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Author Topic: Russia vs The World  (Read 2748 times)

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Offline JayH

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Russia vs The World
« on: September 17, 2018, 03:12:39 AM »
  Everyday see a new atrocity commit ed by Russia or Russians as the Putin agenda seeks to destabilise what ought to be the good world order.
From the time Putin was reelected in 2012 the Kremlin has set out on it's agenda --in simple terms- to destabilise the western world.
It became obvious enough with the Russian invasion of Ukraine  on the Crimea and subsequently eastern Ukraine , the shooting down of MH17 and the extensive associated propaganda campaigns that have spewed fake news and disinformation across the world.
Putin's dream of causing chaos in the US has been incredibly successful and resulted in Trump getting elected  and the subsequent mayhem unleashed on the established good world order has Putin and his Kremlin cronies laughing at the absurdity of the goings on in America.
More recently-we have seen the total disrespect for life with the murders in the UK -- and attempts elsewhere as Russia seeks to intimidate all and sundry

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO STOP RUSSIA?
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 09:14:34 AM »
I believe you mean - what can be done to stop the current incumbents in the Kremlin?.. as Russians probably didn't elect VVP at the level claimed

Offline JayH

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 10:46:39 PM »
Another example of the total disrespect for the truth -- and Russian attempts  to avoid culpability.
What happened at the winter Olympics with the drug samples substitution, with MH17 and the ongoing attempts to strike at the core of the investigation  are just a few examples of how little respect Russia has for a rule of law.

The obvious immediately larger examples of Russia being prepared to do nearly anything ,anywhere to achieve it's aims  -- so the question is what should be done?


Swiss Confirm Russians Tried To Hack Lab Analyzing Skripal Samples

The Swiss government has confirmed reports that Dutch authorities had arrested and expelled two suspected Russian spies earlier this year after the two allegedly tried to hack a Swiss laboratory that conducts chemical weapons tests.

Switzerland summoned the Russian ambassador to protest an “attempted attack” as Moscow rejected the allegations, the latest Western claim about Russian spying and other acts of interference.

This time, the alleged target was the Spiez Laboratory, which analyzed samples from the March poisoning of former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in England.


http://www.rferl.org/a/swiss-confirm-russians-tried-to-hack-lab-analyzing-skripal-samples/29491589.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2018, 12:32:10 AM »
More of the nonsense Russia promotes is evident today as Russia offers up another 'explanation" of who shot down MH 17.
As long as the west allows all this Russian BS air space it is not going to end.

Russian-controlled ‘Donbas republic’ accuses Ukraine & USA of killing militant leader Zakharchenko

It was to be expected that both the ‘DPR’ and Moscow would blame Kyiv for Zakharchenko’s killing.  Russia’s Investigative Committee even initiated a criminal investigation under Article 361 § 3 of Russia’s criminal code (international terrorism) with the Committee noting that “such actions are also aimed against the interests of the Russian Federation in the sphere of countering terrorism”.  TASS reported that Russian security service [FSB] officials had been sent to ‘help in the investigation’, which they  did by stating as early as 3 September that the SBU was probably behind it.

The problems with the ‘Ukrainian hand in it’ version were evident from the outset, given the maximum security around Zakharchenko and the placing of the bomb.  Kommersant reported a day after the killing that the culprits were being sought among those around Zakharchenko.

http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1537228744
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2018, 11:06:53 PM »

Currently --Russia is attempting an illegal blockade of the Sea of Azov . It is an opportunity for the west to cut the Russians down to size -- by enforcing the law and free access to the Azov Sea.

Ukraine does not have the firepower to go this alone currently -- but is easily  with Nato and specifically the US capability to support Ukraine in forcing the issue.

The fact is that Putin has staked his future on controlling Ukraine - and so far has got away with whatever he has done. The sooner the west starts to push back Russia -the better it will be for everyone.
I have said many times over the last 4 years that Ukraine has the manpower ( now the largest army in Europe) but needs  high-tec technical help--something that is relatively easy for the US to assist with.

