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Author Topic: Ilona and the FSU mentality  (Read 986 times)

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Online Maxx2

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Ilona and the FSU mentality
« on: February 08, 2020, 09:24:02 AM »



I met Ilona at a Halloween/Birthday party.


My Russian friend Alex brought me there. Previous to this we had a taco party at the gym so we brought along the ingredients to make tacos. I didn't understand why Alex was singing "Happy Halloween" as Halloween had passed a few days before. When I got to the house of a Russian couple and seen all the Halloween decorations Alex explained that they celebrate Halloween for a week. There was also a birthday party.


When I first met Ilona she was sitting on the floor before a fire in the fireplace. I thought she was the teenage daughter of the host Sasha a Russian guy. After I introduced myself I sat on the couch while Alex my friend and 'Alexi and wives' were in the kitchen with Sasha's wife Natasha making and eating tacos. Soon Ilona got up and sat close to me. I thought this was odd. Young women usually don't sit close to me. Later Ilona told me why. 


Three children came out of one of the bedrooms. The oldest girl age 7 was Sasha and Natasha's daughter. The other two children were Ilona's. I quickly figured out she wasn't a teenager but I wondered what was her relationship was to Sasha? Sasha was all over her with his hands. Rubbing her back under her blouse, massaging her neck and trying to do her front but she would push his hands away. Sasha's wife was in the next room not more 5 meters away. Sasha was clearly higher than a kite. He would get about 4 inches (10 centimeters) from my face and told me 3 times he was born in 1978 and was 41 years old. I understood he was trying to tell me he was much younger than me and that is well, better. Sasha has a completely shaven head and no eyebrows. A strange looking guy...  Ilona later told me that she sat next to me for protection. She didn't want to make a scene and get him into trouble with his wife. Turns out the wife knew. At our next Tex-Mex party Sasha and Natasha came and Sasha told me he wasn't going to drink again for at least 3 months... He seemed rather sheepish and ashamed.

I found out Ilona had just turned 26 and was from Minsk Belarus. She was recently divorced. She had studied language at the university. Spoke French and four other languages fluently and spoke a fair amount of Georgian. Seemed to have a pleasant personality. A few months before meeting Ilona I had put the idea of starting a business to Sonya, SC's friend. She was open to the idea. But our relationship suddenly ended and I haven't heard from her since August 30th. So I thought why not Ilona?


Alexi and wives:




Alexi and wives

Natasha (Not Sasha's Natasha), Alexi and Dana. Alexi wears a Mohawk hairdo.

Alexi and wives came from the city Ufa Russia. Natasha on the left is 18 years old. Dana on the right is 26. Alexi is 34. He told me in the car on the way over to the party that they were his wives. I thought,
"You've got two women and I haven't gotten any? That ain't fair!"  :D


They had been helping me with food prep and were interested in learning to make Mexican food. He is a personal trainer and the ladies do some kind of IT work with their phones.


Finding out that the three of them lived together and Alexi being very open about it it made me wonder if it might be Sasha and wives? This isn't the small town Midwest America...


Back to the story...


At the party Ilona was quick to give me her contact info. I told her I would contact her in a few days. I did, which surprised her. My guess people don't often live up to their words. We arranged to meet at a cafe near her place. I told her I was looking to find someone young, intelligent and full of energy to help me start a business. I asked her if she would consider working for me. She told me she first needed to travel to Tbilisi to take care of some business in regard to a card. She would be visiting her ex-husband with their children. Again I wondered what kind of relationship is this? My Russian ex-wife from seventeen years ago continued a sexual relationship with her ex-husband years after their divorce and right through the time I was married to her. Anyway it was not my concern with Ilona, except, personal lives can slip over into the business life and it seemed that it was. November pretty much got eaten up with delays and trips to take care of this or that for Ilona.


December went well for the first 3 weeks. We perfected a lot of the recipes including a salsa you would want to eat right of the bowl. Then Catholic Christmas came. Ilona is Catholic. About 3 week days off that week. New Year's week, all 5 week days off and of course weekends off too. I'm looking at the calendar and counting down the time until the tourist season starts.


FSU Crabs in a bucket


Ilona told me something she observed about Westerners verses FSU people. She said she noticed on message boards and social media that Americans et cetera were encouraging. You can do it! A can do spirit. But Russians et cetera were the opposite. They had a can't do spirit. Everyone was negative and discouraging.


I told Ilona the story about the genie that gave a Russian man a wish. The man wished for the most productive milk cow. He got it and was soon the envy of all his neighbors. The genie then grants a wish to one of the neighbors. The man wishes "Kill his milk cow."


