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Author Topic: Second trip to Kharkov  (Read 11358 times)

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Offline osis

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2017, 03:27:01 AM »
Osis,

We can learn a lot from bad experiences. I know for me, I will not use an introduction service again. I think we will have more success using websites. I hope you have better luck on your next trip!


Precisely.As i posted previously that's my next move.Thanks,good luck to you too.

Offline osis

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2017, 03:37:13 AM »

Osis, I've never used a pay to see girl service, but I know what it's like to return from the FSU with something not working out but knowing what not to do next time. I hope next time will go better for you.


That's the point of experiences,to get better and better.Thanks

Offline Mila

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2017, 06:38:05 AM »
Hello there, I apologize that you haven't enjoyed your trip as much as you would like to. I did my best to provide a good service as well as my husband made sure you were on time and safe while driving around. I think we had miscommunication as for taxi fair, as you thought it would be for free. I think, $20 was reasonable, as we drove to some places even out of the city, plus my husband was waiting, and all taxi drivers charge for waiting time.


As for the lady, you knew she wasn't fluent and you still wanted to see her for a second date. Initially you could only pick those ladies who are fluent. All people are different, some are social and some are not very much, some are open and for some it takes time to open up.


We all learn from mistakes and the most important is not to blame somebody, but find the answer inside of you. Life is wonderful and for every person there is a perfect match, you just have to believe in it and never give up. Good luck!

Offline ML

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #53 on: November 16, 2017, 09:14:51 AM »
Mila, please address specifically the time when you and your husband charged Osis $20 for a 5 block trip with no waiting time.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #54 on: November 16, 2017, 09:54:47 AM »
GQ, you remind me of my first trip to Russia, to SP. I stayed next to Dostoyevskaya metro and across from Vladimirskaya Church. I visited the church most days to say a prayer for my health and goodwill( beg of trip a disaster). I would donate money and light a candle. When I came outside there was a babushka sitting on curb holding a metal cup out, I put some coins inside and walked away. Next day I went inside, said a prayer, came outside saw the babushka put money in cup and next to her was another, put coins in her cup. Next day, I came walking up to church and noticed 4 babushkas sitting on curb and thought to myself I am going to need lots of coins. ))) So after prayers, came outside and put coins in all 4 cups( less in each cup, not enough coins). Next day....... walked up to church and saw a lineup of babushkas on curb the entire length of church!!!!!!


Hah! Had that been true (well of course it is Batman!), management 101 LAMan. I would've spoken with babushka #1 and tell her I have 500 rubles, 100 of it is hers and the remaining 400 needs to be evenly split between the rest. She needs to take the initiative and implement these simple rules, 1) Let everyone understands that the more of them show-up, the less their equal share becomes, 2) each one is responsible to 'clean' the space they occupied along the church grounds, 3) the program stops at ANY sign of dissent.


Bwalla!
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #55 on: November 16, 2017, 10:03:33 AM »
...I think we had miscommunication as for taxi fair, as you thought it would be for free. I think, $20 was reasonable, as we drove to some places even out of the city, plus my husband was waiting, and all taxi drivers charge for waiting time. ...


Mila-


It isn't so much the rate but likely more about disclosure. Taxis in the US have meters so the customer can see the charges. UBER/Lyft discloses their fees. Limo services do, too. All prior and during the service being rendered.


If you actually have this type of disclosure, then the responsibility falls on the customer. if you 'offer' a 'taxi service', do so by also telling the customer what the terms are or will be. Different people see 'fee charges' subjectively. Some may see it as unreasonable, excessive, fair, or even cheap...but each is entitled for their own assessment prior. Ultimately the customer reserves the right of first refusal. It is NOT up to YOU to decide what is reasonable and what is not.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 11:42:56 AM by GQBlues »
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2017, 10:22:16 AM »


Hello Mila, posting the cost of your service on your website is a good thing. Posting taxi rates would be another good thing. It's okay to charge more than the average taxi as long as price is disclosed. Many customers think of you more as a friend rather than a person who is working for them so offering a taxi without disclosing there's a cost may be seen as something that is free. Posting rates on your site will give customers notice any ride you offer isn't free and they would have no right to post a bad review. At a minimum notify customers any service outside the package they purchased will incur extra costs.
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2017, 11:48:44 AM »
GQ, I love your avatar. I have always been a Don Johnson fan. When I was a little kid, my Sister and I would always watch Miami Vice on Friday Nights. Crockett and Tubbs was THE SHIT man!! LOVE Don Johnson!!


