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Author Topic: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights  (Read 4075 times)

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Offline SteveInBoston

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2019, 10:21:08 PM »
You clicked on the Microsoft link and failed to comprehend it and then proceeded to spread misinformation about what Microsoft said. I hope you're not an educator educating kids.

Again, please stop with the misinformation and stop trying to deflect your actions to someone else.  The academic version you refer to requires a sign up and verification from an academic institution.  Here is the text, from the Microsoft's website link you provided:

Get Office 365 free for your entire school
Improve classroom and school collaboration with free productivity tools. You will need to verify that you are an accredited academic institution to take advantage of these offers.


In a previous post you said Office 365 was based off yearly subscription fees.  Fees are monthly on the A3 and A5 packages and the A1 package has no fees . All packages allows unlimited users and Microsoft doesn't say who those users need to be, just the person signing up has to be in school.

If you are going to refer to my previous post then please do not distort it.  I stated, specifically, "Each account is payed in monthly or yearly subscriptions.  Monthly for business accounts, yearly for home users."

I did not comment on the academic version, but since we are discussing it now, for the version A3 and A5 the fees are listed on the website as Per User/Month, but with a yearly commitment.  In effect, it is a yearly subscription, payed in monthly installments.

Again from the website:

Office 365 A3
$2.50
user/month
(annual commitment)

Office 365 A5
$6.00
user/month
(annual commitment)


Each plan, A1, A3 or A5, allow unlimited users.  For A1, which is free, the number of users makes no difference. 

For A3 and A5, each user signed up for the plan has to pay a fee.  It is not 1 fee for unlimited users.  Each person has to be accounted for as being part of the organization that registered for the academic version. 

Individuals cannot sign up for these plans (A1, A3 and A5).  The plan administrator for the academic institution has to add that person to the plan, and pay the fee for A3 or A5.


On the "Students and teachers, sign up yourself " link in that page, Microsoft will, in effect, give any student or faculty with a valid school email account a free version of Office 365 - the exact same version as A1.  Web version only.


Wrong. The Microsoft page I provided offers the A1, A3, and A5 packages for students only. In the upper left corner above the A1 Package, click on "staff and faculty" button. There you will be taken to another page to see all three packages specifically for faculty and staff. They have a free A1 package option too or they can pay a couple dollars more than students for their respective A3, and A5 packages. ML's wife, a professor, may be interested in one of those packages.

Please read what the website states.  The faculty versions are the same exact packages as the student versions, but at different cost for A3 and A5. 

Only package A1 is free, and it is free for both.  But, as I stated previously, it is limited to online:  Web versions of Word, PowerPoint, Excel, OneNote, and Outlook .  It does offer a desktop version of OneNote, but OneNote only.

ML's wife can sign up for A1 if her school has registered with Microsoft.  For A3 and A5, she will need to contact the office product administrator of her school.

Earlier you mention there is no Office 365 lifetime. Microsoft offers that but charges a one time fee for it and only offers it in a Home and student version for $150. I suspect that is the number Microsoft writes off per person using free or near free versions of Office 365. Probably why they continue to allow it to sell on Ebay. The sales may or may not break their rules but at a $150 value a pop, they're financially benefiting listing each copy used as a loss or charitable contribution on their tax return.

http://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?&activetab=1


Please, take time to read the product information in the link you provided.  From the website:

Office Home & Student 2019
$149.99
Buy now
One-time purchase


The one time purchase version is Office 2019, not Office 365.  And it only contains MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint.


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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2019, 11:33:25 PM »
Each person has to be accounted for as being part of the organization that registered for the academic version. 


You're making rules up that aren't there. Microsoft says the person who signs up has to be in school. Microsoft doesn't define who the unlimited people in their plan have to be. I doubt Microsoft has the time to verify unlimited people.

The one time purchase version is Office 2019, not Office 365.  And it only contains MS Word, Excel and Powerpoint.


It's under Microsoft's "Get the most from Office with Office 365" page. The reason the one time purchase and own it forever version doesn't have 365 in the name like the others is because it's not a yearly(365 day) subscription.

