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Author Topic: Did I Screw Up?  (Read 11089 times)

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Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #300 on: October 31, 2019, 01:39:16 PM »

Your coach didn't understand women well.


The vast majority of women do date men one at a time, unless they are dating very casually.  There are always outliers in everything in life, but your description is not the norm in female behaviour.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

They may not actually get with the other guy(s) in the pool or next branch, but I have had had this happen to varying extents and see it occasionally.

At the moment there is a girl who started where I work a few months ago. She was the one who first initiated conversation with me and continued to do so for a number of weeks. She's shown interest in me both in this manner and visually, plus the odd clue here & there.

Yet she has a bf and what more lives with him in a small rented flat. I get the impression that while she is not wanting to break up with him here and now she is also not especially set on him.

Can I go for her, I could, I could up my game, but it's a big no, no, even I know that. It would mean that we both would be ready to pick up & drop on the fly with no loyalty which would likely end up finishing any relationship started. She essentially would have to split up with her bf and him probably move out, first. If I were to ask her out and she accepted that would be cheating, so a no go.

She no doubt knows all of this so she knows she can keep dating her bf and keep me in reserve as either in her pool of guys or the next branch. I'm pretty sure she hasn't got a big pool of guys in reserve as she is not one for extrovert entertainment unlike a lot of girls.

I don't blame girls for doing this, if you can then I'm sure most people would. I have been one of the guys in reserve for some pretty hot girls over time, but never landed one of these hotties as they pick the guy they see as coming top end in terms of looks, social skills, wealth, etc which I have not. For the hottest girls it can be a case of the more guys they can have interested in them the more their status rises. They know that's how they get the best choice if they can do so, not all girls can - the least attractive girls won't be able to pool guys. At the end of the day though women use this method to get a choice and choose the guy they want rather than have no options at hand if a relationship fails.
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Offline ML

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #301 on: October 31, 2019, 01:46:27 PM »
WOW, I didn't know this was so complicated and planned out !!!
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online Trenchcoat

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #302 on: October 31, 2019, 02:02:49 PM »
WOW, I didn't know this was so complicated and planned out !!!

I think for women it is or becomes pretty obvious and straight forward, probably almost subconscious, a learned behaviour that is seen as natural and straight forward. I think its more like they get to know a guy or give a guy the eye they like but they know nothing may come of it, it doesn't bother them nor do they expend much effort usually. Some just chat to guys as friends and acquaintances and don't care if it doesn't evolve into anything. It's not a guaranteed thing for them but they know subconsciously at least that they can take comfort from that pool of guys being there. They don't know if all are necessarily available but should they become single one of them sooner or later will likely stump up.

That's why even reasonably attractive girls can change bf's more often than they change their underwear.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #303 on: October 31, 2019, 02:12:50 PM »
Women are conditioned to be "nice", to not hurt others' feelings, to not rock the boat, etc.. 


When I was young, I often had men like you, Trench, assume that talking to them, and showing interest in what they actually said, was a come on.  It never was in my case. I never flirted with other men.  I never had an interest in any other man, ever, ever, ever, once I met the better half.  But, I was interested in what others (men and women) had to say, and I navigated the world of men.  Most of my colleagues are, and were, men.  Most of my clients are men. 


There is a very slight chance that girl is flirting with you and wants more from you.  But, it is more likely nothing more than a little flirting, or just feigning interest because that is what "nice" girls do. 


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To love someone means to see him as God intended him. - Fyodor Dostoevksy

Online BillyB

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #304 on: October 31, 2019, 05:09:25 PM »
It looks like Mamba is not really an option for finding FSU women in the US.


There are tons of FSU women on Mamba located in the US. I'm surprised you're only finding a few in your area. Trench may have a point there's now a cost and less people will sign up but like any dating or marriage site, the place is a tool and some guys use the tool better than others. Regardless what sites you end up using, if you use it better than the other guys, you will increase your chances of success.

