How important is it for her to Speak English

[wiz]

Bye the way when I posted Wiz's total contradicition I am happy that he did not stop posting here.  Hi is fun to argue with too.

Listen Turbo

You found me 2 days, before going on holiday, without much work to do, that is why I continue posting and yes I said at the time that I will make no more comments.

On the other hand I got fed up with you, like the others, telling us that white is black and black is white!

Despite everybody proving you wrong you still go on!
I have told you .........you like arguing for the sake of it.

I think you are a Keyboard Romeo!...LOL

Next time you visit Kiev, let me know and I come down to be your assistant in assessing that woman!
You probably comeback married to USA!......HA HA HA

[Turboguy]

Wiz,  That is great.  Two days before a holiday I usually have so much to do I can't even find much time to sleep.

I never said white was black and black was white. I just said something that has some logic.  You guys are defending a ridiculous position which is to say something is totally impossible that lots and lots of people have done.  I have never said it is easy.  I have never said it is desirable.  I never said the risks were not greater.  My only point is that there is at least a small chance of success.  Actually about half of the RW-AM marriages I know outside of RWD have done with success.  I will agree that is only two out of 4 but two is more than the 0 you guys claim there are.   Impossible means impossible.  One successful marriage of a non English speaking gal means you guys are wrong.  Just SOC proves it.  You really believe that in the history of us Immigration not one marriage has succeeded under those conditions.

[wiz]

Wiz,  That is great.  Two days before a holiday I usually have so much to do I can't even find much time to sleep.

I never said white was black and black was white. I just said something that has some logic.  You guys are defending a ridiculous position which is to say something is totally impossible that lots and lots of people have done.  I have never said it is easy.  I have never said it is desirable.  I never said the risks were not greater.  My only point is that there is at least a small chance of success.  Actually about half of the RW-AM marriages I know outside of RWD have done with success.  I will agree that is only two out of 4 but two is more than the 0 you guys claim there are.   Impossible means impossible.  One successful marriage of a non English speaking gal means you guys are wrong.  Just SOC proves it.  You really believe that in the history of us Immigration not one marriage has succeeded under those conditions.

Here you go again trying to prove your impossible position!

I will close down now for the night by telling you what my Maths teacher told us at school.

THE EXCEPTIONS PROVE THE RULE!

Good night!

[Turboguy]

Good night Wiz,

To me we have about 10 pages that are a total waste.  You guys are not going to convince me.  I have seen proof it can be done.  I am not going to convince you, even though you are arguing a minority position.  Why don't we just hang this thing out to dry.

[ConnerVT]

Anyone remember my old siggy tag line from RWG that Leslie liked so much?

"Never try to...."  Uh, nevermind...   

[Turboguy]

, nevermind

Sounds good

[catzenmouse]

Well this is another case of a thread gone bad. I haven't been married that long but I think I might just be an OMB or Pickle Packer or whatever the latest term is. I guess I am just frustrated with the snippy pissing contests going on that move from thread to thread with no let up. Get over it or as my ex used to tell me when I did not agree with her "grow up".

Personally I voted in the 6-7 (should have been an because when we met, Elena did not speak much English. She understood a lot but was not confident in her ability to speak. She started taking lessons right away and that coupled with our hours of phone conversations put us to the right place so that when she arrived here she was tops in her ESL class and has since aced an advanced class. To this day she still does not believe that she speaks very well. I and others know and tell her different. So, yes it is possible, but not for the faint of heart or the undedicated which we were and are to this day.

Ken

[Turboguy]

Nice story Ken and I agree with you about needing to move on from our differences.

One of the things you said seems to be a common thing.  It seems like a lot of the gals when they start to get a pretty good handle on English do not realize how far they have come and how much they have learned.   Perhaps when you know enough you start to realize how much you don't know.   I am not sure if that is it or not.  Sure wish I could get my Russian to that point.

[Jet]

The unmarried still looking guys, probably gave themselves some little leeway (19 of them),   

jb,
I have to "fess up" I was one of the nineteen  . But I'll quantify it with this: Everytime I deal in absolutes, some jerkoff comes along pulls it off, and makes a liar out of me 
I believe the chances for success hover somewhere around that 0.013% guess that was tossed out earlier and ultimate long term success will always hinge on communication, whether it's AM/AW, AM/RW, or RM/RW.

