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Author Topic: Crimea bombing shooting?  (Read 1326 times)

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Online msmob

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Crimea bombing shooting?
« on: October 17, 2018, 05:25:15 AM »
This news is 15 mins old

Crimea bloodbath: Attack on college involved masked gunmen shooting at people, witnesses tell RT http://www.rt.com/news/441495-crimea-attack-shooting-witnesses/

I am mindful it could be mistaken...

Online msmob

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 06:37:24 AM »
posted addl info that was in error


Offline JayH

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 10:43:45 PM »

After the initial Russian reaction was to blame Ukraine and Ukrainians was seen to be wrong ( a lie) the next move was to blame anyone else-- but Russia !

 Russian President Vladimir Putin has claimed that the attack on Kerch Technical College, and the deaths by now of 21 people, most of them teenagers, was the result of ‘globalization’ and failure everywhere to properly react to changing conditions in the world.

 It is a convenient line to take, as it places the responsibility outside Russia and his regime, while justifying further state intervention to provide the allegedly missing “necessary, interesting and useful content for young people”.

  It is not a view shared by many people who have watched with concern the mounting militarization of Crimean society in general, and children in particular, under Russian occupation.  While we do not know, and perhaps never will, what went on in the head of 18-year-old Vladislav Roslyakov before he went on his killing rampage, the atmosphere in Crimea and the attitude to war and weapons have certainly changed alarmingly since Russia’s invasion and annexation in early 2014.


Kerch massacre was about militarization of Russian-occupied Crimea & aggression, not ‘globalization’ as Putin claims

   
Russian President Vladimir Putin has claimed that the attack on Kerch Technical College, and the deaths by now of 21 people, most of them teenagers, was the result of ‘globalization’ and failure everywhere to properly react to changing conditions in the world.  It is a convenient line to take, as it places the responsibility outside Russia and his regime, while justifying further state intervention to provide the allegedly missing “necessary, interesting and useful content for young people”.   It is not a view shared by many people who have watched with concern the mounting militarization of Crimean society in general, and children in particular, under Russian occupation.  While we do not know, and perhaps never will, what went on in the head of 18-year-old Vladislav Roslyakov before he went on his killing rampage, the atmosphere in Crimea and the attitude to war and weapons have certainly changed alarmingly since Russia’s invasion and annexation in early 2014.

Well-known Crimean Tatar journalist and initiator of the civic initiative Bizim Balalar [Our Children] which provides help to the children of Crimean political prisoners, wrote a comment about the tragedy, accompanied by real photos of children being taught to use weapons, wearing military uniforms and taking part in militarized stage performances.  She writes:

“In my subjective opinion, what happened in Kerch is the result of the total militarization of children’s consciousness which has been inculcated in Crimea over recent years. All of these exhibitions of military technology on the central squares of cities where children are put on anti-aircraft guns and taught how to use a machine gun; these ‘patriotic’ children’s photo sessions with weapons in their arms; all these children’s militarized relays and parades under army patronage. You wonder what is in the minds of the people who give children ‘toys’ to hold that are designed to kill”

The Crimean Human Rights Group and other NGOs have long warned of dangerous levels of war propaganda and the deliberate militarization of public awareness. Children are particularly targeted in the campaign of disinformation, aimed at stirring up enmity towards Ukraine and glorifying war in Crimean schools. There has been mounting focus on so-called ‘military – patriotic’ education in Russian since Vladimir Putin came to power, with Russia now aggressively and illegally trying to foist this on occupied Crimea.  The so-called ‘military-patriotic’ education involves wearing military uniform and learning how to use firearms.  The idea is inculcated of victory in war with the help of armed conflict.  The Crimean Human Rights Group has repeatedly warned that such activities are aimed at legitimizing Russia’s occupation of Crimea and the brutal, sometimes murderous, activities of the armed paramilitaries who worked together with Russian soldiers to secure control of the peninsula.  It is also part of Russia’s attempts to push conscription and serving in the occupiers’ army.  Almost exactly one year before the massacre, Russia’s recruitment campaign in Kerch was accompanied by an exhibition of military technology, with children encouraged to play on tanks, etc.

