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Author Topic: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society  (Read 4122 times)

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Online BillyB

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2020, 05:16:12 PM »
I remember when reviewing how child support was calculated when I got divorced, it seems kids have more needs as they get older. More expensive clothes and toys like the latest iPhone. They eat more. They want a car and insurance. They want to go out and do activities that cost money. Playing sports and needing expensive gear could be one of those activities. Lord help the parents if their child has an expensive drug habit and steals from them and later needs expensive counseling and pay criminal fines. Young kids don't have many of those needs and problems. Chart in the article below shows costs continually go up as kids get older with the exception of ages 5-7 where it drops slightly. Source comes from USDA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/01/10/its-more-expensive-than-ever-to-raise-a-child-in-the-u-s/
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Online 2tallbill

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Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2020, 06:07:21 PM »
I vote for university years.  Tuition, flat, auto, auto insurance.

I've been fairly lucky there, I had a son who went ROTC Navy
and a son who paid his way. Smiley Girl is going to school in
University in Russia so it's pretty cheap. Maybe Minime is the
one who breaks the bank?


That is why it is best to have lots of children, enabling "stuff" to be passed down and reused.   :D :D ;D

Yeah, that must have been what my Dad figured. I was the oldest
of 6 kids, I didn't have any hand me downs except for the very brief
time I could wear his clothes. I went from 5-9 to 6-2 (175cm to 188cm)
in three months one year and my shoe size went from 9-13 that year.

I bought 90% of my own clothes by the time I was in high school.
My brother and sister did the same. 4-H animals, yardwork, neighbors
hired us, we always had jobs and paid for all our own stuff.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 06:13:01 PM by 2tallbill »
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Offline ML

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2020, 08:12:11 PM »
Sorry (or happy) to say I don't remember much about cost of raising two children.

Probably as expenses went up, my earnings also went up, so didn't feel there were any problem years.
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2020, 02:26:28 AM »
All I noted was that you are wrong, again, this is starting to become a habit of yours, to always be wrong..

All I note is that you offer nothing in the form of a reasoned riposte !
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Offline GenMish

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2020, 08:00:26 AM »
Time to throw in my 2 cents

Kids-They get most expensive at college time, I paid tuition. Hard to get ahead if you are 120k to 200k in the hole at graduation time. Least expensive and most fun, 7-12, costs go up after (like a car at 16)but they earn their keep with good grades and chorus. With a car, they can run errands too

Traditional Conservative Women- Sorry Trench, even sworn Tradcons will eventually become feminists when in its in their best interest. The woman you marry will change over the years

Feminism and Western culture- For many of us in my age group, Feminism was Shangri La, live in GFs with jobs helping with household costs, with no cost to get rid of them. Then when you want marriage and know what you want in a woman, fly to Russia and cherry pick a 10. I understand the latest wave of Feminism doesn't make it as easy right now. But overall, Feminism destroyed the African American Community by making single mother households the norm, and crushing birthrates for Whites. Not just in Western Countries, look at Russia with a 1.4 birthrate. I don't know what civilization collapse level is, but 1.4 seems like its getting closer
  I think also Feminism sold a phony bill of goods to many women. Women focused on their careers, and when their biological clocks were nearing midnight there were no takers. Next 40 years of life alone, 25 years in a cubicle pushing paper , with the best time of life is when the boss buys a Costco cake for afternoon snacktime
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 08:03:16 AM by GenMish »

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2020, 12:10:51 PM »
NOT if you're in Europe - the tertiary education is either free or the STUDENT borrows the tuition fees
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline Boethius

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2020, 02:25:56 PM »
Women focused on their careers, and when their biological clocks were nearing midnight there were no takers.


The median age for getting married in the US has increased from about 21 years before the feminist movement to 27.8 in 2018.  But, many of the latter brides will have lived with their fiances before marriage, something almost unheard of before the feminist movement.


The median age for the birth of a first child is 23.8 years for women without a college degree, 30.3 years for women with a degree or degrees.  It's a little higher (33 years) in some West and East coast cities, which I assume has to do with the cost of rasing children.  The overall average age of a first time mother in the US is 28, up 3.4 years from 1970. 