What was happening in the background was Ilona's "friends" were planting seeds of doubt in her mind about this business and about me. These were men friends and women friends. Ilona has a lot of men friends. I showed her this movie in Russian which she liked.





Sasha told her I wouldn't pay her. I did and was diligent about doing so. Every Friday she got her pay. Paying people for their work and punctuality is a thing for me. 


More than a few of her friends said I was aiming to turn this into more than a business relationship. During the three months we were together I never touched her inappropriately, never said anything sexual towards her, never flirted with her or made a proposition. I told her Sasha was probably upset with me because I spoiled his plan with her because I paid her enough to be able to support herself.


Sasha, the Russian Mafia Money launderer


Sasha said I was poor and could never do this business. Ilona told me Sasha launders money for the Mafia. That once he had to disappear for a year. People came to Natasha looking for him. Ilona told me he had a mistress at one time but is now faithful to Natasha his common-law wife.   :ROFL: I told her if not for me and his wife being in the other room... I told her to never be alone with him. She laughed at this. I found out later he was saying the same thing about me! People that are shit can never imagine there are people finer than themselves. People who are too lazy to make an honest living and then put down those that try.


And I am getting bad mouthed by Alexi and wives. Ilona over heard it at our next Tex-Mex party. They were upset I hired Ilona and they weren't getting my food leftovers anymore. 


Ilona's ex-husband


I first heard about Ilona's ex-husband because she was upset he didn't want his kids to stay with him. He wasn't going to support them and doesn't. He wants her back. If he can't get her back he has threaten to get her deported. He has threatened to cripple her to make her unattractive to men. He has threatened to take her children away. He is a big guy. Six foot four (195 cm) and her 5 foot four (165 cm). She also told me had beaten her severally before. Almost blinded her when he punched her in the eye. She has photos and his text messages threatening to kill her if she don't come back to him.


I told her she should see an attorney. I would pay for it. I told her I knew important people high up in Georgian law and border enforcement. But she doesn't want to be a "rat" so gave up trying to help her.


Money enough to not be dependent upon a man



I paid Ilona enough money that she could support herself and her two children. To give you an example of what usual pay is here we interviewed as a possible cook a woman. She had worked as a cook every other day. So 15 days a month. She worked from 9 AM to 1 AM, 16 hour days. Her pay was 450 GEL a month. That is about $150 a month or $10 a day or 62 cents an hour. AND her employer wanted to cut her pay so she quit


I paid Ilona 300 GEL ($100) a week or 60 GEL a day. Or another way of looking at it $6.92 X 3 per day. This is considered good pay here. Her rent was 450 GEL a month


A can't lose arraignment


She told me she came into an inheritance from a sale of an apartment in Minsk. This was a few years back. She wanted to take her money and have a contract written up that she and her ex-husband could live in an apartment rent free for a year in exchange for loaning this money to the apartment owner. After a year he was to pay this money back or forfeit his apartment. Ilona's husband had other ideas about this money. Something with more growth. The long and short of it they lost all the money. I wondered if Sasha and his criminal friends had something to do with it? I asked her where did her ex-husband find out about this "investment" but she didn't want to talk about it anymore.


Complicating Things


I told Ilona I needed to get to the gym 3 times a week and maybe she could push me. I'd get her gym membership (80 GEL per month) and she only needed to be a translator to my my personal trainer Dmitry. Other than that she could be off on her own. This lead to needed day care for her two children. That cost 20 GEL ($6.92) for 2 hours.


Me showing up with Ilona at the gym got people wondering what our relationship was. The gym owner asked her if she was living with me. The powerlifting champion Data would ask "Where's Ilona?" with a big smile on his face if she wasn't there. I couldn't care less what people speculated. The 40 year, 5 month and 4 day age difference I never thought for a moment there would be anything more than a possible platonic friendship.


But a friendship never happened and could never happen. Not because of me, but because of Ilona. She had explained to me that Sasha being only 41 years old (42 by now) it was possible to be friends with him. She did not say it would be impossible to be friends with me, but it had been implied. Now I can be friends with people of any age. When I was in my early twenties my ex-wife and I were friends of a much older couple. He was a history teacher, a former Marine who fought the Japanese in Iwo Jima. We used to have each over for dinner and go to restaurants together. Age difference as far as friendship means nothing to me. But Ilona was different. She feared getting old. She told me so. Being around old people was uncomfortable for her. And I am old. I got to say that stung quite a bit.


