met(Ukrainian) in Odesa. He gave her some money to take taxi home from club. Afterward, she learned he walked home that night since he had no money left. She was keen on him because of this. After a few years, baby in tow, he is still out working to help support her and daughter. This is called giving all you can. Although I never gave her money for clothes, I did send some money for English classes, about $150 spread over several months.

Sugar, sugar, Honey, honey :D

You mean no sugar no honey :(

You could well be right LA Man, I'm just going to have to discuss some more about all this shopping lark as I can't see continuing on that basis as a good thing if there is something of that to it. Its more an actual family setting I am after, if some sort of reasonable agreement on what she gets in terms of clothes shopping can be hammered out then I would not necessarily be opposed to that I'm thinking.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2017, 07:46:59 AM »
That you are surprised should be the first of the many misconceptions you need to address.

Then they don't know... A financial agreement made in conjunction with separation is rarely set aside if both parties agreed to it and no pressure was brought to bear.

If my intention was financial gain, I would have married a high flying UK divorcee with a big house or two and asizeable income. ..

So kind of like an out of court divorce agreement. Why did she agree if she could clearly take you for more? Many women these days would not hesitate. If she agreed to less on the basis of what she came into the marriage with then this is very usual these days and she would seem to be a decent person and you were lucky in that at least.

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2017, 07:58:19 AM »
Only a certain "layer" of their society uses words such as "real man".   

She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.

Offline Muzh

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2017, 08:46:05 AM »
 :rolleyes:
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2017, 12:39:32 PM »
She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.


No, you misunderstood me. 

The term "real man" as used here is not a direct translation.  A direct translation of "real man" (in Russian) is "настоящий мужик".  But that term means a man who is heroical, or a man of action, or it's used sarcastically (just a few examples).  It does not correspond with what I am referring to.  The term used by FSUW with WM is discussed on FSUW forums, and its purpose is manipulation.  I'm not suggesting all FSUW, in fact, most are decent and looking for a normal life.  I'm referring to a particular subset.  They also refer to what they can "claw" out of WM.  If you read these terms,  you would not understand them, as they are in slang, often slang that started with criminals, and can't be google translated.  That, I believe, is intentional.

Muzh's eyeroll was because he knows what is going on.  These are general comments, not directed at you, in particular, but to archetypes, as I don't know your relationship.  But I'll use it as an example.  So, don't be offended, just think.

What have you got to offer a girl in her (early?) twenties? (I assume she is under 25?)  I doubt you are David Beckham's doppleganger.  So, your value as a close to middle aged WM is in providing her comfort - material comfort - and security - a life in the West.  She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed.  But they don't have euros/dollars/pounds to spend on her, nor a foreign passport, which is a gateway to a more stable and prosperous life.   She is playing the long game, which is why she seduced you, probably within your first three days together (and likely let you believe it was the other way around).  So, if you have that conversation with her, she will either (a)  Dump you and find another WM who is more "generous"; or (b) Agree and play the long game.


You cannot win trying to adapt to her culture or using what you assume are "appropriate" responses to elicit certain reactions.  The culture is completely foreign to you, and you don't have the cultural cues to succeed at it.  It's a losing game, anyway.  Always be who you are.  You can't have a successful relationship being someone else.  Also, examine what it is you are really looking for.  Be brutally honest with yourself in that assessment, and what it is you offer her.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 03:55:46 PM by Boethius »
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Offline Steamer

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2017, 01:05:51 PM »
She comes from a proletarian area if that is what you mean so you are right in that. It kind of surprised me how she carried on though, like a spoilt LA teenager - i.e from a poor background but acting like all I was providing for her was a day to day occurrence in her life - nice hotels, clothes & beauty product shopping, eats out in many restaurants. She was in my opinion worse attitude than in Kiev on our first meet - kind of brattish.

I think you are right in the other threads of a 'real man' displaying a kind of attitude. I am going to have to put her in her place I think, I know she expects more from a foreign guy than she would get at home as a default regardless of who it is or perhaps how much she is into him but I see no good coming off it if she doesn't get reigned in. The way I see it she now has clothing she somewhat lacked and I'm calling a halt to it. I will make it clear there will be no clothes shopping etc on future meets and only in marriage etc will I be paying for any more.


What is her attitude about working? If she's willing then that would help out the war effort.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2017, 01:16:04 PM »
Sugar, sugar, Honey, honey :D

You mean no sugar no honey :(

No..." No money , no honey" ..

So kind of like an out of court divorce agreement.

No.. it's a "financial separation agreement" - made by couples separating - and can cover post divorce arrangements - Such agreements are readily downloadable from UK legal websites.

Why did she agree if she could clearly take you for more?

You'd have to ask her and likely she'd tell you to mind your own....;) We are on good terms, now. 


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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2017, 01:34:35 PM »

What is her attitude about working? If she's willing then that would help out the war effort.

