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Author Topic: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg  (Read 10143 times)

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Online jone

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #75 on: January 18, 2018, 02:45:49 PM »
OK, let's add in some real possibilities.

WM and RW are married.
Armed conflict breaks out between USA and Russia, even if limited in scope.  A family member or close family friend of one of them is killed in the conflict.

Now, keep the impact of this out of  "how they interact on a personal level."

Another possibility.

Sanctions are racheted up to such a level that the RW's family and friends back in Russia are being severely impacted.  The WM is already being bled dry with money sent back to Russia, but it is still not enough; and the money itself does not overcome the bitterness felt toward the American people and government for putting ordinary Russians in this position.

Yes, just rely on 'amelioration.'

Extreme situations happen all through life.  Either you get through them or you don't.  This is nothing compared to, say, mentally retarded offspring or losing a job/longtime unemployment or natural disaster. 

Your perspective is of the worst possible scenarios.  Keep in mind, on an individual level, people are favorably disposed towards interacting with Russians.
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Offline ML

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2018, 03:17:16 PM »
Your perspective is of the worst possible scenarios.  Keep in mind, on an individual level, people are favorably disposed towards interacting with Russians.

Well it has already happened with spouse's friend's killed and family wounded by Russian terrorists in Eastern Ukraine.

I can guarantee you we are not favorably disposed toward interacting with Russians.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online msmob

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2018, 04:53:03 PM »
Well it has already happened with spouse's friend's killed and family wounded by Russian terrorists in Eastern Ukraine.

I can guarantee you we are not favorably disposed toward interacting with Russians.

THIS is were I gulp and wonder how you can think this this ... 

When the IRA bumped off a British soldier or an 'informer' ....  should I have chosen NOT to interact with 'Irish' people, in general?

[ note ] I was brought up in Northern Ireland, taught that the north was part of the UK and to remind people calling me 'Irish' that I was British .....   

I took shit from English kids who 'blamed' me for the 1974 Birmingham Pub bombings - I had moved to the 'mainland' ( Great Britain ) [ the United Kingdom is Great Britain and Northern Ireland ]

I was sure that UK justice could never send six men to prison for this atrocity - unless they'd done it .. which it transpired - they HADN'T

During the eighties many Americans though Maggie Thatcher was great on one hand, but 'Irish Americans' sent money to the IRA to buy guns to kill 'my people' ...  and Maggie stood by 'us' promising - no surrender.

Who were the 'bad' guys, ML ?



« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 03:11:11 AM by msmob »
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2018, 06:09:21 PM »
...
As far as I understand people in the USA mostly rent than own their own apartments,...


Use the following only as a general information, so please use with caution. As of 2016, there's an estimated 118 million household in the US. About 64% are 'homeowners, 36% renters. A US household typically consist of about 2.6 people.


Quote
kindergartens and rent cost a lot in comparison to our prices,


Varies by location & service. We've been exploring cost for day care vs daytime nanny - pre-school - kindegarten, etc... Daytime (bonded) nanny will cost a couple roughly $4,500.00/MO +/- (anywhere from $18-$20.00/hr x however many hours/day you use one). Pre-school cost range is $8,500 - $10,000.00/year (nic $1,000.00 upfront cost); Kindergarten runs a gambit and will mostly depend on specific school and program. Rough estimate (high-end) $15,000.00/yr.


Rent cost, again very subjective. Marina del Rey, my old neighborhood, for example is hovering about $2,500-$3,000/mo for a studio. When I lived there before I got married - 10+ years ago, beach/waterside, one bedroom apartment (that usually mean, in Russian speak 3/4 rooms. You get separate bedroom, living room/dining room, kitchen), I was only paying $1,100.00/mo.
 
Quote
and medical service is unbelievably expensive. My friend joked after returning from New York telling me: 'imagine you are at the surgeon's and at the end of a surgery you tell the doctor: "please take my kidney... keep the change :) ".


Yes. Health care cost in the US is pretty expensive. No argument. However, I believe the last estimate have 83% of insured are via employment. Depending on which health program you choose, determines your co-pay and deductible. For you and your child (considered family plan), you could be looking at about $800.00/mo premium.


Quote
Even if I made up my mind for a second higher education or any further studies, which I am interested in, they would cost a fortune over there. Yesterday I was reading about scholarships for people who want to continue their studies abroad, most of them require a student to return back to Russia for a certain period of time after finishing studies, and of course it is not that simple, since you have to take some examination, collect a pile of documents and translate them, you should have money to travel there and other relative expenses and thus I assume that decision is not reasonable to be taken on my own.