The First Red Flag


The first red flag was not the November delay. Tying up loose ends after a divorce was to be expected. I wanted her to do so she could concentrate on this business. What the first red flag was was her inability to get up early. When I say early I mean out the door by 10 AM. I would pick her up outside her place. I'd send her a WhatsApp message and she would send me one back that she wasn't ready yet. Usually the children were sleeping or they were eating their breakfast. 11:30 was the best they could do. And that only happened twice before things slid back to noon. Ilona's last day we didn't meet until 12:45 PM. I spent a lot of time waiting in my car or walking about waiting for them to come.


The second red flag. A few weeks ago Ilona had enrolled her daughter in a 2 hour class on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 2 PM to 4 PM. I was the chauffeur. 
 





Thursday The Final Day


We dropped the children of at the daycare center. 20 GEL ($6.92) for two hours. Then to the hospital to get some tests done. We are seeing if my health is OK enough to do this business. My blood pressure has been high. I need to get to get on the right medication and that is what the tests are for. When I got to the hospital I had forgot the list of things to check for. Something my doctor wrote. So back home we went. It was too late for the hospital tests. Ilona reminded me her daughter's class started at 2:30. We hadn't gotten going that day to 12:45 PM due to
Ilona's delays.


Thursday was a beautiful day. The last one we had was days ago. I heard Ilona laugh. I asked why? She said, "Because my friend sent me message to enjoy this beautiful day knowing I can't. I should tell her "Phuck You!" She doesn't need to work. Her husband supports her."  I'm thinking it is Natasha.


Then she tells me she is taking the rest of the day off. We got to pick up the children from the daycare center and bring her daughter to her 2:30 lesson, kill a few hours and pick her up at 4:30 and she will take the rest of the day off. AND she told me that she shouldn't have to work with me every day and that she should pick out what days of the week we will work together. She says she can work at home.


Several days ago she told me her man friend from Poti a businessman discussed the costs of starting this business. They figured the total cost for equipment and other things would come to $3,300. I asked Ilona "exactly what were the other things? Did it include furniture? The venting? Installation costs? What exactly?" She would not answer me. She told me, "Look it up yourself"  :wallbash:  I said to her, "I'm asking you." She said, "I sent you all the information so figure it yourself." Then I went into the WhatsApp and showed her what she sent me. Only one item, the hot and cold unit was priced. And even that was not clear if it was a piece or together.


Ilona said some insulting things to me. She said I wasn't serious about this business. That I wouldn't do it. I told her I just spend $1000 for two months rent. She told me it was just a hobby for me and I wasn't serious about starting it. Clearly she was getting that FSU negative vibe from her "friends".


I told her, "Ilona I like you but is is clear you don't like me." She said nothing. She told me once she liked bad boys like her ex-husband and Sasha. I am not a bad boy.


We left for the daycare center to pick up the children. I asked Ilona for her key to the building. She put it on the dashboard. I put in my pocket. I told her that her friends do nothing for her. They will not support her. I told her Sasha invited her to the mountains in Turkey but didn't offer to pay her way. I brought them to the daughter's lesson. I gave Ilona her final pay. She got the children out of the back seat and I drove off.


I shouldn't have picked someone with children who has no control over them. Her son is the worst behaved child I have ever seen! The FSU little prince/little tyrant. I shouldn't have picked someone who has criminal friends. On and on.


Monday I am going with Alex to the hospital for tests. Then off to the cardiologist. Tuesday if all goes well I'll be heading for Tbilisi by train. Nino who I got Moby a place to stay has her apartment available Tuesday and Wednesday nights. I'll have my friend Givi taxi me about. Monday a new shipment of used equipment is coming in from Turkey. 

I got a young friend, a son of an Ukrainian woman I know. He said this below.

I think Ilona has got some issues. Mommies like her are called "brain cancer mommies" in Russian. She thinks everyone owes her, that's why she behaves that way.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 09:44:33 AM by Maxx2 »

Online jone

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2020, 09:43:31 AM »
Wow, Maxx,

Reading this it seems like you were her employee, not the other way around.
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Online Maxx2

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2020, 09:52:20 AM »
Wow, Maxx,

Reading this it seems like you were her employee, not the other way around.


Exactly. it was incrementalism. She seen I was kind, patient and wanted to help her. I think she believed I could never fire her. She might even think I will ask that she come back to work for me. I am certain her "friends" were giving her advice. She told me once that she preferred men friends over women because men were more direct. She said woman friends are manipulative. Then later she told me she was playing a game with her ex-husband. Giving him the hope they would reconcile and hoping he will take the kids from time to time and start paying her support.


Jone, I play dumb sometimes. I sit back and watch people. Eventually everyone reveals his/her true self.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2020, 09:56:21 AM »
Unfortunately maxx, like I said upthread when you implied you're setting up a business to find a wife. Getting emotionally caught-up with a 26 year old mother of 2, in the guise of starting a business, is an even-more recipe for disaster to an already challenging and demanding venture in itself.

