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Author Topic: List of Russians and parties 'banned' from holding office on bogus prextexts  (Read 821 times)

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Online msmob

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Rather than spoil ML surrogacy thread, I'm responding to Shadow's 'challenge' to name hundreds of folks/ parties so affected.

Moscow Elections: 30 opposition candidates 'banned' from standing on 'technicalities'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49125045

Officials disqualified about 30 people, saying they had failed to collect enough valid signatures to stand.



Presidential elections: Navalny 'banned' from candidacy on 'criminal act' that the ECHR found to be bogus and politically motivated

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-politics-navalny/freed-kremlin-critic-navalny-predicts-bigger-opposition-protests-idUSKCN1VD0J0


Younger protesters:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/10/thousands-march-in-moscow-disqualification-city-elections

I think I need to find approx another 70 names ..





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Offline Shadow

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I have asked for candidates Russians will accept.
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Offline Boethius

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How do you know none of those candidates would be accepted, Shadow?  No one can know that without seeing the election results of those candidates.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Online msmob

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How do you know none of those candidates would be accepted, Shadow?  No one can know that without seeing the election results of those candidates.



Election 'results' ?

I know a handful of people who voted ( at all ) in the Presidential elections...   
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Offline Boethius

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Whether people choose to vote or not is irrelevant.  Not every eligible voter in the UK voted either, yet no one suggest Boris Johnson is not the legitimately elected PM of the UK.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
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When you look at the bad things that happen to serious contenders for the Russian Presidency and Oligarchs that get into politics, who'd be motivated to run against Putin? Russians will never truly get a large enough group of people to choose from to elect as president which reduces their chances of getting the best man in to do the job. It reduces the chances of Russia getting out of the hole Putin put them in.
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Offline Shadow

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A list of people who did not obtin enough votes can be found in any country.

My challenge is to name any viable candidate that people within Russia consider a real challenger for Putin. Clowns pushd by Western mdia are not being accepted as suc.
This means you would actually have to know Russian politics instead of Google.Perhaps Yandex could do a better job, but still doubtful...
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Offline Boethius

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That's sort of chicken/egg, though.  How can a candidate become viable if he/she is not able to have his/her name placed on a ballot?  Or if he/she is harassed by the state?


Over 1 in 4 Muscovites voted for Navalny, in elections that may not have been free, so you can't say he was pushed by Western media.



This post was composed without the aid of google.
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Online msmob

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A list of people who did not obtin enough votes can be found in any country.

My challenge is to name any viable candidate that people within Russia consider a real challenger for Putin. Clowns pushd by Western mdia are not being accepted as suc.
This means you would actually have to know Russian politics instead of Google.Perhaps Yandex could do a better job, but still doubtful...

Your 'clowns' are not just 'pushed by 'western media' and please name the western nations that have such onerous requirements to

1:/ form political parties

2:/ have NUMEROUS facts found by the ECHR that charges / 'criminal acts' are used to exclude candidates...

@Boethius I have no doubt Boris won the most seats in the UK's most recent election... in a system that, other than N.Ireland, sucks .. but I certainly don't believe there was manipulation to exclude candidates on bogus pretexts, nor 'turnouts' and 'results' that few believe.

More to follow ..

Shadow  is constantly in denial as to a pent up feeling of frustration / anger in the younger Russians that VVP is trying to keep a lid on ..   


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If former President, Prime Minister and high level party official Medvedev could be forced out of politics by Putin, what chance does anybody else have? Putin can change the election rules to make himself King for a lifetime.
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Offline Shadow

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As stated, you can not come up with  candidate that fits the requirements.This is the issue that also the Russians themselves are wrestling with.
Putin is not ideal, but while has has not trained a successor who might manage to keep his level of control, Russians will rather go with the evil they know.
It is very much a chicken/egg situation, but that does not mean Putin is doing a bad job for Russia.

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Online msmob

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If former President, Prime Minister and high level party official Medvedev could be forced out of politics by Putin, what chance does anybody else have? Putin can change the election rules to make himself King for a lifetime.

Medvedev was simply sacrificed ..as he was busted, repeatedly for corrupt practices and was the fall guy for unpopular decisions like raising pension age... VVP has been distancing himself for unpopular decisions.

For sure, VVP seems to be in a big rush to push through his latest 'keep me in power' rule changes, with a postal vote being considered during this crisis
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Online msmob

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As stated, you can not come up with  candidate that fits the requirements.This is the issue that also the Russians themselves are wrestling with.
Putin is not ideal, but while has has not trained a successor who might manage to keep his level of control, Russians will rather go with the evil they know.
It is very much a chicken/egg situation, but that does not mean Putin is doing a bad job for Russia.

Er, Sorry, Shadow, you are TRYING to suggest that  :D


Russians have no choice, because no new political parties can be formed ... 'Putin Franchise OOO' s plan to stifle a competitor / competition cannot be removed until it is outvoted and they ensure no airtime on the media THEY control.