There is aggressive glorification of the Second World War, and war generally, with a fashion emerging over the last two years for children’s ‘military parades’ and uniforms even for infants.


http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1539917059&fbclid=IwAR0_xXMA1eGgsjvi0Wqj-hDsH0fEpRSuPQNy8OSsD2CX9UfSuSOiuDlmMBI
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Russian security forces behind mass murder in Kerch ?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 12:40:28 AM »


Ukraine is alive with rumours , theories & speculation of the many unanswered questions.

Without knowing anything more than media reports-- my instinct is that even the Russians were quick to discount blaming Ukraine for the massacre -- so in a perverse way it makes me tend to think that what it appears--is what it is . Certainly without real evidence of something else - that is where I am landing for the present.

"The experts note multiple inconsistencies in reports, including the fact that the alleged attacker, who "committed suicide" at the scene, could not have gunned down so many victims without assistance, the experts say, explaining their point in the report."



Russian security forces behind mass murder in Kerch  ?




The chain of Putin’s crimes committed for the sake of PR continues: the bombings of residential blocks in Moscow in 1999 and fortunately foiled explosions in Ryazan, the killing of schoolchildren in Beslan in 2004 — and now, in 2018, the mass murder in the Russia-occupied Ukrainian Crimea's Kerch, where once again many children were killed.

 Russian occupation forces had long and seriously trained the alleged attacker, a local student Vladislav Roslyakov, to handle firearms, according to the Information Resistance OSINT community.

 He completed the latest training cycle a week before the Kerch tragedy, during the “patriotic education” classes in the famous Artek camp.
 The standard training program of the “Russian patriot” included live fire exercises as well as classes on mining and explosives. However, Roslyakov arrived at Artek, having been already sufficiently prepared and trained.

 Such training routine was not something exceptional, invented exclusively for Roslyakov. The militarization of youths in the occupied Crimea has become massive and mandatory.

 http://www.unian.info/politics/10307409-osint-group-suggests-russian-security-forces-behind-mass-murder-in-kerch.html?fbclid=IwAR254v1jJMDqiDYyxIbFpT1v2n-Ufk7DesfqYWQHjqO0r8Nqx2FO9PFZUWI
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online krimster2

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 07:11:09 AM »
Roslyakov' s nickname was "Reich", should paint a picture of his personality, does it not?
there is a big "constriction" in Crimea because of the Russian occupation
the economy is in tatters, water rationing, Russian military visible everywhere, ESPECIALLY up north
fertile ground for breeding this type of thing
but Putin sayz "eta Amerika"
and Russia needs to block American internet
whatever the problem in Russia
eta Amerika
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2018, 08:07:11 AM »

 

Kerch massacre was about militarization of Russian-occupied Crimea & aggression, not ‘globalization’ as Putin claims

   


“In my subjective opinion, what happened in Kerch is the result of the total militarization of children’s consciousness which has been inculcated in Crimea over recent years. All of these exhibitions of military technology on the central squares of cities where children are put on anti-aircraft guns and taught how to use a machine gun; these ‘patriotic’ children’s photo sessions with weapons in their arms; all these children’s militarized relays and parades under army patronage. You wonder what is in the minds of the people who give children ‘toys’ to hold that are designed to kill”


There is aggressive glorification of the Second World War, and war generally, with a fashion emerging over the last two years for children’s ‘military parades’ and uniforms even for infants.


http://khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1539917059&fbclid=IwAR0_xXMA1eGgsjvi0Wqj-hDsH0fEpRSuPQNy8OSsD2CX9UfSuSOiuDlmMBI


Every country cultivates patriotism of its people. The US does it better than others.The USSR was big on patriotic education of children, but in 1990s it has completely stopped and the whole generation of young people who are in their 30s right now does not have patriotic ideas instilled in them. So its not aggressive glorification of WW2.  Its an attempt to reinstate patriotic education of citizens.