Dear friends, can you share any resources for employment and career that are popular abroad (in your country)? Interesting to know....


Without knowing what your ultimate goal is, which degree, or what you plan on pursuing, etc..hard to put a number on that right now. I can tell you that with my wife, who's a CPA now, she had some credit she received from Russia when she first came here. But she still had to go through, IIRC, about 4 years of school (includes selective college level ESL classes). I would estimate it cost us (me) just a tick under $12K/year (cheaper than today's kindergarten schooling). Of course, she didn't have to worry about living expenses, automobile, rent, etc...


Others can chime in in here if they have different or additional helpful information.


Anyway, not sure if this helps any at all. Los Angeles is a pretty expensive city, but I reckon not as expensive as NY, SF, maybe not even Moscow or your town.


Good luck.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 06:15:21 PM by GQBlues »
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Online LAman

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2018, 07:10:40 PM »

Use the following only as a general information, so please use with caution. As of 2016, there's an estimated 118 million household in the US. About 64% are 'homeowners, 36% renters. A US household typically consist of about 2.6 people.
 


Rent cost, again very subjective. Marina del Rey, my old neighborhood, for example is hovering about $2,500-$3,000/mo for a studio. When I lived there before I got married - 10+ years ago, beach/waterside, one bedroom apartment (that usually mean, in Russian speak 3/4 rooms. You get separate bedroom, living room/dining room, kitchen), I was only paying $1,100.00/mo.


Anyway, not sure if this helps any at all. Los Angeles is a pretty expensive city, but I reckon not as expensive as NY, SF, maybe not even Moscow or your town.


GQ, I wonder how many of the 64% homeowners are baby boomers? Pretty hard to be homeowner nowadays if 20-30's.

Considering the median household income is $55,000, how can someone own a home let alone rent one, there was an article I read it takes ~100k income to afford RENTING an average house in LA.
Again, use this information as a general rule.
 
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #80 on: January 18, 2018, 08:33:29 PM »
GQ, I wonder how many of the 64% homeowners are baby boomers? Pretty hard to be homeowner nowadays if 20-30's.

LAMAN-

Here's a good information site that directly answer your Q ~ http://www.nmhc.org/Content.aspx?id=4708  It also has additional information to slice through income/age/location.

Quote
Considering the median household income is $55,000, how can someone own a home let alone rent one, there was an article I read it takes ~100k income to afford RENTING an average house in LA. Again, use this information as a general rule.

I know what you mean. It appears unattainable for that income level from first view, but you'd be surprised if you get pretty intimate in how many of these household can actually afford a home in that income bracket. Let's forget regional difference for now and stick to both our home region, SoCal.

You know the daily exodus of cars on the 14 southbound every morning. Masses of folks coming down to LA from the fringes of Palmdale/Lancaster/Antelope Valley areas. You also know how many folks commute from the Inland Empire into downtown LA every morning. Blood red on Google map every time. Predicated on DTI (debt to income) ratio, many of these LI households earn home ownership via FHA loans. A modest 2-BR home say in Lancaster costing $200,000.00. 3.5% down payment means cash outlay required is $7,000.00. Amount of loan to finance is $193,000.00. At today's rate, just off the top of my head, +/- $1,000.00 (?), $12,000.00/yr + PT (of which, prior to tax reform), tax shelter brings back, again, rough, $3,000.00. So down and dirty: $55K gross - $38K net; less $15K M/PT $23K + $3K TR - $26K for all other expenses.

Now if they rent, in the same area and comparable rental unit (2-BD home) is on average renting for about $2k/mo. A 2-BR apartment in the same area is renting for about $1,350.00. As of 2017, no tax shelter. 

All other things (expense) being more or less equal.

Based on this quick exercise, with a little perseverance, home ownership do in fact have an upside. We're not even equating appreciation into the mix.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is, it's not only possible, but actually downright beneficial as long as the party involved is disciplined, patient, and more of a long term type as opposed to the contrary, impatient/impulsive type. The home appreciates, they sell it, amass relative greater cash for down payment for a bigger home, or one closer to city center, etc...Before you know it, they're making offers to buy Jone's and your home on Easy Street.

I know it's likely the same for many, our mortgage for our primary home is actually so much less than an average (in a decent neighborhood - much more if one is in MDR or SouthBay) 1 BR apartment. Almost 100% less compared to a 1 BR apartment in Sta. Monica these days.

