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Author Topic: Do Girls from Russia and Ukraine date Communists or people on the left?  (Read 4570 times)

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Offline Darth_Budda

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My friend is a english teacher at a local university,,,  even he has a hard time with Ukrainian in the far west,,,
Because they tend to use more polish words..  his words....

I am not going to argue against your point,, although I don't agree with it all...

So my wifes city started off as a border fortress call fortress elizabeth..  the land was taken during the crimean war..
The muslims were forced out and repopulated by russians Ukrainians and germans.. Basically anyone not muslim..

This city is in central ukraine...  so it actually has very little "Ukrainian" History... kinda...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kropyvnytskyi
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Offline Boethius

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As I posted, cities in Ukraine had relatively small ethnically Ukrainian populations in Tsarist times.  But the vast majority of the population, which lived in rural regions, was ethnically what we now recognize as Ukrainian, although at that time, they did not call themselves Ukrainians.

Your friend is mistaken.  I have relatives from Ternopil to the border regions of Western Ukraine, so I travel that region routinely.  You are far more likely to hear Russian, rather than Polish words.  If you are in a Boyko region, you will hear the purest Ukrainian spoken anywhere in Ukraine - that was true in the interwar period, in Soviet times, and now (in fact, Kyinans used to tell me if I wanted to hear "pure" Ukrainian, to go to Ivano Frankivsk).

I have no issue with you disagreeing with me, but I know this region exceptionally well, and I know how they speak, because when I am in Ukraine, I speak Ukrainian.  I know the difference between Ukrainian and Russian, and between Ukrainian and Polish. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 10:39:12 AM by Boethius »
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Online SteveInBoston

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I have never been to east ukraine,, but I know an american that fight for the DPR...He post news you don't see in the west..
The civilian houses destroyed,, schools shelled, the many non combatants killed..


An american who volunteered to fight and kill Ukrainians, and justifies it by talking about destruction.  I guess that makes it all ok.

I have seen the news you speak of.  You can too - Donetsk News Agency and TASS.  One is a separatist government news service and the other is a russian news agency.

In reality, I have seen the civilian houses destroyed, the schools shelled, and the graves of non combatants killed.  In Mariyinka, from DPR shelling. 


It's interesting how you talked about the varying opinions and views in central Ukraine.  We asked a taxi driver in Kyiv about the Motherland monument.  Is Motherland guarding Kyiv from Moscow or is she saluting Moscow?  He starting talking about how it doesn't really matter, that Motherland was built by free masons and that Poroshenko and Putin are free mason buddies and started the conflict to kill commoners.

Everyone has a viewpoint.  It is cool that people in central Ukraine are now free to share their opinions without fear of the state police knocking on their door, like in the good old days.


Offline Darth_Budda

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Saturday Night on the Avdeevka Front 18/05/2019 (ENG&RUS SUBS)

Russell Bentley

http://tinyurl.com/y2ne6npc
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 10:52:10 AM by AnonMod »
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Caleb Maupin

Online BillyB

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How many people die everyday under capitalism because of hunger, or lack of medical care?
Seriously,,,,  how many people died so that america could bring capitalism to Iraq and Libya?


Libya had their Arab Spring civil war. Obama and Europe help speed up the process to end the civil war. Although I'm glad Ghadafi is gone and not a fan of the war, the West probably saved lives although that was not their main priority. Syria has less oil and had less support. The prolonged civil war there has a high death toll.

Saddam Insane took power in a violent coup. After that he liquidated his political opponents. He then took Iraq into an 8 year war with Iran. After the war he killed and mass buried Iraqis from regions that did not support his war. Two years after the war with Iran, he went to war against Kuwait. The world made the mistake of allowing him to remain in power. After surrendering to the coalition to keep power, he then liquidated draft dodgers, religious and political opponents so nobody gets second thoughts he's weak and vulnerable after losing the war. My friend from Iraq loved Bush when he removed Saddam from power because he saved lives.
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Online msmob

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My friend is a english teacher at a local university,,,  even he has a hard time with Ukrainian in the far west,,,
Because they tend to use more polish words..  his words....

