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Author Topic: Chernobyl on HBO  (Read 608 times)

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Offline GQBlues

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Chernobyl on HBO
« on: May 14, 2019, 10:48:00 PM »
HBO (subscription) is showing a riveting special (8 Series) of the Chernobyl accident. The portrayal is near in its authenticity. I didn't realize the things that went behind the scenes. I also didn't know that it came within 48-72 hours to a thermal reaction explosion, in the equivalent of 2 megaton bomb, that would've wiped out Ukraine/Belarus/Poland/Romania/Czechoslovakia/Latvia/Lithuania...


~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Online msmob

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO ( and SKY Atlantic on right side of the pond !)
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2019, 10:57:48 PM »
I've watched the first two episodes and it's getting better..

If accurate, many owe our future partner's lives to brave men

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2019, 10:36:29 PM »
I rate every episode extraordinary. 

The wife could not watch it because it was such a tragedy.    However, her son and I watched every moment and thoroughly enjoyed it.  We thought it consisted of six episodes and were surprised it ended at tonight's fifth.   

The scenes were most remarkable, capturing old Soviet days as well as a haunting surrealistic portrayal of the disaster.    The film draws many contrasts.  One is the character of the brave and patriotic young men called upon to contain the disaster vs. the incompetent and secretive leaders operating in a state of menacing deniability.   A prime example of what Moby mentioned above  is the corps of miners called upon to dig by hand tunnels underneath the hot reactors, wise enough to perceive a deadly risk yet forging ahead because it had to be done.   

The film covers throughout  how the Soviet leadership did not disclose to the citizens nor to the world the magnitude of the disaster nor the true reasons for the failure.  One weakness of the Soviet system is that so many bosses were appointed based on  cronyism rather than their leadership skills and achievements.  Once appointed they followed the party line.    The knowing scientists for the most part are portrayed as passive objectors who reluctantly followed the party line.  However, the lead scientist disclosed in a trial the "truth" -  the reactors of  the proud Soviet nuclear program had a fatal design flaw which was covered up even to the reactor operators.  He voiced his fear of  what the truth would cost him, yet in the end he knew this was overshadowed by the cost of lies.     

One good line:  The KGB head tells the scientist not to  worry about things that will not happen.  The scientist looks at him and says, "That's perfect; it should be printed on our money."   

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 08:47:00 AM »
FROM ANOTHER THREAD

JUST finished the last part of Cheronbyl

I was scared Gator was going to 'spoil' the end - in another thread ;)



Sorry, I thought most of us knew the ending.  ;D   The only people who didn't know the ending were Soviet citizens who were kept in the dark not only during the most dangerous days and weeks of the incident but for over 10 years afterwards.   

The film leaves no doubt about the magnitude of the cost to USSR, not only in the site cleanup, the health effects,  and the redesign of other nuclear plants, but perhaps the harsh  realization by the Soviet leaders of the weakness of their beloved Soviet system.   

The film quotes Gorbachev claiming Chernobyl was prime reason for the collapse of the CCCP.   

 

Quote
We should all find some time to watch it

I would say more ..but I think it should be discussed in a month - after more have caught up

Agree, please take the lead.     


I am amazed by the current lack of discussion.  Several of my friends who have no connection to FSUW have remarked the series is exceptional.  The mere fact they watched it says something given the many TV options. 


Several key moments in the film that should have elicited much discussion, e. g.,  a member of the Central Committee overruling from the floor a high court judge in the middle of judicial proceedings.   Also interesting throughout the film,  the stark contrast between the human spirit of the ordinary people and the intrinsic malfeasance of their Soviet leaders.

Online msmob

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO ( and SKY - in the UK ! )
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 09:04:50 AM »
Does anyone - who wants to see this - object - if we discuss some minor differences between the serial and fact ?

Will not spoil it for you ? ;)

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO ( and SKY - in the UK ! )
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 11:46:38 AM »
Does anyone - who wants to see this - object - if we discuss some minor differences between the serial and fact ?


I don't think anyone is reading this.  Anyway, eyes can be averted.


I am sure the film has factual discrepancies.  All historic films do. 

We know the female nuclear scientist is fictitious.   And I do not know enough about nuclear technology to question the science.   Those more familiar with Soviet politics and leadership style,  might disagree with how portrayed.
   

Online Faux Pas

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO ( and SKY - in the UK ! )
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 12:41:01 PM »
Does anyone - who wants to see this - object - if we discuss some minor differences between the serial and fact ?

