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Author Topic: Polish Women and Virginity  (Read 5958 times)

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Offline Strider

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« Reply #175 on: February 20, 2019, 08:33:24 AM »
'I am an Ulster PROTESTANT and quite happy to have the shops closed on Sundays )

Quote from: en.oxforddictionaries.com
Orangist: A person who espouses Protestant political principles and the Protestant cause, especially in Northern Ireland; = "Orangeman".
http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/orangist

1/ As far as I am aware, no member of my immediate family...Parents, Grandparents, siblings  or cousins  - was EVER an Orangeman

So did msmob convert to Protestantism and anger the family?  The rest of the family supports King Francis II as the legitimate King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria#Succession_rights
They must have some interesting family gatherings.!

 :ROFL:

This troll still can't say what I have “revised” other than communist propaganda.  It was Stalin who revised all of the Ruthenians into Ukrainians, whether they agreed with that or not.

He wrote about his conquest in a book called "De Bello Gallico" (About the Gallic War).Conquered  in the 6th century by romanised Rhineland Franks. Therefore their cultural assimilation into romanised Gaul was not difficult - they acquired the local latinised language and only contributed phonetically what was thenceforth erroneously called the French R sound, which is actually a Germanic sound ;). Maybe only those poorly educated historicallly ::).

Right, and there was a change in the local language and ethnic composition of the area after the conquest, and history notes that.  The issue is that with the modern state of Ukraine, English language academics persist in calling the people of the region “Ukrainians” anachronistically, regardless of what they had considered themselves, or what language or dialects they spoke, as a way of hiding what Stalin had done to change the area.  Stalin forbade the use of the endonym “Ruthenian”, sent Poles and others to the gulags, forceably resettled Carpo-Rusyns either to former German areas of present day Poland, or inside the Soviet Union and called them “Ukrainians”, etc.  Western academics, have simply covered up for Stalin's acts when they don't use the historical endonyms to whitewash the lack of self-determination, and forced assimilation of people into officially sanctioned Soviet ethnic groups.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 09:55:50 AM by Strider »
"It's by talking nonsense that one gets to the truth!"
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Offline Strider

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« Reply #176 on: February 20, 2019, 08:50:04 AM »
Still good news for the UK is that when we leave the EU our passports are going back to blue :D
So that will bring us in line with the US  with blue being the most desirable passport colour :)

I don't know that FSU women ever all wanted to go to North America.  The idea of uprooting themselves and moving far away from all that is familiar to them was never that appealing to them.  Many would have been happy to find a German or Scandinavian spouse so they could return home to see the family easier.  Things might change if they have a friend or relative in your home country, but then be careful that she is really interested in long term marriage, and not just a ticket out.
"It's by talking nonsense that one gets to the truth!"
-Fiodor Michajłowicz Dostojewski

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #177 on: February 20, 2019, 09:44:42 AM »
http://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/orangist

So did msmob convert to Protestantism and anger the family?  The rest of the family supports King Francis II as the legitimate King of the United Kingdomof Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz,_Duke_of_Bavaria#Succession_rights
They must have some interesting family gatherings.!

 :ROFL:


Yeah, I always got the impression our Mobe could be an British MI5/IRA commander double agent who went super grass for both sides and then even confused himself what side he was on, commited to a psychiatric mental hospital from which he prompty eascaped to Cyprus to do iffy Saterlite TV set up in return for questionable Russian language tuition, lol :cheesy:
No Deal is Ideal :)

Offline Boethius

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« Reply #178 on: February 21, 2019, 12:34:06 AM »
My great, great grandparents were "Ruthenians".  They referred to themselves as "rus"  They also referred to themselves as "Ukrainians".  That was in the mid 1800's, and it was not unusual at the time, nor later, up to the 1920's. 


I know a lot of Ukrainians who emigrated to Canada from Galicia, from the first immigrant families to after WWII.  They all referred to themselves as "Ukrainian", and those that came in the interwar period, or as WWII refugees, had the highest level of national consciousness of all - probably more so than Ukrainians in Ukraine today.  So this idea being propagated that "Ukrainians" did not self identify as such is nonsense. 


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To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online msmob

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« Reply #179 on: February 21, 2019, 02:11:16 AM »


This troll still can't say what I have “revised” other than communist propaganda.

