How bad is racism in FSU?

[PeeWee]

My only other experience was with Luda.  She called them Black people and she was very fascinated by black people.  She thought they were wonderful and liked watching them and being around them. 

Three episodes that were very different.  My take on it is there are a lot of different sentiments there.   I think for many such as my small town gal that was example 1,  they are an unknown and sometimes people fear the unknown.   Others form their opinions on a very small sampling,  other people are intrigued by the unknown.   Yes, I think racism is worse in the FSU than some places but I think in time that will change.

The other time that I heard this bias came to me indirectly. I have a friend who is a purser with Aeroflot. Because she travels to every destination severved by Aeroflot, or has at one time, I asked her which was her favorite city. Seattle of course and Hong Kong. Not New York. I asked why not New York. "Too many blacks." Indirect racism but it was my first clue to a bias that I did not know existed.

Peewee

[BillyB]

The word that Dan and others are fumbling around is transliterated as something like 'neygrey', it only sounds like 'nigger' if one is not listening very well.

Nah, I have to agree with the other guys. My ears aren't playing tricks on me. My fiancee's brother watching music television pointed at a black man, trying to show me some of his English skills, and called him "nigger" plain as day. Russians aren't living in the dark ages, they get American music television and it's common to hear a black man use the word "nigger" in a music video. But he doesn't understand using the word "nigger" is offensive.

[Elen]

Elen, I believe Pravda isn't a western news source and it reported in April of this year that the number of hate crimes in Russia is on the increase.  After all a producer from NTV who was from Azerbaijan and the Minister of Culture from Kabardino-Balkaria republic were both recently attacked, not including the killing in St. Petersburg and a few other incidents.

Now you see I  bet your newspapers post something about whites robbed attacked and etc in some black districts  Should I be worried about  racism against whites in the west?

From my experience it's more some kind of poltic games than a racist nature of Russians. ( because actually people are not different in various towns in Russia but racist incidents are strongly stuck only to particular cities. BTW by statistic St Peter is far from leader in this "business" but mass media for some propose picture it like the worst city in Russia) 

  I don't deny that during last times when due to changes in society we got a generation of young Russians who have no good education and any good prospects in their life so all they could do is searching for somebody to blame for that and "not the same like me" is the best target. But really I don't think that Russia is more dangerous place in this matter than any other country and for sure we didn't reach a stage of street gans yet ( even in St Peter)


As for "rasism" in chosing life partner then you should not expect that too many Russians who are white-white-white  and who saw only white-white-white faces around them all their life would find attractive faces of other colors  Add to that what your own mass media write about minorities in the West and you can get a picture about chances for not-whites to find here a wife.( but they do exists for sure)   And I don't see THAT like rasism at all


PS "official" word for black rase people in Russian is NEGR ( E like in YEs) НЕГР

[andrewfi]

TG & Billy, unless I am much mistaken neither of you speak Russian. I am sure therefore that you were conversing in English. That is a different matter to talking in Russian.

I would be most unlikely to use a Russian word when talking in English, or French.
Would somebody with MTV English know the word nigger? Of course they might- duh! Would they use the word in day to day conversation in Russian? Kinda doubt it!

[Turboguy]

Andrewfin, in my case of the gal in Kiev, her English was quite good, other than the one mistake of saying clothes when she meant coat it was the only mistake in 4 days.  We were alone in a quiet room sitting next to each other.   There was no mistaking what she said.

[andrewfi]

TG ~ This IS hard work

You were talking in ENGLISH for god's sake! Nigger is an ENGLISH word. As a fully paid up member of the MTV/VIVA generation most young Russians will have heard the word in English and seen the context in which it appears in the media they see. In that context nigger is used to describe blacks but it is rarely, if ever, a pejorative.

We others were talking about a Russian word used in conversations in RUSSIAN (neygrey) and how sometimes the word nigger is used by Russians when speaking in English. In the context in which most Russians would come across the word nigger the emotional content is very different to the content it would likely carry if you used it when talking to a black neighbour - if you lived in an integrated area.

You are demonstrating yet again the confusion that occurs when one does not understand cultural context.

Probably repeating what has already been written: neygrey does not carry the same meaning as nigger. They are homonyms, not synonyms

[Turboguy]

You are right Andrewfin, this is hard work.

For the third time.  She definitely did not say Negrey.  I can go with her having picked up the word from music videos.   Frankly her coupling that word to a comment about them being stupid struck me as racist.   I can go with her not understating how the word is interpreted here.  I can go with her having little experience to base her assumptions.  I can go with her not really being a racist but wanting to find out more about a people she knew little about.   I can not go with her having really said the word Negrey.  She did not.