Don Johnson?!? Dunno, man. Melanie Griffith was never on my radar. i had always mistaken Don Johnson from Kurt Russel. It must be because of the character Kurt played on the movie 'Tequila Sunrise'.
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #58 on: November 16, 2017, 01:12:30 PM »
I think we had miscommunication as for taxi fair, as you thought it would be for free. I think, $20 was reasonable, as we drove to some places even out of the city, plus my husband was waiting, and all taxi drivers charge for waiting time.

I think you are justifying a bad decision, as osis was not the only poster to make this complaint.  Even if justified, it leaves a bad taste in the client's mouth, believing he was hoodwinked.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 11:07:50 AM by Boethius »
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Offline osis

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2017, 02:56:28 AM »
I think we had miscommunication as for taxi fair, as you thought it would be for free. I think, $20 was reasonable, as we drove to some places even out of the city, plus my husband was waiting, and all taxi drivers charge for waiting time.


I understand that such services will be overpriced from agencies to make a little extra $.The problem wasn't about the cost(although i did mind with lady5), that's why i used this service 6 times.It was for not informing me.

Offline osis

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2017, 03:20:07 AM »

As for the lady, you knew she wasn't fluent and you still wanted to see her for a second date. Initially you could only pick those ladies who are fluent. All people are different, some are social and some are not very much, some are open and for some it takes time to open up.


I didn't had problem with her english level.She did,even though i explained to her repeatedly i didn't care about that.I know from experience and even  from what i read on this forum that if a woman is interested in you,there is no language barrier.
As for the lady,i believe that a 32 y.o. woman should have settled her mind and be ready to deal with a situation like that,before joining an INTERNATIONAL marriage agency.

Offline osis

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2017, 03:21:44 AM »
Mila, please address specifically the time when you and your husband charged Osis $20 for a 5 block trip with no waiting time.
Actually it was mhr7.

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2017, 08:10:29 AM »
I didn't had problem with her english level.She did,even though i explained to her repeatedly i didn't care about that.I know from experience and even  from what i read on this forum that if a woman is interested in you,there is no language barrier. As for the lady,i believe that a 32 y.o. woman should have settled her mind and be ready to deal with a situation like that,before joining an INTERNATIONAL marriage agency.

I'm not sure its meant that there is 'literally' no language barrier, more that if a girl is into you, you can tell just by her eye contact, quick successive eye movement and vibe of excitement. Theoretically you would be happy just to be in each others company drinking wine, holding hands, looking at each other, cuddling perhaps. Limited English from her & use of google translate app on your phone (or similar) should be enough to get you by, it has with me. However, misunderstandings and cultural misunderstandings can arise. For example the last girl I was with shortly after meeting said to me, 'we spend this (first) week together then you come live with me?' I said, 'here in Ukraine?' :o she replied 'yes'. I thought to myself 'boy this girl moves fast, lol'. I told her, 'I can't I don't know Ukrainian and how would I find work' - I had no means of independent income of note at the time and only a brief weekend English teacher training cert. She on essentially picking up on 'no' from me looked somewhat upset and disappointed. I felt a little bad as she seemed to have this expectation which seemed preemptive and unexpected, even unrealistic to me who had just not long ago got off the plane and met her for real (outside of Skype).

I told her 'maybe when we got to know each other more' and she seemed to cheer up on hearing this. It later transpired that she wanted to move in with me in the UK and that is what she must of meant since she specifically stated to me later and repeatedly that she did not want to live with me in Ukraine as she could see no point in this as the economy was bad and what would I do (my original point precisely, lol). So she must off got muddled originally when she was speaking English to me as her English level was was not good at the time - she improved over time, I gave her small amount of money for some English lessons though I really do think she learnt by far the most by Skyping and being with me, i.e immersion. I noted that she tended to get a lot less rusty after being with me a while (since all Ukrainians learn at least basic level English in School). It sounds like lady 1 perhaps was a similar level of English to this girl I was with Osis.

