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Author Topic: 1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa  (Read 3065 times)

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Offline ML

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2021, 03:21:32 PM »
I did NOT know she was married until she told me while in her underwear.
I stopped what was about to happen and got her out of my apartment.
She should have told me BEFORE taking most of her clothes off.
Tab A did not go into Slot B

OK, then all is forgiven.  I added appropriate points back into your column.

Actually you might have unknowingly had relations with one or more married women.

They have a feeling over there (in FSU)  that if the marriage is over in a commitment sense, then they are free to cavort, even if divorce not finalized or even started.

This developed from fact that all people were assigned to living quarters.  After a divorce, the two persons often went back to living together in the same quarters . . . until alternative living quarters could be assigned to one of the parties.

(And sometimes sex continued between the two; sometimes forced)

Thus, the parties often delayed divorce proceedings until separate living quarters could be obtained.  But they then began (if not before) to act as unmarried persons . . . and they wouldn't necessarily tell all new partners their legal marriage status.

Note:  I encountered a few instances where, if original apartment were large enough, construction was undertaken to develop two apartments out of the original.  I declined to meet the ex-husband in those cases !!!
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online Patagonie

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2021, 10:52:50 PM »
OK, then all is forgiven.  I added appropriate points back into your column.

Actually you might have unknowingly had relations with one or more married women.

They have a feeling over there (in FSU)  that if the marriage is over in a commitment sense, then they are free to cavort, even if divorce not finalized or even started.

This developed from fact that all people were assigned to living quarters.  After a divorce, the two persons often went back to living together in the same quarters . . . until alternative living quarters could be assigned to one of the parties.

(And sometimes sex continued between the two; sometimes forced)

Thus, the parties often delayed divorce proceedings until separate living quarters could be obtained.  But they then began (if not before) to act as unmarried persons . . . and they wouldn't necessarily tell all new partners their legal marriage status.

Note:  I encountered a few instances where, if original apartment were large enough, construction was undertaken to develop two apartments out of the original.  I declined to meet the ex-husband in those cases !!!
+1 good post
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Offline iloveukrayinkas

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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2021, 01:07:15 AM »
Of course I am. All of your experiences from all of your nicks. You are likely the most experienced poster on this or any other forum bar none but that doesn't make you clairvoyant either. Help the chap rather than rain on his parade and degrade. His plan will succeed or fail based on his abilities, not yours

Thanks for backing me up there Faux, very nice, you turned the tables and with humor as well! That shot surely
backfired there hahaha  >:( >:( >:( >:(
however I think I can also stand up for myself too, I just hadn't read any of the
responses to my post yet.
So first of all, I asked for advice, not straight CRITICISM to my plans!
The problem I see with many people is they rush into giving advice without listening the whole story first.
Faux is right, I don't think anyone here is clairvoyant, and even if they said they were I would be highly skeptical
as most if not all of these people are HUGE FRAUDSTERS anyway.

Also my plan is not to go there and spend all day chasing tail going street pickup or day game, I'm an old PU veteran
and I prefer hunting sitting down like a lion. Of course, there is always, that one special lady that completely alters
your whole reality and makes you break your own rules.

I don't know how I "sound desperate" in any part of my post. If you actually read English you would see that, since
my original plans of meeting a specific lady there went south my
main objective now is TOURISM, not street pickup, not tinder, or the like. Those are things I can do if I want to,
and like one person also said, 1 week may not be enough to be able to pull in that country.
And even that is not the whole story! Truth is there is another interesting lady I am meeting in Kharkov and she is
really interested in meeting me in person. I talk to her over the phone and Telegram. So it's not like she was my Plan B
(that'd be an insult to her) I just took good advice before embarking
into this journey and was actually communicating with other 5 or 6 ladies at the same time lol, I couldn't just stop only for 1 girl!
Specially when it's international dating! Are you kidding me? So that's basically my secondary objective in all this.

Still, no matter what the "all wise" ML might say, no amount of posts or hours of lecture on Ukraine and the FSU
can replace the actual first hand visit to that country. I will certainly have a new worldview and I will have my
own interactions and experience, be them what you would call SUCCESS or FAILURE, but in the end they are
all Successes for the one who knows(Read Failing Forward by John C Maxwell if you don't know).

Who says you have to be a 10 to be with a 10?? That one of the most ridiculous advice I've heard on dating.
Actually most the guys I've seen with 10's are not male models or the like, most women don't fall for looks
and I've seen plenty of examples of this my entire life!