[Bruno]

How bad is racism in FSU?

Some press article for forge your own opinion :

Racism on the rise in Russia
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2131214.stm

Increasing racism in Russia: 16 murders in eight months
http://www.humanrightshouse.org/dllvis5.asp?id=3283

Russia is not the most tolerant place on Earth...
http://www.lexlibertas.com/lexlibertas/archives/2004/04/lotd_racism.php

Racism in Russian
http://www.mosnews.com/feature/2005/07/05/nazi.shtml

For people who will know what think Russian people over several thema, take a look at http://www.waytorussia.net/Features/RussianPeople.html ... Russian people reply to question like :
- Is there a lot of racism in Russia? Do any black people live there?
- Why are so many Russian women looking to marry a man from the west. Is this because of more money and a better life or is it that Russian men do not treat Russian women well?
- What can a man do to be liked by a Russian woman? What do Russian women respect and like the most?
- What do Russians think about Americans and other foreigners?

[andrewfi]

You are right Andrewfin, this is hard work.

For the third time.  She definitely did not say Negrey.  I can go with her having picked up the word from music videos.   Frankly her coupling that word to a comment about them being stupid struck me as racist.   I can go with her not understating how the word is interpreted here.  I can go with her having little experience to base her assumptions.  I can go with her not really being a racist but wanting to find out more about a people she knew little about.   I can not go with her having really said the word Negrey.  She did not.

God man! She was talking in English, she used an English word! Where is the big news here. If she used nigger in Russian conversation then that would be unusual. In Russia people speak Russian.
Russians racist?
Whoo Hoo! News update - Custer killed at Little Big Horn! More news at eight!

[BillyB]

TG & Billy, unless I am much mistaken neither of you speak Russian. I am sure therefore that you were conversing in English. That is a different matter to talking in Russian.

Talk about speaking Russian, read the post right above yours! Elen says "NEGR". That is sounds nowhere near as your claim Russians pronounce the word "Negrey". Andrew, you're all alone on this one. And if you read more posts, it's more than TG and I who heard the word pronounced like "nigger" in the FSU. I could agree with Elen that the "i" in nigger is pronounced like a soft "e" as used in the word "yes" but I know for a fact I didn't hear "niggrey" as you claim we are all hearing.

[Admin]

Hey,

You guys realize you are trying to illustrate the vagaries of subtle verbal communication differences by using written form - right ?!?

Think about it. Spoken Russian, interpreted by English-speakers of different persuasions (British and American), transliterated (sort of), so that it may be written in English (which may, or may not, contain the original Russian pronunciation), to convince someone of what we THINK we heard.

My point is - SO WHAT !!!!   

- Dan

[Turboguy]

My point is - SO WHAT !!!!   

- Dan

That is the best post of the thread.  Talking about things that we see in the FSU is one thing,  I can't see where our hearing test matters a whole lot.  Think what you want Andrewfin.  It is not worth taking up more time to all beat our heads against a stone wall. 

[PeeWee]

Talk about speaking Russian, read the post right above yours! Elen says "NEGR". That is sounds nowhere near as your claim Russians pronounce the word "Negrey". Andrew, you're all alone on this one. And if you read more posts, it's more than TG and I who heard the word pronounced like "nigger" in the FSU. I could agree with Elen that the "i" in nigger is pronounced like a soft "e" as used in the word "yes" but I know for a fact I didn't hear "niggrey" as you claim we are all hearing.

This is how the "eggplant" question came about. In talking, in English, yes, Andrew, Lena said "nigger" when referring to an African. She and I knew that was an English word. I asked her what Russians call Africans. She told me the Russian word. I asked her what that word ment. She said, "It means eggplant." That is all that I know about it. But I will have another discussion on the subject with her today and if I learn anything new I will report back.

To sum it  up. We agree that there is racism in Russia? That they understand the word "nigger" but that the word is more a word than a slur?

Peewee

[Maxx2]

My Russian ex-wife took this photo as we were driving back to Minnesota. It was taken while passinf through Chicago.

http://i1.tinypic.com/21ovwo8.jpg

I asked her why she took it and she said they "I not see in Russia. It  interesting".

I am a quarter Italian, have brown eyes and can get a tan. She used to call me her "N". Maybe she meant Armenian. I thought the other.

Maxx

[Leslie]

Andrew,

I think you missed my point.  Certain English words have entered common Ukrainian speech.  The French get very angry about this.  I believe they set up a government department to stop French people using phrases like "Le Weekend". 