[catzenmouse]

Addendum:

 For the record, I agree with TG and BillyB about the fact that we tend to get aggressive/rude at times. I think I've done it a couple of times myself this evening. The message can and will get lost in the delivery at times. We are actually a "Band of Brothers/Sisters" in a lot of ways. Often a bit dysfunctional but that is normal for any family of this type. I don't discount anything that is said here (for the most part) by the members. People like TG have more time "in country" than many married folks so his input is more in tune for those looking than those of us who are past that point. I also value PG's input no matter how it worked out for him. All information/opinions are valuable here.

Ken

[Turboguy]

Ken, actually I think you have rarely if ever been rude.  To me you are one of the nicest guys here and I know enough to know that it is for real.

I am not saying this to stir anything back up at all.  I want to see all the bickering end.  I think some of the problem is that some of the guys think I never listen to them and never change and am making the same mistakes year after year.  The truth of it is I have made many large changes in how I went about this.  Sooner or later I will find the system that works for me.  Basically I started off in the snail mail days doing a WMVM but part of the problem was myself and I have learned that now.  Another part of the problem was the time factor when arranging a trip when the mail turn around time was 5-6 weeks.  Then I went to the big agency tour route for a couple of years.  Had RWD been around I am sure I would have never wasted the time with that but it was not so I had to learn for myself.  I guarantee you I will never again do a big agency tour.  Then along came Luda.  After Luda I tried a couple of disastrous WOVO's.  Those are now history.  My two attempts at a WMVM both did not work out.  One for my own stupidity to do what I said I would never do again but did.  My last because I ended up in the hospital instead of Ukraine and Russia.  My plans right now are to try one of Jack's tours for my next step and if that doesn't work it will be quickly followed up by a couple of WMVM that hopefully will happen this time.  The other change I have made is to move up my age range.  I use to target late 20's.  Now I am targeting late 30's to mid 40's with one gal I like a lot who is 52.  I still do have contacts with a few younger ones that started a long time ago but the ones I am contacting now are virtually all older.

I don't mean to disagree and stir up any arguments but for those who think I am making the same mistakes over and over, I can't agree with you.  For those who think anything they say goes in one ear and out the other.  I don't agree with you either.

[TexasBoar]

. . . when we met, Elena did not speak much English. She understood a lot but was not confident in her ability to speak.

That's a very common stage in the language acquisition process, so if someone is actively engaged in learning English, it shouldn't be a cause for alarm or concern.

Typically, it takes 2-4 years to acquire social language, and as much as 10 to reach full native fluency in academic, formal English. (I'm an ESL specialist, and was the technical writer for my state's ESL teaching certification training program) Motivation helps, of course---I had a student who in her first year (9th grade) went from virtually no English at all to outperforming native speakers on essays and oral presentations alike.  Great kid . . . graduated last year, and was already working as a bilingual/translator with an international firm when she did.

Of course, I've also had students who at the end of our two-year program (all that's federally allowed) couldn't put a sentence together.  

~Boar

[Turboguy]

For the most part I think the training the gals from the FSU have had tend to make them faster learners than some of the students from other parts of the world.   With a couple of the people I have know, my friend, Helen from San Francisco came here knowing one sentance of Engish and two years later was totally fluent with a cute Russan accent.  Her 10 year old son didn't even have an accent.  My other friend Elena from Ukriane came here being about a 4 on a 5 scale and after 3 years here was a 4 on a 5 scale and had such a bad accent it was hard to understand anything she said, so yes you are right, there is a big differnce in the learning curve for these gals.

I liked your post Boar and you definately qualify as an expert.

[TexasBoar]

For the most part I think the training the gals from the FSU have had tend to make them faster learners than some of the students from other parts of the world.

All that e-correspondence and web-camming? 

Thanks, TG . . . I don't know much, but I know a few things thoroughly. 

~Boar

[Turboguy]

Yes, I think they have a lot more exposure to English than they realize.  It is in a lot of the music some of the movies and tv and even some signs in Russia are in English, not many but some.  Add in the e-mails and some other exposures and the fact that a lot of them have a good education and take learning seriously and I think they can pick up things faster than a lot of gals.  When Luda was in ESL class there was an older lady from SA and her daughter in the class.  The older lady had lived here 10 years and barely knew a word of English.  You might find some Russian in Brighton Beach that way but I think most of them are going to pick it up in less than 10 years.

Hey if you know anything thoroughly you are ahead of me.  Some days it takes me 10 mintues to remember how to put my pants on.  Particualarly if I have not had a cup of coffee yet.

