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Author Topic: Children making the transition to the New World ......  (Read 4903 times)

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Online jone

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Children making the transition to the New World ......
« on: October 17, 2018, 05:34:32 PM »
I know of a woman who is dating a man from the US and has a son who is around the third grade age.  She is stymied in her relationship because she feels that a Russian education is better for her son - particularly the discipline and the amount of education received at these younger ages.  She believes that she cannot move to the US because of this differential.

If any readers have anecdotal evidence one way or the other, or have married an FSUW and moved a stepchild to the US, I would be happy to pass it on.   

I think it is a topic that merits discussion.
Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

Online DaveNY

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 06:21:54 PM »
My wife taught high school in Russia and is of the opinion that discipline in Russian schools is better than in the public schools in the US. However, even she agrees that overall, if you can find the right school, an American education is superior in knowledge imparted to the student even in the younger grades. Once it comes to university there's no doubt an American education is better than Russian.

How good the local American school is will depend on where she lives in the US and whether or not her son's school is public or private. If she moves to Detroit or St. Louis and her son ends up in a public school, good luck. A private school in NYC and he should do well. Her son's biggest problem will probably be his adjustment to learning in English. With some extra help he should adjust.



Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2018, 07:06:45 AM »
Hi everybody. I do agree with the idea that russian schools are better. THere is indeed more discipline at schoold there and yes, the workload is usually  far more demanding. In russia, a good school education  comes mostly without efforts. All you need to do  is  pick a good school,  and after that its autopilot. They dont care if you dont want calculus 2, you are going to take it. I am an accountant. I do not take integrals at work, but funny thing,  a couple of years ago  I held a small masterclass for the company project managers on how to calculate profit based on %. It all started with a phone call from one of the PMs - Irina, you are smart,  can you calculate the 12% profit of  my $8 mil project.. Seriousely? Well, I never loved math in school.. Neither did I.  A few people with  university degrees turned up to listen to an accountant teach them basic math. My child came to the US at 13 yo and went straight to 8th grade. Me and my husband applied effort to keep him challenged at school. Schools faught back defending the child's right to be a dumb a....Still,  I am sure if a person is  interested to provide a good eduacation to her (his) child,  its very  doable. It will require a lot of effors, money too, but at the end there are better rewards.
Kaplah!

Online Maxx2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 09:39:18 AM »
Hi everybody. I do agree with the idea that russian schools are better. THere is indeed more discipline at schoold there and yes, the workload is usually  far more demanding. In russia, a good school education  comes mostly without efforts. All you need to do  is  pick a good school,  and after that its autopilot. They dont care if you dont want calculus 2, you are going to take it. I am an accountant. I do not take integrals at work, but funny thing,  a couple of years ago  I held a small masterclass for the company project managers on how to calculate profit based on %. It all started with a phone call from one of the PMs - Irina, you are smart,  can you calculate the 12% profit of  my $8 mil project.. Seriousely? Well, I never loved math in school.. Neither did I.  A few people with  university degrees turned up to listen to an accountant teach them basic math. My child came to the US at 13 yo and went straight to 8th grade. Me and my husband applied effort to keep him challenged at school. Schools faught back defending the child's right to be a dumb a....Still,  I am sure if a person is  interested to provide a good eduacation to her (his) child,  its very  doable. It will require a lot of effors, money too, but at the end there are better rewards.


Hi Donna, Maxx here! I was just thinking about you. I almost mentioned you in my thread about living an expat life in the Republic of Georgia. We were discussing past posters.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22265.0

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2018, 10:49:35 AM »
Glad to see you are still around. How is everything?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 10:51:19 AM by Donna_Pedro »
Kaplah!

Online Maxx2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2018, 11:08:02 AM »



I am very happy! I have conquered my type 2 diabetes through a Keto diet and am feeling really good. I have energy I haven't had in years. Also I am working on some business ideas that are a lot of fun for me.


So how is Danny? And you? Are you still in Florida? Bamma? 

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2018, 11:16:53 AM »


I am very happy! I have conquered my type 2 diabetes through a Keto diet and am feeling really good. I have energy I haven't had in years. Also I am working on some business ideas that are a lot of fun for me.


So how is Danny? And you? Are you still in Florida? Bamma?


WE are OK, thank you and We are still  in Houston TX.  Danny is not very pumped up about retiring here so we are looking for possibly  a place abroad, preferably the one that is good for scuba diving.
Kaplah!

Online Maxx2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2018, 12:56:47 PM »

WE are OK, thank you and We are still  in Houston TX.  Danny is not very pumped up about retiring here so we are looking for possibly  a place abroad, preferably the one that is good for scuba diving.


Yes, I remember now that you were in Texas for a while. Ever see jb? He is in Corpus Christie. The two big places for expats to retire to is Thailand and Ecuador.