The number of childless women has increased 5% since 1970.  However, it is likely most of this is by choice, as, in 1970, such a choice was not really available to women.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2020, 09:54:17 PM »
The main point is that the more women that go out to compete with men in the workplace the less men that there are that satisfy their needs, i.e a guy that can support them and look strong (a successful man) by bringing in the money. Not only that but they are raising the bar in that the man must also earn similar or preferably more than they do yet at the same time not overdo it so much as to look like competition, especially if in a similar field to her.

The tradwife staying at home does away with all of these problems. She can of course work but does not so to be in competition with the very an she seeks.

Traditionally the female phycologically has always been about submission, generally speaking. The feminist movement runs contrary to this and it's caused nothing but problems in society with present society in a mess because of it, drugs & mental health problems now rampant in society. The trad wife movement could very well change society back for the better.
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2020, 05:47:28 AM »
The main point is that the more women that go out to compete with men in the workplace the less men that there are that satisfy their needs, i.e a guy that can support them and look strong (a successful man) by bringing in the money. Not only that but they are raising the bar in that the man must also earn similar or preferably more than they do yet at the same time not overdo it so much as to look like competition, especially if in a similar field to her.

The tradwife staying at home does away with all of these problems. She can of course work but does not so to be in competition with the very an she seeks.

Traditionally the female phycologically has always been about submission, generally speaking. The feminist movement runs contrary to this and it's caused nothing but problems in society with present society in a mess because of it, drugs & mental health problems now rampant in society. The trad wife movement could very well change society back for the better.
 
   
"Traditionally the female phycologically has always been about submission, generally speaking"
Absolutely not 
Women and men want to achieve the same goal, but they do it in a different way accordingly to their nature, reread men come from Mars and women come from Venus of John Gray to understand the difference.
The only moment when we could speak technically about submission (and I don't like this word) is in the bed but this largely due to the different physcical features that God has given to the men and women. 
   
 
it's caused nothing but problems in society with present society in a mess because of it, drugs & mental health problems now rampant in society
Feminism had had many benefits, ALL drugs and mental problems couldn't be related to the feminism 
The raising of the feminism since the second world two has enlarged the workforce and improved the global gpd, and the most important it has corrected unacceptable inequalities, not compatibles with modern democraties. Since then feminism has turned into an other fight with very dubious reasons related to ensure them the power and nothing more to do with equality.   
 
 
"The main point is that the more women that go out to compete with men in the workplace the less men that there are that satisfy their needs"      
There are no such world where women have to satisfy needs of men Trench   
Trench I don't know what you are reading usually, but it's very mysogine and don't worth a penny, you need to raise your intellect to an other level because you will sooner rather than later be ejected by a lot of women, including FSU women, with such thinking. To tell you this in an other way, this type of thinking is going an other major obstacle in your mate searching journey.   
 
The only few words that make some sense are : true, when women raise their position in the workforce they generally tend to get men from a upper position in term of long term mating strategy. 
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 06:48:25 AM by Patagonie »
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Offline GenMish

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2020, 08:08:27 AM »
Boe, your figure would include all women. My comment was about the last cohort of women that were indoctrinated with the latest version of feminism since they were 5 yrs old

I used Google as well...lets see
women born in 1946 9% Childless
women born in 1970 17% childless

 30 yr olds now with their clock ticking and about to freeze eggs

30-34 year old women 31% childless.

31% !  That figure includes Hispanics, Asians and Blacks. So the White number is higher. How many kids can a woman have after 35 if they find someone?

IMO- the number will go higher because Docs now regularly put teen girls on birth control as soon they start their periods. After 20 years of Birth Control, a woman's system doesn't recover in a huge number.

Women threw away their best years to have children, for what? A dead end job in a cubicle pushing papers and eating Costco cakes?


http://census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2017/05/childlessness_rises.html

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2020, 02:37:40 AM »
Could it be I'm reading the ramblings of folks who think 'western' society will change because 'migrants' have higher birthrates because of feminism ?

 
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline GenMish

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #61 on: January 27, 2020, 06:06:12 AM »
Could it be I'm reading the ramblings of folks who think 'western' society will change because 'migrants' have higher birthrates because of feminism ?

Society is in a constant state of change, and its worthwhile to study demographics and understand which way we are going. Trench saw an article, and thought society was going to reverse. My opinion is far different, despite the backlash a few women are giving feminism in that article.
  I would say the epidemic of single mothers is probably the biggest negative of feminism in the past 30 years. And it devastated the African American community.  The State offering money to single mothers doesn't cure the problem, because kids need fathers in their lives.