Why get mad at me? Get mad at Microsoft for ALLOWING their product to be sold on Ebay for almost nothing. Microsoft, like everybody else, has a limit on charitable contributions they can claim on their tax returns. You can be one of those unlimited people in a qualified person's Office 365 plan for cheap and help Microsoft achieve their limit on charitable contributions which in turn helps reduce their taxes paid to zero or you can pay full price and help Microsoft make money so they can pay more taxes. They win either way. You have a choice if you want to win or lose.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 11:35:47 PM by BillyB »
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2019, 01:06:09 AM »
As usual, when Silly Billy is wrong, he'll argue black is white  rather than admitting it ;)


We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2019, 01:41:11 AM »
As usual, when Silly Billy is wrong, he'll argue black is white  rather than admitting it ;)
Aren’t you describing yourself?

Offline SteveInBoston

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2019, 06:40:25 PM »
You're making rules up that aren't there. Microsoft says the person who signs up has to be in school. Microsoft doesn't define who the unlimited people in their plan have to be. I doubt Microsoft has the time to verify unlimited people.

The page you linked is for the "Sign up your School" academic product page.  There is a separate page for students and teachers to sign up by themselves, to a product that is almost identical to the A1 package, but not the same. 

That product requires the school to apply for a product contract.  It is similar to the business Office365 package (not the home office version).  You contact a representative, they provide a form to fill out and send you a proposal to enter into the institution's accounting system. Once the terms and conditions is signed, then someone or someones from the institution is designated as the plan administrator.  That person is given a product dashboard to add/remove or modify plan participants.

I have not been directly involved with the academic version, but have overseen our company's transition from Office 2013 and Office 2016 (we had a mix of product users) to Office365.  I have contacts with people at NorthEastern and Tufts universities - they have stated that the academic version works the same way.



It's under Microsoft's "Get the most from Office with Office 365" page. The reason the one time purchase and own it forever version doesn't have 365 in the name like the others is because it's not a yearly(365 day) subscription.

Why get mad at me? Get mad at Microsoft for ALLOWING their product to be sold on Ebay for almost nothing. Microsoft, like everybody else, has a limit on charitable contributions they can claim on their tax returns. You can be one of those unlimited people in a qualified person's Office 365 plan for cheap and help Microsoft achieve their limit on charitable contributions which in turn helps reduce their taxes paid to zero or you can pay full price and help Microsoft make money so they can pay more taxes. They win either way. You have a choice if you want to win or lose.

Office 365 is a continually updated product, and users get the latest version as long as their subscription remains active.   

Office 2019 is not the same as Office 365.  It is a major release version.  Microsoft releases a major version of Office every 3 years or so.  The product is the current version of Office until Office 2022 or 2023 is released (there was a 4 year gap between Office 2003 and Office 2007).  When the new version of office is released, Office 2019 will be obsolete.

However, it doesn't mean Office 2019 will not be usable after the next version.  Our company used Office 2003 for 10 years, skipping Office 2007 and upgrading to Office 2013.  We didn't upgrade to Office 2016, but purchased that version for new hires until we migrated everyone to Office 365.

There is a compatibility issue between the different major release versions of Office.  t worst, documents created in newer versions of Office cannot be opened by older versions.  At best, there will be features and content that will be lost when opening the document in an older version.  Documents created in older versions can be opened without issue in the newer version.

So, someone using Office 2019 should have no trouble sharing files with someone using Office365, until the next major version is released.


You seem to doubt everything I've said on this issue.  There is a simple solution.  I believe your wife is currenty in school?  She can try to sign up for the academic version herself.  I am willing to be proven wrong.


Also, I have no idea why you think I am mad at you?  I am requesting you to stop spreading false information.  My posts are to convey the actual product information for Office365 and Office 2019 to readers who may otherwise be mislead.

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2019, 07:30:29 PM »
My posts are to convey the actual product information for Office365 and Office 2019 to readers who may otherwise be mislead.


I posted links to Microsoft products so nobody, including myself, misleads others. You work in an office. Why were you trying to explain how the academic version of the product works?
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2019, 08:15:40 PM »
The simple fact is that you're using someone else's account to tap into their purchase of Office 365.   It is why they tell you up front that you will not have your own account - someone else's email.   But that you can change your password. 

