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Author Topic: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)  (Read 67794 times)

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Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1775 on: October 13, 2020, 06:43:52 AM »
99% of those people have recovered, many without symptoms. 

I don't think the 200 to 400 thousand families of covid death families will agree with you.



Quote
Same as what happened with AstraZeneca trial.  Liability compel pharma companies to proceed with caution. 

Not only liability, but it is also prudent.


Quote
My point, too.  Makes me even more upset with China.

Who knows where the pandemic will come from.  I don't think China has a monopoly on pandemics.

Remember Typhoid Mary?  With people traveling as fast as they do today, crowded airports and planes, hopping continents in a few hours who knows how far that would have spread.

Have fun swingin' Gator!  Maybe win a few bucks while you're at it :)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 06:46:11 AM by BC »

Online Faux Pas

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1776 on: October 13, 2020, 06:54:13 AM »


WHO could and cannot 'quarantine' China any more than they can quarantine the US.  They can only provide nations information they compile based on what they see/hear in other nations.  Yes, China was remiss or negligent by not passing on more information of what was really happening. 

They knew only what we all knew at the time.  Trump likely knew more.  Had he done so, informing Dems and the public better, who knows what might have happened?  We can only guess.

BC,

You continually ignore the pink elephant in the room in giving the WHO a pass seemingly for a chance to blame Trump. Most all evidence points to China knowing there was a problem as early as December perhaps earlier. The WHO was on the scene. What they chose to believe from the Chinese commies or what they knew to be true then we'll likely never know. What we do know is China was suppressing information on a virus before it became a pandemic. It appears they were to some degree aided by the WHO. If anyone should have instituted lock down and stopped travel it would have been China. If that had happened in December the entire world response could have been different, the spread slower and infections in a much smaller number.

Trump had no oversight of Wuhan province, the Wuhan lab or the CCP. Why you blame Trumps response as "the" problem is a mystery. When one adds the timing of the virus, the originating country along with who may have benefited the most from such a pandemic all signs point to China.

Offline fathertime

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1777 on: October 13, 2020, 07:05:33 AM »
If Biden is elected you will read different responses from some of the patriot trumpeteers here.  Under trump the US can do no wrong, 'we are leading the way' on a vaccine and solving the problem singlehandly.....if biden is elected those same hypocritical individuals will state how biden is blowing it and how the US response is a disaster!  Meanwhile we lead the world in deaths under trump.   We in the US have a vulnerable frail population, not quite the 'exceptional' group we pretend to be! 

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Online BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1778 on: October 13, 2020, 07:09:15 AM »

We've heard a lot of criticism from the media about Trump's handling of the Coronavirus. Can anybody tell me what Biden will do differently? What is his plan? What is the estimated lives that he will save with his plan? What is the estimate on how much better the economy will be with his coronavirus plan? The only thing I've heard him say is he'll listen to science so he will let scientists run the country until the pandemic is over? Will he let Kamala run the country after the scientists are done?
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1779 on: October 13, 2020, 07:20:00 AM »
BC,

You continually ignore the pink elephant in the room in giving the WHO a pass seemingly for a chance to blame Trump. Most all evidence points to China knowing there was a problem as early as December perhaps earlier. The WHO was on the scene. What they chose to believe from the Chinese commies or what they knew to be true then we'll likely never know. What we do know is China was suppressing information on a virus before it became a pandemic. It appears they were to some degree aided by the WHO. If anyone should have instituted lock down and stopped travel it would have been China. If that had happened in December the entire world response could have been different, the spread slower and infections in a much smaller number.

Trump had no oversight of Wuhan province, the Wuhan lab or the CCP. Why you blame Trumps response as "the" problem is a mystery. When one adds the timing of the virus, the originating country along with who may have benefited the most from such a pandemic all signs point to China.

FP,

I don't dispute China not FUBAR'ing it. Have stated this several times.

It ain't like a neighbors dog that poops in your driveway where you ask the neighbor to come to clean it up.  Once a virus hits our shores, it's our problem and the buck stops on the president's desk.