ALso, it is very true about email and the ways FSU ladies used to communicate with foreigners. With modern
technologies that  let you actually see your potential partner real time, one would be foolish or just plain
outdated not to use them. IM apps such as Telegram and Whatsapp are becoming the norm(although people are now
leaving whapp as well because of espionage) all which are tied to your current cell phone number and few
young women actually still "write letters". It's mostly very short messages that if you don't know how to play it
you will get ghosted pretty fast even if you managed to get her real number.
I'm communicating with another young girl from Belarus and she writes me just short messages on the email and I
mostly do chat with her.

And yes, *John Gaunts post does seem like reading the Old testament! LOL And this post as well, but  just
because I'm responding to most of the participants!

Lastly, you are a man of few words Patagonie! Thanks for visiting here  :welcome:

*Trenchcoat that is. But he is a nice guy , Ill read him when I have more time ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 01:12:53 AM by iloveukrayinkas »

Online Trenchcoat

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2021, 02:54:21 AM »
ILU, we can only go on the information you tell us at the time. We assume that is all the information to go on since you didn't tell us there was anymore. If you have other women to meet then go meet those other women. If you want to do tourism beforehand then that's your choice. Tourism in Ukraine is best in Kiev or possibly Lviv depending on taste to my knowledge. Odessa is ok but few other places are geared to tourism for foreigners that is. Not to say there isn't places to visit but often it's not that straight forward.

ML's comments weren't so much about having a dig in my view though they may seem that way to new members. What he says can be true if in a place by yourself there can be a lonely element to it but it is not so bad depending upon the person and mood. Some people can get very depressed in such a situation others can still go out learn, enjoy stuff, enjoy time away in another place even if a slightly lonely feeling. Anyway, I would say book yourself in a trip with the girls you want to meet and any other down time and go do it as soon as circumstances allow. Let us know how it goes :)
It's a Free Britain we have. We're never going back! :)

Offline Shadow

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2021, 03:22:31 AM »
As I mentioned tourism is a good idea, but if you have a prospect, drop the tourism.If you are going for one week, just let the meeting go as it goes. If there is no chemistry, tell her and see if he can still be your tour guide. If there is, get to know as much of her life as possible. The tourist traps will not disappear.
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Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2021, 03:15:37 PM »
I may be repeating what others have stated -
  • One week is not long enough for WNVM. If you have other reasons to travel that is fine, just don't expect anything compelling to happen.

One week is not optimal. I like ten day trips so that I can get two weekends
with boots on the ground getting a little more bang for my buck. Once a guy
makes his first trip he can start figuring out how things work and don't work
in the field.

This is why things almost never work out the first time.

I completely agree with setting goals, planning and preparation but nothing
is more valuable than experience.


"No plan of operations reaches with any certainty beyond the first encounter
with the enemy's main force."

Kriegsgechichtliche Einzelschriften (1880)


Once a guy gets a little bit of "combat experience" he can start
processing various strategies and tactics. Right now everything is theory
Everything we tell him when he gets back from his first trip will be easier for
him to process.

"Strategy is a system of expedients; it is more than a mere scholarly discipline.
It is the translation of knowledge to practical life, the improvement of the original
leading thought in accordance with continually changing situations."

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder 1870

« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 06:02:58 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline JohnDearGreen

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1st Time in Ukraine - Kyiv- Kharkiv and Odesa
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2021, 09:37:59 PM »

This is why things almost never work out the first time.
Usually due to unrealistic expectations.

I remember one guy here that like hiking and rock climbing.  He found a Russian lady online that
also liked that.  His first meetup worked out perfectly, it seemed.   No need to look any further.

At the other end of the spectrum is the guy that thinks Ms Right will magically pop up on the
street somewhere.  I would say this type has about a 2% chance of working out as well
as the above guy.
...

Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2021, 01:16:50 PM »
Usually due to unrealistic expectations.

American men who have never been to the FSU aren't very likely to have
realistic expectations or know how things work.

The OP is started talking about using PUA type moves which might have worked
some for him in the USA. What he doesn't realize is that 98% of FSU single men
over a certain age are already experienced PUA types and it will have upside down
and backwards results there compared to here.

A hunded years ago I had some friends who were a little better than mediocre basketball
players. They wanted me to join their team to play in a tournament that I had played
in before. I told them that they were going to be eaten alive because the competition
was far too good for them to compete with.

