It appears you have not registered with our community. To register please click here ...

!!

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion - the most informative site for all things related to serious long-term relationships and marriage to a partner from the Former Soviet Union countries!

Please register (it's free!) to gain full access to the many features and benefits of the site. Welcome!

+-

Author Topic: Crimea joining Russian Federation  (Read 37503 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5684
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #225 on: March 21, 2019, 06:13:01 PM »
Interesting  news -- the FSB figure of actual voter turnout   was approx 34% in that bogus referendum.
That is a long way from  the figures promoted by Russian propaganda.

Even if -- NOTE THE IF !==  the vote from that point equalled the crazy % support claimed by Russia  it is still a minority by some distance . Note also -- what the actual  choices were -- so it looks like the large majority voted with their feet and failed to vote .

That figure above -- also is remarkably close  to  survey numbers taken over the previous years  --also note- I have written about this quite a few times previously.
The myth of overwhelming support for Russian on Krym was just that -- and despite the Russian attempts to repopulate with Russian lackeys chances are that the majority would still not support Russia .
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7859
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #226 on: March 21, 2019, 10:57:18 PM »


I still contend that Crimea resembles and will continue to resemble the Turkish part of Cyprus.     

Just seen this

Absolutely do not agree.

I know both places quite well ..One is officially sanctioned as not to be recognised by the UN, but you can use a 'western  bank card' there.. T'other, the ultimate sanction was vetoed by the very nation that that conducted the military take over

The  Turkish Cypriot's voted for the UN Annan plan and the foolish Geek Cypriot leadership told their people they could get a better deal and rejected a solution.. Thus began a process whereby property resolutions could be officially registered by an 'unrecognised '  state....

Turkish Cypriots might now say, "be careful what you wish for", as they are outnumbered by mainland Turks.who have arrived since 1974...

Crimea's Eth. Russians were placed there long before Khrushchev masses Crimea part of Ukraine SSR in 1954...

If anything, Crimea's isolation is more complete..





No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Offline Jamesukjames

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 736
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking 3-5 years
  • Trips: 4 - 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #227 on: March 22, 2019, 01:51:53 AM »
Plus you forgot usa started to talk about basing missiles on Crimea and other military installations.  So Russia made sure that did not happen.  Both the usa and ussr are selfish super powers who hopefully balance each other in their game of chess.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5684
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #228 on: March 22, 2019, 02:46:47 AM »
 :cluebat:James :cluebat:.   Absolutely rubbish piece of stupidity. :cluebat :cluebat:


Plus you forgot usa started to talk about basing missiles on Crimea and other military installations.  So Russia made sure that did not happen. Both the usa and ussr are selfish super powers who hopefully balance each other in their game of chess.

That comment has zero foundation( other than in Russian propaganda) -- just plain ignorance  and you are stupid enough to believe it ! .  If you and Trenchcoat are not the same idiot -- comments like that and the sentence following sure puts you in with a good chance of idiotic post of the year.
Anyone -- and I mean anyone -- that equates the US with Russia is a full on idiot. The US is far from perfect -- and has it;s problems right now ( plenty here cannot see it)  -- but the decency of the USA  cannot be put in the same category as the kleptocracy in Russia.
Russia has invaded Ukraine -- the massive loss of life and way of life for millions of Ukrainians and the suffering ALL Ukrainians are faced with as a result of the disgusting actions of Russia .
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 04:11:07 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7859
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #229 on: March 22, 2019, 05:33:25 AM »
James, James, James....You are the 'useful idiot' of RT, Sputnik et al's dreams...

You DO know that before The Kremlin stunt in Crimea the opposition parties in Ukraine agreed on non aligned status and NATO membership was NEVER on the table?

« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 01:06:40 PM by msmob »
No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online Wayne

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 925
  • Country: us
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Looking 1-2 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #230 on: March 22, 2019, 10:11:47 AM »
Poo ten was in Simferopol on 18 March 2019 for the five year celebration of the take-over. It is a big holiday in Crimea. My wife wrote me that the streets were closed off so she could not go to our dacha.

The beach area near our dacha is being destroyed for the sake of the new military road.

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5684
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #231 on: March 24, 2019, 01:45:30 AM »
Very interesting reading.It was not possible at that time to defend the invasion --every arm of the government was hopelessly conflicted - government members,the entire military,the SBU  down to local government and people -- who were either loyal to Russia  or undecided which way the should jump--it created an impossible situation for many.
Today -the situation would be entirely different ( to a large degree) . Back in 2014 day by day more Ukrainians followed their hearts and the rise of Ukraine had many decide they wanted to be Ukrainian in a free and democratic Ukraine. Today the military is a totally different organisation-- many much younger leaders and patriotic -leading the largest army in Europe. If that was the case back in 2014-Russia would not have dared invade.
FWIW -- I believe the correct decision was made not to escalate the situation --it would have led to a pointless loss of life. In the following months --it was only the patriotic volunteers that flew into the fight in eastern Ukraine that  took on the Russian military machine that gave the army time to get organised -- I should say into a semblance of organisation. It was only the intervention of full on Russian military that prevented all their forces being pushed out of Ukraine -- and the basic stalemate of today resulted.That has bought Ukraine time-- and prevented a wider invasion.