About Kerch massacre. Everybody tends to forget about REGULAR school massacres in this country. Not a year passes by that we read about shootings in schools here and there. Some tend to think that its because of weapons availability to people. I tend to disagree. This isabout,  militarization of the USA & aggression to everybody in the world. (Lets not forget NATO's invasion of Iraq in 2003 under false pretension and there is a long list of prior invasions too. Lets not forget it all before we pass judgement on other countries.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 08:09:07 AM by Donna_Pedro »
Kaplah!

Online DaveNY

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2018, 08:49:43 AM »

Every country cultivates patriotism of its people. The US does it better than others.The USSR was big on patriotic education of children, but in 1990s it has completely stopped and the whole generation of young people who are in their 30s right now does not have patriotic ideas instilled in them. So its not aggressive glorification of WW2.  Its an attempt to reinstate patriotic education of citizens.


'

When I was in Moscow at the beginning of the century there was no lack of nationalism among the younger adults. I knew a few black guys that had been born in Moscow, their parents were from Africa, and they told stories of being attacked by ultra nationalists. Go to a soccer game then and now, especially if the game is against a foreign club, and the nationalism is very apparent. IMO nationalism is Russia has definitely grown under Putin.

Saw the Omon in action a couple of times. I was told by the locals if you see the Omon getting out of their trucks, stop and get out of the area immediately. They don't care who they beat up or arrest, foreigner or local it's all the same to them.   

Online krimster2

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2018, 09:21:48 AM »
so “eta Amerika” once more?

well, I don’t think so, not so fast there Russki!

thanks in a small part to the “wise” efforts of Maria Butina (the one now sitting in jail next to Paul Manafort in the USA for her interference in US elections through the NRA), the Russian Federation eased restrictions and allowed easier access to firearms in 2014

in 2014 she collected 100,000 signatures petitioning the government to pass pro-firearm legislation “guaranteeing” private ownership of firearms without police interference

it’s under this law, that allowed a psychotic individual with all necessary paperwork, which after all is just rubber-stamped to walk into a sporting goods store and purchase an avtomat shotgun

according to Russian Federation law if “Reich” had the necessary paperwork, the local Police are legally instructed that they MUST issue him a weapons permit, even if they know he is a far-right faschista (i know, i know, they only have those in Kyiv and NOT Russia) and exhibits signs of delusional paranoia on-line

what could possibly go wrong with giving a crazy person a gun?

well.. shoulda learned from Amerika about that - happens every month here!

America good at teaching Patriotism?
ONLY patriotic instruction I ever had was repeating the “Pledge of Allegiance” up to 6th grade
that’s it!  the 20 sec it took to slowly repeat it somehow failed to turn me into a fascist

Russia has “Nasi”, that name sounds familiar for some reason (Putin-Jugend!)
Молодежное демократическое aнтифашистское движение «Наши», Molodezhnoye demokraticheskoye antifashistskoye dvizhenye

organization reports directly to and swears loyalty to Putin
supposed to be anti-fascist, anti-oligarch
but remember in Russia “Up” is “Down"
and “Black” is “White”
"all truths are relative"
and in Russia one oligarch rules them all

in addition, Putin has a set up a new National Guard in Russia
that is headed by his body guard, and the new guard reports directly to Putin

you haven’t been in Crimea I take it?
I lived there three yr and last visited less than three months ago
my wife spent her childhood there
this was her first trip post annexation
when she saw how far Crimea has sunk under Russian control
and the stress her family faces trying to survive there now
in the new glorious Russian economy
she had tears in her eyes

so again, be REAL, OK?

I have been in the Artek training camp where Reich received his patriotic education
saw what they taught/brainwashed them
also been to a much worse training camp in Belbeck
that trains kids like Reich to be in a “shock battalion”
whose purpose is to secretly enter Ukraine and perform major acts of terrorism and sabotage

in August I saw massive amounts of heavy weapons being unloaded in Sevastopol
loaded onto trucks that headed to Simferopol and then on a train up to Kerch!!

all for pooty poot and to keep him in power!!!


« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 09:51:01 AM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2018, 10:30:40 AM »
'

When I was in Moscow at the beginning of the century there was no lack of nationalism among the younger adults. I knew a few black guys that had been born in Moscow, their parents were from Africa, and they told stories of being attacked by ultra nationalists. Go to a soccer game then and now, especially if the game is against a foreign club, and the nationalism is very apparent. IMO nationalism is Russia has definitely grown under Putin.

Saw the Omon in action a couple of times. I was told by the locals if you see the Omon getting out of their trucks, stop and get out of the area immediately. They don't care who they beat up or arrest, foreigner or local it's all the same to them.


I disagree. My child went to school in 90s. When the system collapsed, so did all those system-led junior patriotic organizations - pioneers, comsomol (young communist league), who were in charge of patriotic education of kids in the USSR. My son's class was lucky to have a teacher who actually participated in WW2 as a medical nurse so she took it upon herself to keep up  patriotic education of her students.


I am glad that our current President is trying to re-establish patriotic education of the population.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 10:33:42 AM by Donna_Pedro »
Kaplah!

Online krimster2

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2018, 10:44:21 AM »
"I am glad that our current President is trying to re-establish patriotic education of the population."

please specify who you mean by "our current President " Putin or Trump?
I mean, a Russian referring to Trump as "our president"
might get misunderstood
even though it's TRUE!
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:03:29 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Offline JayH

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Re: Crimea bombing shooting?
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2018, 02:15:52 AM »
There has been considerable speculation in Ukraine over the confused Russian reports of this tragedy. Of particular interest was the actual weapons that caused so many deaths . This story is certainly plausible and given the Russian incapability of telling the truth it is likely to be some time for corroboration.
It would be funny ( Russian security shooting at Russian security !)  if the tragic consequences were not a reality for so many innocent victims.


Ukrainian prosecutors take note of new data on Kerch College shooting

"According to the operational data of the Information Resistance-Crimea group, on October 17, at the very beginning of the tragic events in the Russian-occupied Crimea, with the involvement of an 18-year-old 4th year college student Vladislav Roslyakov, a special forces group arrived at the site of the tragedy (presumably, the Russian Guard or a GRU military intelligence unit deployed in Crimea)," reads Tymchuk's report.
 Read also OSINT group suggests Russian security forces behind mass murder in Kerch At the same time, a group of operatives from the Kerch FSB Department also arrived and took special forces troops for terrorists and opened fire at them.
 During a brief fire exchange between FSB operatives and special forces (GRU or Russian Guard), the latter retreated into the college building, where they barricaded themselves in the nearest room. At the same time, the FSB officers continued to "shoot to kill" in the direction of the college, the report says.
 Also, the IS-Crimea group's sources claim that it was two explosions of different magnitude rocked the college building, while most of the dead and injured were hit from rifled firearms, not a shotgun which Roslyakov carried and fired. At a certain stage, "the organizers of the terrorist act realized that the developments did not go according to the scenario, the executor got out of control, so he had to be physically eliminated at the facility, rather than after taking him to the earlier appointed location, not to let him be killed or wounded by the FSB or police.
 That is why the “liquidation team” was deployed into the college." "This explains the initial stupor of Russian propaganda, which at the outset received no clear instructions on how to cover the incident.
This also explains the confusion of the versions that were voiced and changed on the fly, of which the experts have already taken note," the report reads.

 http://www.unian.info/society/10314219-ukrainian-prosecutors-take-note-of-new-data-on-kerch-college-shooting-revealed-by-osint-group.html?fbclid=IwAR15fLSUUsfoRe0Q7GP_UoedDeVyY8AsuTuGeoJS45gxE2x2CoIKdZkSxeY
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

 

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