[Durk]

          I would have voted if you would have included the number 8. Guys I enjoy reading
  the posts here its all good. I had to kid you the other week but I am getting used to all of
   this. HEY!! I have the perfect answer for the bickering. Ken, Jet, JB, KenC, and some the other
   married guys you need to take Turbo on a super tour and get this guy a wife. Then at least you
   can all bicker about the same thing. LOL    Groov said he would like to introduce some of the
   girls he met to other guys. Network this a bit  ???   That would be a pretty good way to get
   rid of some of the issues we have to deal with. Has anybody tried phonics in this group?

                                                                                                      D

[KenC]

Turbo,

I don't mean to disagree and stir up any arguments

 
KenC

[PeeWee]

For the most part I think the training the gals from the FSU have had tend to make them faster learners than some of the students from other parts of the world.   With a couple of the people I have know, my friend, Helen from San Francisco came here knowing one sentance of Engish and two years later was totally fluent with a cute Russan accent.  Her 10 year old son didn't even have an accent.  My other friend Elena from Ukriane came here being about a 4 on a 5 scale and after 3 years here was a 4 on a 5 scale and had such a bad accent it was hard to understand anything she said, so yes you are right, there is a big differnce in the learning curve for these gals.

I liked your post Boar and you definately qualify as an expert.

I know a fellow by the name of Lev who was a surgeon in Latvia. He migrated here with his son who at the time was 15. He told me that his son learned English that he learned it quickly and that he now does not have an accent. He said that is common with children but not so common with adults. My friend Lena's son is now working in NY for the summer. She told me the other day that several have asked him if he is from either England or Scotland. He's Russian but speaks English and some how has developed an English accent. I speak very little Russian but I did ask Lena if what I speak has an accent. Apparently my limited Russian is heard spoken with a Polish accent of all things. Go figure. My son speaks Mandarin Chinese and has been told that he has no accent at all by his Chinese friends.

Peewee

[wiz]

The other change I have made is to move up my age range.  I use to target late 20's.  Now I am targeting late 30's to mid 40's with one gal I like a lot who is 52.  I still do have contacts with a few younger ones that started a long time ago but the ones I am contacting now are virtually all older.

How Old are you Turbo?

PS: Can somebody explain to me all these abbreviations.....WMVM etc as I do not understand any of them?
I just don't understand why people have to use abbreviations when they type a post?
You do that when you sent a mob text.

Have we lost the art to articulate when we are writing a letter or a post?

THAT IS WHY I ENJOY READING GROOV'S POSTS AND TRAVEL REPORTS!

[Turboguy]

Hi Wiz,

WMVM and WOVO are very common.  It is used a lot in the MOB scene.   W is Write, M is Many, V is Visit O is one.   WOVO is someone who is writing to one gal and then visits her.  Write many visit many is a guy who writes a lot of gals and then go visits a lot of them spending a little less time with each.   It is a little Like LOL and ROFL and others used in chat rooms.  They are used so much that people forget that not everyone understands.  It just saves a lot of time in typing. 

There is another place somewhere on the internet, similar to here but not as nice where we have been talking about the codes they use on their side postings under their name.  Things like time married and trips to the FSU.  One of the other things they have on that is technique such as WOVO. 

You asked my age.  I am 64.   I am glad you didn't ask what time it is here.  I would have a hard time explaining why I am writing here at 3:30 AM.   Either I am a RWD junkie or I couldn't sleep or both.

[BC]

PS: Can somebody explain to me all these abbreviations.....WMVM etc as I do not understand any of them?
I just don't understand why people have to use abbreviations when they type a post?

Wiz,

You can find many of these abbreviations here : http://russianwomendiscussion.com/wiki/index.php?RWD%20Glossary

[wiz]

Hi Wiz,

WMVM and WOVO are very common.  It is used a lot in the MOB scene.   W is Write, M is Many, V is Visit O is one.   WOVO is someone who is writing to one gal and then visits her.  Write many visit many is a guy who writes a lot of gals and then go visits a lot of them spending a little less time with each.   It is a little Like LOL and ROFL and others used in chat rooms.  They are used so much that people forget that not everyone understands.  It just saves a lot of time in typing. 

There is another place somewhere on the Internet, similar to here but not as nice where we have been talking about the codes they use on their side postings under their name.  Things like time married and trips to the FSU.  One of the other things they have on that is technique such as WOVO. 

You asked my age.  I am 64.   I am glad you didn't ask what time it is here.  I would have a hard time explaining why I am writing here at 3:30 AM.   Either I am a RWD junkie or I couldn't sleep or both.

Morning again

I can only guess......

You can't sleep because you don't have a woman to keep you interested in bed and warm you up!