I am not going to argue against your point,, although I don't agree with it all...

Then you are 'unwise'..


So my wifes city started off as a border fortress call fortress elizabeth..  the land was taken during the crimean war..
The muslims were forced out and repopulated by russians Ukrainians and germans.. Basically anyone not muslim..

This city is in central ukraine...  so it actually has very little "Ukrainian" History... kinda...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kropyvnytskyi

Not many Ukrainian cities, do ..  that was due to serial re-occupations by Moscow

Interesting wiki..note the near decimation of the Jews
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Offline Darth_Budda

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Like I said... This is my.understanding of ukraine...

I am not mistaken about any of it....

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Caleb Maupin

Offline Darth_Budda

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Maybe I have had a rare experience with all of this.
 I don't really think I'm the typical guy that you see on sites like this. I think I am younger and more poor than most people on this place.  I'm just a poor construction worker from a small village in upstate New York. I was lucky and found my second half..Made friends I still talk too...

Like what I say or not... But I think I have the experience to discuss these things with a degree of knowledge...  but only from my point of view...
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Caleb Maupin

Offline Boethius

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Like I said... This is my.understanding of ukraine...

I am not mistaken about any of it....

Your understanding is based on a small slice of people you interacted with. 

I don't typically speak with people who speak surzhik.  Most of the people I know in Kyiv speak only Russian, not Ukrainian, and definitely don't use surzhik.  None were ever peasants (which is the demographic that uses surzhik - peasants who escaped villages to come to the city).  Even though most of them to this day, cannot speak Ukrainian, and those that do, do not use Ukrainian in their daily lives, they have no issues with the language.  They are mostly indifferent.  Incidentally, surzhik has no grammatical rules.  It is not taught in schools because it's not a language.  The choices in Ukraine are Ukrainian language schools, or Russian language schools.


In Western Ukraine, you typically will not hear Russian, unless Russian is used by a tourist.  Most Western Ukrainians can speak Russian, because it was imposed on them.  They choose to speak their native tongue now.

If you read the Razumkov Centre, which does polling on social issues across Ukraine, your perception of Ukraine would be a decided minority.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 09:07:51 AM by Boethius »
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Offline krimster2

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I know Russel Bentley, we've met, he was really enjoying his 5 minutes of fame....
in "real life" the guy is an "ex-con" homeless dewd who wouldn't be able to pass a basic 6th grade literacy test ....
you didn't mention Mark Paslawsky, any reason?


Offline Darth_Budda

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No clue who he is...


Russel is a ex con.  Selling marijuana... With is now legal many places... Unless I am wrong...

It is a Interesting discussion. 
More people are afraid to say what they really think... Because of the anti communist or russian issues in Ukraine.



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Caleb Maupin

Offline Boethius

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I'm not certain there is an anti communist attitude in Ukraine.  Polls suggest between 65% and 75% of Ukrainians would like to return to the USSR, with the highest support in Western Ukraine (which generally, is poorer).


Anti Russian attitudes don't really exist in most of Ukraine.  Ask Russians who have moved to Kyiv how "anti Russian" it is.  Or the millions who have resettled throughout Ukraine from Donbas.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online msmob

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I am not mistaken about any of it....

You'll forgive me, but based on some of your 'assertions'  - based on some interesting historical assumptions - I beg to differ ;) 
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Offline krimster2

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"No clue who he is... "

Mark Paslawsky was an American volunteer on the Ukrainian side who was KIA maybe 2 years back...

Offline Darth_Budda

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"No clue who he is... "

Mark Paslawsky was an American volunteer on the Ukrainian side who was KIA maybe 2 years back...

I.remember that dude...   It is war...  a lot of people were killed on.both sides.... He knew his chances...

I guess he should not of joined up....

Bombs can't put Ukraine together...  only political conversation..
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Online msmob

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Bombs ..or threats of them have split off parts of Ukraine.. Might was used to overcome right and Politicians that disagreed were removed ...in public gaze... and turned up dead the next day...