You can call it anything you want, but you are defrauding Microsoft. Here are part of the disclaimers by the ebay offer:

You will receive a username and password for your new account
You cannot use your own email address for this subscription.
You will receive a username and password for Activated Office 365.
You can change Password after initial login, however the username remains as is.


Is there anyone on this forum who really believes that this is anything other than use of a license other than it was intended for?   Get a grip.   Life is too short.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2019, 08:59:43 PM »
The simple fact is that you're using someone else's account to tap into their purchase of Office 365.   It is why they tell you up front that you will not have your own account - someone else's email.   But that you can change your password. 


It says right on Microsoft's website for academic versions, unlimited people get to use it after a qualified person in school signs up for it.

Earlier I put links to sellers who sold on Ebay for years and sold thousands of Office software. Microsoft and Ebay allows them to sell. They didn't just sneak through the cracks and for years nobody knew they were there selling illegal stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, go sell an old Windows 7 activation key without offering a piece of hardware and your listing will get taken down and you'll get a message for violating Micosoft's terms for selling the product. Microsoft does not sue Ebay. Ebay works with Microsoft and when Microsoft points out listings that violate their terms, Ebay will promptly take them down. So if you see a seller that's been around for awhile, not banned, and sold thousands of Microsoft product successfully, that seller is selling a legit product that does not violate Microsoft's terms for selling the product.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2019, 10:06:34 AM »
Who is buying dodgy MS Office  software when you can use the likes of Libre Office and Google docs?

We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline HoundDaddyLee

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2019, 11:06:28 AM »
It says right on Microsoft's website for academic versions, unlimited people get to use it after a qualified person in school signs up for it.

Earlier I put links to sellers who sold on Ebay for years and sold thousands of Office software. Microsoft and Ebay allows them to sell. They didn't just sneak through the cracks and for years nobody knew they were there selling illegal stuff. Like I mentioned earlier, go sell an old Windows 7 activation key without offering a piece of hardware and your listing will get taken down and you'll get a message for violating Micosoft's terms for selling the product. Microsoft does not sue Ebay. Ebay works with Microsoft and when Microsoft points out listings that violate their terms, Ebay will promptly take them down. So if you see a seller that's been around for awhile, not banned, and sold thousands of Microsoft product successfully, that seller is selling a legit product that does not violate Microsoft's terms for selling the product.


Billy,


You are wrong. Spent 10 years working at Microsoft. You cannot get a legal copy of Office for what you saw on the Ebay link. Office 365 is a SaaS (Software as a Service) product. You have to pay either monthly or yearly for a subscription. Academic institutions get a discount, but you have to be verified by that institutions domain address (e.g. myschool.edu). If you run an Office product (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) offline, eventually you will be asked to get online to enter your credentials. This works the same for MSDN (now My Visual Studio) subscriptions.


If you want to buy pirated copies of software, that is up to you. Since I am a software developer and you are stealing software and you are a contractor, why don't you come over and fix my roof for free? Sounds fair to me.


HDL

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2019, 12:03:22 PM »
You are wrong. Spent 10 years working at Microsoft. You cannot get a legal copy of Office for what you saw on the Ebay link.


Microsoft is a very big and complicated company. 10 years is not enough to know all the ins and outs. I spend tens of thousands on Ebay every year to buy parts for my other business. One can not simply sell illegal stuff on Ebay without Ebay taking action. Ebay wants to stay in business and keep their reputation clean. They don't want to get sued, especially by the most powerful companies on earth. On products like software, Ebay will work with the software companies to remove any listing they feel is violating their terms to sell the product. There are sellers that sold there for years and sold thousands of Microsoft products without their listing getting removed or them getting banned. That is the clue they are legit. Listing that get removed soon after popping up is a clue those listings don't meet the terms required to sell Microsoft product. Why does Microsoft allow this? My guess is to take advantage of tax breaks maximum allowable by the law.

If you want to buy pirated copies of software, that is up to you. Since I am a software developer and you are stealing software and you are a contractor, why don't you come over and fix my roof for free? Sounds fair to me.


