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Author Topic: Itís KYIV  (Read 2427 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2019, 07:52:01 PM »
KAYiv in Ukrainian, KEYef in Russian.  Probably indiscernible to most non native speakers, and most would hear a "v" rather than an "f".


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2019, 06:09:29 AM »
KAYiv in Ukrainian, KEYef in Russian.
So it's like CAVE, as ML said. Quite a distortion of its written form, how odd :-\.
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Online msmob

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2019, 06:32:08 AM »
Kyiv - sounds like 'Kyyiv' and Kiev like 'Kiyev' .. according to  Google translate ..;)



We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2019, 04:59:40 PM »
Kyiv - sounds like 'Kyyiv' and Kiev like 'Kiyev' .. according to  Google translate ..;)
Thanks, but:

- I don't think Google translate is very reliable as far as SOUNDS are concerned.
- Kyyiv. how would one pronounce  that ::)? The problem is that English is so unorthograhic (inconsistent in its spelling, see http://www.floriani.it/English-eng.htm for more details) to be of little use as a guide to phonetics.

I prefer to rely on 'human' advice on this :).
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2019, 05:37:25 PM »
It's two syllables in Ukrainian, hence, not "CAVE".

Below is the pronunciation of Kyiv, first in Ukrainian, then in Russian, by a native speaker. ;)

This post was composed without the aid of google.


http://vocaroo.com/i/s1SyFAm9ZKbD
« Last Edit: June 06, 2019, 05:53:03 PM by Boethius »
Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2019, 07:09:11 PM »
It's two syllables in Ukrainian, hence, not "CAVE". Below is the pronunciation of Kyiv, first in Ukrainian, then in Russian, by a native speaker. ;)
Yes, I would transpose in Italian (we have vowel accents as diacritical marks, and no Ys ;)) as:

-UKR: Kž-iv
-RUS: Kž-ev


A disyllable with stress on the 1st syllable (Kž). No final F sound, although maybe it appears when other words follow, for an easier liaison.
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Online msmob

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2019, 09:21:39 PM »
Actually, surely having another word follow would change the name (ending )  - in Russian, surely ? ;)  [ don't know Ukrainian well enough ]


The -ev surely DOES sound like and 'F' ...   In English I often see Smirnov transliterated as Smirnof(f) ..Stroganov / Stronganoff

 :rolleyes:
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline Boethius

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2019, 09:55:22 PM »
Actually, surely having another word follow would change the name (ending )  - in Russian, surely ? ;)  [ don't know Ukrainian well enough ]


You mean cases.


Kyiv is the nominative case, so no change.  It would change in other cases, in both Ukrainian and Russian, in most cases, identically.  There is one more case in Ukrainian than there is in Russian.  Proper use is what separates the "men from the boys" among non native speakers.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver.

Online msmob

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2019, 03:01:51 AM »
Thanks, Boethius!

Can you explain to this 'boy' how places names become (  I call it 'Hispanicified') with 'eh' sounds added?

I hear Russians speak of Limassol as 'Limasoleh'..

« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 07:40:42 AM by msmob »
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2019, 07:14:51 AM »
I hear Russian speak of Limassol as 'Lissamsoleh'..
Always? Or depends on sentence, and therefore case declension?

- Limassol is...
-...in/from/to Limassol
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Online msmob

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2019, 07:41:30 AM »
Always? Or depends on sentence, and therefore case declension?

- Limassol is...
-...in/from/to Limassol

I don't know, Sandro ((

We'll wait for the cavalry to come !
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline Boethius

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2019, 09:46:40 AM »
Thanks, Boethius!

Can you explain to this 'boy' how places names become (  I call it 'Hispanicified') with 'eh' sounds added?

I hear Russians speak of Limassol as 'Limasoleh'..

That is declensions again.  These are locative declensions -

Ukrainian - I live in Kyiv -  Я в Києві живу.
Russian - I live in Moscow - Я живу в Москве.

I mixed up the word order, as that's another thing non native speakers don't do.  The first sentence sounds more "natural" to me.

This post was composed without the aid of google.



« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 10:39:12 AM by Boethius »
Mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est l'hiver.

Online msmob

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Re: Itís KYIV
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2019, 10:15:17 AM »
THANK YOU, Boethius - can now read up and learn
 
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

 

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