Good to hear from you on here Steamer I recall you from earlier threads. Well my thoughts exactly I put forward to her a solution whereby we could live in an EU country where we both can speak the language and earn. She would be earning more than in Ukraine and would have not rent costs to pay just pay for the groceries and the rest to spend on herself or save in case she needed to help her parents out in future. This seemed a good solution to me but no she wants the UK. She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men and most go halves/take care of their own spending. She pulled a funny face at that, she hasn't directly said no but I really don't see her taking to the idea. It's a shame as of she was spending her own money she would then realise the worth of it. As it is with mine she really just doesn't seem to care. If I brought her to UK I doubt I would get much help out if her so it would be a mistake. I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2017, 01:58:47 PM »
Good to hear from you on here Steamer I recall you from earlier threads. Well my thoughts exactly I put forward to her a solution whereby we could live in an EU country where we both can speak the language and earn. She would be earning more than in Ukraine and would have not rent costs to pay just pay for the groceries and the rest to spend on herself or save in case she needed to help her parents out in future. This seemed a good solution to me but no she wants the UK. She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men and most go halves/take care of their own spending. She pulled a funny face at that, she hasn't directly said no but I really don't see her taking to the idea. It's a shame as of she was spending her own money she would then realise the worth of it. As it is with mine she really just doesn't seem to care. If I brought her to UK I doubt I would get much help out if her so it would be a mistake. I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

Could be she wants the destination more than the individual.
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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2017, 02:48:49 PM »
I think she might well go about finding a really rich guy to suit her needs. I'm just going to have to play this carefully I think.

If you really think that then you need to dump her and move
on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough
FSUW that aren't broken running around.
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2017, 04:10:44 PM »
She was apparently oblivious to the fact that in the west women earn approximately the same as men


Most WW do not earn the same as men.  But even if they did, she is not a WW, and she does not have the same earning potential as a native.

Quote

and most go halves/take care of their own spending.


But that is not a traditional relationship.  You stated you are traditional.  So, what is it?  Do you want an emancipated woman paying half of everything , or do you want a traditional woman who relies on you?
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2017, 05:31:40 PM »

No..." No money , no honey" ..

No.. it's a "financial separation agreement" - made by couples separating - and can cover post divorce arrangements - Such agreements are readily downloadable from UK legal websites.

You'd have to ask her and likely she'd tell you to mind your own....;) We are on good terms, now. 

The agreements are mostly vacated by courts in the United States today.
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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2017, 05:46:57 PM »


No, you misunderstood me. 

The term "real man" as used here is not a direct translation.  A direct translation of "real man" (in Russian) is "настоящий мужик".  But that term means a man who is heroical, or a man of action, or it's used sarcastically (just a few examples).  It does not correspond with what I am referring to.  The term used by FSUW with WM is discussed on FSUW forums, and its purpose is manipulation.  I'm not suggesting all FSUW, in fact, most are decent and looking for a normal life.  I'm referring to a particular subset.  They also refer to what they can "claw" out of WM.  If you read these terms,  you would not understand them, as they are in slang, often slang that started with criminals, and can't be google translated.  That, I believe, is intentional.

Muzh's eyeroll was because he knows what is going on.  These are general comments, not directed at you, in particular, but to archetypes, as I don't know your relationship.  But I'll use it as an example.  So, don't be offended, just think.

What have you got to offer a girl in her (early?) twenties? (I assume she is under 25?)  I doubt you are David Beckham's doppleganger.  So, your value as a close to middle aged WM is in providing her comfort - material comfort - and security - a life in the West.  She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed.  But they don't have euros/dollars/pounds to spend on her, nor a foreign passport, which is a gateway to a more stable and prosperous life.   She is playing the long game, which is why she seduced you, probably within your first three days together (and likely let you believe it was the other way around).  So, if you have that conversation with her, she will either (a)  Dump you and find another WM who is more "generous"; or (b) Agree and play the long game.


You cannot win trying to adapt to her culture or using what you assume are "appropriate" responses to elicit certain reactions.  The culture is completely foreign to you, and you don't have the cultural cues to succeed at it.  It's a losing game, anyway.  Always be who you are.  You can't have a successful relationship being someone else.  Also, examine what it is you are really looking for.  Be brutally honest with yourself in that assessment, and what it is you offer her.


What about natural chemistry? Could that not happen between an age gap such as this? I'm not saying it is what there is here. In all honesty its looking like in this case going for a guy that can provide for her is a motivating factor. Looks wise I could improve a bit if I were to tone up a bit, but I think you are right, I think there is probably quite a big pool of women in the FSU, particularly Ukraine who are after WM that can provide for them rather than WM for natural attraction. Of course the big issue is that bringing such a girl back to the west what is the chance they may quickly be then looking for an upgrade particularly if they notice men taking an interest with more money, natural attraction, personality to their liking.