I use a free office program called OpenOffice. I bought my wife Microsoft Office off Ebay for her studies and after this discussion, I've learned the Academic versions can be had for low cost or free right on Microsoft's website. I overpaid. I don't do roofs but I will if you're willing to overpay me.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2019, 12:37:42 PM »
That's it?   Microsoft is a big and complicated company?

I'm wondering how many people actually think that Microsoft is inviting people (you know, as a charitable contribution to the industry like he argued above) to buy licenses for Office 365 on the internet for under $5.00?   But if you buy it, you can't use your email address because it already has someone else's email address attached to it.

I think we should run a poll here.   Anyone willing?

Duh!

Lee, you old dog, you.  Glad to see you posting.

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Offline HoundDaddyLee

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2019, 02:10:07 PM »
Microsoft is a very big and complicated company. 10 years is not enough to know all the ins and outs. I spend tens of thousands on Ebay every year to buy parts for my other business. One can not simply sell illegal stuff on Ebay without Ebay taking action. Ebay wants to stay in business and keep their reputation clean. They don't want to get sued, especially by the most powerful companies on earth. On products like software, Ebay will work with the software companies to remove any listing they feel is violating their terms to sell the product. There are sellers that sold there for years and sold thousands of Microsoft products without their listing getting removed or them getting banned. That is the clue they are legit. Listing that get removed soon after popping up is a clue those listings don't meet the terms required to sell Microsoft product. Why does Microsoft allow this? My guess is to take advantage of tax breaks maximum allowable by the law.

I use a free office program called OpenOffice. I bought my wife Microsoft Office off Ebay for her studies and after this discussion, I've learned the Academic versions can be had for low cost or free right on Microsoft's website. I overpaid. I don't do roofs but I will if you're willing to overpay me.


There are no "ins and outs" in this situation. This is a black and white situation. Microsoft only gives such sharp discounts to educational institutions or possibly, I repeat possibly, to a very large corporation. One with hundreds of thousands employees. But, good for you for buying it from a sketchy Ebay source. Oh, and you buying stuff off Ebay, is not equivalent to someone working for the company in question.


HDL

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2019, 02:12:06 PM »
That's it?   Microsoft is a big and complicated company?

I'm wondering how many people actually think that Microsoft is inviting people (you know, as a charitable contribution to the industry like he argued above) to buy licenses for Office 365 on the internet for under $5.00?   But if you buy it, you can't use your email address because it already has someone else's email address attached to it.

I think we should run a poll here.   Anyone willing?

Duh!

Lee, you old dog, you.  Glad to see you posting.


Hi Buddy. I lurk on here occasionally. I have to say that Billy is willing to rob more than the cradle.  >:D :crackwhip:


HDL

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2019, 03:15:09 PM »
This is a black and white situation.


Yes, this is a black and white situation but you don't know all the ins and outs of the rules. People who don't sell Microsoft products on Ebay legitimately get their listings removed and if they do it multiple times, they get banned. Those who sell the proper way get to stay and sell Microsoft products for years. Guy in listing below been on ebay 16 years and has recently sold nearly 3000 Microsoft Office 365

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

I think we should run a poll here. 


A poll doesn't get to decide Microsoft's rules to selling their product. It's a good thing for them many people think like you pertaining to this issue on their software. You can get Windows 10 Pro for $199 or for free on Microsoft's website. Your choice.

All this doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense Microsoft can pass out their Office 365 software for near nothing or free and let unlimited users, which isn't defined, use it. It's like Marlboro passing out free cigarettes at schools. Get people hooked on the product and write off the freebies as a loss. There are legitimate freebies out there. Microsoft allows it. It's up to you if you want some. Next time I install Microsoft Office on my wife's Mac, I will get it off Microsoft's website for students instead of overpaying at Ebay.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2019, 04:08:29 PM »
Yes, this is a black and white situation but you don't know all the ins and outs of the rules. People who don't sell Microsoft products on Ebay legitimately get their listings removed and if they do it multiple times, they get banned. Those who sell the proper way get to stay and sell Microsoft products for years. Guy in listing below been on ebay 16 years and has recently sold nearly 3000 Microsoft Office 365

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

A poll doesn't get to decide Microsoft's rules to selling their product. It's a good thing for them many people think like you pertaining to this issue on their software. You can get Windows 10 Pro for $199 or for free on Microsoft's website. Your choice.