Find peace in yourself first, maxx. Everything else will follow and fall into place. There isn't much time...
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2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2020, 10:10:34 AM »
Really unfortunate Maxx.  I feel for you.  Hope for better times ahead.

As many people have stated here (and probably in many other places), it is difficult when you try to mix cultures.  Particularly when one or both parties have the worst traits of their culture.

I am pretty lucky in that my wife and I have not had much in the way of trouble concerning our mixed cultures.  Possibly because neither of us has real strong negative traits and are pretty flexible.

Yes, she does at time throw out some weird stuff, but not too often.

Example:  Recently when we were going into the garage to leave for a BB game, there was a small spider on the floor of laundry room (which leads out to garage).  I made a move to step on it, and she said: "Don't . . . it is bad luck to step on spider in the house."

I ignored her, and stepped on it.  Then our women lost the BB game . . . so she threw it up to me.  Only lightly, but it was there just the same.  :-)))
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2020, 12:47:21 PM »
Thank you ML for your comments. They mean a lot to me.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2020, 03:37:13 PM »
IMHO, this has zero to do with FSU "mentality", whatever that is.

I think Ilona sat next to you because she was on a mission.  She is in that criminal world.  Her mission was never to work full time, to earn an honest day's wage.  It was to discover how much money you have. The mission to find your net worth was a group effort.  Sasha came in and accosted Ilona precisely because you were there.  It likely would not have occurred had you not been there.  It was a method of gaining your trust and sympathy.  Think about it.  Why would someone leave Belarus to live in Georgia?

People in that region who carry on criminal activity don't do so openly, in a way that others know about it, let alone disclose it with yet others.  If Sasha is actually laundering money, and others know, that means he has some sort of "state" protection, where he isn't worried about his illicit activities being known openly.

I suggest that you not pay workers above of the local market.  Pay them 10/% above the market for loyalty, no more.  You can increase it with year end bonuses, or increase their base pay each year.

PS - The "I'm 42" from Sasha was meant as, he is going to be alive a long time, and still needs to earn/steal a living.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:01:16 PM by Boethius »
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 10:16:15 PM »
Maxx, drill sergeants have a high success rate in making undisciplined people disciplined. It’s okay to be tougher as a boss. Being a nice guy will get the employees to think they can get away with things, come to work late, and decide what days to come to work. Laying down the law early and keeping employees disciplined will mean you won’t have to fire people as often.
There are people that will pass info about you and your family. Do not share info about yourself or share photos as they can search for you on the internet and distribute what they found since they are allowed to participate here.

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2020, 12:31:48 AM »

Exactly. it was incrementalism. She seen I was kind, patient and wanted to help her. I think she believed I could never fire her. She might even think I will ask that she come back to work for me. I am certain her "friends" were giving her advice. She told me once that she preferred men friends over women because men were more direct. She said woman friends are manipulative. Then later she told me she was playing a game with her ex-husband. Giving him the hope they would reconcile and hoping he will take the kids from time to time and start paying her support.


Jone, I play dumb sometimes. I sit back and watch people. Eventually everyone reveals his/her true self.

Maxx, being 'nice' in the FSU by being generous to be nice to someone isn't something you should do. I learned that myself with the Kherson girl I was with, it just gets rewarded by that person getting worse & worse behaviour to you. Better to go along with the standard and not shift from that. It's actually counter productive out there to be overly generous you will just be taken for granted, be seen as weak and easily taken. Towards the end Ilona was taking the pee. You were lucky she wasn't more manipulative though, they can be. Treating people too nice out in the FSU can lead to them disrespecting you. Paying too much will lead people to think you don't know the value of things and they will seek to take advantage and think you are a mug for not knowing.

Boe is right, just pay slightly above the going rate, don't be so over the top compared to the going rate, it will do you no favours as you have seen. Even if it is not a big deal to you it will result in bad outcomes.

I think Boe is right too in the relationships you fell into not being a good situation to be in. I would count your blessings that you got lucky and ended the situation in not a bad way. It could have been much worse, they could have done you in, tried to do you over to get to your money. They probably figured as your income stream is reliant on you being alive there was not much long term prospects for them there. Others might decide otherwise so be very careful in future. Some people see a chance for big money, will see you as vulnerable and will act callously to get at it.

So throwing your money around out there is a big no, no.

I learnt out in Ukraine from my Lviv trip that the best way in the FSU is to be as Independent as possible. Try to become as self sufficient as possible to avoid becoming dependant upon others.