When I get back to Batumi in a few weeks I got a Russian friend who is pretty at good ordering things online. I got a list of snorkel diving items I want to get for diving in the Black Sea.



diving mask,  swim fins and snorkel  Men’s and women’s
anti-fog spray
semi-dry snorkel with purge valve
paralenz dive camera See if they have the new improved one and the reviews
speargun
ivation life vest (2)
Scubapro jet fins (the ones with a hole near the tip) “Seawing Nova”


The Black Sea isn't the best for diving as the water's visibility is only about 7 meters. But we're serious  :offtopic: 
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 12:59:45 PM by Maxx2 »

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2018, 01:43:13 PM »

Yes, I remember now that you were in Texas for a while. Ever see jb? He is in Corpus Christie. The two big places for expats to retire to is Thailand and Ecuador.


When I get back to Batumi in a few weeks I got a Russian friend who is pretty at good ordering things online. I got a list of snorkel diving items I want to get for diving in the Black Sea.



diving mask,  swim fins and snorkel  Men’s and women’s
anti-fog spray
semi-dry snorkel with purge valve
paralenz dive camera See if they have the new improved one and the reviews
speargun
ivation life vest (2)
Scubapro jet fins (the ones with a hole near the tip) “Seawing Nova”


The Black Sea isn't the best for diving as the water's visibility is only about 7 meters. But we're serious  :offtopic:


I knew Black sea was never good enough for diving... we have been diving in Jamaica for the last 5 years. Resorts and diving is very good  there, but living in Jamaica is not as attractive. I have heard  a lot of good things about Spain.
Kaplah!

Online krimster2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2018, 01:47:40 PM »
Jone, pass along to your friend

dear esteemed mamochka!

I happen to be the father of two Russian-American teenage girls, who spent about a third of their life in what is now Russia and the remaining two thirds in the USA.

while it is true, that Russian schools ARE more rigorous and disciplined than their American counter-parts, by the time your child is college age, the advantage that this may provide begins to disappear.

just a week ago, I mailed out a total of 5 university applications for my oldest daughter, now a senior in high school, her SAT score is 1470 by the way, so I guess it was worth the $2,000 I paid her SAT coach, her ACT score has already earned her scholarships.

over half the questions on the SAT/ACT tests are English reading compression, even the Math tests have a lot of complex word problems.  my daughter got sick of all the practice PSAT tests I made her take and all the extra work her SAT coach made her perform, but her SAT score should get her into Rice University next fall (and I expect scholarships to cover more than half the cost!) 
how will you get all this coaching, etc done in Russia??
Unless, you DON’T want to go to an Ivy League school, and instead a second/third tier University or Community College..

BTW, the secret of my kid’s success is just a function of how much time a parent spends with them!  When my daughters moved back to the USA after being in the Russian school system, they had to struggle with reading English in the first week in the US public school system because they were used to reading Russian.  so I spent a half hour with each of them every day
I would read aloud a paragraph from a book while they would follow the text visually, then after I read, they would read it

in a month, their English reading deficit disappeared, in two months their teachers told me they were the top readers in their class (only the older daughter can still read Russian however...)

bottom line it is very competitive getting into an Ivy League school, but very worth it to your child’s future, but it doesn’t happen on it’s own, you have to work at it, and IMHO it is much harder working in Russia on this issue than here in the USA, because Russian school is very different than the SAT/ACT tests, so the curriculum doesn’t prepare you for the test the way that it does in the USA, and you need to have the CONSTANT word problem testing in ENGLISH that being in a USA school system will provide that the average Russian is not going to receive.

however, you can go “low” start out in a community college, you could probably get into a community college with a 1,000 SAT score and then after 1-2 years of 3.0 above GPA transfer to a 2nd tier University

 
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2018, 02:02:42 PM »
---  while it is true, that Russian schools ARE more rigorous and disciplined than their American counter-parts, by the time your child is college age, the advantage that this may provide begins to disappear.
[/size]
[/size]Exactly. Education is only as good as the doors it can open. Russian schools are more rigorous, but american schools open bigger doors.

[/size]Also fully agree with community college idea.
Kaplah!