They had to go to the tournament, get destroyed and eliminated for them to understand.
I told them about a number of other tournaments that catered to B and C level players
and they joined a bunch of them and had a fantastic time at it, but they needed to get
their noses bloodied first before they would listen.   

Once the OP goes over there he will get some experience and then have a different
perspective than he does now. What works with single women in the USA and what
would work for a foreigner in the FSU are two totally different things.

Everybody knows a guy with an Aussie/English/New Zealand/French accent with very
average looks and capabilities might have some success with American woman because
he is a little bit different. That guy can still f#ck it up but he gets a foot in the door
because he is a little bit unique.

Americans have a chance in the FSU because they are perceived as being a little bit
different. He needs to work that unique perception bit rather than try to show that
he has the worst part of FSU men, but not as good at the language, or as young, fit
or as good looking.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 01:20:52 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2021, 01:37:24 PM »
So first of all, I asked for advice, not straight CRITICISM to my plans!

When you ask for free advice you will get all sorts of advice. Some of it will be excellent,
some of it good, some of it cryptic, some of it will be more dubious.

It's also somewhat common that the more experienced men who been successful and
have seen a dozen guys crash and burn spectacularly are less patient with newbies
and can occasionally come off as highly critical.

You will also get some crappy advice from guys who don't know what they are talking
about.  It's your job to sift though the advice and determine what is good and what is
not and above all not to get offended. Anybody who has ever had a Russian wife or
girl friend will tell you that you need to grow a fairly thick skin. 

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline cameraguymn

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« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2021, 01:22:47 AM »
you made a hard choice. i'm sure it was very hard. but moral.

I did NOT know she was married until she told me while in her underwear.
I stopped what was about to happen and got her out of my apartment.
She should have told me BEFORE taking most of her clothes off.
Tab A did not go into Slot B

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2021, 04:04:38 PM »
ILU, we can only go on the information you tell us at the time. We assume that is all the information to go on since you didn't tell us there was anymore. If you have other women to meet then go meet those other women. If you want to do tourism beforehand then that's your choice. Tourism in Ukraine is best in Kiev or possibly Lviv depending on taste to my knowledge. Odessa is ok but few other places are geared to tourism for foreigners that is. Not to say there isn't places to visit but often it's not that straight forward.

ML's comments weren't so much about having a dig in my view though they may seem that way to new members. What he says can be true if in a place by yourself there can be a lonely element to it but it is not so bad depending upon the person and mood. Some people can get very depressed in such a situation others can still go out learn, enjoy stuff, enjoy time away in another place even if a slightly lonely feeling. Anyway, I would say book yourself in a trip with the girls you want to meet and any other down time and go do it as soon as circumstances allow. Let us know how it goes :)

Regardless of what you say about MLM, he is definitely not a friend of mine or someone close so that he can be making those crass statements about a person who he know so little about. So joke's on HIM!

Other than that I can just tell you that such post you are suggesting would be a very long read which would get very few hits and which would only tire the reader. You can even see that on a long reply that you added on this post in which the person said that he wanted someone to condense it all so he could make sense of all that "blurb" as he calls it.

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2021, 04:15:19 PM »
Usually due to unrealistic expectations.

I remember one guy here that like hiking and rock climbing.  He found a Russian lady online that
also liked that.  His first meetup worked out perfectly, it seemed.   No need to look any further.

At the other end of the spectrum is the guy that thinks Ms Right will magically pop up on the
street somewhere.  I would say this type has about a 2% chance of working out as well
as the above guy.

I get what you say, Sometimes this doesn't even happen while living in a country for 6 months or even a year! In this case
I don't have the expectation that magic will happen and I'll find Ms Right with the first attempt. This is a recipe for
disappointment and may only lead to frustration. Perhaps once I'm back in my hometown I will have worked out a plan in my head
for when I get the chance to go back there. However, the important point is getting the gears  inside my head in motion so I can
figure out a solid strategy to find this person.

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2021, 04:24:08 PM »
American men who have never been to the FSU aren't very likely to have
realistic expectations or know how things work.

The OP is started talking about using PUA type moves which might have worked
some for him in the USA. What he doesn't realize is that 98% of FSU single men
over a certain age are already experienced PUA types and it will have upside down
and backwards results there compared to here.

A hunded years ago I had some friends who were a little better than mediocre basketball
players. They wanted me to join their team to play in a tournament that I had played
in before. I told them that they were going to be eaten alive because the competition
was far too good for them to compete with.