Keep social stuff social and never mention business stuff. If anything dumb down any idea that you are doing well/well off unless there is a very good reason to do so.

If you need to hire anyone to assist you in setting up get someone more work orientated, a professional and just pay the going rate or slightly above. Avoid at all costs social circles as you could be swimming in a pool of pirahna's. The situation you were in with people with their complex relationship issues is not what you need and again can lead to volatile and hence bad outcomes that you don't want to be subject too.

So in general seek to keep a lower profile. Hire individuals more than those with complex relationship situations to avoid getting wrapped up in them and watch your back.
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2020, 12:43:52 AM »
Trench brings up some good points about trusting people in the FSU.  If you are generous, they are likely to try and take advantage of you sooner or later.  I fronted several $k to my closest friend to purchase a dacha next to his near Cherkassy.  When I returned on my next trip I discovered that he bought a new car with the money and claimed the dacha owner changed their mind about selling.  Not even an apology for misappropriating the money.  Fortunately my wife is somewhat tenacious and recovered all but $500 of the money.  Needless to say, I have not visited them since the incident. I blame myself for being so trusting and stupid.  Understanding the culture is the most important ingredient.
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2020, 12:54:40 AM »
IMHO, this has zero to do with FSU "mentality", whatever that is.

I think Ilona sat next to you because she was on a mission.  She is in that criminal world.  Her mission was never to work full time, to earn an honest day's wage. It was to discover how much money you have. The mission to find your net worth was a group effort.  Sasha came in and accosted Ilona precisely because you were there.  It likely would not have occurred had you not been there.  It was a method of gaining your trust and sympathy.  Think about it.  Why would someone leave Belarus to live in Georgia?

People in that region who carry on criminal activity don't do so openly, in a way that others know about it, let alone disclose it with yet others.  If Sasha is actually laundering money, and others know, that means he has some sort of "state" protection, where he isn't worried about his illicit activities being known openly.

I suggest that you not pay workers so far above of the local market.  Pay them 10/% above the market for loyalty, no more.  You can increase it with year end bonuses, or increase their base pay each year.

PS - The "I'm 42" from Sasha was meant as, he is going to be alive a long time, and still needs to earn/steal a living.

This post was composed without the aid of google.


You might be right. My friend Alex told them about my idea of starting a restaurant and they knew I was coming. She does have criminal friends. I doubt though Sasha was playing a game in coordination with her to bring the white knight out of me. He was really high. She though might have wanted to be rescued with the benefits that would follow. I'm pretty certain she has contempt for me. The kind of contempt criminals have towards their victims. I told her her "friends" are going to think she is stupid in that she was getting paid well and could have rode that for as long as it would go. 

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2020, 01:12:41 AM »
Trench brings up some good points about trusting people in the FSU.  If you are generous, they are likely to try and take advantage of you sooner or later. 


EVERYONE here is suspicious of others. EVERYONE assumes a scam is in the making. I could give you examples but maybe someone here might stir up trouble for me.

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2020, 01:21:40 AM »

You might be right. My friend Alex told them about my idea of starting a restaurant and they knew I was coming. She does have criminal friends. I doubt though Sasha was playing a game in coordination with her to bring the white knight out of me. He was really high. She though might have wanted to be rescued with the benefits that would follow. I'm pretty certain she has contempt for me. The kind of contempt criminals have towards their victims. I told her her "friends" are going to think she is stupid in that she was getting paid well and could have rode that for as long as it would go.

She probably has learnt contempt for you as soon as she could see she could take advantage of you and started to do so.

I think you need to also think about what you paying over the odds may have communicated out there. Out there the only reason a local girl would likely see if a guy was paying so much over the odds would be if he wanted something 'extra' on top of the usual. Otherwise there is no reason to do so in their view. So as she accepted this situation she would have probably spread them wide if you had asked her too. I think you still think with a western mindset that 'I'm way too old for her' and off doing right by a girl in a difficult situation with two kids. Its a different mindset out there though, girls out there  moreso the bad ones will work on a quid pro quo basis, transactional girls, etc without actually being girls officially on the game as we know it.

I know Krimster has told us that if we want some with a girl then the 'interview for a job & pay double lolly technique' is the way to go to get a girls knickers down. I think you unwittingly did not realise you were doing this Maxx as our culture's are different. They seem to have little concept of a guy being decent by offering way more. It's either he wants some or he is a gullible fool. Once it became clear that you didn't want some as time passed and you told her more or less so then the latter became what she thought.