Putin and his Kremlin kleptocracy only understand one thing ---  strength -- the powerful rule the world. Obama allowed Russia to walk all over the US -- and Trump has basically continued on that path-- and even worse is his incapability of criticising Putin  & Russia and is more interested in his personal sf interest and cosying up to Russia.
Very few in the US intelligence or military agree with either of those Presidents on what should be done - and the longer Putin keeps getting away with all the indiscretions being committed by Russia the harder and bigger will be the events required to stop them.

This is the type of exercise that I believe should be expanded .

US Air Force to join large-scale aviation exercise in Ukraine

The U.S. Air Force and eight other nations will participate next month in independent Ukraine’s largest aviation exercise, which aims to promote regional security and improve that country’s cooperation with NATO members, the military said Tuesday.

Announcement of the Clear Sky multinational exercise comes days after Ukraine said it would establish a new naval base along the Sea of Azov to counter a more assertive Russia.

The U.S. plans to send about 450 personnel from bases in the States and in Europe, a U.S. Air Forces in Europe spokesman said Tuesday. About 250 will participate in the exercise, including pilots and maintainers; the remainder will be in support roles.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us-air-force-to-join-large-scale-aviation-exercise-in-ukraine-1.548021
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2018, 01:26:05 AM »
Ukraine - the largest army in Europe ? ...

Hmm,

Not that having the largest army means ANYTHING  - as kit, training, military tactics and the element of surprise are FAR more important - but let's 'indulge' you ..

Russia's population crosses Europe and Asia and it's standing army is four times that of Ukraine...   As it is THE most likely combatant Ukraine is likely to engage - your 'statistic' seems churlish

Are you suggesting Ukraine will be able to retake Crimea and E.Ukraine territories by force of arms ?

Frankly, I cannot envisage such an action  - what time period would you like to put on such an assertion and will it result in territory gained or lost before cessation of hostilities ?





Offline JayH

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2018, 01:49:14 AM »
It is acknowledged as the largest .
If you think Russia -- contemplate how diversified it is .
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2018, 02:39:20 AM »
It is acknowledged as the largest .
If you think Russia -- contemplate how diversified it is .

OK, so you seek to hide behind the shirts of other foolish folk ..

So the Russian army is 800k plus and the UA just over 200K ( 2018 figures ) - what is the Euro-Asia split re Russia's population ?

It's a silly 'stat' you've posted and it is noted you're ducking my questions re UA using their 'numbers'


Offline JayH

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2018, 03:25:13 AM »
I saw an analysis in the last few days that reached the conclusion I stated.
Before bothering to dispute it you need to think of how far geographically Russian forces are stretched -- but it is improbable that they can bring all attention onto Ukraine at any given time.
My comments-- were in effect-- with help from the west- Ukraine has enough ground troops -- and with  what is now 4 years of training and war practice in the field Ukraine has a very strong base now.
Can it take on the Russians?
With help- yes-they have already proven that.
Will they? Another question altogether. Fact is- right now-- the priority is to improve conditions in Ukraine  - that can be the most important way to place pressure on Putin and Russia.
It ought to be obvious to blind Freddy-- that the current climate in the US leadership does not create the right vibe for Ukraine to do any more right now.


Ukraine's Military Is Back


t is indisputable that the main criterion for assessing the armed forces of any country is its ability to effectively perform tasks under wartime conditions. Nevertheless, the ability to use the defense budget as efficiently as possible can be an equally important way of assessment—when each unit of investment can achieve the greatest possible positive net effect. This approach is especially useful to understand the changes that have taken place in Ukraine’s armed forces since 2014.


http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/ukraines-military-back-24674




SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2018, 03:33:15 AM »

It ought to be obvious to blind Freddy-- that the current climate in the US leadership does not create the right vibe for Ukraine to do any more right now.

Indeed I 'missed' when Obama or any other western nation rushed to help in 2014 ... 

