Will she really leave her country?

[tbelknap]

 I have wondered if anyone has had a women that they have visited many time only to flake out when it comes to relocating. If anyone has had it happen, was there something that you realize now that you can use in the future to see if you are wasting your time with a particular woman? I would hate to waste my time with someone only to realize they can't make the move because they are very close to their family and friends.

I have had experiences with women I have met in my own country when it came to flaking out about moving. We talked about it openly and of course everything was fine until it came time to do it.

I can see the same happening in this pursuit. Like keyboard romeos there has to be women that want to move then decide they cannot when reality hits. Not only are you out a lot of money going to see her you are also out the time vested that you could have spent with someone who really wanted to move.

[KenC]

tbelknap,
There was a guy called Doc Woody that was the previous owner of Lifetime Partners agency that used to promote "converse in reverse" with RW.  What he meant was to have the serious "can you really relocate to America" conversation first and only then consider the RW as a candidate.  I thought it was pretty smart way to go.  Of course no one can predict what the final outcome may be.  All you can do is look for the proper signs or the lack of them.  But there are other things you can do even after the RW passes the initial tests.  Meet the parents is crucial.  They need to know that their baby is going to be taken care of and that you are not an ax murder.  Support from home is a very good thing to lean on in the future.  It is always best to look for signs of her choosing you over her family and friends while you are there, because in the end, she will have to do exactly that.  No one that knows will ever tell you that it is an easy decision for them.
KenC

[PeeWee]

tbelknap,
There was a guy called Doc Woody that was the previous owner of Lifetime Partners agency that used to promote "converse in reverse" with RW.  What he meant was to have the serious "can you really relocate to America" conversation first and only then consider the RW as a candidate.  I thought it was pretty smart way to go.  Of course no one can predict what the final outcome may be.  All you can do is look for the proper signs or the lack of them.  But there are other things you can do even after the RW passes the initial tests.  Meet the parents is crucial.  They need to know that their baby is going to be taken care of and that you are not an ax murder.  Support from home is a very good thing to lean on in the future.  It is always best to look for signs of her choosing you over her family and friends while you are there, because in the end, she will have to do exactly that.  No one that knows will ever tell you that it is an easy decision for them.
KenC

To add to KC's sound advice, especially the converse in reverse, you might pm JPC because he has had this happen to him. He mentioned it last week or so but I forget the thread. Each situation is different but to meet the parent or parents is an important step as Photoguy sadly learned. I have dated 5 RW over the years but two of them did not have parents and one had only one parent. It makes it easier when that happens. So to meet the parents is a maybe depending on her situation.

Not to mention your parents as well. You might get her here but if your parents are opposed to her or if they make her feel unwelcomed. I worry about my mother in this regard. Even when an AW shows up at the door she can be silently hostile until the poor woman proves herself to her. I have no idea how my bothers got their wives past her watch dog demenor. So mom's are an important person on both sides of the fence. Especially the Eastern European mother who seem to have an opinion about everything.

Peewee

[BC]

They say death, divorce and moving are the three most stressful situations faced in life..  and we're talking moves within the same country.

Working in this industry I can only agree.  Add new partner, new language, new culture, maybe first experience outside her country, travelling alone, maybe even first time on an airplane, pending marriage decisions, just to name a few additional stress factors and you sorta get an idea what's going through her head..

This is probably the first 'reality check' and 'test' of the relationship. I say first because there will be others later on.

My wife was plenty nervous even though many of the additional factors above didn't apply.  I think I would have worried more if she wasn't nervous.

In any case the more you invest in your relationship beforehand the easier this first step will likely be.  I think what reassured my wife the most was that we went through this together.  We celebrated the New Year together, had a tear jerking going away party with family and close friends, packed her bags and started our journey together as a couple.  I had debated whether or not to let her do this alone but when she called and said 'Honey.. come keep me!' it sealed the deal.  A decision I don't regret at all.

Although I can't share the direct experience of a 'no show', I hope this gives a little insight.  They say understanding is the largest part of the solution.

[Elen]

tbelknap,
 Meet the parents is crucial.  They need to know that their baby is going to be taken care of and that you are not an ax murder.  Support from home is a very good thing to lean on in the future.  It is always best to look for signs of her choosing you over her family and friends while you are there, because in the end, she will have to do exactly that.  No one that knows will ever tell you that it is an easy decision for them.
KenC

Did an idea that may be your concern should be not oly about HER good being and future with you but about good beeing of her parents who she's supposed to leave behinde cross somebody's mind? Or you think that it's just better to get a wife who could easy "choose you over her family"   

[ConnerVT]

Meet the parents is crucial.  They need to know that their baby is going to be taken care of and that you are not an ax murder. 