They had to go to the tournament, get destroyed and eliminated for them to understand.
I told them about a number of other tournaments that catered to B and C level players
and they joined a bunch of them and had a fantastic time at it, but they needed to get
their noses bloodied first before they would listen.   

Once the OP goes over there he will get some experience and then have a different
perspective than he does now. What works with single women in the USA and what
would work for a foreigner in the FSU are two totally different things.

Everybody knows a guy with an Aussie/English/New Zealand/French accent with very
average looks and capabilities might have some success with American woman because
he is a little bit different. That guy can still f#ck it up but he gets a foot in the door
because he is a little bit unique.

Americans have a chance in the FSU because they are perceived as being a little bit
different. He needs to work that unique perception bit rather than try to show that
he has the worst part of FSU men, but not as good at the language, or as young, fit
or as good looking.

You are a very wise and experienced man 2tallbill, I can see that in most of your responses
and posts. However, even if I try PU on the streets or someplace else where I'll be moving
and it gives little results you know I will still have more possibilities than using a PPL scam
website in which most women there are doing it for the money and the kickbacks they get.
I've heard many people say this same thing: "Get your ass on a F*$#@ plane and go meet
the real Ukraine" and not the fantasy they sell you on PPL and other marriage agencies(including
your untouchable elenasmodels!).
Now, when somebody comes and says, yeah, I'm gonna do just that! They throw mud at you
, criticize you and tell you that you are destined to FAIL anyway!
So in the end I've learned the hard way, I won't be able to please people no matter what I do.
I'll just enjoy the ride!

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2021, 04:41:46 PM »
Ok. Back to my train of thought.
At one point I had been afraid of having "too many leads" and the "immoral" part
of dating in which you have to game several women at the same time.
Now that I see the travel date is approaching more and more, I can say I am more
afraid of the opposite, having contacted a couple girls and not having one solid lead.
This is why I will pretty much throw all the meat to the grill contacting more and more
girls in this short interim as to even have to cancel
some dates and meetings.
I think this is the way to go. If I have to offend a couple women and not follow through
with them even when I promised seeing them on this trip I shall not falter.
Also, I am considering changing my return date to the USA and make it last at least
5 more days. So perhaps first I can take the first part of the trip mostly as tourism and
then focus on the girls I am interested in meeting.
Does anyone know the FEE for staying more time that what the visa was granted for?
Someone in my consulate stated it could be about $150, but didn't specify if it was for
the whole 5 days or for each.
So far I think I have a pretty good chance of at least getting a couple dates, otherwise
we also have a fall to plan with Ukraine Expert Patagonie who also has a really good dating
plan.
Cheers!

Offline Shadow

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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2021, 12:37:05 AM »
Question is what do you want out of this?If your plan is to return with a long term prospect, change direction.However if you wish to have met contacts that you can pursue further in short time, your idea is passable.However... what is the road plan for the future?Do you know when and how long you can make your next visit? If it is only after one year, expect any woman you have met on this trip to have disapeared.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Online 2tallbill

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« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2021, 06:57:53 AM »
Now, when somebody comes and says, yeah, I'm gonna do just that! They throw mud at you
, criticize you and tell you that you are destined to FAIL anyway!
So in the end I've learned the hard way, I won't be able to please people no matter what I do.
I'll just enjoy the ride!

Ignore the mud, go with your plan and update your tactics as you go.
You can learn a lot here, but you will learn even more with your boots
on the ground.

I had a room mate in college who took logic in College and got a D in
the class, so he took it better to improve his grade and got an F. He
would ask 50-60 girls for a date that he would confront just walking
around during the week, 58 out of 60 would say no, but he ALWAYS
had a hot date.

He met his wife chatting her up at the cash register at a store.
My Dad met my mom by jumping in the back seat of her car
when she stopped at a light. I met my first wife at a garage
sale.

There are hundred ways to be successful.

Ok. Back to my train of thought.
At one point I had been afraid of having "too many leads" and the "immoral" part
of dating in which you have to game several women at the same time.

You just need to be good at making decisions. I went on a trip to Voronezh to meet
one girl, it didn't work out with her so I went on several social networking and Local
Russian dating platforms and started asking girls out. On that trip, I never asked a
girl on a second date because I would decide that she didn't have the right combination of
IT factor, and chemistry.

Guys make the mistake in my opinion of asking a girl out a second time because
she is hot or because they have a time slot when they should just be moving on.
Guys also make a mistake in my opinion of continuing new dates AFTER finding
the best girl.