Its not that African American men don't want to be dads, rather 100% of the women want to sleep with the top  5% best looking guys and feminism gave them that opportunity. The jail population in the USA has an overwhelming disproportionate number of men raised in single mother households

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #62 on: January 27, 2020, 06:42:52 AM »
Society is in a constant state of change, and its worthwhile to study demographics and understand which way we are going. Trench saw an article, and thought society was going to reverse. My opinion is far different, despite the backlash a few women are giving feminism in that article.
  I would say the epidemic of single mothers is probably the biggest negative of feminism in the past 30 years. And it devastated the African American community.  The State offering money to single mothers doesn't cure the problem, because kids need fathers in their lives.

Its not that African American men don't want to be dads, rather 100% of the women want to sleep with the top  5% best looking guys and feminism gave them that opportunity. The jail population in the USA has an overwhelming disproportionate number of men raised in single mother households

I'm not sure 'feminism; is solely or even the biggest cause of  older births ... / single Ma's ... Most guys in their sixties  - 0r older - grew up in family units that ended with the death of a parent ending the marriage.   Guys are getting married later, too ... THAT surely cannot be attributed to feminism ?

I MY case it was choice ...

We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

Offline Boethius

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #63 on: January 29, 2020, 04:17:00 PM »
Boe, your figure would include all women. My comment was about the last cohort of women that were indoctrinated with the latest version of feminism since they were 5 yrs old

I used Google as well...lets see
women born in 1946 9% Childless
women born in 1970 17% childless

 30 yr olds now with their clock ticking and about to freeze eggs

30-34 year old women 31% childless.

31% !  That figure includes Hispanics, Asians and Blacks. So the White number is higher. How many kids can a woman have after 35 if they find someone?

IMO- the number will go higher because Docs now regularly put teen girls on birth control as soon they start their periods. After 20 years of Birth Control, a woman's system doesn't recover in a huge number.

Women threw away their best years to have children, for what? A dead end job in a cubicle pushing papers and eating Costco cakes?

I didn't use google.  My figures were from prior reading in the NYT.

Women in dead end cubicle jobs pushing papers are not the ones delaying childbirth.  Typically, it is college educated women pursuing six figure salary careers that are the "feminists" delaying childbirth.

Birth control does not stop fertility later in life, although it may delay it for up to a year. 

You have not factored into your equation the number of women who choose to be childless, which is around 7% if memory serves me correctly.  Even now, being childless is frowned upon, but for women of my mother's generation (the one quoted in your statistics), remaining childless was not even an option.

Being 30-34 and childless is not a big deal.  Lots of women have their first child in that age range, or around 35 years of age.  I have an American cousin who had her first child after age 40.  She wasn't a "raging feminist" or trying to establish a career, although she did.  She just didn't find the man she was destined to marry until she turned 40.  She had long term relationships before then, and even accepted a proposal from one man, but she always felt something was missing until she met her now husband. 

Women now are having children in their forties.  Further, I don't think it is feminism that is delaying childbirth.  It is finding the right man.  Just as I can always tell which children are cared for by nannies, I can always tell which children come from broken homes.  Having a child is easily achieved.  Raising that child as the centre of a family, with the right partner, is much more difficult.  At least, if you love someone with all your heart and soul before making a baby, you know that you have a better chance of bringing a child into a family that is built on love.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 05:59:21 PM by Boethius »
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #64 on: January 29, 2020, 06:45:14 PM »
I didn't use google.  My figures were from prior reading in the NYT.

Women in dead end cubicle jobs pushing papers are not the ones delaying childbirth.  Typically, it is college educated women pursuing six figure salary careers that are the "feminists" delaying childbirth.

Birth control does not stop fertility later in life, although it may delay it for up to a year. 

You have not factored into your equation the number of women who choose to be childless, which is around 7% if memory serves me correctly.  Even now, being childless is frowned upon, but for women of my mother's generation (the one quoted in your statistics), remaining childless was not even an option.

Being 30-34 and childless is not a big deal.  Lots of women have their first child in that age range, or around 35 years of age.  I have an American cousin who had her first child after age 40.  She wasn't a "raging feminist" or trying to establish a career, although she did.  She just didn't find the man she was destined to marry until she turned 40.  She had long term relationships before then, and even accepted a proposal from one man, but she always felt something was missing until she met her now husband. 