As to WHO there is quite a bit of details at the link below.

http://apnews.com/article/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1780 on: October 13, 2020, 07:32:43 AM »
We've heard a lot of criticism from the media about Trump's handling of the Coronavirus. Can anybody tell me what Biden will do differently? What is his plan? What is the estimated lives that he will save with his plan? What is the estimate on how much better the economy will be with his coronavirus plan? The only thing I've heard him say is he'll listen to science so he will let scientists run the country until the pandemic is over? Will he let Kamala run the country after the scientists are done?

The first thing he'll do is help convince folks to put on a fucking mask in public and that by doing so tens of thousands of lives could be spared.  Trump could step up to the plate and do so today and a vast majority of his followers would put them on.  But he won't. He'll act like a kid throwing a tantrum.  If he can't have the country he'll make damn sure it ain't gonna be pretty for the next guy. Maybe when he's gone some of 'em will think a bit more serious about it.

Online BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1781 on: October 13, 2020, 08:18:08 AM »
The first thing he'll do is help convince folks to put on a fucking mask in public and that by doing so tens of thousands of lives could be spared.


Will Biden create a national mask mandate or will he do what Trump is doing and let the governors and local leaders decided what is best for their people? What exactly is Biden's pandemic plan? How does it differ from Trump's? He says he'll do a better job. What will he do?
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Online Faux Pas

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1782 on: October 13, 2020, 08:45:07 AM »
FP,

I don't dispute China not FUBAR'ing it. Have stated this several times.

It ain't like a neighbors dog that poops in your driveway where you ask the neighbor to come to clean it up.  Once a virus hits our shores, it's our problem and the buck stops on the president's desk.

As to WHO there is quite a bit of details at the link below.

http://apnews.com/article/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae

BC, It hardly equates to expecting the neighbor cleaning shit up in your driveway. At this point, there is still a very real possibility that the CCP purposely unleashed covid. Do you recall the WHO's first proclamation was that it likely originated in the Wuhan wet market, it couldn't have originated in the lab? This was information from the CCP and the WHO was the mouthpiece.

You and the left repeatedly blame Trumps response. What in your mind should Trump have done? Maybe that's a better place to get to the root of your rationale rather than equate it to the popular narrative


edit to add; I could not get your link to load but I believe that I have read it before. The AP by the way has done an excellent job of carry water for the WHO and the Chinese commies, too
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 08:48:04 AM by Faux Pas »

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1783 on: October 13, 2020, 09:42:16 AM »
FP,

Sorry for your problems with the link, it's the same link that comes up when shared via email or link. Maybe someone else can open it?  In any case, don't shoot the messenger.

As for a purposeful 'unleashing' of the virus, you seem convinced, I'm not and that's fine.  We're not right nor are we wrong with our thoughts posted here.  Best leave it at that.

As for Trump, citizens, residents, mayors, governors should have known sooner what the impact of the virus could be.  It was up to Trump to tell Americans what we might be facing and how serious he thought it would be, which we now have on tape.  Instead, he decided to do otherwise, to puh puh the virus down the road.  Unfortunately, the virus does not speak English and did not heed his command.  We deserved to hear the truth.  I don't buy the panic excuse. 

The remaining 'beef' and what Trump should have done instead have been stated before in the previous 70 some pages in this thread.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/13/trump-rally-supporters-covid-19-sots-tuchman-ac360-vpx.cnn

Watch when the lady is asked what she would do if Trump asked the audience to wear a mask.  His supporters, mayors, governors etc would listen and do it as well.  He could have suggested mask mandates all over the place and we'd have 'em without a fuss. Many thousands would still be alive today, and many thousands would not die in the future.


Online BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1784 on: October 13, 2020, 11:48:18 AM »
As for Trump, citizens, residents, mayors, governors should have known sooner what the impact of the virus could be.



Trump banned travel from China in January. People think his actions was so strict, it had to have been racist. Democrats didn't sound the alarm because they were too busy impeaching.