Online krimster2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2018, 02:04:23 PM »
“I knew Black sea was never good enough for diving...”

hmmm?  what’s wrong with Black Sea diving? other than needing slightly more dive weights
visibility is decent, no harmful marine life, temp is OK...
I managed to find pristine scallop beds away from populated areas and harvested multi-kilos of delicious, tasty scallops in about 20 feet of water (that are safe to eat!)
and you Russians REALLY should try fried scallops in butter and garlic for your shaslik cooked on an old iron skillet over an open fire

I have a good family friend who used to run a dive tour group in Yalta before annexation
I went on my first and only “technical” wreck dive with him, my reward for importing equipment from the USA, unfortunately none of the underwater photos of the WWI shipwreck  came out well...
I think because I was too cold or too scared and shook the camera too much as I was taking photos!!!
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2018, 02:16:39 PM »
“I knew Black sea was never good enough for diving...”

hmmm?  what’s wrong with Black Sea diving? other than needing slightly more dive weights



Nothing wrong, but somehow  none of  Black see diving resorts are on PADI "go to" list.
Kaplah!

Online krimster2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2018, 02:53:53 PM »
"Nothing wrong, but somehow  none of  Black see diving resorts are on PADI "go to" list."

tough to compete with all the tropical spots in the Pacific and Caribbean that are a true diver's paradise!
if you live there great!!!  I still remember Jamaican lingo from my visit there!

WAM! = "What's Up Man"!!!

I took the bus from Kingston up north to Blue Mountain and bought a suitcase full of coffee beans
food there is too spicy for my tastes though!!!

I used to live 300 yards from the Black Sea, in summer months I could snorkel off-shore from Chersonnes "XEP", where I found underwater stone walls,
indicating that the water level has risen quite a lot since classical times
the walls dated from about 120 B.C. to 200 AD and was at one time a maritime barrier to repel barbaric invaders (нет nato!)

In addition I found a spot where for some reason, ships dumped a lot of amphorae overboard in ancient times
most were badly shattered, but I collected several that were substantially intact and looked good next to my fireplace!

no shark paranoia!!!

 

вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online rwd123

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2018, 04:36:45 PM »
I think the discipline aspect is a bit overrated. You can provide discipline as a parent (and support as Krimster mentioned) and provide extra-curricular education with discipline (e.g., Russian schools on weekends, martial arts). Get yourself a Russian and Japanese teacher for extra-curricular activities and you're set! Creativity and imagination is going to become more important with increased AI and automation. Command and control is 20th century management style.

Russian school teacher barely get paid sustenance wages. It's not that bad in the west. In general you get what you pay for. The pathway for further education is also more limited. I have a friend from Europe who studied in a Russian university and was not impressed with the quality.

My biggest two concerns moving to the FSU are schools and hospitals. Most other things I could compromise on.

And welcome back Krimster!

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2018, 04:59:26 PM »
I think the discipline aspect is a bit overrated. You can provide discipline as a parent 


It is. My biggest concern would be  all that liberal bs kids are subjected at schools these days. But it is managable too. I do not believe that school education would be a dealbraker for coming to this country. I am thinking it was just an clever attempt to hide the real reason.
Kaplah!

Online krimster2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2018, 06:02:26 PM »
all public school education in America is geared for testing, there is no actual effort made to educate your child
that is up to you and your kids
that only changes at the university level where they try and provide an actual education...

I've always been able to instill enthusiasm for reading and learning with my children
the "greatest indicator of a child's success" is literally how much time and effort a parent spends with them
that should be what guides a parent's choices

I tend to concur with your assessment, that "MOM" was looking for excuses....





вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online jone

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2018, 08:16:18 PM »
Thank you all for contributing to this thread. 

I am pretty certain that the MOM is not looking for excuses.  The young lad started the year off without his mother as she was visiting her special someone here in the US.  Grandma kept an eye on the boy.  I think that the fear that she has is that if she moves her family to the US, her son will be 'no one special'.  This past year he was elected President of his class (don't think that really means much to an 8 year old, but it did to his mother.)

I have directed her to some of the former members of this forum so that she could interact with them and their experiences bringing their children to the US.

Had the misfortune of specifying one individual who came from Ukraine.  The response was that Ukraine has nowhere near the school system that Russia has - so therefore she would not even consider contacting the parents.

Personally, like Krimster and many others on here, my children have had exceptional educations.  But I had my son living in Russia, South America and China before he finished college.  His language skills are unique in his American circle of friends.

My daughter developed differently and is well grounded in math.  Her social skills are exceptional and, upon finishing college, was rewarded with an excellent job.