Women now are having children in their forties.  Further, I don't think it is feminism that is delaying childbirth.  It is finding the right man.  Just as I can always tell which children are cared for by nannies, I can always tell which children come from broken homes.  Having a child is easily achieved.  Raising that child as the centre of a family, with the right partner, is much more difficult.  At least, if you love someone with all your heart and soul before making a baby, you know that you have a better chance of bringing a child into a family that is built on love.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Possible to have a child around 40 or so but the odds of getting pregnant fall off alot around that age. Abnormalities may also increase as does the chance of miscarriage. It's a far from ideal situation and if the woman always wanted kids it's not regarded as advisable to leave it so late. Can be part of the wanting it all culture a lot of women are told they can have these days but without realising the potential consequences.

So how do you recognize the kids who have been raised by nannies or from broken homes?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 06:53:34 PM by Trenchcoat »
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #65 on: January 29, 2020, 07:06:16 PM »
.  Raising that child as the centre of a family, with the right partner, is much more difficult.  At least, if you love someone with all your heart and soul before making a baby, you know that you have a better chance of bringing a child into a family that is built on love.




I'd have agreed with you, but my first wife was emotionally all over the place during and after the birth of our first child and subsequent miscarriages to the extent that I simply stopped loving her...

I was racked with guilt for feeling that way and should have left her sooner, but then we would never have had our second child...




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Offline Boethius

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2020, 09:17:25 PM »
Possible to have a child around 40 or so but the odds of getting pregnant fall off alot around that age. Abnormalities may also increase as does the chance of miscarriage. It's a far from ideal situation and if the woman always wanted kids it's not regarded as advisable to leave it so late. Can be part of the wanting it all culture a lot of women are told they can have these days but without realising the potential consequences.
Abnormalities also increase with fathers over 40.  That doesn't stop them from having children, does it?



Quote
So how do you recognize the kids who have been raised by nannies or from broken homes?


Lots of things - too many to explain, and you wouldn't understand anyway.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #67 on: January 29, 2020, 10:20:20 PM »
Abnormalities also increase with fathers over 40.  That doesn't stop them from having children, does it?




Lots of things - too many to explain, and you wouldn't understand anyway.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Men can't miscarry, etc do the risks can be less, still there but less. However again it is due to men & women slogging it out against each other for careers that push up the ages of both before or if they have kids. A younger age is of course better for both assuming it's not too young such as teenage years.

I know kids from broken homes can be a bit rowdy, problem type of personalities, I've not noticed this from those that have had nannies though I'm not sure using nannies is all that common over here. I don't know of any that have used nannies, short term child minders perhaps etc but not nannies.
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2020, 12:09:02 AM »
In the 1920's, it was the norm for women between 40 and 45 to bear children, usually the youngest in the family.

A woman over 40 has a higher chance of miscarriage, but that doesn't mean that all pregnant women over 40 miscarry.  Furthermore, we don't know if such miscarriages are the result of the woman's reproductive life, or her partner's (who typically is older - Any studies on over 40 women impregnanted by 20 something studs?), or, more likely, a combination of both.

Read this article, which discusses some misconceptions -

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/


Google was used to find the link to the above article.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 12:56:36 AM by Boethius »
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2020, 12:22:12 PM »
In the 1920's, it was the norm for women between 40 and 45 to bear children, usually the youngest in the family.

A woman over 40 has a higher chance of miscarriage, but that doesn't mean that all pregnant women over 40 miscarry.  Furthermore, we don't know if such miscarriages are the result of the woman's reproductive life, or her partner's (who typically is older - Any studies on over 40 women impregnanted by 20 something studs?), or, more likely, a combination of both.

Read this article, which discusses some misconceptions -

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/


Google was used to find the link to the above article.

That's quite surprising stuff Boe, it would certainly be an interesting concept to think about. Previously to date I had only scene and heard that women are pretty much done on the pregnancy thing by 40 ish, that although there was IVF type of stuff where you had much older women becoming pregnant that they were the exception rather than the rule.