It was up to Trump to tell Americans what we might be facing and how serious he thought it would be, which we now have on tape.  Instead, he decided to do otherwise, to puh puh the virus down the road.  Unfortunately, the virus does not speak English and did not heed his command.  We deserved to hear the truth.  I don't buy the panic excuse. 



People were fighting over toilet paper and you want Trump to get people more worried. The truth wouldn't help anybody because there was not enough masks to go around. You had the truth in January. A city in Italy decided to have a hug a Chinese day to counter Trump's racist travel ban. Did you choose to believe those politicians or Trump. We had truth revealed in early February on this forum page 1 of this thread. I was warning people this is bad. The news said China was quarantining tens of millions of people and Trump did a travel ban. Hello!!!! This wasn't the flu we're dealing with. Democratic leaders have access to the same intelligence Trump did and what did they do to sound off warnings? I was telling people the importance of masks and got ridiculed by people on your side of the political fence. There was enough info for people to be warned. Some people panicked, others ignored it. Did you ignore it? That is on you, not Trump.
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Offline Rosco

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1785 on: October 13, 2020, 12:04:25 PM »

I have THREE biz partners that most certainly are better qualified that you or I....

We have NO idea how long having antibodies lasts and how different people can be more open to  second dose ..

In Volgograd, I know of three generations who have tested positive and are asymptomatic - aged 57 down to 7 ...  Would you 'argue' this means COVID is 'nothing to worry about' ?

Indeed you don't.

Again stop claiming I've said stuff that I have never said. Perhaps you just misunderstand what I write?

I've never ever suggested covid is nothing to worry about but I have questioned the proportionality of our strategies to tackle it. And yes I'd favour an approach to that of Sweden but it is my opinion and there are plenty facts to back it up. I wont however get bogged down in a mud wrestle with you over this, so just park the predicable replies that are easily debunked.

My point still holds more water than yours though because you can only sight a handful of global cases of re-infection, which leads you to making bold claims of herd immunity being a complete hoax and a waste of time.

I can sight facts where literally hundreds of millions of people have come into contact with covid, a small proportion have been infected, a tiny proportion have died and we know their state and from those 100's of millions only a few who have made the front pages have officially been re-infected.

Read into that what you want but forget about making assumptions or false claims about what I've said.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1786 on: October 13, 2020, 12:28:27 PM »

Trump banned travel from China in January. People think his actions was so strict, it had to have been racist. Democrats didn't sound the alarm because they were too busy impeaching.

You keep bringing this up pretty much as the sole argument for what Trump did.  The 'one-shot' cure if you will for all that ails his further response.  What else did he do to protect us?  Not talking about what he did for folks that were ill and dying, but the massive effort he made to protect folks from getting infected and dying.


Quote
People were fighting over toilet paper and you want Trump to get people more worried. The truth wouldn't help anybody because there was not enough masks to go around. You had the truth in January. A city in Italy decided to have a hug a Chinese day to counter Trump's racist travel ban. Did you choose to believe those politicians or Trump. We had truth revealed in early February on this forum page 1 of this thread. I was warning people this is bad. The news said China was quarantining tens of millions of people and Trump did a travel ban. Hello!!!! This wasn't the flu we're dealing with. Democratic leaders have access to the same intelligence Trump did and what did they do to sound off warnings? I was telling people the importance of masks and got ridiculed by people on your side of the political fence. There was enough info for people to be warned. Some people panicked, others ignored it. Did you ignore it? That is on you, not Trump.

Billy,

I recognize you were sounding the alarm all along.  Many of the things you said might happen with the virus rang true with time, even when I had doubts very early on.  IIRC you got a lot of naysayers and even still do from time to time.  What a president says or not has the power to shifts economic markets and quite a few members here hung on every word.  Nahh... won't happen, even as it was very 'happening' here in Italy, won't happen here until it hit NYC.  Thumbs up for trying though.