Will not spoil it for you ? ;)

Is this where you inform everyone of "fact" in the disaster?  :D

I don't think anyone is reading this.  Anyway, eyes can be averted.


I am sure the film has factual discrepancies.  All historic films do. 

We know the female nuclear scientist is fictitious.   And I do not know enough about nuclear technology to question the science.   Those more familiar with Soviet politics and leadership style,  might disagree with how portrayed.
   

My wife and I waited anxiously  for each episode. She said the portrayal of the times and the disaster was hauntingly more accurate than any movie or show from the West that she has seen. The set of the show, the tone and feel portrayed by the actors and specifically the Soviet system in general was exactly as she remembered and she lived it. I remember the events and followed them closely then as much as we had from the Western perspective.

I read today the Russians are also making a serial of the event's that actually blame the West for the disaster. I read it online so it must be true.  ;D

Offline Jamesukjames

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2019, 12:41:38 PM »
When operational Chernobyl's covering structure was made of a tar and paper composite much like cheap shed roofs, whole place built on the cheap

Offline Boethius

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2019, 01:28:09 PM »
The roof on the Chernobyl reactor was made of concrete, not tar and paper. 

Certain aspects of Soviet building were very closely monitored.  While the looks of many of these buildings/ships/planes, etc., were utilitarian, they were built under exacting standards, particularly if everything was controlled in Moscow, as nuclear reactors were.

As I have posted in the past, the better half was stationed at Chernobyl by the army (illegally, by Soviet law, as he was not old enough to be recalled for military duty).  He was there for a prolonged period, being released right before my last visit to the USSR.  He was there when commissions (there were several) into the disaster passed through on a practically weekly basis, and they had no issues telling those on the military base what was happening. 

The better half says that the day of the accident was a Saturday, and all of the workers left their posts to go fishing, leaving two low level workers to man the station.  He said it was akin to leaving "two janitors to oversee a nuclear substation".  When a warning went off, apparently during tests, the (drunk) worker on duty tried to force something, rather than take proper procedures.  He ignored all warnings, thinking he could "force" his presumed solution.

I haven't watched the HBO dramatization, as the better half has no interest.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 01:34:00 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online msmob

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2019, 01:38:32 PM »

This post was composed without the aid of google.

You should .. he should - the story line doesn't seem to stray from Valery Legasov's memoirs  - on which it is based ..  a bit dramatised - one fictional character - to cover many - and a few other things that folks should watch first - before spoiling it ;)

 

Offline Boethius

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2019, 01:42:26 PM »
I won't invest the time if he's not watching, and he won't because he says he knows what happened, he doesn't need anyone to explain it to him.  He also got to see lots of children dying in the local hospital (he used to buy 10 kg bags of candy for them), the mendacity of local party officials, and the difficulty of life in that general area, so like most of his life in the USSR, he doesn't have the fondest of memories (he did like the men he served with, and the people in the villages, though).


This post was composed without the aid of google.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online msmob

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2019, 01:48:38 PM »
Thanks for explaining  - as he explained it to you - there may be a conflict with the memoirs

Offline Boethius

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2019, 01:59:19 PM »
I don't know the memoirs, but I do know that he spoke to some people who worked at Chernobyl' and had been relocated from Pripyat, and he spoke to a lot of officials on the "commissions".  He learned of the workers going fishing from other workers. 

When I mentioned Legasov's name, the BH's response was "He was a party hack.  His report caused a lot of animosity with other scientists, meaning, he lied."  He did, though, say Legasov was correct in his conclusion that the Chernobyl' workers were not "professionals", as they were chosen based on party credentials.

There were other commissions after Legasov's report.  He also tells me Legasov committed suicide because he was forced to deliver a false report, and couldn't live with himself.

After that first commission, the CPSU wanted to get to the real truth, and that's why there were other commissions.  But their official reports were never released because "it was too shameful".


Remember that those memoirs were written by a Soviet official, during Soviet times. by someone devoted to the Soviet system.  So, they are somewhat suspect.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 02:11:19 PM by Boethius »
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2019, 02:06:55 PM »
My wife was as riveted to this show as was I. I thought there was a segment missing between the 4th and 5th (final) episode.

What a show!

What wifey told me was that the danger of Chernobyl has not waned. From what she heard from Papa was that, there is still a hot mass of some kind that was formed during the disaster (apparently), and from what he (papa) believes, it continues to burn a hole into the ground slowly and has not yet been mitigated. The miners dug but never really finished what they had to do (install the heat exchanger).