The 'troll' has pointed to specific historical howlers of yours - like E.Poland - which is the location of Warsaw - being the 'centre' of 'conservatism'  :rolleyes:

From your 'opinion' on virgins to your revisionist history issues - you are 'dangerous' in that a fool like Trench would find you an ally

You have a VERY bad habit of disputing historical facts with locals from the 'areas' you choose to feign 'expertise' ....

My paternal side are from the 'south' ( Republic) of Ireland  and my Granddad taught us that the 'truth' re British / Irish history ( as taught in schools) was to read between the lines of both to be nearer the truth..

1/ His father was a retired RIC ( Royal Irish Constabulary ) officer and the 'IRA boys' suggested he and his family left "as he had taken the Queen and Kings' Shilling"  - they moved to the north

Irish nationalism was originally non sectarian - you might like to consult http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stewart_Parnell - as he was a PROTESTANT ...

2/ My paternal side were of French Huguenot extraction and my other grandfather was offered membership of the Orange Order and Masons - but gracefully declined



3/ My first wife was R.Catholic and her Dad was from SW Ireland ...

Is there ANYTHING you can write about that isn't so mockable when depending your 'stances' ?   'Sorry' if you were suggesting a bigoted Proddie ...

BIG fail on your part








Online msmob

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« Reply #180 on: February 22, 2019, 03:25:22 AM »
I don't know that FSU women ever all wanted to go to North America.  The idea of uprooting themselves and moving far away from all that is familiar to them was never that appealing to them.  Many would have been happy to find a German or Scandinavian spouse so they could return home to see the family easier.  Things might change if they have a friend or relative in your home country, but then be careful that she is really interested in long term marriage, and not just a ticket out.

Our Strider is 'at it', again

I work with many young Russians and you would be shocked at the number who want out - I was - I thought VVP had instilled pride - but it seems after SO long in power and corruption being the main gripe ( according to poll after poll in the Sber Bank 'Ivanov index'  - he has lost cred amongst most smart folk.

'ticket out' ?  Certainly not by using a westerner as Strider 'suggests'  .... Sure there are some who might - but it is not the majority


Is there ANYTHING you can write about that isn't so mockable when depending 'defending' your 'stances' ?   

Spotted my spelling howler, too late

Offline Strider

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« Reply #181 on: February 22, 2019, 07:52:30 AM »
My great, great grandparents were "Ruthenians".  They referred to themselves as "rus"  They also referred to themselves as "Ukrainians".  That was in the mid 1800's, and it was not unusual at the time, nor later, up to the 1920's. 

The Ukrainian nationalist movement in Galicia was a political movement of mostly, poor peasant ethnic Ruthenians led by the Greek Catholic clergy.  Other Ruthenians, particularly the better educated, those who had intermarried with the Poles more recently, and particularly the Carpo-Rusyns who continue to have a different language, rejected the Ukrainian nationalist movement.  Since the Ukrainian nationalist movement in Galicia began only around 1815 and it took years for the elites to decide on a course of standardizing the literary language in Cyrillic based on the language much further East, it would have been extremely unusual for you to have had great-great-grandparents who had identified themselves as “Ukrainians” in Galicia in the mid 1800's as you have stated.  In the preface to Galicia: A Multicultured Land editors Magosci and Hahn take pains to note that they did not use the term “Ukrainians” to refer Galicia's Ruthenians before 1914, “"Ukrainian” implies that the given East Slavic population (or portion thereof) had adopted a clear Ukrainian national identity.  This process was a gradual one that occurred during the late nineteenth century and first decades of the twentieth century.” (pg. ix)  So, unless you are descended from the elite Ruthenians who were in the clergy, please forgive me if I don't believe your statement.

According to the last census of the Second Polish Republic in 1931, 3,221,975 people, (10.10% of the population) most closely identified themselves with the Ukrainian, language, while 1,219,647 (3.82% of the population) had identified themselves with the Ruthenian language.  Clearly, on the eve of WWII, all Ruthenians had not considered themselves Ukrainians, and Polish historians have reported Ruthenian accounts of Bandera's fascists using ethnic violence or the threat of it, against Ruthenians who were rejecting the Ukrainian nationalist movement.

I know a lot of Ukrainians who emigrated to Canada from Galicia, from the first immigrant families to after WWII.  They all referred to themselves as "Ukrainian", and those that came in the interwar period, or as WWII refugees, had the highest level of national consciousness of all - probably more so than Ukrainians in Ukraine today.  So this idea being propagated that "Ukrainians" did not self identify as such is nonsense.