Once again I have to wonder is your obtuse denial support for such skull-duggery ?  You simply cannot be aware of reality on the ground.


Most Russians are STILL not political and feel there's nothing they can do to change things..that is not 'support'
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 02:00:40 AM by msmob »
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Offline Shadow

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I am not the on in denial. In fact I am te one who is supporting democracy. Which includes that if the people of a country wish to choose a leader that I disagree with, I still respect their choice.
Regardless of political games, there is little doubt that ther is no need to fix any election. If the best opponent can get 25% in his strongest region that should be a clear indication. I do not have the data but if either Boris Johnson or Trump got 75% in any region I would be surprised.
Your personal dislike is just making you deny reality.

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Online msmob

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I am not the on in denial. In fact I am te one who is supporting democracy.

 :ROFL:

What is 'democratic' about ensuring no ( unfriendly)  opposition movements can be 'officially' recognised and entitled to airtime..?


Which includes that if the people of a country wish to choose a leader that I disagree with, I still respect their choice.


More fool you, if you believe the 'result' .. Of course VVP / the United Russia Party 'win' ..

Regardless of political games, there is little doubt that ther is no need to fix any election. If the best opponent can get 25% in his strongest region that should be a clear indication. I do not have the data but if either Boris Johnson or Trump got 75% in any region I would be surprised.
Your personal dislike is just making you deny reality.

Not only IS there a need to fix results, the turnout is manipulated as it is SO low...hence civil servants being 'encouraged' to vote and being 'asked' to send in a photo of the little card they got to 'prove it' ... PATHETIC


One of my friends had the 'flu... 'they' were added to a WhatsApp group and pestered to vote, then called, and the recipient was most insistent that 'flu was "no excuse" as "voting was important and one had to support a worthy candidate"..  ( no names mentioned )

The call was simply ended and the phone turned off ..


Now please try to tell me this is 'normal', rather than a desperate need to get voters to make the farce 'representative' ...


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Offline Shadow

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Same happened during recent Dutch elections, so yeah it seems to be normal. Just some dinosaurs think it happens only in...
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Online msmob

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Same happened during recent Dutch elections, so yeah it seems to be normal. Just some dinosaurs think it happens only in...

Lots of questions you chose to ignore, Shadow.. like finding me a 'democratic' nation with such onerous numbers required to form a party of stand for election

I'm sure there are political parties that check to see if one voted, but civil servants ? ..



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Offline Faux Pas

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Not only IS there a need to fix results, the turnout is manipulated as it is SO low...hence civil servants being 'encouraged' to vote and being 'asked' to send in a photo of the little card they got to 'prove it' ... PATHETIC



Your words Moobs, not mine. I know much more on the subject than you have any possibility of understanding. I remain neutral and this particular subject of Russian elections because mainly, I'm not Russian. But the fact remains, changes are made inside the ballot box not outside for manipulation. Is there anything you won't do to manipulate an election in your favor? Just wondering :D
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:40:53 AM by Faux Pas »

Online msmob

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This statement is appalling. A need to "fix" the results? As in to YOUR desired result? In most honest elections the results are fixed inside the ballot box, not out

'OK' Mr Mistake has arrived to feel the need to prove he knows NOTHING about the subject in hand, but was bored ' :welcome:'
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Offline Faux Pas

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Not only IS there a need to fix results, the turnout is manipulated as it is SO low...hence civil servants being 'encouraged' to vote and being 'asked' to send in a photo of the little card they got to 'prove it' ... PATHETIC



Your words Moobs, not mine. I know much more on the subject than you have any possibility of understanding. I remain neutral and this particular subject of Russian elections because mainly, I'm not Russian. But the fact remains, changes are made inside the ballot box not outside for manipulation. Is there anything you won't do to manipulate an election in your favor? Just wondering :D

Online BillyB

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Medvedev was simply sacrificed ..as he was busted, repeatedly for corrupt practices and was the fall guy for unpopular decisions like raising pension age... VVP has been distancing himself for unpopular decisions.


Yeah, Putin distances himself from corrupt politicians because he has a reputation to protect.


Moby, would you support a fixed election? I suspect you would. When it came to Brexit and if the Remainers won but it was later found out they stuffed the ballot box, would you do the right thing and give the win to Leave? Would you be fair or selfish? Selfish people enable governments to become corrupt.
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Online msmob

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Moby, would you support a fixed election? I suspect you would.

BillyB, you're an IDIOT.. Why would I make such a fuss about corrupt practices and they 'support 'em?


 When it came to Brexit and if the Remainers won but it was later found out they stuffed the ballot box, would you do the right thing and give the win to Leave? Would you be fair or selfish? Selfish people enable governments to become corrupt.

The first ballot was yes or no VERY close - The Leave team lied

The 'Brexit' we may get is NOTHING akin to their 'promises' and if you bothered to check, you'd realise

I'm a 'rejoiner', now
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The first ballot was yes or no VERY close - The Leave team lied


So if your side stuffed the ballot box because you determined the other side lied and your side didn't, you'd be okay with cheating. You're not much different than the people who'd validate stealing the election because they believed the other guy did something wrong.
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Online msmob

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BillyB, you are on a roll of STUPID, today..