It's kind of strange how different stuff means different things between our culture's and they don't realise how things are where we are. Though to be fair it usually takes me a bit of time to become acclimatized to their mentality and culture when out that way.
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2020, 01:53:33 AM »
She probably has learnt contempt for you as soon as she could see she could take advantage of you and started to do so.

I think you need to also think about what you paying over the odds may have communicated out there. Out there the only reason a local girl would likely see if a guy was paying so much over the odds would be if he wanted something 'extra' on top of the usual. Otherwise there is no reason to do so in their view. So as she accepted this situation she would have probably spread them wide if you had asked her too. I think you still think with a western mindset that 'I'm way too old for her' and off doing right by a girl in a difficult situation with two kids. Its a different mindset out there though, girls out there  moreso the bad ones will work on a quid pro quo basis, transactional girls, etc without actually being girls officially on the game as we know it.

I know Krimster has told us that if we want some with a girl then the 'interview for a job & pay double lolly technique' is the way to go to get a girls knickers down. I think you unwittingly did not realise you were doing this Maxx as our culture's are different. They seem to have little concept of a guy being decent by offering way more. It's either he wants some or he is a gullible fool. Once it became clear that you didn't want some as time passed and you told her more or less so then the latter became what she thought.

It's kind of strange how different stuff means different things between our culture's and they don't realise how things are where we are. Though to be fair it usually takes me a bit of time to become acclimatized to their mentality and culture when out that way.


I found her attractive BUT I knew it would be a big mistake if we ever got involved. This is true for any young woman. Can you imagine how you would feel when you suspicioned or knew that she is seeing other men and probably was bad mouthing you? Getting involved with anyone at my age (66) who isn't or couldn't be a grandmother would be a big mistake. Young people value their youth. That is usually all they have going for them.


I have a new friend, Mehmet. He is a former Turkish diplomate now a refugee, 44 years old. Hasn't seen his wife or two sons in 3 years. I met his wife via video Skype or other. Beautiful woman! I was talking with him about this situation. That people thought we might be together. I told him I thought it was ridiculous. He said in his culture it wasn't. Even a 50 year age difference happens. But don't worry I am not going to convert.  ;D 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 01:55:06 AM by Maxx2 »

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2020, 02:21:31 AM »
Trenchcoat,

You are, as ever, falling over yourself to prove how badly you read women.

I would bet you a million quid that the lass would NOT have put out, despite Maxx ' sponsorship overtures whether he realised it, or not.

Also, I do not believe Maxx would try it on.

This is not the first time Maxx has blamed other folk for (negatively)  influencing how a person might feel about him.



Maxx, I am sure you will take this the WRONG way, but what I am saying it REALLY not meant to be a dig... more of a wake up call...

I want you to realise that your description of events would likely be somewhat different if Ilona had a say.

S worked like a trooper and would probably have worked 100 hours a week ....driving you crazy...wanting things to be so clean...


You have knocked at least two FSU ladies, recently, citing their 'mental issues' and possible craziness AFTER they stop respecting you....

 In the case of Ilona, she is a pretty lass and a single Mum. From your description of events it seems you spent time leisure time together that brought about knowing winks and YOU enjoyed that...))

You mentioned how her looks distracted you and posted her photos here. You liked her and you've hurt.



I get that having a pretty young think will draw in the  punters, but you have witnessed how some FSU W will work...HARD..and young Mum's with two young kids are NOT going to be as able to give you that sort of dedication.

I WANT this biz of yours to succeed and for you to find happiness, but while you suggested I 'overly indulge' SCs needs ( and I am glad, mostly) I have formed a relationship where we know the boundaries and crossing them causes ripples.

YOU do not sit back and observe ( in the case of pretty ladies, for certain!) ..YOU offer to sponsor them, before the relationship boundaries have been agreed.

This does NOT make you 'BAD' but it might overwhelm the recipient and you will not earn respect.

Again, this is NOT meant to be a dig...You are trying to make a go of things and it would be great for you to have a lady in your life to rely on...


Concentrate on the biz the friendship you seek may follow.

Good luck.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 02:28:21 AM by msmob »
We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2020, 02:35:54 AM »

I found her attractive BUT I knew it would be a big mistake if we ever got involved. This is true for any young woman. Can you imagine how you would feel when you suspicioned or knew that she is seeing other men and probably was bad mouthing you? Getting involved with anyone at my age (66) who isn't or couldn't be a grandmother would be a big mistake. Young people value their youth. That is usually all they have going for them.