All this doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense Microsoft can pass out their Office 365 software for near nothing or free and let unlimited users, which isn't defined, use it. It's like Marlboro passing out free cigarettes at schools. Get people hooked on the product and write off the freebies as a loss. There are legitimate freebies out there. Microsoft allows it. It's up to you if you want some. Next time I install Microsoft Office on my wife's Mac, I will get it off Microsoft's website for students instead of overpaying at Ebay.

No, I believe that life is too short to take shortcuts that don't mean anything.  The fact that licensees are using someone else's account only proves that the license is not being used the way Microsoft intended it to be used.  Whether the situation is actionable or whether Microsoft just doesn't care to prosecute has no bearing on me because there are many more important things in my life.   And my guess is that you won't have many takers on this forum because most of us are way past the type of thinking that embodies your use of someone else's license that you have not proved you have the rights to.

For one of our companies, our team uses Microsoft Outlook.   I could not imagine trying to wedge someone else's account in there and to depend on that license to for all of the email applications we use.   Historically, I have found that it is better to pay the license fee for software used and have support and updates as necessary than to try and cheap things out with no recourse.

But everyone on the forum knows that this user will argue until he's blue in the face rather than admit that he is using a license for something other than what it is intended for, even thought he has a Microsoft software engineer telling him otherwise.

As an aside, and I have already copped to this, but every time you watch a movie that is provided by an unlicensed third party service, you are violating the licensing of that intellectual property right.   The fact that it is not cost effective for the owner of the movie to sue violation of the end-user access does not make the watching of that movie legal.   

I remember when the Torrent providers were out there.   I think that ThePirateBay is the last one active, if I am not mistaken.   There were, probably thirty or so that were active, giving away movies, books, software licenses, etc.   One by one, the FCC or whatever governing authority shut them down.   They could not easily get to them so they had to zorch them (I realize that I am using a colloquial term) by flooding them with hits.  I think I read that ThePirateBay went from Sweden to Latvia to Ukraine and so on, to keep the servers active.   I just checked.   They are on ThePirateBay 10 now.   I am assuming that ThePirateBay 1-9 got taken out.

I would also surmise that Microsoft will probably do something like this in the future, making those licenses inoperable. But I am also willing to bet that they aren't intentionally giving away licenses like cigarettes.  One of my favorite books by my favorite author growing up was 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' by Robert Heinlein.  In it, he wrote that there is "No Such Thing as a Free Lunch".   Eventually you wind up paying more for the lunch than you saved. 

While I won't comment on this particular user any more than this one specific situation, I have seen many instances where the free lunch adage rang true.

Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2019, 05:02:40 PM »
Whether the situation is actionable or whether Microsoft just doesn't care


Microsoft does care and will have listings that don't meet their terms removed off Ebay or any platform that sell their products. Just because some people don't like the price they're seeing on Ebay gets them to believe it's all illegal. Microsoft themselves allow free software to be downloaded off their website or you can pay $199. There's no secret webpage Microsoft passes out to certain qualified people or webpage only authorize users can download the software after inputting user name and password. Windows 10 Pro ISO can be downloaded by all for free.

Instead of making theories what can and can't happen with Microsoft products, show me where it's illegal to sell Microsoft products on Ebay. A lot of arguing about it but nobody shown me anything in writing. I need more than theories to change my mind. It's legal to sell Microsoft products there for whatever the price you want. The trick is to figure out how to comply with their terms to sell the product so your listing doesn't get removed. When it comes to academic version of Office 365, they only say what the qualifications of the person who is signing up has to be and don't define who the "unlimited users" need to be. We have people on the forum making up rules for Microsoft products that Microsoft themselves has not created.