Given the now questionable track record of the UA govt to handle the basic question of region Oligarchy power ... I don't see the west aiding any action from UA to reclaim territory - but defending any further incursion - perhaps that's another matter


Offline JayH

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British troops in Ukraine to stop Russia '
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2018, 05:20:46 AM »

Story  contains much of what is going on and What Ukraine needs to stop Russia


Gavin Williamson commits extra British troops in Ukraine to stop Russia 'reversing Cold War outcome'

“What you’ve seen is an independent free nation that has been attacked by a powerful neighbour and we’ve seen men and women come together to repel that invasion and push back those that would wish to do them harm,” he told the Telegraph, accompanying him on the visit. 

“Vladimir Putin and his cronies around him want to abuse their power. This is not the type of behaviour we expect of any nation, let alone one that sits as a permanent member of the Security Council. [Russia is becoming] a pariah nation.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/20/gavin-williamson-commits-extra-british-troops-ukraine-stop-russia/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2018, 08:18:31 AM »
Oh yeah...100 British soldiers are training the UA boys nowhere near the front....some 'help'....

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2018, 08:42:59 AM »
Who says they'll be nowhere near the front ?

Commando's are not known for staying away from the action.


The very nature of how they operate would suggest they'll be hands-on in training Ukrainian troops at the front-line....
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 08:50:55 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2018, 09:48:04 AM »
Who says they'll be nowhere near the front ?

Commando's are not known for staying away from the action.


The very nature of how they operate would suggest they'll be hands-on in training Ukrainian troops at the front-line....

MY source and the locations - being away from the front line - is the ,gov.uk / MoD websites ....

past :http://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-extends-training-of-ukrainian-armed-forces


     
 


       http://www.contracts.mod.uk/blog/uk-relationship-with-ukraine-strengthened-by-defence-agreement/

Plus the US are training in WESTERN Ukraine, too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-32827216/russia-upset-over-us-training-ukraine-soldiers
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 11:52:48 AM by msmob »

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2018, 10:04:30 AM »
Clicked on the links and it comes up "page not found "

The only link that worked was about US ARMY soldiers training Ukrainian troops more than three years ago..not Commando's and things have changed since then.
Just saying it like it is.

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2018, 11:53:59 AM »
Sorry - my error

You believe 100 UK troops are on the front line in Ukraine ? !

Offline JayH

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2018, 07:02:12 PM »
Who says they'll be nowhere near the front ?

Commando's are not known for staying away from the action.


The very nature of how they operate would suggest they'll be hands-on in training Ukrainian troops at the front-line....
Regardless of what some of our experts about everything here on the forum believes  the posts only keep proving ignorance :)

The fact is that while these troops are not being sent to the frontline to fight - BUT --  they and significant other countries  had-- and have military  "observers" right at the coal face.
Their purpose is to help,teach & train Ukrainians -- and the very important fact is that has been a 2 way street. Western military have grown to have tremendous respect for the Ukrainian troops -- and what they have achieved with the resources they have had.In joint military exercises with Nato countries- much was learnt from  the Ukrainians .

Originally -- a few years back -the emphasis was on getting large numbers up to steam as fast as possible  -- and large numbers of American,Canadian, UK ( & more)military trainers made a huge difference to the faster flow of personal to the front line.The whole Ukrainian military structure has been modernised in the last 4 years.Now the emphasis on specialised training eg this news above re British Commandos.

 One of the very important things in 2014/2015 was the presence of "foreigners" around the frontline --it had a big impact on morale for Ukrainians to know that the world did care( at least some of the world) . In the early days after the invasion in the east it was largely ad hoc foreign "volunteers"-- many in fighting with Azov ,but also in logistics,medical and humanitarian aid.Add media to that too !

Later came uniformed western military observers . After MH 17 was shot down with 38 Australians amongst the 298 murdered- a furious Australian Government  sent the most serious SAS into Ukraine to assess what they could do- at that time they believed an escalation was imminent.They were ready.