Take it up with Magosci and Hahn.  They are very well respected on that point.  From my search of the records at Ellis Island, only my great-grandfather's first cousin, (whom I remember as he died when I was a teen-ager, and he was not the only family member I remember who was born in Galicia), had declared that he was a “Ukrainian” upon arrival in 1907.  He was just a teen himself at the time escaping mandatory military service at 21.  What is curious is that both his mother, and his step-mother/aunt (the aunt married the father when the mother died in childbirth or something similar as was the custom) were both Roman Catholics, and therefore according the “experts” in academia, both ethnic Poles.  So “Uncle Alex” as we called him, declared himself to be a Ukrainian, despite the fact that his “mother tongue” was plainly Polish.  My cousins on that side of the family use Polish words to refer to family members, and my great uncle told me that his parents [my Polish great-grandparents] used Ukrainian words mixed into their dialect of Polish.  One point worth noting is that “Uncle Alex” was a farmer known for forcing the dog to drink alcohol.  This was his idea of fun.  My great-grandfather was a skilled cabinet maker who worked in a locomotive factory.  One may see a broader pattern in that...

Now my great-grandmother had a father who was a Ruthenian and Greek Catholic.  He married my great-great-grandmother who was a Roman Catholic, and presumably, therefore an ethnic Pole in modern thought.  (The people of Galicia had intermarried for centuries, so who was what remains somewhat arbitrary since in such mixed marriages the children traditionally took the religion of their same-sex parent.  However, modern academic “experts” have declared they know somehow based on religion and so-called “mother tongue”, notwithstanding the fact that ethnicity and nationality had been determined paternally.)  So, I just now searched the database at /www.libertyellisfoundation.org for my great-great-grandfather's surname as I know we had some cousins who came to the U.S.  In the results from 1820 to 1918, there are 24 people with that last name who identified themselves as “Ruthenian” upon arrival, not “Ukrainian”.  Of the 24, eight are from the family village in Galicia, (and most certainly my distant cousins) which was also home to Vasyl Mudry, a famous Ukrainian in pre-war Poland who served as editor of the largest Ukrainian language newspaper of the time, and became the deputy-speaker of the Polish Sejm and remained loyal to Poland when the Soviets invaded in 1939:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasyl_Mudry

This post was composed without the aid of google.

To quote Mark Twain, ““Faith is believing what you know ain't so.”

Yeah, I always got the impression our Mobe could be an British MI5/IRA commander double agent who went super grass for both sides and then even confused himself what side he was on, commited to a psychiatric mental hospital from which he prompty eascaped to Cyprus to do iffy Saterlite TV set up in return for questionable Russian language tuition, lol :cheesy:

Well, he plainly isn't ethnically Irish.  The “weakness of the Irish” is well known, but they aren't known for having such psychiatric problems or personality disorders.  He certainly doesn't sing the Skye Boat Song and get all choked up thinking about Bonnie Prince Charlie like a proper Jacobist.  No Orangist would do that.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 12:11:10 PM by Strider »
"It's by talking nonsense that one gets to the truth!"
-Fiodor Michajłowicz Dostojewski

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« Reply #182 on: February 22, 2019, 08:53:16 AM »
Yet more, revisionism from Strider..((

I'll leave our  Ukraine expert to tear the sexual and historically 'incorrect' howlers re UA,



Well, he plainly isn't ethnically Irish.

Hmm, your historical knowledge doesn't extend to recent Anglo-Irish accords of historical fact, either ?  :ROFL:

I have always been entitled to Irish Citizenship being born on the island - according to the previous constitution - before the Good Friday agreement and the UK govt respect the right of a resident of Northern Ireland to chose to be Irish ... There's been a recent High Court ruling on the matter given an Irish citizen - resident in N.Ireland - born in N.Ireland - never having had a UK passport - used the EU route to bring in her US husband - rather than using the the UK national immigration route ...

You'll forgive me - but when it comes to immigrations laws in the UK / Ireland - I have practical experience ... involving challenging the state as to the legality of it's 'laws' and their implementation ..


Ooops ...  Strider fails, again

The “weakness of the Irish” is well known, but they aren't known for having such psychiatric problems or personality disorders.  He certainly doesn't sing the Skye Boat Song and get all choked up thinking about Bonnie Prince Charlie like a proper Jacobist.  No Orangist would do that.