~ I do not know how the new tax law impacts $55k households (homeowner v renter) when the new deductible/tax brackets are compared.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 08:49:29 PM by GQBlues »
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Offline Elena020118

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2018, 07:51:26 AM »
Hello, guys,
It has been a while, but I missed you :)
I have been busy with work and figuring out where I am going to live with my kid in the next few months as I am moving out soon. Things are a bit complicated, probably will be seeking for a second job for weekends.

I recently 'drove' in a car from Britain to Sochi ( and back) - cheating by using the train to transport the car to and from Sochi ( from Moscow)

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22274.msg471448#msg471448

I haven't finished writing up the return leg..( via Piter)

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22388.msg474461#msg474461

Wow! that was quite a long journey and a very detailed description. Interesting to know so much stuff on travelling by car :) I didn't know there was a carriage for cars to take with you on a train. And seems that it requires some knowledge on documents which you have to carry with you.  :)

I wonder what you job is about. And what is has to do with spending a lot of time in Sochi.

I was there for the first time in December and it mostly rained so I can't say I got much impression. Except for some funny issues I experienced within that trip but that is not something I would like to discuss in public.

As far as I understand your sim card provides you free roaming across EU without any extra service to be set up by your mobile operator?

Sad to know that the russian staff at Finland's customs gave you cold greetings. Hopefully it didn't spoil the impression of the whole trip. How long did it take in total for the whole trip? What about russian visa? What is the shortest period it is issued the first time you get it?

P.S you are a good writer :) accept my admiration  :clapping:

I don’t think how a man reacts to your friends, family, etc. is at all relevant. Look at what is in his heart. That’s all that matters.

Pitbull is hardly a militant feminist. Western mentality is different than the mentality of the Slavic parts of the FSU, and the role of women in the family is different.

I suppose it is also important to see his interaction with his own family\friends. It can tell a lot. But that is not an easy thing to learn. Takes time

Can you provide more info on the role of women in the family, how it is different in FSU and Western countries?

It (my bolded) would be an interesting poll, Jone.

I, for one, feel that a harmonious relationship (for both partners) with immediate/ extended family and to a lessor degree friends/acquaintances is fundamental to a healthy, strong relationship between a couple.

There will always be one or two potholes in the road as one travels life but strife among family is a drain and might end up with one or both partners having to take a side. This can lead to conflict.

I believe that it should be considered a factor when choosing a mate, male or female.

Brass

I absolutely agree on that, from what I see I would also add that living apart from extended family is one of the key factors to help keep that relationship harmonious and maybe even save one's immediate family from being destroyed.

Yes, she can find them and even marry and move to the west.

However, the marriage is unlikely to be successful when it starts to sink in to the western guy the feelings, beliefs and interpretations she has about Russia's past and current actions on the world stage.

So she would be setting herself up for big heartache down the road.
And it won't be successful (over time) for her to try to hide her feelings and beliefs.

As I already mentioned I haven't been following the news for quite a long period of time, but whether one wants it or not - one's communication with other people helps also build his\her own attitude to what takes place. And after my recent biz trip to Moscow, after meeting some of our foreign colleagues from Europe, some of whom actually worked in Kiev, after meeting my extended family who live and work in Crimea I would stick to what I already said.
I just have my own point of view on the whole situation and that is it. There are no saints on the Earth but many devils, and by "devils" I mean not people themselves but what they fight for and what they are capable of doing when it comes to getting what they want.
So in case someone would like to discuss politics with me and convince me that RF is an aggressor I suppose it is in fact a wrong way to build any respective relationship. I am not keen on discussing such things at all. I would rather prefer other topics, so I am not going to be the initiator.
I hope that won't be an issue when choosing the love of my life :)



Use the following only as a general information, so please use with caution. As of 2016, there's an estimated 118 million household in the US. About 64% are 'homeowners, 36% renters. A US household typically consist of about 2.6 people.



Varies by location & service. We've been exploring cost for day care vs daytime nanny - pre-school - kindegarten, etc... Daytime (bonded) nanny will cost a couple roughly $4,500.00/MO +/- (anywhere from $18-$20.00/hr x however many hours/day you use one). Pre-school cost range is $8,500 - $10,000.00/year (nic $1,000.00 upfront cost); Kindergarten runs a gambit and will mostly depend on specific school and program. Rough estimate (high-end) $15,000.00/yr.


Rent cost, again very subjective. Marina del Rey, my old neighborhood, for example is hovering about $2,500-$3,000/mo for a studio. When I lived there before I got married - 10+ years ago, beach/waterside, one bedroom apartment (that usually mean, in Russian speak 3/4 rooms. You get separate bedroom, living room/dining room, kitchen), I was only paying $1,100.00/mo.
 