I have a new friend, Mehmet. He is a former Turkish diplomate now a refugee, 44 years old. Hasn't seen his wife or two sons in 3 years. I met his wife via video Skype or other. Beautiful woman! I was talking with him about this situation. That people thought we might be together. I told him I thought it was ridiculous. He said in his culture it wasn't. Even a 50 year age difference happens. But don't worry I am not going to convert.  ;D

Exactly, it is all they have to trade, in work because they are usually healthy enough and for women beyond that in intimacy.

Now not all women will do that out there, but consider women will get paid less than men if they are not in a professional corporate job or similar. They will be paid badly, the $150 dollars a month that we so often hear about our there. I think Ilona may have been equally unaware that you were paying her more to be decent/for a good service to be well looked after in a forma business way. I'm not sure that if you had made clear to her this is what you intended would have made a difference. The cultural norm of what paying double entails out there might have been too great for her to get her head around.

I think your new friend is right. Women out there don't care so much for age. Out there a young guy with money will trump an old guy with money, but an old guy with money can trump a young guy without money, for some girls at least.

If an attractive girl who wants a comfortable living meets an Oligarch out there then he will be like a god to her. She will not care of his age just that she won't have to chose between many of the younger poor guys that make up the population out there. She will be with someone rich and powerful and hence she will be inferred status and reward. Being one of the lower orders out there is not seen as a great scene to be a part of for many young girls so an age thing isn't really an issue for them, a better social standing is. After all, youth can be somewhat fleeting, a girl of 26-27 only has a few years left till she's in her thirties and getting seen as over the hill. Cashing her chips in for a better long term lifestyle at that age is not a bad deal for such a girl, especially with kids to pay for.

I was reading on Roosh's forum a while ago (apparently a changed man now, found religion and after a wife) that one guy met a group of girls sunbathing in Belarus, anyway he got talking to one, she basically offered to drop her bikini bottoms in return for a $50 skirt. He readily agreed and enjoyed his end of the bargain. So it really just goes to show the mentality of some of the women out there. Money really does talk you just need to know how and when.

That's why I think your idea of a restaurant is a good one Maxx. It will give you greater social status. You will no longer be seen as another retiree of unknown means, you will have a clear social standing in their society and a good one. Not of course like an Oligarch they are very few and far between but suitable enough to be attractive to many women. So roll with what you've got I say :)
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2020, 02:53:58 AM »



My motivation for paying her well was to motivate her to get this business going. I didn't learn of her ex-husband and him wanting her back until after I hired her. Then it occurred to me she might have not only a positive motivating her to make this business succeed but the negative consequences if it didn't.


Moby, the first time you have wished me success was right after I told Sonya about the business. We were making plans to see each other. You wished me success on this board. Then shortly later said "IT'S OVER" in regard to Sonya. Sonya cut me off right after that. You could have brought us together but I failed in your words, "The test". I failed to do an act of submission to you by not sending you $10. I had confidence that I could put up with your temper, insults and cheapness. What I didn't see coming was needing to show obeisance to you. You said Misha and you cooked up the "test." Shame on both of you.   


Round 4 probably has begun. We had an agreement not to fight.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 03:09:08 AM by Maxx2 »

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2020, 03:07:51 AM »
Exactly, it is all they have to trade, in work because they are usually healthy enough and for women beyond that in intimacy.

I think Ilona may have been equally unaware that you were paying her more to be decent/for a good service to be well looked after in a forma business way. I'm not sure that if you had made clear to her this is what you intended would have made a difference.


Actually I was very clear about that. I told her I was paying her enough so she could support herself and could concentrate on getting this business going. I told her if this business was to succeed, she would too. I also told her that she and I had a professional relationship, only. She clearly understood what I meant and told me so. I told her I didn't expect to see her after business hours and that I limit communication with her on her time off. But she like many women in these parts wanted to see how far she could push the envelope. And no doubt there was a little help from her "friends" in doing this. 

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2020, 03:32:07 AM »

Actually I was very clear about that. I told her I was paying her enough so she could support herself and could concentrate on getting this business going. I told her if this business was to succeed, she would too. I also told her that she and I had a professional relationship, only. She clearly understood what I meant and told me so. I told her I didn't expect to see her after business hours and that I limit communication with her on her time off. But she like many women in these parts wanted to see how far she could push the envelope. And no doubt there was a little help from her "friends" in doing this.

Sounds like you ruled out the sponsorship side as far in your mind that you could off. I think that probably left the default in her mind of a weak guy that doesn't know the value of stuff. I think the pay more get the service culture of Americans is something they struggle to grasp over there. I know in the past Americans used to visit the UK and do this but we grasped it FSU mentality does not seem to get it however. I think it's because their society is so poor they see it as perculiar that someone pay double unless there is an unseemly motive to it.