That lady I met on the train going to Lviv that I seemed to get on well with but wasn't after a relationship was in her early forties. I had thought that was it for her (odds are she probably doesn't want one/thought so too) but if what this article says is true then older women may be worth more of a consideration. I tend to find they are more available in the FSU than the younger ones who I tend to get the impression have quite a number of guys after them.
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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2020, 12:29:17 PM »
I don't buy the idea that feminism made women not need men.

1. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access
to the mainstream of society.

2. Attractive and smart women have always been able to control the
events that surround them IF they know what they want otherwise they
control what they thought they wanted.

3. Women are women are women.

4. Certain women will only be attracted to bad boys. Steer clear of them.

5. Avoid romantic involvement with desperate women
(they tend to act desperately).

« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 12:42:18 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online msmob

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2020, 01:38:25 AM »
1. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access
to the mainstream of society.

Did you make this up or read it 'somewhere' and foolishly think it had some validity ?

We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2020, 01:53:31 AM »
1. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access
to the mainstream of society.

2. Attractive and smart women have always been able to control the
events that surround them IF they know what they want otherwise they
control what they thought they wanted.

3. Women are women are women.

4. Certain women will only be attracted to bad boys. Steer clear of them.

5. Avoid romantic involvement with desperate women
(they tend to act desperately).

1 & 2 are good points Bill and I think also relates to men to a degree also. Most men and women that are physically unattractive tend to be shunned for relationships and also socially as well. Some unattractive people may have great social skills that overcome this or have lifelong friends from a young age, hang out with other unattractive people, etc so it can be a bit of a generalisation. However, I think while there are only so many very attractive people, a minority of society there are also only so many unattractive people, another minority of society. Most of these unattractive people will not have great social lives & relationships and so will have time on their hands, a lot of that time will be spent on learning and Inn the workplace, careers.

To my mind the very unattractive have not necessarily been a problem so long as they don't go on a crusade to think all women should aim for careers and live the life they do, I think a lot of lesbians tend to think this way unfortunately. There have always been unattractive women that excelled as scientists locked away from society's view in a laboratory out the way somewhere, or as good lawyers spending long hours researching case files, etc, etc.

The main problem is that a lot of average looking women and even some prettier ones have been whipped up into going for a career when they needn't do and many thinking they can 'have it all'. They often are easily led to believe men are the opposition they need to beat to get these careers and hostility and conflict are easily stirred up in them. They are the ones though that are most likely to end up dissatisfied with the choice of male partners they end up with or that are available. They have elevated their social status beyond the level that their looks will allow them to have access to the men they want. They now want a guy of equal or higher social status to themselves and their average looks just won't cut it for those high status males who will instead go for the pretty women. The high status males don't need the money, they already get that! So a career girl is often not needed unless the guy struggles to get a pretty girl or the career girl is just a better fit, but this doesn't happen that much. Most high status males will go for the pretty girls as that is what most men are attracted to the most.

That then leaves the delicate equilibrium of society with a great imbalance all due to idiotic feminist thinking. Many people lose out and end up dissatisfied and yet western society still at large hasn't realised that the 'equality' so exposed by feminism is the wrong type of equality that is doing western society so much damage. It should really be equality adding up/being treated genderwise to the same roughly for each gender but not meaning each gender is the same. So average women would recognise that they have already got what they need in being able to get pregnant and allow men to go after the jobs relatively unopposed that they would look for those men to have.

Pretty women by contrast normally have rampant social lives and relationships to virtually any man so they tend to have little time for study or careers to input to excel unlike their unattractive counterparts.

No Deal is Ideal, It's a Free Britain we want :)

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2020, 02:05:54 AM »
Some of the most powerful women in history were not overly attractive, just ruthless enough to silence anyone who tried to mention that.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

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Re: Light at the end of the tunnel for saving Western Society
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2020, 02:56:34 PM »
1. Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society.


So unattractive women were not in the mainstream of society before the 1960's?  How do you explain Bette Davis? Eleanor Roosevelt?  Rosalind Franklin?  Mother Teresa? Grace Hopper? Coco Chanel?  Anna Akhmatova?

Quote
2. Attractive and smart women have always been able to control the events that surround them IF they know what they want otherwise they control what they thought they wanted.


ROFL.  Sure.

I'm surprised that you agree with Trenchcoat.  Steering toward the "creepy" part of the equation vis a vis women?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
True love begins when nothing is looked for in return.  Antoine de Saint-Exupery

 

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