Billy I am reading your epic thread and i am fascinated by your adventure. But even more fascinated by the behavior of your commentors and armchair quarterbacks sniping and haranguing you every step of the way. It is a revealing study in human nature and how the group punishes the individual who dares step out of line. Lol


One of the best things about the thread is those who read it learn about themselves. I knew it would upset people but I also knew it would not upset people from the FSU. You will see people read the same thing and some people are fine with it and others go berserk. Pay attention and you will see FSU women not bothered by how I handled my dating life and some Westerners were very bothered. All is fair in love and war but some still have their rules. Some hated my rules and some respected me for doing whatever it took to find the best person for my life. I did not disclose everything either. It would've drove some people really mad.

I wrote my thread in real time. Many people wait till they get into a relationship before writing their report of success. I knew I was going to be successful in the end. I was successful as a single man and gave myself a lot of women to choose from so I knew when I make a decision, it would blow people's minds. If you haven't finished the thread, the attacks gets worse and the praise gets better.

Although I knew I'd be successful, I didn't know exactly who it be with. I almost passed up my wife. I had set up an agreement with two girls from Russia to live with me. During college break, they were coming to America on a work travel visa. A girl living in Libya asked me to visit her during her vacation in Ukraine. I told that girl I need to learn more about her before making that decision. The two college girls made a stop in NY to visit friends. They told me their friends convinced them to stay in NY and work there so they weren't coming to stay with me. Although I was dating other women at home, I decided to see the girl from Libya in Ukraine. It went well and now she's my wife. Never know what fate has in store. My wife knows I been dating other women during my early communications with her. She knows man has needs but she's not jealous.

Relationships may not last forever and if mine doesn't, I know I can do what you're reading in my thread again and again and again and blow people's minds with the girl I end up with. That thread eventually gets locked due to fighting but I continued the story in these threads.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14829.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19800.0
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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #305 on: November 08, 2019, 11:35:40 AM »
I am intrigued by the WM/VM approach even though I am not ready to make another trip. I am thinking about changing my strategy.

I figure if I do a visit I need to stay around 4 weeks or more to really get deeper into the process.

Also how many women do you think I would need to line up for a VM approach 10? 15?

Also if I go the plan b route are there any suggestions for a plan b? Agencies? Meet them there on the street? If so is there any recommended?

How about AFA socials? I know AFA may have a bad reputation on here understandably and I know they are PPL and I would not do that. But I have heard that you can get quite a few contacts at a social. And this does appear like an opportunity to meet the woman and get face to face with her in the beginning and start the vetting process. What do you guys think?

Online Gator

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #306 on: November 08, 2019, 12:05:45 PM »
My first  trip happened in 1986 to meet a Dutch embassy friend.   My first trip to meet women came in 2002, and I spent a month visiting Kiev, Crimea, St. Petersburg, and Moscow.

I spent months before talking with multiple women in each area.  I selected one primary woman in each city, who had promised to take a couple of days off from work to spend with me.  I had a secondary choice as backup, and managed to meet all of them plus some others.  Usually this was just for lunch in downtime, yet one became an eager replacement.     

Three women expressed much interest and we continued to talk after my return to the US. 

That was a long time ago when women were keen to met foreigners.  I don't know if my plan would work today.     

Online BillyB

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #307 on: November 08, 2019, 03:11:43 PM »
I am intrigued by the WM/VM approach even though I am not ready to make another trip.


Before writing women overseas, you should have an idea on when you can make a trip. You should be willing to change your game plan if necessary. I wrote very many. I was willing to date a few in a city or if I found a high quality woman, I was willing to give her all my attention should I plan to visit and keep the others as backup plans. Go ahead and communicate with many women but if you find a winner, you better be ready to make a trip before another guy does.

Also if I go the plan b route are there any suggestions for a plan b? Agencies? Meet them there on the street? If so is there any recommended?


Agencies can be a plan B but I found I could be busy enough meeting women on the street or using dating sites online. If I tried hard enough, I could get three phone numbers a day which would lead to 3 dates a day.

How about AFA socials? I know AFA may have a bad reputation on here understandably and I know they are PPL and I would not do that. But I have heard that you can get quite a few contacts at a social. And this does appear like an opportunity to meet the woman and get face to face with her in the beginning and start the vetting process. What do you guys think?