1/ I wasn't around in 1567 to 1625 

2/ I love the song

3/ What is your 'qualification' to judge my 'psychiatric problems or personality disorders' ?  :popcorn:




« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 07:10:02 PM by msmob »

Online SteveInBoston

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« Reply #183 on: February 22, 2019, 10:34:35 AM »
From my search of the records at Ellis Island, only my great-grandfather's first cousin, (whom I remember as he died when I was a teen-ager, and he was not the only family member I remember who was born in Galicia), had declared that he was a “Ukrainian” upon arrival in 1907.  He was just a teen himself at the time escaping mandatory military service at 21.  What is curious is that both his mother, and his step-mother/aunt (the aunt married the father when the mother died in childbirth or something similar as was the custom) were both Roman Catholics, and therefore according the “experts” in academia, both ethnic Poles.  So “Uncle Alex” as we called him, declared himself to be a Ukrainian, despite the fact that his “mother tongue” was plainly Polish.  My cousins on that side of the family use Polish words to refer to family members, and my great uncle told me that his parents used Ukrainian words mixed into their dialect of Polish. 

Interesting. Uncle Alex declared himself "Ukrainian" even though he was probably Polish.  He also said his parents used Ukrainian words.

If "Ukraine" was not in the consciousness of people like Uncle Alex and his parents, why did he refer to it?  Did he just make it up from his own imagination, like Tolkien did with Middle Earth?



Offline Strider

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« Reply #184 on: February 22, 2019, 11:29:31 AM »
Interesting. Uncle Alex declared himself "Ukrainian" even though he was probably Polish.  He also said his parents used Ukrainian words.
If "Ukraine" was not in the consciousness of people like Uncle Alex and his parents, why did he refer to it?  Did he just make it up from his own imagination, like Tolkien did with Middle Earth?

Well his father was a Ruthenian and Greek Catholic, thus he called himself a Ukrainian in the new style of his times.  He certainly could speak some Polish, as well as Ukrainian/Ruthenian.  The local language was a mixture of both.  They learned the formal Polish and Ukrainian languages in the schools.  What they spoke at home was a matter of personal choice.  My best friend's father also came from the area, but born a bit later in the 1930's.  He would answer to Polish, Ruthenian or Ukrainian and was also bilingual.  His first wife was Ukrainian and his second wife was Polish.  My point is that putting labels on people in such mixed regions can get rather silly.  The human rights point is that these people were not given a choice.  Those who were too Polish for Stalin and his commies, at best got shipped out first to Siberia and Kazakhstan, and later to former German territories.  The Ruthenians might have suffered the same fate if they were too prosperous, and most learned to shut up due to the threats from the UPA and the commies.  There most certainly were ethnic Ruthenians for whom being Catholic and living in a Catholic nation was more important than education in a literary language which was not quite their own from hundreds of miles away.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 11:50:04 AM by Strider »
"It's by talking nonsense that one gets to the truth!"
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #185 on: February 22, 2019, 12:05:59 PM »
The intellectual elite were the ones who established the programs that encouraged Ukrainian national identity.  But, most of them weren't willing to spend their lives in the countryside, so they passed on developed programs to local priests.  However, the movement of Ukrainian national identity in Galicia was always steered by intellectuals, not the peasantry.  Some things that worked in urban settings, such as artist collectives, failed among the peasantry.


A good book on the early originals of national consciousness in the region is John-Paul Himka's Galician Villagers and the National Movement in the Nineteenth Century.


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Offline Strider

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« Reply #186 on: February 22, 2019, 12:27:49 PM »
I would recommend Jan Kozik's, Ukrainian National Movement in Galicia: 1815-1849 (1986).  Kozik explores the foundation of the novel Ukrainian movement in Galicia.  Reviewed here:
http://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/92/4/1001/157359?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Apparently many Ukrainian historians have neglected that ethnogenisis and the debate about creating the modern Ukrainian language perhaps because the intellectual elite to which Boethius refers had much of that discussion in Polish!

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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #187 on: February 22, 2019, 12:32:38 PM »
Quote
Apparently many Ukrainian historians have neglected that ethnogenisis and the debate about creating the modern Ukrainian language perhaps because the intellectual elite to which Boethius refers had much of that discussion in Polish!