Yes. Health care cost in the US is pretty expensive. No argument. However, I believe the last estimate have 83% of insured are via employment. Depending on which health program you choose, determines your co-pay and deductible. For you and your child (considered family plan), you could be looking at about $800.00/mo premium.



Without knowing what your ultimate goal is, which degree, or what you plan on pursuing, etc..hard to put a number on that right now. I can tell you that with my wife, who's a CPA now, she had some credit she received from Russia when she first came here. But she still had to go through, IIRC, about 4 years of school (includes selective college level ESL classes). I would estimate it cost us (me) just a tick under $12K/year (cheaper than today's kindergarten schooling). Of course, she didn't have to worry about living expenses, automobile, rent, etc...


Others can chime in in here if they have different or additional helpful information.


Anyway, not sure if this helps any at all. Los Angeles is a pretty expensive city, but I reckon not as expensive as NY, SF, maybe not even Moscow or your town.


Good luck.

Thank you for the information. As far as I get it - an employer may take some 800 $ from your salary for your health insurance each month?
and the program may cover the expenses on your child as well, right?

Expensive or not obviously depends on monthly income and cost of living. Our average salaries are nothing compared to those overseas ) and tax system also varies. Lots of things to consider, our state kindergartens are around 14 euro a month as of today, some rare additional payment are for pencils, paper, paints, presents for kids and staff, and in case your child falls ill - you won't pay for the days he or she missed.


What about the most popular websites for employment in the US and in Europe?

What sources do you people use to monitor tickets for flights? Skyscanner? Momondo? What could u suggest for cheapest ways of travelling? I have a shengen visa open again and would like to take us to the sea to have some rest with my daughter, the only cheapest option for the summer is "You-Know-Where" ))) which I already have been to in 2016.


 

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2018, 08:03:51 AM »
What could u suggest for cheapest ways of travelling?
Walk ;D.
Quote
I have a shengen visa open again and would like to take us to the sea to have some rest with my daughter
More seriously, you might look into the Adriatic resorts/hotels on the Croatian and Albanian coasts, or on the Black Sea in Romania.
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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2018, 10:37:08 AM »
Hello, guys,
It has been a while, but I missed you :)
I have been busy with work and figuring out where I am going to live with my kid in the next few months as I am moving out soon. Things are a bit complicated, probably will be seeking for a second job for weekends.



Welcome back Elena. Moving isn't fun and a lot of work. I hope you got a lot of friends to help you.
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

Offline ML

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #84 on: February 25, 2018, 11:32:46 AM »
. . . I would stick to what I already said.  I just have my own point of view on the whole situation and that is it.

That pretty much says it all right there.

So in case someone would like to discuss politics with me and convince me that RF is an aggressor I suppose it is in fact a wrong way to build any respective relationship. I am not keen on discussing such things at all. I would rather prefer other topics, so I am not going to be the initiator.
I hope that won't be an issue when choosing the love of my life


Quite possible it will not be the issue at the time you and the man chose each other.
But later, as time passes and the honeymoon wears off, it will become a major divisive issue.

Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online msmob

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #85 on: March 02, 2018, 08:09:31 AM »
Elena

My wife is Russian and used to think like you.

I installed RU TV and have never tried to influence her ...  She simply meets more Ukrainian folk and those that can manage to stay calm and agree to disagree.

Sadly, under the current regime Russia is not trusted and I HATE that - as that stigma attaches to the people - not those trying to re-establish Moscow's 'influence' to Soviet times  - physically interfering in ex-SSR's and denying what is bleeding obvious

Yes, the US and EU have enticed the likes of Georgia and Ukraine - but they haven't put armies on the ground or recognised 'states' like 'Abkhazia' ( do check - Kosovo is not recognised at the UN )
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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #86 on: March 02, 2018, 08:45:52 AM »
Hello, guys,
It has been a while, but I missed you :)


Welcome back,



FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

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New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #87 on: March 02, 2018, 08:51:20 AM »
ML,

You can't play nice with ANY Russian?

My wife is Russian and we don't have fights about politics.
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online msmob

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #88 on: March 02, 2018, 09:23:55 AM »
ML,

You can't play nice with ANY Russian?

My wife is Russian and we don't have fights about politics.

Same here...   :welcome:
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Offline ML

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #89 on: March 02, 2018, 09:29:56 AM »
ML,

You can't play nice with ANY Russian?