Simple, you are filling your LONELY empty nights with writing on this board and probably many others.........
You are surfing probably many dating sites too.....and sure enough you are very unhappy!

I don't think you are interested in doing any work........

You need desperately a woman to fill your lonely and empty life.


You are 64 years old and

The other change I have made is to move up my age range.  I use to target late 20's.  Now I am targeting late 30's to mid 40's with one gal I like a lot who is 52.

Sorry my friend but you are Vain and in need of a reality check, because in my view, with that attitude you are just a FOOL!

When it was the last time you looked yourself in the Mirror?

How old is that photo on your avatar?

When you stop painting your hair then take another photo and add it in your profile, here and everywhere you have a profile!

Now we know the reason why you have not found a woman in FSU, after 10 years looking!

Yes, we all know that, some women from FSU are desperate to get out and make a better life, so they accept an age difference much larger of what is accepted in the West, But in your case they don't seem to be that desperate!

WHAT DO YOU OR WILL HAVE IN COMMON WITH A 20's and now 30's years old woman?

Why the hell you don't move your arse and go and visit that 52 years old woman, which is nearer to your age, instead of chasing the American dream of Pamella Anderson and trophy Barby Doll wife?

If you want I can also introduce you to Nat, who is 47 years old, very attractive, very sexy, has a strong character......and speaks Good English! She will sort you out, make you happy and sure enough she will wear the trousers at your house.

Just because her character and mine don't match, does not mean that she is not a good woman or would not make a good wife for somebody else!

I told you before: You have to be cruel to be kind!


I hope you take notice to what I said and I can assure you I am not malicious with my comments!


ABOUT ABBREVIATIONS....I reiterate my comments made before:

Have we lost the art to articulate when we are writing a letter or a post?

THAT IS WHY I ENJOY READING GROOV'S POSTS AND TRAVEL REPORTS!

You have plenty of time so stop been lazy.

[Bruno]

ABOUT ABBREVIATIONS....I reiterate my comments made before:
You have plenty of time so stop been lazy.

Before make comment, try to clean before your own door...

PS: Can somebody explain to me all these abbreviations.....WMVM etc as I do not understand any of them?
I just don't understand why people have to use abbreviations when they type a post?

You complain about abbreviations but you use them yourself... Why have you type "PS" in place of "post scriptum"... and in your last post, you use two time the term "FSU" in place of "Former Soviet Union"...

At the extreme, why you write "You can't sleep" in place of "You cannot sleep"

Everybody use abbreviation, and yourself too !!!

[Turboguy]

Morning again

I can only guess......
You can't sleep because you don't have a woman to keep you interested in bed and warm you up!
Simple, you are filling your LONELY empty nights with writing on this board and probably many others.........
You are surfing probably many dating sites too.....and sure enough you are very unhappy!

Good guess Wiz, but I think not a right one.  My nights are not lonely, they do get a little boring sometimes.  No, the only other board I visit frequently and post frequently is my own.  The only fight we have had there  in the last 6 months was about topical applications of Myocardial Fungi.  Not nearly as much fun to fight about and I have no posts in that argument.  I have not even been on RWG in a few months and have made maybe two quick visits to RMP (Sorry about the abbreviations.  If you don't know what they are you can ask but that one I won't help you with because I don't want to promote another site.  If you really want to know PM me and I will tell you).  I have decided to go ahead and start doing an occasional date with some American gals.  Tonight I have a date with a 44 year old AW. (sorry again, I think you will know that one)  I don't spend that much time on dating sites.  Right now I have to for Jacks trip.  Normally I visit FreePersonals most days and check out the weekly mailer from Elena's.   I don't go to others.   No, I am not unhappy, not at all, probably a lot less unhappy than you are from what I see in the posts.
I don't think you are interested in doing any work........

I enjoy my work Wiz.  It is very creative.  I do have my business set up that it practically runs itself.  Other than the creative part when I am there I am mostly dealing with odd situations that arise and it is mostly just telling someone in a unique situation that they should do exactly what they planned to do if they had not asked.  I guarantee you I have already done more work than you and any 35 year old here put together.

You need desperately a woman to fill your lonely and empty life.
You are 64 years old and

I don't think I desperately need one.  I was avoiding dating AW because I did not want to complicate my life or theirs and I did not think it was fair.  Thanks to two messed up trips in a row it is taking longer than I expected and I am getting bored. As far as the 64 part, yes, I can't argue about that a bit.  My dad was dead at this point in his life so I am not complaining about it.  You will be here yourself before you know it.