Some women who go to socials aren't serious but go there because they're curious or for the free food, and who knows, they may land a man. There are also good time girls, green card girls, and gold diggers at those events. Those women are aggressive and tend to hog the attention. Some quiet sincere women end up leaving crying. I've never been to a social but these are some of the horror stories I've read on forums. It's worked for some men though.
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Online scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #308 on: November 10, 2019, 10:55:58 PM »
Thanks. That makes sense.

Online 2tallbill

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Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #309 on: November 11, 2019, 10:00:23 AM »
I am intrigued by the WM/VM approach even though I am not ready to make another trip. I am thinking about changing my strategy.

I figure if I do a visit I need to stay around 4 weeks or more to really get deeper into the process.

Also how many women do you think I would need to line up for a VM approach 10? 15?

Also if I go the plan b route are there any suggestions for a plan b? Agencies? Meet them there on the street? If so is there any recommended?

How about AFA socials? I know AFA may have a bad reputation on here understandably and I know they are PPL and I would not do that. But I have heard that you can get quite a few contacts at a social. And this does appear like an opportunity to meet the woman and get face to face with her in the beginning and start the vetting process. What do you guys think?


I start outlining my view of the VM process on reply #36, but read the entire thread.
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.25

Short version: Pick a nice sized city, buy tickets and rent an apartment.
A week before you get on a plane, ask 50-100 women to meet you for
tea.

Don't meet any women the first time for dinner on top of the tallest building.
Meet in a cafe, have coffee or tea and cake if you need to sweeten the deal.
If you have chemistry and you think that she's the real deal, then you ask
her out again. If you don't, lose her contact information, I don't care if she's
the hottest woman you've ever seen.

Don't date a so-so girl twice. You can find a so-so girl at home. Pursuing FSUW
is so that you can find an exceptional girl.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

The advantage to this is that you see if you have chemistry up front. The
disadvantage, is that you have to come back soon and get to know the
girl with the chemistry.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #310 on: November 11, 2019, 11:26:07 AM »
I would add to that, have a small token of your esteem to share with her.   Even if you are meeting only for tea.  It could be flowers.  It could be a small box of chocolates brought from home.   Any time you meet a woman, it is important to focus on the little things that will peak her interest.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Online Patagonie

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #311 on: November 11, 2019, 02:09:26 PM »
I am intrigued by the WM/VM approach even though I am not ready to make another trip. I am thinking about changing my strategy.

I figure if I do a visit I need to stay around 4 weeks or more to really get deeper into the process.

Also how many women do you think I would need to line up for a VM approach 10? 15?

Also if I go the plan b route are there any suggestions for a plan b? Agencies? Meet them there on the street? If so is there any recommended?

How about AFA socials? I know AFA may have a bad reputation on here understandably and I know they are PPL and I would not do that. But I have heard that you can get quite a few contacts at a social. And this does appear like an opportunity to meet the woman and get face to face with her in the beginning and start the vetting process. What do you guys think?
Forget about AFA entirely, they bring every women possible, the most genuine ones will feel so ashamed that they will hide at a corner while the most naked ones, pro, scammers will hit on you, or maybe some translators invited to do the job.

Choose a city is a strategy i used, but you need to choose FIRST the city, carefully, and AFTER you work on the girls. And if you want to use an agency, so you choose the city accordingly to the agency BECAUSE this a good agency (do your homework before). It doesn't prevent you to get some butter in the pasta by chasing through social applications, dating sites or events or coffees or whatever you want. And also maybe prepare a good terp, easy to find. Choose an old lady in her fourties or fifties. Every scammers will run away so fast seing her that bystanders will get a cold.

If you mix all i said and stay one month you will not probably do more than 15 meetings, depends if you have the complex of the candy store and your social skills. Generally after less than 10 meetings you find one you like and you decide to make a stop on her. After one or two weeks you start to realize that is not gonna to work and you restart dating.