I'm not sure if this is true or not as I can't fathom the reality that if left unabated, it will eventually reach the groundwater and create an ensuing disaster likely greater than, or equal to, the original explosion.

There are numerous intense scenes on these episodes that I had a tough time watching...the puppy scene, The 90-seconds shoveling of the scattered graphite from the roof, the 3 volunteers who went underground to try and shut the water valve off, the miners...but I think the best one of all was the babushka milking the cow who refused to be evacuated.
~Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people~ Gator :P

Online krimster2

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2019, 02:30:32 PM »
in 1997, I visited a children’s hospital in Chernigov
the part that houses children that are left there to die
a lot of them were there because of Chernovil
there was one image in the series of a young woman in the hospital
it looked like it came straight from THIS hospital
it was so real that I began to smell the hospital
and had to stop watching and go outside...
this show is NOT for me, sorry...

last year took my FIL to the cancer center at Simash in Simferopol
outside they have what I call the cancer barracks
there’s only one such place in all of Crimea
people who get by on a $100/month can’t afford the logistics of back and forth for treatment
if they don’t live in Simferopol
so they have a barracks for these folks, a old army cot and a foot locker
truth be told, most of them are like the children in Chernigov
dropped off and left there to die....

for lack of $500,000 yearly in maintenance
the filter system on the Northern Crimean Canal was allowed to break down
and as a result pass along the radioactive sediments that fills the ENTIRE watershed in Ukraine
where it’s fed into the agricultural canals and then into local crops
where it’s deposited into the upper root zone where it builds up year after year
and then into the plants and then into the people
in 2004, my tap water in Sevastopol had a “count” of 14 times background
there are no old people in the villages, they all died of cancer before or during their 60s

вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Online Gator

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2019, 03:23:04 PM »
In time with the HBO miniseries, The Atlantic this week published historic photos of the Chernobyl disaster.  Obviously photographers when taking the photos had placed themselves in harm's way.  The sheer violence of the No. 3 Reactor explosion is evident from  photos.




A concrete roof likely was built over the No. 3 Reactor, yet was completely blown off.  The adjacent roofs including that over the No. 4 are littered with exploded material including remnants of the infamous graphite tips of the rods.  The radiation was so high that the "biological robots" clearing the roof could work only in 40-second shifts. 





The caption of photo # 17 speaks volumes about Soviet mentality.  Other captions describe the inadequate training of the workers including their makeshift protective gear.

Quote
  Following orders issued by Soviet authorities to mark the end of cleanup operations on the roof of the No. 3 reactor, three men were requested to post a red flag atop the chimney overlooking the destroyed reactor, reached by climbing 78 meters up a spiral staircase. The flag bearers were sent despite the dangers posed by heavy radiation, and after a group of liquidators had already made two failed attempts by helicopter. The radiation expert Alexander Yourtchenko carried the pole, followed by Valéri Starodoumov with the flag, and Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Sotnikov with the radio. The whole operation was timed to last only 9 minutes, given the high radiation levels. At the end, the trio were rewarded with a bottle of Pepsi (a luxury in 1986) and a day off. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2019/06/chernobyl-disaster-photos-1986/590878/
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 03:25:43 PM by Gator »

Online Gator

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2019, 04:32:42 PM »

Remember that those memoirs were written by a Soviet official, during Soviet times. by someone devoted to the Soviet system.  So, they are somewhat suspect.


Not sure of your point.  The memoirs are damning of Soviet mentality.  In the HBO miniseries, Legasov may have started out as a devoted Soviet official, yet he eventually realizes the truth and accuses the Soviet nuclear program as a huge, costly lie. 

Nuclear Engineering International published excerpts of the memoirs.  Legasov stated the accident at Chernobyl was the "apotheosis of all that was wrong in the management of the national economy and had been so for many decades."  Chernobyl may have been inevitable due to how nuclear energy was handled by the Soviet state, everything was built on the cheap. 

 http://www.bustle.com/p/valery-legasovs-chernobyl-memoirs-ensure-this-scientist-will-live-on-long-after-the-hbo-series-ends-17941888

Online krimster2

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2019, 04:45:33 PM »
I had the same feeling Snovum Godum at the children’s hospital in Chernigov
with the tiny shrunken faces wrapped in blankets
I did at Auschwitz years later
the feeling of being lost
yet also being at home

all ist klar,
God, like Elvis, has left the building folks
and he ain’t gonna sing us any more lullaby’s

long time ago, in 1970, Toffler’s wrote “Future Shock”
warning us that the world is changing SO FAST that whatever world you grew up with
are comfortable with, is going to freaking disappear and be changed into something else
and the rate of this change is only going to accelerate

y’all cannot hang on to “Leave it To Beaver”
get used to that
I am a voice in the wilderness trying to warn y’all
that things are gonna get real pretty soon now



вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

Offline BC

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2019, 07:41:54 PM »
I was in Germany at the time. 1000 miles away.  Nightly news with frantic reporting and fallout plots.  Found a lot of four leaf clovers that year.