We used to see scuffles in supermarkets all the time when a big sale was on, folks beating down doors, and IIRC even injuries and a few deaths, one I'm sure of trampled by the mob.  Surely we can handle TP fights.  There were little scuffles here as well up to the day that the government guaranteed that merchandise would flow freely, that there would be no shortages of TP or anything else for that matter.  Within a few days, buying calmed down and only a few items scarce here and there.  Certainly, nothing to fight over.  The government gave assurances, TP stocked up again and that was that.  It does not justify holding back information.  It does not justify the leader of our nation to decide what we should hear and what we should not, nor to minimize the very high potential of a hazard ahead.  Sorta like someone hearing the train honk, but telling the blind man to walk across the tracks.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1787 on: October 13, 2020, 01:56:56 PM »
Billy,

I recognize you were sounding the alarm all along.  Many of the things you said might happen with the virus rang true with time, even when I had doubts very early on.  IIRC you got a lot of naysayers and even still do from time to time.  What a president says or not has the power to shifts economic markets and quite a few members here hung on every word.  Nahh... won't happen, even as it was very 'happening' here in Italy, won't happen here until it hit NYC.  Thumbs up for trying though.



There was enough evidence out there to see this was going to be big, even with China deceiving us. I've never said anything bad about Obama's handling of the swine flu. I never worried about the swine flu, various bird flus, SARS and MERS. You can search my posts. This virus was different. The behavior of the virus was different and the fact China quickly locked down more people than the entire population of Italy and other clues should be enough to figure out this was going to be a bad one that would change the way we live.


You keep bringing this up pretty much as the sole argument for what Trump did.  The 'one-shot' cure if you will for all that ails his further response.  What else did he do to protect us?  Not talking about what he did for folks that were ill and dying, but the massive effort he made to protect folks from getting infected and dying.



Your hate for Trump is strong enough to blind you to see all what he has done. He didn't one shot the virus with a China travel ban. After that he alarmed the world again by banning travel from Europe. He went around the world trying to buy up everything for America's benefit. Remember you were mad at Trump for buying up all the PPE and trying to buy up a German vaccine company? He enacted war powers to force companies to make masks and ventilators for America first. He gave daily briefings to educate Americans about the virus and what government was doing. Some liberal networks stopped showing the daily briefings because they didn't want to give the impression Trump was doing the right thing. Do they really care about saving lives or making Trump look bad. Trump let Dr Fauci, Brix, the Surgeon General and many other experts speak at the daily briefings. He gave trillions to American and foreign companies to find treatments and vaccines. He appointed a task force led by VP Pence to give governors anything they need. All that and America's economy is turning out to be less damaged than our allies.


Biden, from his basement, talked to his science and medical experts about the coronavirus. Not once did Biden speak up to educate Americans more than Trump already has. He complained about lack of masks but Trump allowed governors to make decisions on masks. If Biden doesn't create a national mask mandate, he'll be no different than Trump on the issue.
Do your part to limit the spread of COVID-19

Offline Confederate

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1788 on: October 13, 2020, 02:12:04 PM »

There was enough evidence out there to see this was going to be big, even with China deceiving us. I've never said anything bad about Obama's handling of the swine flu. I never worried about the swine flu, various bird flus, SARS and MERS. You can search my posts. This virus was different. The behavior of the virus was different and the fact China quickly locked down more people than the entire population of Italy and other clues should be enough to figure out this was going to be a bad one that would change the way we live.



Your hate for Trump is strong enough to blind you to see all what he has done. He didn't one shot the virus with a China travel ban. After that he alarmed the world again by banning travel from Europe. He went around the world trying to buy up everything for America's benefit. Remember you were mad at Trump for buying up all the PPE and trying to buy up a German vaccine company? He enacted war powers to force companies to make masks and ventilators for America first. He gave daily briefings to educate Americans about the virus and what government was doing. Some liberal networks stopped showing the daily briefings because they didn't want to give the impression Trump was doing the right thing. Do they really care about saving lives or making Trump look bad. Trump let Dr Fauci, Brix, the Surgeon General and many other experts speak at the daily briefings. He gave trillions to American and foreign companies to find treatments and vaccines. He appointed a task force led by VP Pence to give governors anything they need. All that and America's economy is turning out to be less damaged than our allies.