Cynically speaking, stories have been abound over the years of girls faking poor level of English in order to have the terp present - have more money presumably later shared out. I'm not saying this is the case here, who knows, my story highlights how it can be useful to have a terp handy at least initially to avoid these early misunderstandings. Personally like I said before I would have thrown in my lot in a second meet - if only to get a better idea if she really was genuinely into me and it seemed all above board. From what I have seen Russian/Ukrainian girls tend to react badly to disagreements and this seems to scupper many a foreign relationship. It certainly seems to be the case of avoiding disagreements at all costs unless its really is something you feel strongly about and can't budge from or you may not make much progress with any RW.

Osis, it may be worth considering if this girl might be willing to message/skype with you (if Mila would be willing to forward contact details) if she really did seem into you. Again she might be unwilling but it might be worth seeing if she is willing. In general contacting women off websites yourself while its what most of us do its also not necessarily an easy ride - you have to work through what she says messaging you, Skype, etc and understand where the pitfalls are. I found as a Newbie that I was rather in the dark on a lot off this, it comes as the months pass and mistakes are made, particularly when meeting these girls but initially don't expect it to be plain sailing unless you are already good at reading between the lines and being pretty astute. I've managed to avoid all the obvious scammers and had a lot of fun but only now do I think I am getting to a point where I have a better idea of how to go about FSU dating.
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Offline kynrazor

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2017, 10:06:18 AM »
I'm not sure its meant that there is 'literally' no language barrier, more that if a girl is into you, you can tell just by her eye contact, quick successive eye movement and vibe of excitement. Theoretically you would be happy just to be in each others company drinking wine, holding hands, looking at each other, cuddling perhaps. Limited English from her & use of google translate app on your phone (or similar) should be enough to get you by, it has with me.

All throughout my past dating experiences, I have found dating girls with significant language barriers a terribly COLOSSAL waste of time. Misunderstandings aside, getting to know each others' interests, religiosity, aspirations, worldviews, preferences and all other quirks,  will all be considerably more difficult (even with google translate) and delay the relationship-building process by at least almost half a year.

What's the point of putting in the time and effort to improve the girls' english and having a hand in shaping her into the girl of your dreams  :rolleyes: when it could still end up not working out in the end  :'( whilst there could be better, already english-educated intellectual lasses out there among the millions of FSU lasses?  :-\ Next!

I'll rather spend that amount of time writing to thousands of potential suitors till I find the diamond among the rough diamonds.  8) Arguably I would have missed out on hundreds of wife-material lasses but it allows me to cut my losses early and not get too invested early on before I even contemplate a visit to see her. Just my personal opinion backed by the fact that it's shown quite promising results in my quest so far.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 10:07:53 AM by kynrazor »
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2017, 10:28:34 AM »
All throughout my past dating experiences, I have found dating girls with significant language barriers a terribly COLOSSAL waste of time. Misunderstandings aside, getting to know each others' interests, religiosity, aspirations, worldviews, preferences and all other quirks,  will all be considerably more difficult (even with google translate) and delay the relationship-building process by at least almost half a year.

What's the point of putting in the time and effort to improve the girls' english and having a hand in shaping her into the girl of your dreams  :rolleyes: when it could still end up not working out in the end  :'( whilst there could be better, already english-educated intellectual lasses out there among the millions of FSU lasses?  :-\ Next!

I'll rather spend that amount of time writing to thousands of potential suitors till I find the diamond among the rough diamonds.  8) Arguably I would have missed out on hundreds of wife-material lasses but it allows me to cut my losses early and not get too invested early on before I even contemplate a visit to see her. Just my personal opinion backed by the fact that it's shown quite promising results in my quest so far.

Totally agree!
every ship can be a minesweeper at least once...

Offline Boethius

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2017, 11:10:11 AM »
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22277.msg471633#msg471633


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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #66 on: November 17, 2017, 12:19:23 PM »
All throughout my past dating experiences, I have found dating girls with significant language barriers a terribly COLOSSAL waste of time. Misunderstandings aside, getting to know each others' interests, religiosity, aspirations, worldviews, preferences and all other quirks,  will all be considerably more difficult (even with google translate) and delay the relationship-building process by at least almost half a year.
 

I may be disproving your point. I am about to visit a girl with 'basic' English skills. Very little video and a ton of viber messaging. Her English is veeeeeery bad but her 'looks' are exxxxxotic!!

I think it all depends on the interest in each other to put in time to understand each other. I must say, the girl translates all messages. All messages between us are in English and I keep forgetting she cannot speak English.