Bottom line, something got screwed up badly and caused a huge disaster, causing death and long term misery for many, still today.  There are so many reactors out there today it's not about if something similar will happen again but instead when it will happen.  History backs this up and no one is immune.

Lapses in quality assurance and maintenance, inadequate operator training, lack of communication of important safety information, poor management, and complacency.  Sound familiar?  Three Mile Island.  We came close enough ourselves.

Don't feel like getting it stuffed in my face again with a docudrama.

Watched Enjoyed The Andy Griffith Show and an old Twilight Zone episode instead.

Offline ML

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2019, 08:15:01 PM »
Way back when . . . I was in Kyiv on a WMVM trip.

I had several dates with a gal who was born and raised in Siberia.
A young man had been sent from Kyiv to her city by his parents right after Chernobyl as precaution against sterilization and health issues.
They married and later moved to Kyiv, had a son, and later divorced. She remained living in Kyiv.

After my marriage to current UW wife, I just told in passing how I had spent time with a gal from Siberia in Kyiv.   Wife is not at all jealous of anything or anybody.

But upon hearing this small snippet she said:  "What ???  A woman came all the way from Siberia to meet you in Kyiv ??"

So I played with her a bit by saying: "You don't think I am worth a woman coming  that far to see me ??"

She had to backtrack fast and trip over some words !!

Then I told her the complete story as above.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online Gator

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2019, 08:34:34 PM »
I had the same feeling Snovum Godum at the children’s hospital in Chernigov
with the tiny shrunken faces wrapped in blankets

I understand.  Saddest place I have ever been is a children's cancer ward. 

Online krimster2

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2019, 08:44:53 PM »
"Saddest place I have ever been is a children's cancer ward.  "

yeah, so do you still believe in God, I don't, not any more, not after those places....
how do you reconcile the two, legions of suffering children, dead children, and a just god
I just don't see how...
the reality of one proves the unreality of the other
that's the conclusion I arrived at when I was walking aimlessly in the streets of Warsaw late one summer night many years ago...


вы думаете, что любой из этих людей, даже российских, подозревает, что я русский?

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2019, 09:39:42 AM »
"Saddest place I have ever been is a children's cancer ward.  "

yeah, so do you still believe in God, I don't, not any more, not after those places....

Concept of God is taught ion Christianity as three entities.   My answers: 

No, not the complete concept Southern Baptists attempted to imprint in me as a youth. 

No, the second coming, life after death, ...... 
   
Yes, regarding the Creator entity.  However, not the divine creation.  Rather, I celebrate the wonders of nature, how we have evolved over billions of years from basic molecules to humans,  the miracle of birth, .....

Yes and no, the Holy Spirit entity.    Cancer in children -  the cellular mutations that initiate and promote cancer result from imperfections in the whole.  Bad things happen to good people, to quote a rabbi.  You felt compassion, revealing the hardwired goodness of your human soul, in my mind a manifestation of a "Holy Spirit." It is imperative in sharing life on earth.   

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2019, 09:59:27 AM »
"Saddest place I have ever been is a children's cancer ward.  "

yeah, so do you still believe in God, I don't, not any more, not after those places....
how do you reconcile the two, legions of suffering children, dead children, and a just god
I just don't see how...


Some people see horrible things, pray and come closer to God. Others turn their back to God.

You want God to eliminate cancer, disease, death, and all that is bad? You want God to have total control? God doesn't want total control and has allowed people to live their lives and stay out of our lives. Unlike other living creatures, you have control over your actions. Today you can help an elderly woman cross the street. Tomorrow you can go on a mass killing spree. The next day you can donate half your savings to charity to cure cancer for children. Then the day after that you can rape a child. There are man's laws that discourage people from doing bad. Those laws are not enough so some embrace God's laws to help guide them.
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

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Re: Chernobyl on HBO
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2019, 10:21:59 AM »

 

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