But what if you really ARE an ax murderer?   

Did an idea that may be your concern should be not oly about HER good being and future with you but about good beeing of her parents who she's supposed to leave behinde cross somebody's mind? Or you think that it's just better to get a wife who could easy "choose you over her family"

Why must these be mutually exclusive?  Even though there is a large distance (in km) between our two houses, our families are still very close.  I know other's here whom have had family visit for extended periods of time.  Many also provide significant monetary support to the family back home.

Isn't it  a parent's duty to prepare their children to move on and find their happiness?  Or are we just procreating as a source of retirement income and support?

[Elen]

But what if you really ARE an ax murderer?   

Why must these be mutually exclusive?  Even though there is a large distance (in km) between our two houses, our families are still very close.  I know other's here whom have had family visit for extended periods of time.  Many also provide significant monetary support to the family back home.

Isn't it  a parent's duty to prepare their children to move on and find their happiness?  Or are we just procreating as a source of retirement income and support?

 Is not it a children's duty to take care about their old parents and don't get their own happinest in an exchange of parents lifes - in some cases in literal sense of a word? I do know such cases as well when parents would have more longer life if they would not be left alone with their problems and money through Western Union like a manifestation of children's love   

 May be if you clarified THAT issue ( how you see a life of old parents if their children are at 1000 kms from them)  more carefuly but not only tell about how fine you would take care about only daughter you would have less problems with the said daughter who could not just choose you over her parents ( especsially if she is the only one child) Just a though as I din't see too many of your ( western's fiances) efforts in THAT derection 


Well at least you always have a choice to follow an advice of a hero of our well known movie - Жениться надо на сироте 

[ConnerVT]

There are children that live across town that are more distant from their parents than some whom live thousands of km away from them.  It depends on the character of the children in question.

No one said the discussion about helping the parents in the FSU when they get older wasn't an important issue to discuss between two people planning marriage.  But it is an issue separate (although linked) from the one being discussed in this thread.

[Elen]

There are children that live across town that are more distant from their parents than some whom live thousands of km away from them.  It depends on the character of the children in question.

Of course it's true but even in such bad case parents have more opportunity to visit grand children when they wish after all ( wich is big problem as well if they are at another side of ocean and speak at another language in addition)

No one said the discussion about helping the parents in the FSU when they get older wasn't an important issue to discuss between two people planning marriage.  But it is an issue separate (although linked) from the one being discussed in this thread.

Really? I thought you discuss here reasons why some girls change their minds at the last moment and lost a desire to move to a new country
For me a problem with parents would be one of such reasons but if you think it's not important then good luck for you But at your place foreigners I would not underestimate a role of her mom in such decission 

[BC]

Elena,

You sometimes sound so similar to my wife that if you were here I would give you a hug.

Give the guys around here half a chance..

We have often talked about the possibility of inlaws moving in sometime in the future.  In fact we are planning for it.

[tbelknap]

Did an idea that may be your concern should be not oly about HER good being and future with you but about good beeing of her parents who she's supposed to leave behinde cross somebody's mind? Or you think that it's just better to get a wife who could easy "choose you over her family"   

Elen, are you saying that children should not move to another country to start a family and be happy because they need to stay to take care of their parents?

I have no problem taking care of her parents nor mine but IMO the children need to live their life.  I fail to see how the children cannot help even though they live overseas.

[tbelknap]

Thanks everyone.  I learned a lot from this thread.

[JustPlaneCrazy]

Thanks everyone.  I learned a lot from this thread.

I had a 4 year relation with a Russian woman in Kaliningrad, I traveled back and forth many times to visit, spent much time with her parents and brother, I became part of the family.  We vacationed in Poland, Egypt and Moscow.  She has a 9 year old daughter who after 2 years was referring to me as her father.  We always had good relations with very little trouble.

She always said she would leave Russia and live in America as I can fly anywhere in the world for free, she could visit the mother land any time she wished.  All seemed great!  After 3 years we decided to get the fiancée visa (which took a year, she had to make 3 trips to Moscow to the American Embassy during that year for interviews)

After a year of much trouble with the visa, and the help of 2 Congressmen and 1 Senator, she was finally issued her visa.....from that point on, her emails came to almost a halt, she would always duck my phone calls having her daughter tell me she wasn't there. 