My friend married a lady with zero English skills and heavy accent. They were so into each other communication was not a problem with the patience they showed each other. Married for 6 years now. So it is possible, if.....
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:21:10 PM by LAman »
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #67 on: November 17, 2017, 12:29:53 PM »
All throughout my past dating experiences, I have found dating girls with significant language barriers a terribly COLOSSAL waste of time. Misunderstandings aside, getting to know each others' interests, religiosity, aspirations, worldviews, preferences and all other quirks,  will all be considerably more difficult (even with google translate) and delay the relationship-building process by at least almost half a year.

What's the point of putting in the time and effort to improve the girls' english and having a hand in shaping her into the girl of your dreams  :rolleyes: when it could still end up not working out in the end  :'( whilst there could be better, already english-educated intellectual lasses out there among the millions of FSU lasses?  :-\ Next!

I'll rather spend that amount of time writing to thousands of potential suitors till I find the diamond among the rough diamonds.  8) Arguably I would have missed out on hundreds of wife-material lasses but it allows me to cut my losses early and not get too invested early on before I even contemplate a visit to see her. Just my personal opinion backed by the fact that it's shown quite promising results in my quest so far.

True to a point the first girl I met had near perfect English and it was a lot easier to understand her, unfortunately the attraction was almost but ultimately not quite there. The last girl was affectionate and there seemed to be some attraction but her lack of English at first was a huge barrier, it was much better towards the end of the first meeting and as the second meeting got on. Time over again I wouldn't have bothered paying anything for English lessons, I would tell her to converse with me more on Skype over the weeks and only after a few months had it not improved much would have paid for lessons. Girls that know English are normally more up for it in terms of getting with a foreigner and it makes the relationship easier at the beginning, yet there are some forum members on here that have got with girls that didn't speak good English and things went well in the end. Personally I would prefer good English but ahead of that I would want to see natural chemistry through quick successive eye movement and vibe of excitement as my main priority. If we are into each other then we can work through other issues as long as she is willing.

There is a thing though that it is more difficult to get closer/more intimate with a girl that does not know English well and tell her your desires and yes that is a real early impediment to a relationship you can do without I found.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:40:20 PM by Trenchcoat »
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #68 on: November 17, 2017, 12:36:52 PM »
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22277.msg471633#msg471633


When a woman makes any excuse, it is just that.  An excuse.  It means she is not interested.

You mean lady 1, well Osis said she agreed to a second meet initially but only if terp was present as though she had a level of English she was not confident with it. Only after Osis pushed a bit too hard for her did she back out - I think the compromise was a dinner with terp then they go on alone but this did not suit. So I assume she was interested as she originally accepted without excuses but perhaps this pushing stressed her out. Unless it was just a money generating exercise, perhaps Osis might like to give us his thoughts on whether he thought it was genuine attraction from the female/all above board?
No Deal is Ideal :)

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #69 on: November 17, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
Hi,


I think it was miscommunication, as if my client doesn't want to use my husband's services of a driver he could tell me about that. We are all mature and grown up people and we can communicate. Or at least, my client can ask me how much will it cost? But no one asked any questions. That's why I created matchmaking  packages for people to avoid miscommunication.


As for the lady, I think if a man knows how to interest a lady she will go one a date with him without interpreter even with poor English. I introduce people, but I am not magic and can't make it work for everybody. I did my best, but unfortunately, not everything depends on me. I wish people the best and I hope you can find your destiny.




Offline osis

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2017, 01:24:17 PM »
You mean lady 1, well Osis said she agreed to a second meet initially but only if terp was present as though she had a level of English she was not confident with it. Only after Osis pushed a bit too hard for her did she back out - I think the compromise was a dinner with terp then they go on alone but this did not suit. So I assume she was interested as she originally accepted without excuses but perhaps this pushing stressed her out. Unless it was just a money generating exercise, perhaps Osis might like to give us his thoughts on whether he thought it was genuine attraction from the female/all above board?
It was our 3rd date and i was asking for a 4th.As for the attraction there wasn't any psysical contact or anything like that but we liked each other(i think).

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2017, 06:15:43 PM »
It was our 3rd date and i was asking for a 4th.As for the attraction there wasn't any psysical contact or anything like that but we liked each other(i think).