My wife is Russian and we don't have fights about politics.

That can be explained by one of two alternatives.
You know what the alternatives are.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2018, 11:52:40 AM »
ML, please list your alternates - you may have a habit of seeing things in a very fixed way
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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #91 on: March 03, 2018, 02:05:07 AM »


Wow! that was quite a long journey and a very detailed description. Interesting to know so much stuff on travelling by car :) I didn't know there was a carriage for cars to take with you on a train. And seems that it requires some knowledge on documents which you have to carry with you.  :)

I wonder what you job is about. And what is has to do with spending a lot of time in Sochi.

I was there for the first time in December and it mostly rained so I can't say I got much impression. Except for some funny issues I experienced within that trip but that is not something I would like to discuss in public.

As far as I understand your sim card provides you free roaming across EU without any extra service to be set up by your mobile operator?

Sad to know that the russian staff at Finland's customs gave you cold greetings. Hopefully it didn't spoil the impression of the whole trip. How long did it take in total for the whole trip? What about russian visa? What is the shortest period it is issued the first time you get it?

P.S you are a good writer :) accept my admiration  :clapping:



Thanks, Elena !

Can I answer your questions on the thread ?

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22388.msg478406#msg478406

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New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #92 on: March 03, 2018, 01:38:09 PM »
Can you provide more info on the role of women in the family, how it is different in FSU and Western countries?

It varies from family to family. I spent many hours discussing this with my now
Russian wife before we got married and we decided on the path we would take 
and we discussed everything from the discipline of children to what pet peaves
to what belongs in the refrigerator and what belongs in the pantry.

I advise everybody who will listen to do the same. We frequently get men who
come here to tell the story of how things fell apart with their FSU bride and I
am stupefied by the stories that they tell. I can't believe they didn't talk about
how they would deal with this problem before they got married.

Example: The guy is unhappy because his wife had a child from a previous
marriage and NOW they disagree on who and how this child should be disciplined.
They didn't think to discuss this before getting married??!!?!?

While I wouldn't spend too much time discussing it before meeting and making
sure that we had chemistry, I would discuss it for hours and in depth to make
sure we were on the same page before marriage.


Thank you for the information. As far as I get it - an employer may take some $800
from your salary for your health insurance each month? and the program may cover
the expenses on your child as well, right?

It varies a lot from employer to employer and yes it can even be more than
$800. It can also be $200 or nothing. Many companies have fixed policies so
you need to take it into consideration when you negotiate your salary, wages
commissions etc.

What about the most popular websites for employment in the US and in Europe?

Indeed.com is very popular, if I find a company that I want to work for I call the
sales manager or he tracks me down and calls me.

What sources do you people use to monitor tickets for flights? Skyscanner? Momondo?

I use kayak.com and they have links for several others. Remember to clean out your
cookies before each search or you will find that the price is higher every time you
check. I use Momondo for Russian flights

I use http://www.ccleaner.com/


You can read my story about how I found my wife here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0

You can skip pages 7-14 as they are all about a fight I had, you can
read pages 6 and 15 and know more than enough about it. 

« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 01:43:02 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline Boethius

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2018, 12:46:19 AM »
Can you provide more info on the role of women in the family, how it is different in FSU and Western countries?


Women, at least the in Slavic parts of the FSU, run the home - the finances, the purchases, the cooking, the cleaning, and most importantly, the children.  Their role is to run the family.  Western women don't sew, they don't make jams, or pickles, or can fruits and vegetables.  Many meals are eaten out, rather than at home -


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/05/the-slow-death-of-the-home-cooked-meal/?utm_term=.e463f88343fe


http://globalnews.ca/news/3465075/canadians-eating-out-over-cooking-at-home/


Many couples maintain separate finances, and prenuptial agreements are common to deal with the division of assets on divorce.

To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline I/O

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #94 on: March 04, 2018, 02:45:19 AM »
Western women don't sew, they don't make jams, or pickles, or can fruits and vegetables.
Why then does my wife borrow sewing machines and preserving jars from my mother and why, at our local Church, is there always a swap table of preserves?

Offline Boethius

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Re: New Ice Breaker from Saint Petersburg
« Reply #95 on: March 04, 2018, 03:04:11 AM »
I meant WW who grew up in the 1970’s and beyond, which is still over forty years.

My mother grew up in the 1950’s.  She sewed a lot of our clothes, baked bread weekly, etc. I don’t sew much, though I will hem things and sew on loose buttons.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 11:56:16 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

 

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