This was a little over a year ago, I get E-cards from her on my birthday and holidays but when I replied, she ignored my emails.

From my investigation (speaking with the daughter and parents who all speak very little English) it appears over the 4 years, she never really thought she would get a visa and that the day for her to actually come to America for real, would never come, but when it did, she freaked out and got scared.......I understand from her relatives, she actually had to be hospitalized (psychiatric) for nerves and depression.....my guess is, she did love me, wanted to come but could not leave the mother land and she snapped!  (needless to say, I was not a happy camper)

...most Russian woman I have spoke to since, can't believe she backed out.

Anyway......that's my story......

Now......I look again......

Todd
 

[PeeWee]

I'm happy that you are back on track, iPod. You were successful right up until the end but is there anything that will do different this time around?

Peewee

[Photo Guy]

Elen is right about the strong connection between a RW and her family, especially her mother. I grew up in a family of very independent personality types. At one time, we all lived in different states, ranging from California to New York. It has become the American way, to leave the 'nest' and often go to a a far away city. It's pretty common. I hadn't considered her strong connection to her family, friends, and city. And she spoke about it in an overtly independent manner.
Larisa provided more than half of the income for herself and her parents. And she was too modest to ask me to send money to her parents. Unknown to me, it became a stressful problem for her. For my future pursuits, I will try to deal with it early on. Make sure you deal with that strong connection to her home and family in the FSU.

[Elen]

Elen, are you saying that children should not move to another country to start a family and be happy because they need to stay to take care of their parents?

I have no problem taking care of her parents nor mine but IMO the children need to live their life.  I fail to see how the children cannot help even though they live overseas.

I'm saying that you must take into consideration her parents as well but not just thinking in american way that children should have their own life because that "own" life does include parents in russian way of living ( at least it's so in too many cases for to "ignore" that problem. But I can "congratulate" you if you managed to get a girl who haveing parents does not bother herself with such problems )

I don't suggest that children should cling to mom's skirts all their life I advice you to DISCUSS parent's issue ( and do it BEFORE K1 process)  and try to find good-enough solution wich would be good for BOTH sides. I advice you not assume that what YOU think would be good for parents would be enough for them in their own opinion.
As I see from many posts on such boards it's exactly what many foreigner males do . For example you personaly fail to understand that "help from overseas" ( only with money I guess because there can't be other help from such distance) is not the main problem - in my opinion it's a lack of relations, it's a absent of somebody NEXT to you when you have a need ( even if that need is just to "talk") it's growing estrange between parents and child wich is inevitable at such distance, it's "lost" of grandchildren because it's impossible to build family relations with them ( which we used to have HERE)  if you see them only 1 month per year ( in best case) - and so on  ( I leave aside a huge problem with parents wich you got when they really reach those ages when they couldn't take care about themslves anymore)

 If you know how to solve such problems at long distance I would want to know ( Ps for me personal a variant a-ka visits one time per year would not be a good solution. But that's me and you should find out what would be fine in your particular case)

 Of course you may ignoge what's there in parents' minds but then don't be surprised when you got a kick from a side you didn't expect at all 

[Todd]

This thread inspired me to thank Kate once again for giving up so much in her home country to be with me in a studio apartment in Boston. 

 (For Kate...who reads but does not respond)

[tbelknap]

As I see from many posts on such boards it's exactly what many foreigner males do . For example you personaly fail to understand that "help from overseas" ( only with money I guess because there can't be other help from such distance) is not the main problem - in my opinion it's a lack of relations, it's a absent of somebody NEXT to you when you have a need ( even if that need is just to "talk") it's growing estrange between parents and child wich is inevitable at such distance, it's "lost" of grandchildren because it's impossible to build family relations with them ( which we used to have HERE)  if you see them only 1 month per year ( in best case) - and so on  ( I leave aside a huge problem with parents wich you got when they really reach those ages when they couldn't take care about themslves anymore)

 

Thanks Elen,  you make some good points.

She wouldn't be the only one living away from family.  I would also since I plan on relocating to Australia.  So I understand what it is like to move away from family.  I do personally see the quote above because I have lived overseas and will be relocating.  I didn't mean just money but also extended visits.  Something I have done when I lived in Australia which is very far from where my parents live.  Also I would never have a problem helping her parents relocate if they wanted to.  That would but their choice.