Don't forget that dating is emotionally highly tiring, or you do it that like drinking a beer. I think that is disrespecting girls and the time and money you have put in the trip of course.
What happens also generally is that western men are so submerged by the caring provided by a FSU woman that they fall for her, a mistake of course.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 02:20:54 PM by Patagonie »
Read : "Operation white panther"
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Online msmob

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #312 on: November 12, 2019, 06:32:41 AM »
Unless you are confident, the VM approach is a waste of time ..

It is madness to pitch up in a city and to hope to get dates - if you lack in confidence and your Russian is poor

Beel has confidence and knows basic Russian

*I* am not lacking in confidence and *I* found the VM  approach to be v.tiring and too much of a llogistical ( time-wise) nightmare ..


You'll need a spreadsheet to remember their ( if they have any ) kid's names - otherwise you'll appear inattentive / not interested

This is MY advice based on MY experience of attempting VM in Kyiv in 2004 - it was only a 3 hour flight from Cyprus and I could do weekends away
No to Brexit, Yes to a People's Vote on Brexit, THEN a General Election

Online scarface816

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #313 on: November 12, 2019, 01:27:22 PM »
Thanks. This gives me a lot to think about. And I am still spending some time with a local girl right now. So i want to see how this develops. But i still have that itch. Don't know what it is. Hmmmmm...

Online Patagonie

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #314 on: November 12, 2019, 02:39:41 PM »
Unless you are confident, the VM approach is a waste of time ..

It is madness to pitch up in a city and to hope to get dates - if you lack in confidence and your Russian is poor

Beel has confidence and knows basic Russian

*I* am not lacking in confidence and *I* found the VM  approach to be v.tiring and too much of a llogistical ( time-wise) nightmare ..


You'll need a spreadsheet to remember their ( if they have any ) kid's names - otherwise you'll appear inattentive / not interested

This is MY advice based on MY experience of attempting VM in Kyiv in 2004 - it was only a 3 hour flight from Cyprus and I could do weekends away
We have difference of opinions of course with MSOB lol but some of his remarks are pertinent.
If you are not capable to manage high stress and high emotions, if you dislike incomfort in your life maybe VM is not for you.
You should have also some confidence, more than average chaps.

Read : "Operation white panther"
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline ML

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #315 on: November 12, 2019, 02:54:31 PM »
Unless you are confident, the VM approach is a waste of time ..

It is madness to pitch up in a city and to hope to get dates - if you lack in confidence and your Russian is poor

Beel has confidence and knows basic Russian

*I* am not lacking in confidence and *I* found the VM  approach to be v.tiring and too much of a logistical ( time-wise) nightmare ..


You'll need a spreadsheet to remember their ( if they have any ) kid's names - otherwise you'll appear inattentive / not interested

This is MY advice based on MY experience of attempting VM in Kyiv in 2004 - it was only a 3 hour flight from Cyprus and I could do weekends away

I did VM many times . . . and with 12 or more women each time.
I did not have the problems listed above.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #316 on: November 13, 2019, 02:38:52 AM »
Perhaps they didn't all want to meet you again? )
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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #317 on: November 13, 2019, 06:53:05 AM »
Isn't that the point of the excercise?

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #318 on: November 13, 2019, 07:58:28 AM »
Perhaps they didn't all want to meet you again? )

I only recall 2 out of hundreds who declined my invitation for a 2nd or 3rd date.
I didn't extend such invitation for most of the first date gals.

One of these 2 (in declining 3rd meeting) even hinted that I was not good enough at sex (which happened on 2nd date).

However, in my defense, it was mostly her fault because she wanted to give me instructions, etc., which messed up my performance.
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #319 on: November 13, 2019, 08:47:36 AM »
Perhaps they didn't all want to meet you again? )

I would think the feeling mutual. 

Not having the luxury of a mere 3-hour flight, I chose VM to increase the probability of finding someone special.   A woman may look great on paper and in photos, and she may seem intriguing on Skype, yet the all important factor of "chemistry" requires spending time together, for which there is no substitute. 

Going VM also avoids becoming too optimistic about what is literally a blind date.  Optimism can blind me from flaws. 

Did VM thrice.  Each time I found someone with whom I pursued in future meetings on an exclusive basis.  Each time there were a couple of women for whom I held some hope, only to have the hope dash within an hour if not minutes. 