The UK is not Russia...there we have seen ballet boxes being stuffed.

I have not mentioned stuffing ballet boxes..


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The UK is not Russia...


It's not okay for Russians to manipulate an election to get their way but it's okay you not honoring one such as Brexit and fighting against it for years? Fortunately Boris put an end to the expensive and destructive mess your side created. Putin probably had a good laugh over what happened in the UK and in America watching the Democrats try to bring down a duly elected President non stop.
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Online msmob

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It's not okay for Russians to manipulate an election to get their way but it's okay you not honoring one such as Brexit and fighting against it for years? Fortunately Boris put an end to the expensive and destructive mess your side created. Putin probably had a good laugh over what happened in the UK and in America watching the Democrats try to bring down a duly elected President non stop.

BillyB, I realise you are still butt-hurt re your fail across forums for posting FAKE NEWS re what BoJo said about China, but this is not going to 'level the score'

BoJo hasn't sorted out 'Brexit', yet and the GBP falls EVERY time he or a senior Minister ignores the Elephant in the room, no deal = WTO trade terms.

No do TRY to grow up

1/ The UK 'Brexit referendum' result was not fixed .. Sl.more people voted to leave on terms that were promised and bear no relation to the current govt 'negotiating stance' ..

2/ In Russia, or in parts of nations belonging to other sovereign states, 'referendums' are held after military take-overs and elections exclude candidates under bogus pretexts.... that's a finding of FACT according to the European Court of Human Rights and Russia signed up to be bound by its rulings .


We'll be back, EU ..and as a certain 'gentleman' couldn't accept my offer to 'bury the hatchet' .. Don't trust a clueless Californian 'business owner' who cannot even quote me, honestly ..

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BillyB, I realise you are still butt-hurt re your fail across forums for posting FAKE NEWS re what BoJo said about China, but this is not going to 'level the score'

BoJo hasn't sorted out 'Brexit', yet and the GBP falls EVERY time he or a senior Minister ignores the Elephant in the room, no deal = WTO trade terms.

No do TRY to grow up

1/ The UK 'Brexit referendum' result was not fixed .. Sl.more people voted to leave on terms that were promised and bear no relation to the current govt 'negotiating stance' ..

2/ In Russia, or in parts of nations belonging to other sovereign states, 'referendums' are held after military take-overs and elections exclude candidates under bogus pretexts.... that's a finding of FACT according to the European Court of Human Rights and Russia signed up to be bound by its rulings .
I believe that facts about local fixing of elections can be found in any election.The question is does this actually change the outcome?
And if you wish to have facts:1. In the last Dutch parliament elections a party went to old peoples homes colleting ballots to "Help" them voting.2. In the same election in two voting stations recounts were needed as procedures were not followed. In both cases the recounts showed a different result.This in a country where elections are believed to be fair and nobody ever questions results.
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Online msmob

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I believe that facts about local fixing of elections can be found in any election.The question is does this actually change the outcome?
And if you wish to have facts:1. In the last Dutch parliament elections a party went to old peoples homes colleting ballots to "Help" them voting.2. In the same election in two voting stations recounts were needed as procedures were not followed. In both cases the recounts showed a different result.This in a country where elections are believed to be fair and nobody ever questions results.

Shadow,

May be you missed that I'm against vote rigging ( including the legalised form .. non proportional representation, voting [ Eng, Wales and Scotland and the US' 'Electoral College ] )

I'm waiting for you to find any democracy ( may be Turkey is a close competitor) that makes it so onerous to form a political party / be a candidate or has SO many rulings against the state for such skullduggery ..

http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Stats_violation_2019_ENG.pdf

Which nation  'tops the charts' in 2019 ..?

Russia

« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 05:08:36 AM by msmob »
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MsMoby,
It is kind of hilarious to hear such comments from a country that effectively has two political parties, and where getting elected without being a member of either of them is near impossible
Of course you will say that two is better than one.....
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MsMoby,
It is kind of hilarious to hear such comments from a country that effectively has two political parties, and where getting elected without being a member of either of them is near impossible
Of course you will say that two is better than one.....

Shadow,

IF you bothered to read my posts, less selectively ... you'd have noticed my criticising the UK electoral system ( well, GB's )

Now, the title of this thread is still the same ;)


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Shadow,

IF you bothered to read my posts, less selectively ... you'd have noticed my criticising the UK electoral system ( well, GB's )

Now, the title of this thread is still the same ;)
The challenge was done and it is clear there is nobody ou can show. Just a million of excuses about why there is nobody.
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The challenge was done and it is clear there is nobody ou can show. Just a million of excuses about why there is nobody.

The Challenge isn't over.. you should be patient ..

In the meantime, as you suggest I 'failed' . just check back on how many stats you couldn't wouldn't rebuff and we can wonder WHY you still think the current powers that be in Russia are in charge of a Democracy ....
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