Biden, from his basement, talked to his science and medical experts about the coronavirus. Not once did Biden speak up to educate Americans more than Trump already has. He complained about lack of masks but Trump allowed governors to make decisions on masks. If Biden doesn't create a national mask mandate, he'll be no different than Trump on the issue.

Well said Billy.

Eff Mr Basement Biden
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Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1789 on: October 13, 2020, 02:18:43 PM »
Once again, can I point out that many more Chinese went to Thailand in Jan / Feb 2020, while SC was there and their rates were not high in Thailand


They made folks sanitise their hands before entering shops and took temps ... masks were not compulsory until VERY late March..




Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1790 on: October 13, 2020, 02:51:12 PM »
What else did he do to protect us?  Not talking about what he did for folks that were ill and dying, but the massive effort he made to protect folks from getting infected and dying.


The travel ban helped immensely.  The US quickly got in a hole in the critical first few weeks because of inadequate testing capability (perhaps the weakest of all Western nations).  And  some of this inadequate testing is carried forward from Obama's tenure.  Trump's team turned that around quickly, but the genie was out of the bottle.   Trump's team also did much to correct our PPE shortages. 

You keep harping the political tactic that Trump is to blame for the deaths.  People died everywhere around the globe.  Given America's individualism and cultural diversity, maybe Trump did as well as possible vs. a more monocultural population. 

The decision of how best to address a pandemic is more than preventing deaths.  It involves tradeoffs.  Maybe you should give Trump credit for saving as much of the economy (smaller decline than any other Western nation) while saving over 99.9% of us from death.  And today the economy is re-growing at fast rate, and soon we will have vaccines.  The sun is rising. 

Quote
Not talking about what he did for folks that were ill and dying 

I single this out because Trump did bring the Federal government resources  to help the epicenter of the pandemic - the NYC area.  The Feds quickly provided additional hospitals and respirators when the NY Governor projected a critical shortage. 

A great number of New Yorkers died.  Many as a result of government decisions made at the State level. 

Sidebar - Can you believe Cuomo is doing a tour to sell his new book "Leadership Lessons from the COVID-19 Pandemic?"   An NBC reporter asked Cuomo what lessons did he learn from returning COVID patients to nursing homes rather than keeping them isolated in underutilized hospitals.  Cuomo dodged the question. 

Offline Gator

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1791 on: October 13, 2020, 03:10:05 PM »

If Biden doesn't create a national mask mandate, he'll be no different than Trump on the issue.

In the VP debate, the first question asked to Kamala is what she and Biden will do differently than Trump about the pandemic.  Kamala dodged the question. 

Biden will not do anything differently, and I assert if he were President for 2020, the situation would be worse.  For example, Biden criticized the Trump ban.  For months in his basement, Biden never gave specific information about what he would do differently than Trump.  Finally, in late August, Biden spoke and said:

'I would shut it down': Biden says if scientists recommended, he would lock down country to curb COVID-19.

Which scientists Joe?  There is no consensus among health scientists about many COVID issues.   And now the WHO says a lock down is a measure of last resort.   BC, your Biden is weak, an empty vessel, and would not do as well as Trump in leading us out of this pandemic.   

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1792 on: October 13, 2020, 04:01:40 PM »
Hhhmm, the WHO's Dr. David Nabbaro said:


~ We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus, Nabarro said. He added that lockdowns can only be justified to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted. But by and large, wed rather not do it. ~
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 04:07:54 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Online Faux Pas

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1793 on: October 13, 2020, 04:54:38 PM »
FP,

Sorry for your problems with the link, it's the same link that comes up when shared via email or link. Maybe someone else can open it?  In any case, don't shoot the messenger.

As for a purposeful 'unleashing' of the virus, you seem convinced, I'm not and that's fine.  We're not right nor are we wrong with our thoughts posted here.  Best leave it at that.