Sorry my friend but you are Vain and in need of a reality check, because in my view, with that attitude you are just a FOOL!

Personally I don't think I have a vain bone in my body.  My opinion.

When it was the last time you looked yourself in the Mirror?

Yesterday when I shaved.  I will be doing the same thing in a few minutes.  It probably will look about the same as yesterday

How old is that photo on your avatar?

It was taken October 6, 2005 at the wedding of a friend.  Luda took it.  Actually this is about the only place I still use that.  It is recent but I think it looks better than I do in real life for some reason and I don't want to mislead the gals and have them disappointed when we meet.

When you stop painting your hair then take another photo and add it in your profile, here and everywhere you have a profile!

I don't dye my hair (or paint it as you say).  That is my natural color.

Now we know the reason why you have not found a woman in FSU, after 10 years looking!

Yes, we all know that, some women from FSU are desperate to get out and make a better life, so they accept an age difference much larger of what is accepted in the West, But in your case they don't seem to be that desperate!

I guess you are right on that Wiz

WHAT DO YOU OR WILL HAVE IN COMMON WITH A 20's and now 30's years old woman?

Never seemed to have a bit of problem with it Wiz.  Luda who was 28 said she never noticed the age difference.  Even with AW I have dated a lot of gals who were 20+ years younger and never had a problem with it.  The only time I have a problem with felling I have something in common with a gal is when I date one close to my age.  Yes, sometimes that is not the case.

Why the hell you don't move your arse and go and visit that 52 years old woman, which is nearer to your age, instead of chasing the American dream of Pamella Anderson and trophy Barby Doll wife?

My plans are to visit the 52 year old but that will be a trip after Jack's tour.  Right now I am doing fine but I don't think my doctors would want me going quite that far quite yet. 

If you want I can also introduce you to Nat, who is 47 years old, very attractive, very sexy, has a strong character......and speaks Good English! She will sort you out, make you happy and sure enough she will wear the trousers at your house.  Just because her character and mine don't match, does not mean that she is not a good woman or would not make a good wife for somebody else!

Thanks Wiz, but if she could fit into my pants she would probably be bigger than I would like.
I told you before: You have to be cruel to be kind!

Yes, you have told me that before but you haven't convinced me this is one of the applications where that is true.  There are some, I agree.

I hope you take notice to what I said and I can assure you I am not malicious with my comments!

I am sure wiz,  I am not malicious with mine either.

ABOUT ABBREVIATIONS....I reiterate my comments made before:

You have plenty of time so stop been lazy.

What makes you think I am lazy?  When I was getting my business started an easy week was 120 hours.  I would often go 3 days without sleeping or stopping work.  Even in less demanding times my work week averaged 100 hours.  Right now I am taking it a little easy but that won't last long.

[PeeWee]

Morning again

I can only guess......

You can't sleep because you don't have a woman to keep you interested in bed and warm you up!

Simple, you are filling your LONELY empty nights with writing on this board and probably many others.........
You are surfing probably many dating sites too.....and sure enough you are very unhappy!

I don't think you are interested in doing any work........

You need desperately a woman to fill your lonely and empty life.


You are 64 years old and

Sorry my friend but you are Vain and in need of a reality check, because in my view, with that attitude you are just a FOOL!

When it was the last time you looked yourself in the Mirror?

How old is that photo on your avatar?

When you stop painting your hair then take another photo and add it in your profile, here and everywhere you have a profile!

Now we know the reason why you have not found a woman in FSU, after 10 years looking!

Yes, we all know that, some women from FSU are desperate to get out and make a better life, so they accept an age difference much larger of what is accepted in the West, But in your case they don't seem to be that desperate!

WHAT DO YOU OR WILL HAVE IN COMMON WITH A 20's and now 30's years old woman?

Why the hell you don't move your arse and go and visit that 52 years old woman, which is nearer to your age, instead of chasing the American dream of Pamella Anderson and trophy Barby Doll wife?

If you want I can also introduce you to Nat, who is 47 years old, very attractive, very sexy, has a strong character......and speaks Good English! She will sort you out, make you happy and sure enough she will wear the trousers at your house.

Just because her character and mine don't match, does not mean that she is not a good woman or would not make a good wife for somebody else!

I told you before: You have to be cruel to be kind!


I hope you take notice to what I said and I can assure you I am not malicious with my comments!


ABOUT ABBREVIATIONS....I reiterate my comments made before:

You have plenty of time so stop been lazy.

This is an example of British humor? Correct? If not then I think that you make far to many assumptions and they may be completely incorrect.

Peewee