That is the Ukraine you need to understand((

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Ivanovych_Rybak?wprov=sfla1

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Offline Darth_Budda

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Ukraine is a country run by oligarchs for oligarchs,,,  Each with their own private militia...

The USA and NuLand was behind the Neo-Nazi backed uprising against the legitimate government of Ukraine..

When the  legitimate government of Ukraine fell....  The east and crimea also had the right of self determination... 

People say look at the polls in Ukraine,,,  Like the same type of poles that said trump would loose?


Report from Ukrainian media on the illegal use of army in the Donbass translated: "The Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass are employed illegally – this was the conclusion reached by experts from the office of the Ukrainian Prosecutor General. According to Oleg Zhivotov, the lawyer of the former head of the [arrested – AF] General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Vladimir Zamany, these results of their examination are contained in the report on suspicions against his client.
The experts’ conclusion are shocking and most importantly, they cannot be undone. It now turns out that everyone who fought in the Donbass violated the Constitution of Ukraine. This threatens any Ukrainian soldier, national guard, volunteer. True, the Geneva Convention may come to their aid – after all, they were under oath and acted on orders. But this convention does not protect Petro Poroshenko, supreme commander, the convention does not protect."

http://www.newcoldwar.org/shocking-analysis-from-the-prosecutor-general-office-poroshenko-and-all-who-fought-there-will-answer-for-donbass/?fbclid=IwAR17IvwbNhB-EaLNZCOxwaMTyxVTnfoPvmgeMaHhXcQjnlRgLd3bAfPWopo

http://www.rt.com/news/460488-ukraine-nazi-collaborator-monument/?fbclid=IwAR03GCMt1R_VrElJqphuCxQtYBzzvkpqdAPCRo2iTFeEbZe6Ol6aih2e_cU

Western liberals may praise a Chinese tank man of 1989 but completely ignore how our Ukrainian civil war developed exactly 5 years ago. A government, installed in Kiev via coup, has sent the army to suppress the rioting miners of Donbass who didn’t recognize the coup. Unarmed people managed to stop the army – soldiers first refused to shoot.
Then the pro-US coup government recruited neo-Nazi paramilitary battalions, released and armed criminals from jails, cleansed most of the former army personnel. And only after that the full scale war started in May 2014.
The main reason for the coup and lasting civil war was the issue of free trade agreement with the EU which the former government refused to sign. That’s how western imperialism works.

^^^^^^
Copy pasted words from a comrade in central Ukraine,, he is also a proud IWW member...

« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 07:04:31 AM by Darth_Budda »
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Caleb Maupin

Online msmob

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You are on the wrong forum ..if you think Yanokovych  govt was 'legit'..

There is a lot still wrong... But BOY are you being selective

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Offline Darth_Budda

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A lot of americans hate trump,,,   But you don't see us trying to overthrow the government with Russian money delivered directly from the ambassador to the usa.. ""Nuland cookies""

You don't see nazi CIA trained snipers killing everyone to increase tensions to the breaking point...

In a MF Democracy,,,  you wait and vote the bastard out.....

What do you think would happen in the USA if people tried to take over the government?

The police would murder everyone...
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Online msmob

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Like I said ..

You are on the wrong forum to post your one-sided Bollox

mad and bad as 'trampu' will be proven, he has not overseen mass misappropriation of public funds to line his own pocket and not over seen the murder of citizens who protested.
Yanu' 'had to be spirited away by Kremlin GRU to avoid trial is the ONLY reason you can still suggest he was 'hard done by'.

No one is saying the US and EU weren't players...

No one carved up Ukraine like Yanu's eldest son..

Can you invisage 'Trampu's polical supporters disowning him in the way the Party of Regions did Yanu'....?

If you want to play amateur hour ...'who's to blame for trying to screw up Ukraine.. you need to cast your net east as well as west and within.







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Online BillyB

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The USA and NuLand was behind the Neo-Nazi backed uprising against the legitimate government of Ukraine..


America and Russia always try to influence other nations. That's the way big nations roll since the beginning of big nations. Doing nothing while your enemies turn your friends into your enemies will speed up your extinction. I've been to West Ukraine many times where the Neo Nazis are supposed to congregate. I'm a minority and never felt discrimination or hostility. There's a bunch of black people from Africa going to colleges in West Ukraine. They walk around freely and don't look scared.