Some of you actually believe Microsoft doesn't designate at least one employee to scour the internet and shut down listing or sites that allow illegal sales and they tolerate pirates. Ebay will easily respect intellectual rights of property owners and take down listings that violate the rights of those owners based on their policy alone. Allowing the sales of illegal products by pirates without enforcement is a quick way to go out of business. The Microsoft listings that are allowed to remain have been allowed to remain by Microsoft. Like I said before, I tried to sell an old Windows 7 activation key off a broken computer. My listing was quickly removed with a warning. After I listed the same product and included a broken motherboard with that key, I was in compliance with the rules to sell a Win 7 key and I eventually sold the key for $15. Somebody is watching and removing listings that violate Microsoft terms to sell their products on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/selling-policies/intellectual-property-vero-program?id=4349

I'll be in Mexico for a week so I won't be able to debate this after today. You can legally pay more or less for a Microsoft product. In some cases get it free. It's all up to you to figure it out.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2019, 05:16:45 PM »
You're using someone else's account.   Duh!   You can argue in circles and claim that because they're not prosecuting that the (supposed) license you're buying from someone else who may or may not have bought a license is legal.  But it is a facile argument.  To claim that Microsoft has given permission because ebay doesn't kick these guys off is just plain silly.  My guess is you would want to run away from this argument.  Because I'm willing to bet, since you're using someone else's account that there is NO PLACE that you sign a Microsoft end user agreement.

Think what you want.   I'm willing to bet that everyone on the forum, but you, thinks like the three posters who have shot you down.   Any takers for Billy's sense of entitlement?   No?  I didn't think so.

Don't worry.  You can go to Mexico and feel safe that we won't talk about your errors.   I think it has been displayed enough for everyone but you to understand that you're wrong.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2019, 06:12:03 PM »
You're using someone else's account.   Duh!   


That's what the unlimited people Microsoft allows to do. Duh! One qualified person signs up and is allowed to have unlimited people on their account. If you don't like Microsoft's rules, don't get mad at me, get mad at them.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2019, 06:25:15 PM »
Every user has an end license agreement.  Where is yours?  With a guy that may or may not have signed up, but you don't know?  But you say, with perfect authority, that the person you bought that software from has an UNLIMITED license?   Show me an end license agreement and you're home free.   There isn't one.

Come on, Billy!  Humor us!  Show us your license!  Surely you can call the guy you bought the software from for $3.95 and he will show you a license?  Nobody is mad at you.   You just don't admit when you're wrong. 

I was on the subway in NYC one time.  A guy was walking up and down the subway cars offering DVDs of recent movies.  The movies were five bucks.  People were buying them.   But everyone knew it wasn't right.

Again, is there anyone here who actually believes Billy?
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2019, 07:21:25 PM »
Every user has an end license agreement.  Where is yours?  With a guy that may or may not have signed up, but you don't know?  But you say, with perfect authority, that the person you bought that software from has an UNLIMITED license?


If somebody wants to sign up for the academic version of Office that allows them to have unlimited users, they have to supply an email to an accredited school. Usually that email had edu in the address. Microsoft verifies it and allows that person to have Office and unlimited users on their account.

Show us your license!  Surely you can call the guy you bought the software from for $3.95 and he will show you a license?  Nobody is mad at you.   You just don't admit when you're wrong. 


I didn't buy my wife an academic version that needs somebody elses license. I bought her her own license of Office 2019. In the link below is the instructions on how to activate Office 2016-19 version. Down the list is the step where you input the license. Microsoft servers will validate that license or tell you it's not valid. The one I bought is valid so Microsoft activated my wife's office program on her Mac.

http://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT2GBr0ydDLWcfzGzQLW3NTaS4q8GgG-tO4ZNmmA__SjzJVY_rWLyfGU3MnofAwZLOZGfOfu8U1XqHt/pub

When you read rules to something, you see more there than there is. When I see a product that's for unlimited users and unlimited users isn't defined, then it's good for the qualified person's classmates, entire school, family, friends and strangers. Unlimited users means unlimited users and if restrictions aren't there, don't make stuff up. Now if you feel Ebay sellers are doing wrong and want to save the world, contact Microsoft and tell them unauthorized people are selling their products on Ebay since you believe nobody there is authorized.