But I still believe you have to live your life first.   

[BC]

Thanks Elen,  you make some good points.

She wouldn't be the only one living away from family.  I would also since I plan on relocating to Australia.  So I understand what it is like to move away from family.  I do personally see the quote above because I have lived overseas and will be relocating.  I didn't mean just money but also extended visits.  Something I have done when I lived in Australia which is very far from where my parents live.  Also I would never have a problem helping her parents relocate if they wanted to.  That would but their choice.

tbelknap,

You're talking about some quite complex and possibly lengthy immigration issues here.. beware.  In the beginning I was the 'get married and go get the visa' type of guy.. until I came to RW related fora and got the 'low down'.. Investigate and plan well in advance.

After we met, I spent a lot of time doing 'what if' situations in my head.  This included her and/or or my parents moving in or near somewhere down the road. Caring for elders seems to be quite 'normalna' in FSU.  We did discuss this subject and both accepted and agreed that we would just have to do 'what needed to be done' when the time comes even if it involved building a 2nd floor on our house so that the parents could live downstairs.. even if it included 'wiping butts'.

With an age difference of 17 or 18 years (depending upon which time of year) we even discusssed the probability and ramifications of my prior demise.

There are a lot of tough things involved in this quest that are maybe not apparent at the outset.. things that may not even come up when dating a local woman.

[Turboguy]

Hummm, Makes me think I should go back to chasing gals whose parents are 15 or so years younger than me.   There is more than one way to solve a problem

On a more serious not.  I think in may parts of the world, "Social Security" is the children they have.  Sometimes that becomes and incentive to have a flock of kids.

I agree, you have to lead your own life but you need to make sure the parents are taken care of when they need it.

[PeeWee]

After we met, I spent a lot of time doing 'what if' situations in my head.  This included her and/or or my parents moving in or near somewhere down the road. Caring for elders seems to be quite 'normalna' in FSU.  We did discuss this subject and both accepted and agreed that we would just have to do 'what needed to be done' when the time comes even if it involved building a 2nd floor on our house so that the parents could live downstairs.. even if it included 'wiping butts'.

I've done the what if too. Using my last three ladies two did not have parents and one had only a mother but my friend had 3 siblings and the mother already lived with one of her siblings. In my mind there would never be a Russian parent living in my home. On the other hand my mom is 87. She now needs some care. My brothers have already made it clear that they do not want her in their homes so mom lives in my home. I am like Norman Bates of Psyco fame I sometimes think.

My thinking has my RW moving in with me and mom. No other choice because I will not send mom to a nursing home. Current RW is a doctor and I do believe her as a result of her chosen profession to be a caring woman. I can see her as a big help for me in caring for my mom as mom continues on her way to the century mark. My grandma lived to be 2 months short of 100 so that posibility is in the realm of reality to be sure.

Peewee

[tbelknap]

There are a lot of tough things involved in this quest that are maybe not apparent at the outset.. things that may not even come up when dating a local woman.

Yes I see what you mean BC.  I am normally the type of person like you were.  I will figure it out when the time arrives.  I should start looking at the immigration issues.  That is probably a good idea.  I never realized how much planning there is until I came to this forum. 

[tbelknap]

On a more serious not.  I think in may parts of the world, "Social Security" is the children they have.  Sometimes that becomes and incentive to have a flock of kids.

Beats our social security system.   

[Elen]

Thanks Elen,  you make some good points.

She wouldn't be the only one living away from family.  I would also since I plan on relocating to Australia.  So I understand what it is like to move away from family.  I do personally see the quote above because I have lived overseas and will be relocating.  I didn't mean just money but also extended visits.  Something I have done when I lived in Australia which is very far from where my parents live.  Also I would never have a problem helping her parents relocate if they wanted to.  That would but their choice.

But I still believe you have to live your life first.   

You are MALE my dear and in Russian culture you males were always seen like
"cut off hunk". Attitude to daughters and sons in that matter are different here. So you can't apply your own standarts of relationship with parents to your girl

[tbelknap]

You are MALE my dear and in Russian culture you males were always seen like
"cut off hunk". Attitude to daughters and sons in that matter are different here. So you can't apply your own standarts of relationship with parents to your girl

You are right Elen. Regardless what I think it seems parents have a lot of control over their children.