I kept doing the speed dating until I met Angel Eyes. I had a date set up with
another girl later on but I canceled it and pursued Angel Eyes exclusively.

Once you found a the girl with the IT factor and the chemistry go get her!


Now that I see the travel date is approaching more and more, I can say I am more
afraid of the opposite, having contacted a couple girls and not having one solid lead.

I found my girl years ago and my method of using social networking and dating sites
might be stale these days. Somebody like Pat who has recent experience surely knows
what resources to use now.

My theory of a visit many trip was to avoid the lengthy communication before meeting
because that's a visit one tactic. Once you've met a girl and you have mutual chemistry
then you can focus on her. You don't end up wasting times with girls that you don't have
chemistry with.



Also, I am considering changing my return date to the USA and make it last at least
5 more days. So perhaps first I can take the first part of the trip mostly as tourism and
then focus on the girls I am interested in meeting.

Does anyone know the FEE for staying more time that what the visa was granted for?
Someone in my consulate stated it could be about $150, but didn't specify if it was for
the whole 5 days or for each.
So far I think I have a pretty good chance of at least getting a couple dates, otherwise
we also have a fall to plan with Ukraine Expert Patagonie who also has a really good dating
plan.
Cheers!

If you are going to Russia apply for a multi visit/multi year visa. As an American I didn't need
a visa for Ukraine.

I have more thoughts but I've got to go save the world at work today.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 12:31:01 PM by AnonMod »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline iloveukrayinkas

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« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2021, 12:17:02 AM »

I found my girl years ago and my method of using social networking and dating sites
might be stale these days. Somebody like Pat who has recent experience surely knows
what resources to use now.

My theory of a visit many trip was to avoid the lengthy communication before meeting
because that's a visit one tactic. Once you've met a girl and you have mutual chemistry
then you can focus on her. You don't end up wasting times with girls that you don't have
chemistry with.



If you are going to Russia apply for a multi visit/multi year visa. As an American I didn't need
a visa for Ukraine.

I have more thoughts but I've got to go save the world at work today.

Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence!

Perhaps this is what happened to me and several other people had also told me it was not a good
time to go find a wife in UA or FSU because of the situation with the covid. This really messed the
majority of the peoples plans I believe, specially plans like meeting a wife abroad.

Still some other people on youtube and other places advise to have several women to whom you have
written letters or had communication for several months before your trip so that they can be
"more solid leads". I see this sounds great in theory but in practice I see that it is not a 100% reliable strategy
and these women may break at any moment. You might think that you won't find anyone if you just get
there and start meeting women when on the move, but that's actually the most NATURAL way of approaching
a woman and as humans we just acquired these new technologies which instead of making things easier, many
times complicate things more as with the case of all the scams going on on the Internet now.

Remember what I said about guys who were regretful of having visit one
tactics
as they saw other more beautiful and interesting girls out in the open when they actually got
there in Ukraine or Russia but felt tied up!
 
Chemistry is the other thing, as tallbill says, you may be writing lots by
text and when you actually meet her you see that there isn't much chemistry after all, like the guy
who ended his date early in order to get back with the waitress as there was the spark and he didn't have
too look much further.

I'm starting to watch Patagonie's youtube channel to catch all the tips and tricks that he offers but he does
have some extensive info about ukraine and with my daily work load it is hard to watch it all at once.
So Ill definitely look into that.

Your friend from College who studied logic reminds me of the story of the "Iranian from Hell", a story that
became popular in the Pickup Community of a man who never gave up after being blown off and still got
a hot girl and perhaps you can still find this online.

Also note, I'm not an American. I do need visa to enter ukraine. I do not need one to enter Russia.
Cheers Tall

Online Patagonie

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« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2021, 05:08:42 AM »
Ignore the mud, go with your plan and update your tactics as you go.
You can learn a lot here, but you will learn even more with your boots
on the ground. Just thank your lucky stars that Moby is currently banned.

I had a room mate in college who took logic in College and got a D in
the class, so he took it better to improve his grade and got an F. He
would ask 50-60 girls for a date that he would confront just walking
around during the week, 58 out of 60 would say no, but he ALWAYS
had a hot date.

He met his wife chatting her up at the cash register at a store.
My Dad met my mom by jumping in the back seat of her car
when she stopped at a light. I met my first wife at a garage
sale.

There are hundred ways to be successful.

You just need to be good at making decisions. I went on a trip to Voronezh to meet
one girl, it didn't work out with her so I went on several social networking and Local
Russian dating platforms and started asking girls out. On that trip, I never asked a
girl on a second date because I would decide that she didn't have the right combination of
IT factor, and chemistry.