N*gger is one of these words.  Computer (Com-Pyu-Ta) is another.  I am sure you can think of other examples if you think about it.  Russians have also adopted a lot of French words.  I am sure Bruno can give us several examples 

[Ste]

Andrew,

I think you missed my point.  Certain English words have entered common Ukrainian speech.  The French get very angry about this.  I believe they set up a government department to stop French people using phrases like "Le Weekend". 

N*gger is one of these words.  Computer (Com-Pyu-Ta) is another.  I am sure you can think of other examples if you think about it.  Russians have also adopted a lot of French words.  I am sure Bruno can give us several examples 

I seem to remember reading that French was the Russian Language of the Court and the Cool Language to speak pre-1917. I do remember seeing a pre-revolutionary pic of Moscow showing lots of posters in French. Indeed, the Russian word for 'Nightmare' is practically the French word (which I just forgot).

Ste   

[corp]

How bad is racism in FSU?

I would guess a lot less than many parts of USA.

Imagine a white Russian travels to the USA,
he winds up in an all black section of (pick your fav. city) is he more likely or less likely to be robbed, assaulted than a American black winding up in any section of Russia?

I suggest not only will he be more likely to be a victim of crime because the area has more crime but because he is white.

[SANDRO43]

I seem to remember reading that French was the Russian Language of the Court and the Cool Language to speak pre-1917.

Correct, French was the favourite language at the Imperial Court since the times of Catherine the Great (I think), with only an understandable temporary lapse in Napoleon's times, and a MUST for wealthy, educated people. 

Indeed, the Russian word for 'Nightmare' is practically the French word (which I just forgot).

The Russian word is KOSHMAR, straight from French "cauchemar". There are several other examples of such "borrowings", such as CHOSSE from "chaussée" .

[Bruno]

I think you missed my point.  Certain English words have entered common Ukrainian speech.  The French get very angry about this.  I believe they set up a government department to stop French people using phrases like "Le Weekend". 

N*gger is one of these words.  Computer (Com-Pyu-Ta) is another.  I am sure you can think of other examples if you think about it.  Russians have also adopted a lot of French words.  I am sure Bruno can give us several examples 

About French language, from one country to a other, you have some difference... Your example "computer" is used in Belgium but in France, they say "ordinateur"...

Now, about russian words comming from other language :
- "аптека" in Russian / "apotheek" in Dutch...
- "клиника" in Russian / "clinique" in French / "clinic" in English...
- "библиотека" in Russian / "bibliotheek" in Dutch / "bibliothèque" in French
...

If your know one Latin based language, one german based language and you are able to read Russian alphabet, you will understand a lot of word without problem...

[coco]

butterbrody-butterbrot-German
peruckmacka-perueckenmacher-hairdresser-German
platzkart-platzkarte-access to the train-German
schamp de mine-champ de mines-mines field.french
alfons-alphonse-pimp-french

[Manny]

- "аптека" in Russian / "apotheek" in Dutch...

Would this be an Apteek ie; a Pharmacy?

[Bruno]

Would this be an Apteek ie; a Pharmacy?

Yes, apteka, or Pharmacy in English...

Some people on these forum seem to think that i know Russian...  I know almost nothing in Russian but i know 3 other language and i am beginner in a few other... and all this help for russian... i think that every Westerm men need to know cyrillic alphabeth... once somebody know how to read and how are the sound of each letter, all wil become more easy...

[Manny]

Curious point.......

Apteeka is Pharmacy in Estonian which is FSU but an ergo Finnish language! (Andrewfi is your man on Estonia!)

I recall it is Apteek in Russian? аптеек or similar?

I have learned most of cyrillic, basic Russian language and have a smattering of german and dutch - I agree that basic LAtin and other language knowledge gets you the odd surprise in what is similar when you analyse it!

[PeeWee]

I said that I would get back to you on the "eggplant" reference to Africans. The Russian word sounds, to me, like baklazhon. It was explained to me that it might be a French word but that it does mean "eggplant." баклажан

The word is used not within hearing distance of an African which means that it is probably not a good word to use in their presence. Further I asked my friend about racism in Russia. To which she replied, "There is no racism in Russia. It's just that we feel that our race is the best race." That is but one woman's opinion mind you. Each of us has our own opinion. Her explaination sounds racist to me. You can draw your own conclusions.

There you have it.

Peewee

[BC]

Further I asked my friend about racism in Russia. To which she replied, "There is no racism in Russia. It's just that we feel that our race is the best race." That is but one woman's opinion mind you. Each of us has our own opinion. Her explaination sounds racist to me. You can draw your own conclusions.

Matches my experience.