BC, as I said I couldn't read it. It started to load then went blank each of the 3 times I tried. I likely have read it but couldn't be sure so I can't use it as any fact to back your position. But I can tell you that I have worked with the AP for many years and witnessed a once proud and stellar institution for factual news has sunken to levels I never dreamed possible. Even before Trump ran for president the AP had been slipping away from control of it's membership and to the whims of the leftist narrative. It has truly fallen and can be held to the low esteem of the NYT.

I am not convinced that the virus was purposefully unleashed nor am I convinced that it wasn't. China's action along with the WHO's lack of action in the time frame discussed certainly is suspect. Was it attack on the world economy as well as the world health, who knows? We know it came from a lab in China. How, why when and where is not yet determined


Quote
As for Trump, citizens, residents, mayors, governors should have known sooner what the impact of the virus could be.  It was up to Trump to tell Americans what we might be facing and how serious he thought it would be, which we now have on tape.  Instead, he decided to do otherwise, to puh puh the virus down the road.  Unfortunately, the virus does not speak English and did not heed his command.  We deserved to hear the truth.  I don't buy the panic excuse. 

The remaining 'beef' and what Trump should have done instead have been stated before in the previous 70 some pages in this thread.

Perhaps we should all have known sooner IF China and the WHO had acted responsibly. Trump actually took the first action of most nations when he banned first China then all international travel. At the time the world only knew of the virus but not about the virus. China likely knew then. The WHO should have known and likely did but stood steadfast protecting China rather than the world. We heard the truth from Trump as he knew it. You seem to be at issue with the manner in which he framed and told it to the public. You can disagree with that if you wish but in hindsight it doesn't make you right, either. The truth at that time wasn't known by anyone other than CCP and the WHO

Quote
http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/10/13/trump-rally-supporters-covid-19-sots-tuchman-ac360-vpx.cnn

Watch when the lady is asked what she would do if Trump asked the audience to wear a mask.  His supporters, mayors, governors etc would listen and do it as well.  He could have suggested mask mandates all over the place and we'd have 'em without a fuss. Many thousands would still be alive today, and many thousands would not die in the future.

That has nothing to do with nothing brother. If Trump had suggest everyone wear a mask there is zero evidence even one life would be saved. If he had done what Biden is saying he will do, mask mandates and lock downs deaths will likely go up. Let's explore the masks for a second. The CDC and the WHO both issued statements in March that the masks will not protect us from the virus. Why? Because the virus is microscopic aerosol meaning it will move with airflow. It is not splatter which is what the masks are designed to hinder. That being surgical masks, the trendy cloth masks won't even stop that. Unless you're donned in a gas mask and a hazmat suit, you have no protection. It's a false sense of security. The choice to wear a mask is and should remain a personal one


Offline GQBlues

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1794 on: October 13, 2020, 08:11:20 PM »
...Biden, from his basement, talked to his science and medical experts about the coronavirus. Not once did Biden speak up to educate Americans more than Trump already has. He complained about lack of masks but Trump allowed governors to make decisions on masks. If Biden doesn't create a national mask mandate, he'll be no different than Trump on the issue.


Dementia Joe and his 'science'? Science is so heavily used these days by our politicians as though science is static. I can't blame Dementia Joe, especially not in his current state - LMAO! Even an ex-white house physician is now saying he should be given a cognitive test to make sure he's 'all there'...so damned funny.


Anyway, it wasn't long ago (March 2020) 'science', uttered from the very mouth of Mr. Science himself, Anthony Fauci that *masks* can make you feel a little better but unnecessary. Warns us of *unintended consequences*.


Please note how interesting it is that CBS blocked the video of the interview.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-fauci-in-march-masks-make-you-feel-a-little-bit-better-but-unnecessary-for-general-population-warns-of-unintended-consequences
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1795 on: October 13, 2020, 09:34:11 PM »
BC, as I said I couldn't read it. It started to load then went blank each of the 3 times I tried. I likely have read it but couldn't be sure so I can't use it as any fact to back your position. But I can tell you that I have worked with the AP for many years and witnessed a once proud and stellar institution for factual news has sunken to levels I never dreamed possible. Even before Trump ran for president the AP had been slipping away from control of it's membership and to the whims of the leftist narrative. It has truly fallen and can be held to the low esteem of the NYT.