I do not think there is one westerner involved in anything I have written about here and seen it first hand -- that does not believe the west should be doing a lot more to stop Russia --it is the political masters in the west that still do not "get" it.



One of the by products of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is something I wrote about 4 years ago  -that is that  the 'war" industry would help Ukraine economically is a perverse way. It forced Ukraine to start manufacturing armaments(again) on a large scale and re activating many neglected industries .Now- many Ukrainian companies are selling and providing goods & services around the world .
Not having access to the best of the western hardware has seen considerable development of new weapons.

Ukraine tests new highly effective Ukrainian-made weapons, military equipment



The upgraded ZU-23-2 was also tested. "Combining this robust anti-aircraft system with an electronic system for automatic target detection and fire control will securely eliminate air and land targets, including UAVs on Russia's armament," he said. "An important part of this modernization is the ability, thanks to an automatic system, to direct fire from several anti-aircraft systems simultaneously at a distance, from protected positions, without endangering the lives of our servicemen," Turchynov added. New ammunition of Ukrainian production was also demonstrated and tested at the proving ground, in particular, RS-80 missiles suitable for use in various applications, and a high-explosive fragmenting projectile for the popular MT-12 "Rapira" guns. "All the new tested developments of the Ukrainian defense-industrial complex have demonstrated their high efficiency, and after taking them on armament, they will considerably strengthen our military potential," Turchynov said.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/10269759-ukraine-tests-new-highly-effective-ukrainian-made-weapons-military-equipment-turchynov.html
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2018, 12:20:30 AM »
Regardless of what some of our experts about everything here on the forum believes  the posts only keep proving ignorance :)

I'm 'sorry' - I 'missed' when  / where you proved my correct info as to where the UK troops - who are training - UA personnel are stationed / operating in Ukraine ..

You have a nasty little habit of questioning folks statements with zip to demonstrate to the contrary .....



Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2018, 04:17:46 AM »
Moby,

          The new links you provided are from last year...and have no relevance to Commando's...or Williamson.


You do realize Fallon is no longer Defence Secretary ?

Williamson has been VERY outspoken about his feelings about Russian aggression since becoming Defence Secretary..as i said before things are changing...he himself actually went to the front line.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 04:38:09 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2018, 04:31:28 AM »
Moby,

          The new links you provided are from last year...and have no relevance to Commando's.


You do realize Fallon is no longer Defence Secretary ?

Do you think Gavin Williamson has changed UK policy on Ukraine  ?

He flew to EASTERN UKRAINE in a Mil Mi-8 (Hip) ..NOT a UK helicopter ...  could that be a clue ? 

'Our' presence was training  in the West of the country and will now be a few Royal Marines training out of Odessa

Can you think of the 'propaganda' the Kremlin would gain if a western soldier ended up captured ? ..


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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2018, 04:40:08 AM »
Yes I do think Williamson has changed UK policy toward Russia..along with the events in Salisbury.


As for propaganda..who cares about that when Russia continues denying involvement in eastern Ukraine..despite Russian soldiers being killed and captured there LOL.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 04:43:47 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2018, 04:43:41 AM »
Yes I do think Williamson has changed UK policy toward Russia..along with the events in Salisbury.

Including UK troops in eastern Ukraine ? !

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2018, 04:44:50 AM »
Yes..now prove otherwise...and not with old links.
Just saying it like it is.

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2018, 04:49:23 AM »
Yes..now prove otherwise...and not with old links.

OMG - ANOTHER internet 'idiot' that asks ME to prove an assertion they don't agree with

Do you seriously think the MoD

1/ would confirm either way

2/ would risk a UK military personnel being captured by the 'rebels' / Russians ?


Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: Russia vs The World
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2018, 04:52:02 AM »
Ahhh..this is where Moby starts his well-known deflection tactics when his argument doesn't stack up .Throw some insults around,stamps his feet..the Moby MO .


LOL.
Just saying it like it is.

 

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