LOL.  All of the historians I read are leaders in their fields, and are not "Ukrainian".  All of them can read Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, usually French and German.

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #188 on: February 22, 2019, 02:20:25 PM »
A good book on the early originals of national consciousness in the region is John-Paul Himka's Galician Villagers and the National Movement in the Nineteenth Century.

LOL.  All of the historians I read are leaders in their fields, and are not "Ukrainian".  All of them can read Russian, Ukrainian, Polish, usually French and German.

Really?
 :D

Quote from: Wikipedia
As a historian Himka was a Marxist in the 1970s-80s...
...Himka is of mixed ethnic background, Ukrainian (on father's side) and Italian (on mother's). Initially he wanted to become a Greek Catholic priest and studied at St. Basil Seminary in Stamford, Connecticut. However, due to the radicalization of his political views to the left by the end of the 1960s he did not pursue that vocation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John-Paul_Himka

"It's by talking nonsense that one gets to the truth!"
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #189 on: February 22, 2019, 02:52:59 PM »
Quote
Really?


Yes.  Really.  I know Himka from academic circles.  His mother died when he was a child, and he was raised by his paternal grandmother, which is where his love of history arose, and why he speaks fluent Ukrainian.  He also reads Russian, Polish, German, Italian, French, and a few other languages.


While a student at the University of Chicago, he became a Marxist.  Studying history, he found his true passion.


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« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 04:25:45 PM by Boethius »
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« Reply #190 on: February 22, 2019, 02:54:10 PM »
Is this where I mention that I use Irish Spring soap when showering?
or is it off topic?

NOTE: The word Irish is posted which means that Moby has an opinion
AND a correction.

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re Irish spring soap
« Reply #191 on: February 22, 2019, 07:17:51 PM »
Never heard of it - or used it - or seen it on sale - in Ireland ........   A little like ' Top of the mornin' .... 



I expect its sales to rise exponentially, now ;)

« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 05:52:01 AM by msmob »

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #192 on: February 23, 2019, 05:26:30 AM »
It's strange all this family history I knew my father's parents history and my mother's father history but my Jewish Belarus grandmother history was never talked about.  It was only when my relatives started researching the family tree. My grandmother her 2 sisters and parents arrived by ship and just settled where they landed by ship.

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #193 on: February 23, 2019, 05:36:28 AM »
The other day T and I were driving to go visit my sister.  We were getting on I-90 near Worcester when T turned to me with a puzzled look. She said, “Babe, I thought ‘pike’ was a fish.”

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #194 on: February 23, 2019, 07:07:58 AM »
Pike is a fish.  It's also a weapon 10 to 25 feet long.  I never understood the usa pike road.

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #195 on: February 23, 2019, 07:23:04 AM »
Turnpike origin:

One faced a turned  pike - sharp bladed 'pike' on a shaft ( stick) until one paid up - upon which one's way was 'clear' and the barrier raised

They are toll roads in UK English


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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #196 on: February 23, 2019, 07:48:45 AM »
Turnpike origin:

One faced a turned  pike - sharp bladed 'pike' on a shaft ( stick) until one paid up - upon which one's way was 'clear' and the barrier raised

They are toll roads in UK English
What on earth is UK English?

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #197 on: February 23, 2019, 04:37:46 PM »
I suspect he means British vs American use of language - hood=bonnet, apartment=flat, etc.  I won't include "fag". :)

Where I live, pike (or more accurately, northern pike) are ubiquitous.  But the only person I know who refers to them as pike is the better half.  Locals call them "jackfish".

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« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 04:41:14 PM by Boethius »
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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #198 on: February 23, 2019, 04:59:18 PM »
A Pike is an abbreviation for Pickerel in North America. In Holland they are called Snook. Take care they have sharp teeth and a good bite.

Great game fish on a fly rod. Miserable eating in my opinion.

The Pickerel is of the same family as the Walleye.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Boethius

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Re: Polish Women and Virginity
« Reply #199 on: February 23, 2019, 05:13:17 PM »
No, pike and pickerel are two different fish, albeit from the same family.  Pike are bigger, and have less spotting,

Some people refer to walleye as pickerel, but that is inaccurate.  Pickerel are not found in western North America. 

I never knew much about fish until the better half arrived here.  I can know identify which fish are in which rivers and lakes across the province, and in BC.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 09:08:11 PM by Boethius »
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