I think with hindsight if you paid the going rate you would have faired no worse, likely better even. I think you should have looked to get the work you wanted out of her done for the going rate as after all that is the payoff for that work rate is. It's how it works out there it seems and as they say when in Rome do as the Romans do. Being unaware of the conventions is not your fault it's something anyone of us could do and many of us myself included have done. I don't see much point in dwelling on this, just learn what there is to be learned, avoid making the same mistakes again, be greatful it didn't turnout worse and move on I think.

I think now pushing on with getting your restaurant open for the tourist season is most important. You need to be sure you hit the season and not end up taking so long with setting it up that you miss most of the season, that would be a big issue.

If you need assistance in doing this find a work orientated person to do this, doesn't matter make or female. You need someone hard working and commited, you can reward them later after they have proven their worth.
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2020, 03:47:49 AM »
I think that probably left the default in her mind of a weak guy that doesn't know the value of stuff.


That maybe true. She wouldn't have told me that she wanted to set her own hours and what days she wanted to work unless she thought I was weak and would let her get away with it. I think Thursday and what happened came as quite a surprise to her and her "friends."

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2020, 04:33:59 AM »

That maybe true. She wouldn't have told me that she wanted to set her own hours and what days she wanted to work unless she thought I was weak and would let her get away with it. I think Thursday and what happened came as quite a surprise to her and her "friends."

Yeah see that's the thing they thought that you would be a push over on everything so might as well carry on that way, they saw this as your default personality. Then it takes them by surprise that you suddenly act different. They don't know that in western society there is generally an unspoken obligation that you act in a reasonable manner to a generous boss and if you act to betray that generousity then your boss is entitled to act otherwise to deal with it.

I think BillyB here gives good advice on how to treat employees. You have to set out the days and times up front and make clear all of your expectations, set boundaries and remind them of this whenever they stray.

The Kherson girl I was with I should have been more forward upfront with how things would be. Letting the woman start trying to decide stuff is a big mistake. Get into the decider/lead role upfront by giving direction at the first opportunity. They will then look to you for future direction.
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2020, 04:46:26 AM »
Run, Forrest, Run!

People of dubious character will eventually burn you one way or another, and even worse if they have mental health issues (which may be the case if she was being beaten and living within a criminal class). This is the world over not just the FSU.

I'd also suggest you need to more "cold" in business dealings in the FSU. Strictly business, not helping out a damsel in distress. They're not your problems, so why make them your problems?


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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2020, 05:12:36 AM »
Unfortunately maxx, like I said upthread when you implied you're setting up a business to find a wife. Getting emotionally caught-up with a 26 year old mother of 2, in the guise of starting a business, is an even-more recipe for disaster to an already challenging and demanding venture in itself.

Find peace in yourself first, maxx. Everything else will follow and fall into place. There isn't much time...


For me possibly and for the coming tourist season. Yesterday I visited my Russian teacher Oksana and her husband. She asked me if I was married yet, then did I have a girlfriend? She said I needed to hurry up on that.


I wasn't too emotionally involved. It is not easy to work with someone and not develop some feelings. As example her kids especially her daughter brought out the inner grandfather in me. But I didn't set out to get caught-up and wasn't.

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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2020, 05:22:46 AM »
I wasn't too emotionally involved. It is not easy to work with someone and not develop some feelings. As example her kids especially her daughter brought out the inner grandfather in me. But I didn't set out to get caught-up and wasn't.

Maybe not caught up as you weren't involved in their life as in directly with their problems/situation. I think though you were too familiar with them, for business the saying 'friendly not familiar' is probably a good one. Knowing too much about an employee's personal life can draw you in when it's probably better not to.

It's different of course if you are hiring on the basis of finding a woman for yourself. In that case though I wouldn't put them in a role that was integral for the business. I think the person you need to help you set up is someone more hard working, work orientated, may someone with admin or catering experience, knows where to go, what to buy, where to put what etc.
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Re: Ilona and the FSU mentality
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2020, 06:00:59 AM »
Maybe not caught up as you weren't involved in their life as in directly with their problems/situation. I think though you were too familiar with them, for business the saying 'friendly not familiar' is probably a good one. Knowing too much about an employee's personal life can draw you in when it's probably better not to.

It's different of course if you are hiring on the basis of finding a woman for yourself. In that case though I wouldn't put them in a role that was integral for the business. I think the person you need to help you set up is someone more hard working, work orientated, may someone with admin or catering experience, knows where to go, what to buy, where to put what etc.


Familiarity breeds contempt and it leads to getting too involved in other peoples' lives. Now add in outside influence and at least 2 people, Sasha and the ex wishing for my failure there will be trouble.

 

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