I'm not trying to be someone else, or at least I hope not, perhaps she misconstrued me as someone else a man of many means perhaps. I'm really just looking for a girl where there is natural chemistry between us and a desire to have children soon. In terms of what I can offer a girl I would say of course a better lifestyle, more comfortable, but I expect the girl to pitch in a little, it does not have to be full time work just carry her own weight a bit, financially speaking. What I'm not too keen on though is a girl that just wants to hang off me expecting me to spend my money without concern and not get to the family situation I want to be in. So with this girl unless I can sort out some sort of a situation that will suit us both moving forward may be difficult to impossible I fear. 

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2017, 06:05:30 PM »

Most WW do not earn the same as men.  But even if they did, she is not a WW, and she does not have the same earning potential as a native.



But that is not a traditional relationship.  You stated you are traditional.  So, what is it?  Do you want an emancipated woman paying half of everything , or do you want a traditional woman who relies on you?

I would say a part time job where she could spend the money on clothing and stuff she wants to buy would work fine by me and still be in keeping with the traditional aspect as many women in the past did part time work or gender defined work such as secretary, etc. She works at the moment in retail but if she worked in the west she would get paid a better rate in retail. She has a degree in management though and  my thought is that she may be want to come to the west for that - she would earn a lot more doing that and I think would be good at it as she is very organisational & in some way leadership orientated. I don't see the out come to me doing me any good though other than being a stepping stone. If she had a child with me first it would alleviate this fear I think, but brazenly being used as a stepping stone is not something I am going to go along with. 

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2017, 06:27:00 PM »
That's not very "traditional".


You are looking at this from a perspective of "What's in it for me?"  It's not the path to a long lasting relationship, not even one that starts with love (which I don't think is the case, if what you describe is accurate).


If you truly believe this girl may use you as a stepping stone, then she is not the girl for you.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline southernX

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2017, 06:53:41 PM »
If you really think that then you need to dump her and move
on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough
FSUW that aren't broken running around.

trenchcoat , here is the best advice

there is an old saying ''start off as you mean to continue ''

in your case it seems you have not done that and now wish to move the goal posts on her behaviour ?   if you  have spent easily on her from the start with an age gap so big then you have created this issue largely from the get go

i can not see this ending in marriage , or at least a succesful one

SX
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 07:45:38 PM by southernX »
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2017, 07:40:08 PM »
If you really think that then you need to dump her and move on. Don't try to fix broken people, there are plenty enough FSUW that aren't broken running around.

This is what I can't figure out.  Trenchcoat has enumerated one red flag after another, and yet he still seems to be in this post-coital daze of "wow, my girlfriend is a 10!"  How many times have posters here told newbies (and others) to stop thinking with their little heads and use the brain with which they've been supplied?  In every other post he bangs on about how she's using him for shopping and so on - can't he see that this attitude won't change?

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

Offline JayH

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2017, 07:57:50 PM »


I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

Yeah-- how hard can it be for him to create another imaginary "girlfriend" ? :deadhorse: :wallbash:

I have to say-- I am amazed that an inflatable could actually go shopping ! :)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 08:00:59 PM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline ML

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2017, 09:23:45 PM »

I don't care if this girl is hot enough to be Miss Porn Universe - dump her NOW!!!

But he should first provide her contact info to other interested guys here.

And URL of performances to all.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2017, 09:26:07 PM »
She can find plenty of UM her age who are better looking than you, and better in bed. 

Hey . . . that hurts !!
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline Boethius

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2017, 10:44:35 PM »
Well, reality is not always pleasant.

I certainly don't wish Trenchcoat any harm, but what he describes just screams "arrangement".

I know a UW here, met her through the community, who married a WM.  She did so to get residency.  He had an excellent job, and is a good guy.  She got pregnant, and while pregnant, forged his signature on a visa application for her mother (required as one must show support means for visitors from certain countries).  As soon as her mother arrived, she threw her husband out and demanded a divorce.  She demanded he buy her a property, which he did.  She wanted maintenance for their daughter, but no visitation for him.  Of course, she was in Canada, so he has generous visitation, which irks her to no end, even though she didn't want the child, only the income the child brings her, and is an indifferent mother.  Her mother is still here, as she is from the war zone, and has claimed refugee status.  The UW has made that man's life a living hell, and he still does not understand what really happened, that she never had an intention of building a life with him.  He, too, assumed they had "chemistry", probably still does.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 10:46:10 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online msmob

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Re: Trench's Questions and Philosophies
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2017, 11:07:20 PM »
Boethius has a certain view of FSU women who use the term "real man". I don't particularly agree with her views ...

I'd point out that

1/ She is a women

2/ Her heritage is FSU

3/ Boethius LIVED in Ukraine ..

I know who's views I'd rather trust ... ;)

BTW, I don't think the thread is 'silly' ...we have a member who seems hell-bent on throwing money on a 'relationship' that has trainwreck written all over it ... 

The fact that the member is stubborn in defending warnings may actually mean he won't be a poster who disappears when the warnings become reality.

In the meantime, he is better prepared and will learn much, possibly have a good time ( sometimes) while it lasts and he is  - at least - still getting on that plane.

Personally, I'd rather read his story - and other TRs - than some of the political crap ...
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 11:30:08 PM by msmob »

 

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