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #320 on: November 13, 2019, 08:53:26 AM »
In recognition of VM VO advocates, I recall three of RWD's best love stories being a WOVO.  They happened before Skype and the correspondence lasted months and months.   The fact that two people would be willing to dedicate such time for lengthy, frequent, interesting and heart-filled letters says something about their compatibility.

[edited to correct that I meant to write VO ]
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 11:21:14 AM by Gator »

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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #321 on: November 13, 2019, 09:00:05 AM »
In recognition of VM advocates, I recall three of RWD's best love stories being a WOVO.  They happened before Skype and the correspondence lasted months and months.   The fact that two people would be willing to dedicate such time for lengthy, frequent, interesting and heart-filled letters says something about their compatibility.

Did you mean to say 'VO advocates?'
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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #322 on: November 13, 2019, 11:03:14 AM »
I am intrigued by the WM/VM approach even though I am not ready to make another trip. I am thinking about changing my strategy.

I figure if I do a visit I need to stay around 4 weeks or more to really get deeper into the process.

Also how many women do you think I would need to line up for a VM approach 10? 15?

Also if I go the plan b route are there any suggestions for a plan b? Agencies? Meet them there on the street? If so is there any recommended?

How about AFA socials? I know AFA may have a bad reputation on here understandably and I know they are PPL and I would not do that. But I have heard that you can get quite a few contacts at a social. And this does appear like an opportunity to meet the woman and get face to face with her in the beginning and start the vetting process. What do you guys think?

For VM Scarface you are going to have to be able to turf up the number of girls this approach needs. I generally can't do it in most FSU cities, I met 2 women using this approach over the course of 2 weeks holiday in Lviv. Lviv is a small city in western Ukraine. A far better place would be Moscow, it's by far the biggest city in the whole of the FSU, millions live there. So that is where an everyday day looking guy like me could meet many more women, but a lot will be career women and/or have way higher expectations so it would be best if you earned a lot if you went there.

Visit ones are nice but the odds of meeting a girl where there is chemistry is low. It's really a numbers thing. If a girl seems compatible in communication and her interests that might raise the odds possibly.

I don't think tours are a bad idea BUT they are probably best after you have met a few FSW so you know the types of women you can get and what you are dealing with. All of the above comments on tours I can imagine are pretty accurate. You will need to suss out pretty quickly the good girls from the bad, or the agency & scammer girls from the everyday nice girls and not get caught up in the flashiness of the 'hotties' there.

If you've not watched it already the 2014 documentary 'Love Me' gives a good insight into the romance tours. Basically one guy got caught by a scammer girl while another got a nice character but not all that attractive looking girl. Another guy got a nice girl who wanted a better life and since he earned a bit they kind of went well together also.

I may well try a tour next year as you get the women up there. I've got a fair bit of experience at FSU dating so know what to avoid. It's one way of getting the numbers up but of course costs a bit more and cones with the pitfalls pointed out above.

Should also add SF that a lot of the guys going on the tours are quite old. While anyone could have a realistic chance the odds of a young girl in her twenties wanting to genuinely get with a guy in his sixties or older are not good. Hence why they get attention there not so likely from genuine girls but the scammers, even younger guys however may fall prey to the scammer girls as they can shine brighter. I recall SF you are about 45, that's ok for the tour but I'll'd say be realistic with girls you could get.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 12:59:43 PM by Trenchcoat »
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Re: Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #323 on: November 13, 2019, 11:18:14 AM »
Did you mean to say 'VO advocates?'

Corrected, thanks.  Multi-tasking.

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Did I Screw Up?
« Reply #324 on: November 13, 2019, 02:45:54 PM »
And I am still spending some time with a local girl right now. So i want to see how this develops. But i still have that itch. Don't know what it is. Hmmmmm...

That's because the local girl is a so-so girl, but gives you
some sex. If the local girl was a Holy crap! This might be
the perfect girl for me! Then we would have never heard
from you again.

In my opinion, the local girl is a time waster, both for you
and for her.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

 

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