I believe that any children raised in America are taught to educational standards.  Beyond that level, the success is dependent on the child and their home environment.  My argument to this woman would be that she would have greater success with her son if he had a two parent environment, instead of one, and made the decision to move ahead with her relationship.
Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

Online krimster2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »
“.....that if she moves her family to the US, her son will be 'no one special”


OMG seriously????
“no one special in the USA”, as opposed to the lofty title of third grade class president in Russia (yeah, who'd want to give that up?)
this is her so-called reasoning?

well, I guess he should stay in Russia and be Prime Minister in the 4th grade then, and we can spare this poor woman the trouble from moving to the USA where her son will not literally be so entitled!

or he can stay in Russia and be conscripted when he’s 18 and die in Syria or Ukraine, take your pick!!!

if you stay in Russia, the average Russian kid will NOT do so well on SAT/ACT score, without that score, you can say das va danya to a top school in the USA, and set your sights on a community college instead and study HVAC repair.

or stay in Russia, maybe class Presidents and Prime Ministers will be exempt from conscription

“ My argument to this woman would be that she would have greater success with her son if he had a two parent environment, instead of one, and made the decision to move ahead with her relationship”

totally correct, does the husband realize what he’s signing up for?
and if he IS signing up for this, why would she turn it down?
free help to raise her kid in America, wellll, I dunno, maybe I should keep him here and keep doing it by myself...
nahhhh, somethin's missing from this picture

« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 08:46:35 PM by krimster2 »
вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Online jone

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2018, 09:10:32 PM »
Yeah,

There is something missing.  The man has not yet made the total commitment to the woman to make the family work.  I'm thinking that once that happens, she will decide that she can raise her son in the US after all.  She's back in Russia right now and he is scheduled to be there for the extended New Year's celebration.
Experience keeps a dear school but fools will learn at no other - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2018, 09:28:33 PM »
or he can stay in Russia and be conscripted when he’s 18 and die in Syria or Ukraine, take your pick!!!
Yeah that's the other thing that would freak me out, but having a foreign passport would not be so much of an issue. So many horror stories just from military training. Russian leadership has a long history in treating the masses as cannon fodder. I don't see that changing.

Online krimster2

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2018, 09:39:20 PM »
"There is something missing.  The man has not yet made the total commitment to the woman to make the family work."

well, THAT is the show stopper then and not the US public education system!
when I was single, I dated American women with kids, this complicates having a relationship tremendously
unless the woman was someone very special, I wouldn't sponsor someone with kids
why make it so difficult when there are so many single women without kids, why involve a kid for this endeavor?

вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

вот как я могу создать американскую личность
Я могу взять напрокат

Offline JayH

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2018, 09:59:02 PM »
Thank you all for contributing to this thread. 

I have directed her to some of the former members of this forum so that she could interact with them and their experiences bringing their children to the US.

Had the misfortune of specifying one individual who came from Ukraine.  The response was that Ukraine has nowhere near the school system that Russia has - so therefore she would not even consider contacting the parents.


Good idea for a thread for sure.

I have commented previously about Russian citizen women that swallow the Russian propaganda  are not good candidates ( I did use a different word to describe previously!)  to adapt to the west  -- or a western man -- especially so if he is a ( god forbid)  a "liberal" ( as in a thinking man !!) . Russians swallowing the Russian garbage over Ukraine is an example of my point !

Before someone pipes up with to" No politics in this thread" comment-- it was in affect raised by this Russian woman's comment --it illustrates the stain on the thinking ( non thinking!) process.

As a general observation on children moving --I would have thought the younger the better would allow an easier assimilation in the school process.I have  ( & have had) some exposure to schools in Ukraine with younger children  and also up to a 14 yo.
Generally speaking good discipline and control of the classes by teachers is good ( by my estimation !)
I do not see that much different to Australia or what I have seen in America in that respect. From what I recall --it is from about 14 up that things get out of hand in Australian schools !
That said -- there was a variation from teacher to teacher,class to class,school to school  etc .Those factors will be what is important wherever a child is going to school. 
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online Donna_Pedro

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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2018, 10:12:19 PM »
Thank you all for contributing to this thread. 

I am pretty certain that the MOM is not looking for excuses.  The young lad started the year off without his mother as she was visiting her special someone here in the US.  Grandma kept an eye on the boy.  I think that the fear that she has is that if she moves her family to the US, her son will be 'no one special'.  This past year he was elected President of his class (don't think that really means much to an 8 year old, but it did to his mother.)





I really dont know what they have in Ukrain these days, but in 1 month nobody would care. Exactly the way it was with my child. in 1 month nobody even remembered that he came from Russia. KIds get accustomed to new surroundings much faster, if the child comes before 13-14 yo, there is a chance he might not have accent. Yes, he would not be special but one of the students in his class, which is what I would be hoping for - for him to assimilate, feel like he belongs here, find new friends, figure out how to get the most out of this educational system. He has never been a class president, but a few years ago graduated with a JD from Harvard Law school. Thats where he is very much special.
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Re: Children making the transition to the New World ......
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2018, 10:38:42 PM »

Regardless of what one thinks who has the better education system, a child has a greater chance for success in America than in Russia. The environment America provides allows people to succeed more here than anywhere. A child has a greater chance to become a millionaire or billionaire even if they're not smart. We got the Mega Millions and Powerball lotteries. That's my ticket to get rich!

 

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