When the  legitimate government of Ukraine fell....


The government didn't fall and wasn't taken over. There were protests. President Yanukovych called for new elections and the next day he fled the country for Russia. The Rada(parliament) stayed in power, held new elections and a new president was elected.

The east and crimea also had the right of self determination... 


Ukraine has a Constitution and Article 73 says that if there is to be a change in borders, there must be an all Ukrainian referendum. If Crimea wanted to secede from Ukraine which changes the nation's borders, the vote must be held by all Ukrainians. The Crimean vote was illegal.
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Offline Darth_Budda

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according to Article 17 of the Constitution of Ukraine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot be involved in any conflict within the country.

so?  yea...
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Caleb Maupin

Online msmob

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according to Article 17 of the Constitution of Ukraine, the Armed Forces of Ukraine cannot be involved in any conflict within the country.

so?  yea...

According to the Budapest Memorandum - Ukraine gave up it's nukes and was supposed to be defended by nations - including Russia .. not have her agreed territory reduced by  Kremlin military personnel on the leased bases on Crimea ..

So.. if you are going to post bollox, revisionist 'history' - be prepared to get a god hosing down..

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Offline GQBlues

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Ukraine is a country run by oligarchs for oligarchs,,,  Each with their own private militia...
The USA and NuLand was behind the Neo-Nazi backed uprising against the legitimate government of Ukraine..
When the  legitimate government of Ukraine fell....  The east and crimea also had the right of self determination...
 

Damned Straight!

Maidan was a well-orchestrated, brutal attack against a democratically, heavily internationally monitored, legitimately elected government simply because it went against the bidding of the US.

This is what the US cable transmitted via Embassy regarding what Poroshenko, a foreign minister at the time, reported back in 2010. 4 years before Maidan.

Quote
5. (C) Poroshenko praised the work of international election observers and stressed that he had made a point of meeting with them during the election campaign.  He said Tymoshenko later criticized him privately for his embrace of the observers, saying that it had undercut her allegations of fraud. Poroshenko disagreed. Ukraine, he insisted, should be proud of the fact that so many observers had positive reports on the election; it reflected well on Ukraine. Poroshenko concurred with the Ambassador's assessment of the constructive role that ODIHR's Ambassador Heidi Tagliavini had played. This is not 2004....
--------------------
6. (C) Noting his prominent role in the Orange camp in 2004, Poroshenko said that Yanukovych's election this year was consistent with the fundamental goals of the Orange Revolution: free and transparent elections and the peaceful transition of power.

http://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/10KYIV246_a.html

Poor ol' Petro. Unfortunately he turned out not to be the perfect US Stooge as he never got full US support when war broke out from the Obama administration. Petro's major flaw was he was prone to be an idealist for America's palete. So the US left him out to dry.

http://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE129520_a.html

In addition to what you cited above...add Albright's release of Tymoshenko from prison, to the appointment of US-citizen Natalie Jaresko as Ukraine's Ministry of Finance, to the appointment of Hunter Biden to lead Burisma, and the implementation ML Strategies as DC' lobbyist for Ukraine and appointments of personnel directly connected to both Biden and John Kerry...

http://time.com/2964493/ukraine-joe-biden-son-hunter-burisma/

http://www.mintz.com/newsletter/2015/Advisories/4639-0215-DC-MLS/index.html

USA's hands are more than all over this coup. That was a blatant, major global *butt-phuck* with thousands of civilian casualties.
It's actually laughable how there's a faux media frenzy about foreign entities meddling in our mythical 'democratic' elections.

Got DNC?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 09:20:09 AM by GQBlues »
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Online msmob

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GQB

I missed when the Americans ordered citizens to be killed, robbed the nation's coffers,  sent tough guys to beat up and kill journalists ?

sure Biden had his son lined up to  divvy up the Gas in E.Ukraine ... but to suggest this is 'ALL' a US fubar is more than sl. disingenuous

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