Debates still erupt in Ukraine on whether the post-Euromaidan government made the right decision to restrain from military conflict in Crimea: as we all know, the military conflict in Ukraine started in Donbas, not from the Russian occupation of Crimea. But at that time, Ukraine, still reeling from the Euromaidan revolution and flight of ex-President Yanukovych, needed at least some time to improve the extremely low combat capability of its armed forces and redeploy troops in order to secure all 1974 kilometers of the border with Russia in the East.

At the onset of Russian aggression on 21 February 2014, 20,000 Russian soldiers were already in Crimea and 38,000 more stood along the Ukrainian border in the East. Meanwhile, only 5,000 Ukrainian troops were combat ready. The Ukrainian government had several weeks to mobilize and prepare the rest of its forces while Russia was preparing to hold its sham referendum. Critics say it could have acted.


Could Ukraine have fought off Crimean occupation? A crucial document you should know


Five years ago this week, Russia was finishing its illegal annexation of Crimea, trying to legitimize it by a so-called referendum.

 The annexation was going on for a whole month from 20 February 2014, until Russia established full control over the peninsula. However, during this whole month, the 15,000 Ukrainian troops located in Crimea didnt shoot to defend themselves and the peninsula from the Russian invasion.

 A transcript of the National Security and Defense Council (RNBO) meeting held on 28 February 2014, which we publish below, reveals the real state of Ukraine at the end of February 2014 and allows judging whether Ukraines decision to not protect Crimea by force was right

. How many Ukrainian soldiers were actually prepared to resist the Russian green men in the Crimea and who betrayed Ukraine? What did the western partners advise Ukrainian authorities to do? What did the Ukrainian politicians propose and decide and could they have stopped the Russian invasion of Crimea?


http://euromaidanpress.com/2019/03/24/could-ukraine-have-fought-off-crimean-occupation-a-crucial-document-you-should-know/
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5684
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #232 on: March 25, 2019, 02:36:47 AM »
Video  from 2014  -- not exactly an acclamation for the Russian invasion.


Days after Ukraines president was toppled from power during the Euromaidan revolution, Russian soldiers and local proxies took control of the strategically important Crimean peninsula and surrounded Ukrainian troops in their bases. Unhappy with the change in government in Kiev and using the unfounded fear of the Russian language being restricted, Russia made a bid for control in the region.
 
Following an illegal and fraudulent referendum on whether Crimea would become a part of Russia or not, Russia then formally annexed the peninsula a move which was widely condemned by the international community. Russia had, in one quick and mostly bloodless takeover, reminded the world of its power, and made the West in its poor handling of the situation appear weak.
 
VICE News headed to Crimea to see how the change in rulers has gone down with the local population. Some residents welcomed Russia and the prospect of a greater economic future, while others feared losing their freedom to speak out, and did not like the idea of becoming pawns in Russia's military muscle flexing.

SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7859
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #233 on: March 25, 2019, 04:12:48 AM »
Jays

Why would ANYONE  waste their time creating or reposting such nonsense.

1/ There were more RUSSIAN forces on the peninsula

2/ It would have had to have been retaken by force

So, we can expect Ukrainian forces to retake Donbas...?

Such a shame...air thought your days of posting daft articles were past (





No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Offline JayH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5684
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: > 10
Five Years Later, Putin Is Paying for Crimea
« Reply #234 on: March 25, 2019, 07:01:02 PM »

Putting it simply -the more successful Ukraine is in getting to be a free market  democracy -the greater the chance  and sooner Crimea will return to Ukraine.


Five Years Later, Putin Is Paying for Crimea

His overconfidence after the successful annexation lured him into a trap where he lost all bargaining power.


The annexation was a crime; what followed was, from a realpolitik point of view, an error of judgment. Putin, egged on by military and intelligence analysts who believed Ukraine was divided into politically incompatible Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking areas, decided to try splitting off eastern Ukraine. He did it both as revenge for the 2014 Revolution of Dignity, which he considered a U.S.-inspired coup, and as an additional buffer against the new Ukrainian governments ambition to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

It was meant to be another low-cost operation: Send in some weapons and instructors, the Kremlin thinking went, and local rebels and their helpers from the Russian ultranationalist movement would split off Ukraines majority Russian-speaking east and south. The West would present no serious opposition, as it hadnt with Crimea. Economic costs, too, would be minimal: Ukraines industrial might was concentrated in the Russian-speaking regions.