Oh I see, that is making more sense now. Personally if there was no physical contact such as holding hands/arms, even across a table or arm around her, etc then it doesn't look like good signs to me. The first girl I dated for a few days gave me no meaningful physical contact which essentially meant that she was not into me. Again nice personality and we got on well and I think she liked me me in as a person but attraction wise. She smiled a lot when I looked at her and I think this made it difficult for me to ascertain whether she might be into me or just liked being with me.

I can see why you might ask interpreter not to be there so as to be less formal. I would have pressed forward on the issue with her if she was into me before it got to third date, probably on the second one, hold out my hand to see if she would take it, etc and move on from there. If she is or makes out she is too shy/modest then I too would move on. To me I would be concerned that this situation might be a case of a girl leading a guy on - presumably you were paying for all the food & all. A girl that was interested should really show some form of wishing to be affectionate and/or an agency terp some subtle way of bringing things to afore. You said after all that Mila thought she like you, as a 'friend' and as an agency I would have thought suggesting a bit more togetherness would have been appropriate as after all that is what an agency is 'supposed' to be for helping promising couples get together.

Knowing this that you have told me the picture building up is one where I think I would have great reservations using Mila's services in matchmaking.
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2017, 06:56:59 PM »
We are all mature and grown up people and we can communicate. Or at least, my client can ask me how much will it cost? But no one asked any questions.



Not all people communicate the same way. I run a business and when I tell people I can do something for them, I make it clear the costs and what they get before doing it for them.


This one incident got you negative reviews. It can happen again over what you call a misunderstanding. It may have cost you one customer which is much more the cost of the taxi ride. People have given you good reviews and it brought you more business. Figure out how to increase the good reviews and lower the amount of bad reviews. What happened here is easily avoidable.
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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2017, 10:25:48 PM »
Physical contact is over-rated imo, especially for the first date. I don't know about Trench but I would rather spend more time with shy women than attention-seeking or sexually loose women (a.k.a sluts).

If you want physical contact/intimacy, kisses, hugs, hold arm, or something more, you're the man so you're supposed to be the one making the moves, making it appear to the girl as if "oh it just happened". Worst case you get pushed off and lose a good but slow to open up woman  :popcorn:. What more is there to lose?
Sincerely,
Kyn

Online msmob

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Re: Second trip to Kharkov
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2017, 02:58:26 AM »
OMG, 'dating advice' from Trench again ((

WARNING, WARNING - please take the 'advice' quoted below with a ( large) pinch of salt ! ;)



Oh I see, that is making more sense now. Personally if there was no physical contact such as holding hands/arms, even across a table or arm around her, etc then it doesn't look like good signs to me. The first girl I dated for a few days gave me no meaningful physical contact which essentially meant that she was not into me. Again nice personality and we got on well and I think she liked me me in as a person but attraction wise. She smiled a lot when I looked at her and I think this made it difficult for me to ascertain whether she might be into me or just liked being with me.

I can see why you might ask interpreter not to be there so as to be less formal. I would have pressed forward on the issue with her if she was into me before it got to third date, probably on the second one, hold out my hand to see if she would take it, etc and move on from there. If she is or makes out she is too shy/modest then I too would move on. To me I would be concerned that this situation might be a case of a girl leading a guy on - presumably you were paying for all the food & all. A girl that was interested should really show some form of wishing to be affectionate and/or an agency terp some subtle way of bringing things to afore. You said after all that Mila thought she like you, as a 'friend' and as an agency I would have thought suggesting a bit more togetherness would have been appropriate as after all that is what an agency is 'supposed' to be for helping promising couples get together.

Knowing this that you have told me the picture building up is one where I think I would have great reservations using Mila's services in matchmaking.

Look Trench, neither you nor I have used Mila and you have a VERY bad habit of dissing the likes of Ed and Mila - not having had ANY experience, personally.

One minute you admit to not being able to read the signs women send out and the next you post like you are an 'expert' ....Sorry, but your advice SUCKS !!! 

What CAN we learn here ?  ....

 I didn't want my hand held - even though it made for some awkward moments with misunderstandings re translations..I'd much rather meet someone that I had corresponded with BEFORE meeting --certainly chatting on Skype or similar - and having some knowledge of that person... otherwise this is just like blind dating ... 

It's a long way to go to experience a lottery - with the same chances of 'winning'.







 

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