I am not convinced that the virus was purposefully unleashed nor am I convinced that it wasn't. China's action along with the WHO's lack of action in the time frame discussed certainly is suspect. Was it attack on the world economy as well as the world health, who knows? We know it came from a lab in China. How, why when and where is not yet determined


Perhaps we should all have known sooner IF China and the WHO had acted responsibly. Trump actually took the first action of most nations when he banned first China then all international travel. At the time the world only knew of the virus but not about the virus. China likely knew then. The WHO should have known and likely did but stood steadfast protecting China rather than the world. We heard the truth from Trump as he knew it. You seem to be at issue with the manner in which he framed and told it to the public. You can disagree with that if you wish but in hindsight it doesn't make you right, either. The truth at that time wasn't known by anyone other than CCP and the WHO

That has nothing to do with nothing brother. If Trump had suggest everyone wear a mask there is zero evidence even one life would be saved. If he had done what Biden is saying he will do, mask mandates and lock downs deaths will likely go up. Let's explore the masks for a second. The CDC and the WHO both issued statements in March that the masks will not protect us from the virus. Why? Because the virus is microscopic aerosol meaning it will move with airflow. It is not splatter which is what the masks are designed to hinder. That being surgical masks, the trendy cloth masks won't even stop that. Unless you're donned in a gas mask and a hazmat suit, you have no protection. It's a false sense of security. The choice to wear a mask is and should remain a personal one

You say you worked with the AP for many years.

May I ask how so? In what capacity?
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
George Orwell 1984

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1796 on: October 14, 2020, 03:51:23 AM »
Speaking of Scientist v Political 'popularity' ..

http://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-government-ignored-scientists-advice-on-lockdown/

UK government ignored scientists advice on  ( another ) lockdown

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1797 on: October 14, 2020, 08:02:33 AM »
Speaking of Scientist v Political 'popularity' ..

http://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-government-ignored-scientists-advice-on-lockdown/

UK government ignored scientists’ advice on  ( another ) lockdown


This says UK scientists disagree with WHO's advice that a lockdown should be used only as a last resort. 

In your opinion are WHO scientists untrustworthy? 

Or maybe we still have much to learn and resolve about this pandemic?

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1798 on: October 14, 2020, 09:20:30 AM »
I have mentioned the tradeoff between lockdown and the economy. 

IMF yesterday released its latest information about growth projections.

The projected decline in economic growth for the year 2020 among the advanced economies is  as follows: 

United States         -4.3%
Japan                    -5.3%
Germany               -6.0%
Canada                 -7.1%
United Kingdom     -9.8%
France                  - 9.8%
Italy                    -10.6%
Spain                   -12.8%
       
Economists frequently do cost-benefit analysis about the ratio of cost to lives saved.  It seems insensitive, yet it is a frequently cited measurement.  One can see the tradeoff. 

BTW, the one economy that did not decline is China, growing at 1.9% in 2020.   




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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #1799 on: October 14, 2020, 09:30:02 AM »
I have mentioned the tradeoff between lockdown and the economy. 

IMF yesterday released its latest information about growth projections.

The projected decline in economic growth for the year 2020 among the advanced economies is  as follows: 

United States         -4.3%
Japan                    -5.3%
Germany               -6.0%
Canada                 -7.1%
United Kingdom     -9.8%
France                  - 9.8%
Italy                    -10.6%
Spain                   -12.8%
       
Economists frequently do cost-benefit analysis about the ratio of cost to lives saved.  It seems insensitive, yet it is a frequently cited measurement.  One can see the tradeoff. 

BTW, the one economy that did not decline is China, growing at 1.9% in 2020.

That one stat alone speaks volumes as to why 1) we have a virus and 2) why both CCP and the WHO stayed so tight lipped

 

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