This time, though, the Ukrainian government put up a fight. A feeble one, to be sure, given that the countrys military never believed it would actually have to fight a war. But it soon transpired that the ragtag bands of local goons and Russian military reconstructors faced defeat without more Russian help. Russia sent troops to defeat the Ukrainian military at key junctions in 2014 and 2015 and, crucially, it also sent the missile launcher that accidentally downed a passenger plane, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, on July 17, 2014. The death of the 298 passengers and crew made sure Putins second Ukraine gamble would not be low cost.

http://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-16/russia-s-annexation-of-crimea-5-years-ago-has-cost-putin-dearly
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Online msmob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7859
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #235 on: March 25, 2019, 07:26:17 PM »
Putin ..and the leaders before have deliberately created frozen conflicts in regions they wished to control

They believe it is a cost worth paying

Crimea is not such a case..  Most Crimean's believe they are Russian and that is because they are descendants of those planted there to outnumber Tatars


You have as much chance of seeing Crimea back with Ukraine...as N.Ireland being part of a united Ireland..as a consequence..

How it happened was wrong and The Kremlin must pay..but it cannot give it back...

Dream on ((




No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Offline ML

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9250
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Ukraine
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #236 on: March 30, 2019, 10:34:07 AM »
Ukraine should NOT want Crimea back.
Aside from the potential of the offshore oil, Crimea is a drain on the budget of whomever controls it.

And with a majority ethnic Russian population, and their traitorous vote to join Russia (yes, I know it wasn't as great a percent as Putin claimed) . . . Crimea would be a serious divisive part of Ukraine and the people there a real PIA.

Would be good if the ethnic Ukrainians in Crimea could be relocated into mainland Ukraine.
Seems to be no viable good options for the native Tatars.
Winston Churchill.  The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Offline Boethius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2039
  • Country: 00
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: No Selection
  • Trips: No Selection
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #237 on: March 30, 2019, 10:39:11 AM »
People did ok there with tourism.  There were lots of ships that docked along the Black Sea cities.  But, it was a PITA before it was invaded as well.


I agree, it's gone, it's not a bad thing, for Ukraine, but Russia should remain under sanctions and Crimea isolated because in this day and age, you don't annex territory by invasion.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Offline Grumpy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Moldova
  • Status: Looking > 5 years
  • Trips: None (yet)
Re: Crimea joining Russian Federation
« Reply #238 on: June 18, 2019, 08:53:18 PM »
Interesting article on Crimea:
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/06/some-crimeans-who-cheered-russia-have-buyers-remorse/591739/

Superficially, the peninsula is flourishing under Russian rule. Moscow has built a huge new airport here in Simferopol and tethered Crimea to the Russian mainland with a 1.4-mile suspension bridge over the Kerch Strait. McMansions are popping up everywhere. Crimeas economy was the fastest-growing in Russia so far this yearat least according to data collated by the Russian Institute for Strategic Studies, a think tank with close ties to the Kremlin. By 2022, on the institutes projections, Moscow will have plowed $13 billion into the territory.

But the new wealth is not evenly spread. While Crimeas construction and manufacturing sectorsthe ones that benefit most from Moscows huge infrastructure investmentshave expanded by 20 percent since last year, agriculture, retail, and services have grown far more modestly, by 3 percent. Outside the often-corrupt elite, private enterprise has collapsed; 90 percent of small businesses have folded since 2014.

On the one hand, there has been enormous Russian investment: Moscow has spent way more in Crimea than the West has spent on Ukraine, says Andrew Wilson, a Ukrainian-studies professor at University College London. But there has been a lopsided result, and ordinary Crimeans are squeezed in the middle.
Good women are not cheap
Cheap women are not good
(but they can be a lot of fun)

 

+-RWD Stats

Members
Total Members: 9990
Latest: MatroskinFM
New This Month: 4
New This Week: 3
New Today: 1
Stats
Total Posts: 496468
Total Topics: 19514
Most Online Today: 3368
Most Online Ever: 12701
(January 14, 2020, 07:04:55 AM)
Users Online
Members: 36
Guests: 1652
Total: 1688

+-Recent Posts

Re: Altai Krai? by DCcowboy
Today at 09:36:55 AM

Re: Operation White Panther by SANDRO43
Today at 07:58:39 AM

Re: FOR HISTORY BUFFS by SANDRO43
Today at 07:28:50 AM

Re: Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 04:42:43 AM

Re: Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 04:29:50 AM

Re: Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 04:22:25 AM

Re: Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 04:11:30 AM

Re: Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 04:07:35 AM

Re: Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 03:56:52 AM

Starting and Running a Business in the Republic of Georgia, Batumi by Maxx2
Today at 03:33:38 AM

Powered by EzPortal