Look at the link below to see this guy selling office 365 on his account letting buyers know they will sign in with a different email address.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-Office-365-2016-2019-Pro-Plus-5-Device-PC-MAC-Not-Key-10s-Delivery/163930879848?hash=item262b0ab768:g:MPoAAOSwSKJdpSwr

Read the bottom of that listing where he adds language that will allow his listing to stand and not be removed. I had to do and write similar stuff when I sold my Windows 7 key but not to the degree this guy did. Below is the language in the listing and when a Microsoft employee in charge of policing things reads it, he/she will allow that persons sales to continue. If a person lists their item the incorrect way, it will be removed since it violates terms to sell the product. You seem resistant to learning new things.

eBay policy country:
"OEM, bundled or recovery software can only be listed when provided with the original hardware, such as a motherboard, hard drive, or a computer sold with the OEM software." - Therefore, this sale includes the original break of the economical repair computer and motherboard.
***important****
For EBAY, these product keys come from scrap computers.
EU law stipulates that sales licenses are legal
You will get a defective motherboard with keys that meet the EBAY OEM software policy requirements.
For delivery details, please contact us before this.
If you require shipping, you may need to bear the freight
If you do not require delivery, we will destroy the waste computer
 
OEM software:
Microsoft's system builder distribution agreement states that system build packages do not apply to end-user distribution unless end users act as system builders by assembling their own PCs. A "system builder" is a person who assembles, reassembles, or installs software on a new or used computer system.
Microsoft policy status:
"Large-brand computer manufacturers such as Dell and Compaq often include OEM software on non-holographic recovery or reinstallation discs that show the manufacturer's brand name. These packages are often marked with a paragraph, such as: ? Use only new Dell PCs for distribution ? Recover or reinstall software that is only released with new computers and can only be redistributed with the computer that was originally distributed to it (eg hard disk; RAM) does not comply with Microsoft's OEM distribution requirements." - Therefore This sale includes the original computer from which COA was taken.
OEM software:
Microsoft's system builder distribution agreement states that system build packages do not apply to end-user distribution unless end users act as system builders by assembling their own PCs. A "system builder" is a person who assembles, reassembles, or installs software on a new or used computer system.
 
This product does not infringe any copyright, trademark or any other rights, or any eBay listing policy or spam policy.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2019, 07:33:03 PM »
 :ROFL:

You still don't get it, do you?   You're paying some idiot on ebay to give you a license that isn't theirs to give.   And you have no way of proving that it is theirs to give.   And you are foregoing the normal support and (possibly) upgrades that come along with it.   You say because ebay doesn't kick them off that there was sufficient oversight for you to buy the license.   Again, no one believes you.   And you won't drop it.

You have rationalized this so much, in your mind, along with your desire not to be wrong, that you're making a horse's ass out of yourself...  (Not the first time.)

Amazing Microsoft makes any money at all.   Because obviously, this software is free.   NOT!



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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2019, 07:39:13 PM »


Amazing Microsoft makes any money at all.   Because obviously, this software is free.   NOT!

Perhaps it's like the printer outfits.
They practically give away their printers.
Then we pay ridiculous prices for the ink.

Microsoft might give away their software.
Then they charge us per each letter we type of spreadsheet we prepare.
We are due to get a huge bill at some point.
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Re: Computer Software and Intellectual Property Rights
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2019, 08:03:29 PM »

Here's your free Windows 10, Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 download from Microsoft. It's not a free lunch though.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/

Most people don't know this but you do not need a key to use any one of those Microsoft products. Without activation you won't get updates and won't be able to use certain features but those products can be used free.

Here is Microsoft ToS for those products. Activation is not a requirement.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/copyright/default.aspx

I have no interest getting into the $3 key selling business. It's worth it to some people. Some try to sell and don't understand their rights. Their listings get removed. Others know their rights and post it on their listing which allows them to sell Microsoft keys to certain products. This can be a valuable learning experience but certain people don't think it's legally possible to do what some people do on Ebay. I understand it and I feel I'm buying a legit key from a legit seller who has the rights to sell those keys.
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