Guys make the mistake in my opinion of asking a girl out a second time because
she is hot or because they have a time slot when they should just be moving on.
Guys also make a mistake in my opinion of continuing new dates AFTER finding
the best girl.

I kept doing the speed dating until I met Angel Eyes. I had a date set up with
another girl later on but I canceled it and pursued Angel Eyes exclusively.

Once you found a the girl with the IT factor and the chemistry go get her!


I found my girl years ago and my method of using social networking and dating sites
might be stale these days. Somebody like Pat who has recent experience surely knows
what resources to use now.

My theory of a visit many trip was to avoid the lengthy communication before meeting
because that's a visit one tactic. Once you've met a girl and you have mutual chemistry
then you can focus on her. You don't end up wasting times with girls that you don't have
chemistry with.



If you are going to Russia apply for a multi visit/multi year visa. As an American I didn't need
a visa for Ukraine.

I have more thoughts but I've got to go save the world at work today.
 

Excellent post, newbies there is a lot to think about here... read and reread.
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

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« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2021, 05:22:12 AM »
Post from
 iloveukrayinkas________________________________________________________________________________
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence! Good advice but it's not only about burning all leads, it's also about not burning YOUR emotional fund which is necessary limited for many western men

Perhaps this is what happened to me and several other people had also told me it was not a good
time to go find a wife in UA or FSU because of the situation with the covid. This really messed the
majority of the peoples plans I believe, specially plans like meeting a wife abroad.

Still some other people on youtube and other places advise to have several women to whom you have
written letters or had communication for several months before your trip so that they can be
"more solid leads". I see this sounds great in theory but in practice I see that it is not a 100% reliable strategyThey are mostly wrong, the world has become about instant satisfaction due to the internet globalization and fast delivery services

and these women may break at any moment Because of this new world the real guys who show have an outstanding advantage. You might think that you won't find anyone if you just get
there and start meeting women when on the move, but that's actually the most NATURAL way of approaching
a woman and as humans we just acquired these new technologies which instead of making things easier, many
times complicate things more as with the case of all the scams going on on the Internet now.

Remember what I said about guys who were regretful of having visit one
tactics
as they saw other more beautiful and interesting girls out in the open when they actually got
there in Ukraine or Russia but felt tied up!
 
Chemistry is the other thing, as tallbill says, you may be writing lots by
text and when you actually meet her you see that there isn't much chemistry after all, like the guy
who ended his date early in order to get back with the waitress as there was the spark and he didn't have
too look much further.

I'm starting to watch Patagonie's youtube channel to catch all the tips and tricks that he offers but he does
have some extensive info about ukraine and with my daily work load it is hard to watch it all at once.
So Ill definitely look into that. Thank

Your friend from College who studied logic reminds me of the story of the "Iranian from Hell", a story that
became popular in the Pickup Community of a man who never gave up after being blown off and still got
a hot girl and perhaps you can still find this online.

Also note, I'm not an American. I do need visa to enter ukraine. I do not need one to enter Russia.
Cheers Tall
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline ML

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« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2021, 08:32:41 AM »
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence!

This is exactly the time frame laid out in the methodology at:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
Winston Churchill.  “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

Online Trenchcoat

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« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2021, 12:18:57 PM »
Nice man! That reply was a huge eye opener! I agree with what you say.
Perhaps I made the mistake of using the visit one tactic instead of doing what my friend
David Murphey says, that he starts chatting or corresponding with women just a few weeks before
his flight to UA so that he doesn't burn out his leads as many things can happen during a long
drawn correspondence!

Perhaps this is what happened to me and several other people had also told me it was not a good
time to go find a wife in UA or FSU because of the situation with the covid. This really messed the
majority of the peoples plans I believe, specially plans like meeting a wife abroad.

Still some other people on youtube and other places advise to have several women to whom you have
written letters or had communication for several months before your trip so that they can be
"more solid leads". I see this sounds great in theory but in practice I see that it is not a 100% reliable strategy
and these women may break at any moment. You might think that you won't find anyone if you just get
there and start meeting women when on the move, but that's actually the most NATURAL way of approaching
a woman and as humans we just acquired these new technologies which instead of making things easier, many
times complicate things more as with the case of all the scams going on on the Internet now.

Remember what I said about guys who were regretful of having visit one
tactics
as they saw other more beautiful and interesting girls out in the open when they actually got
there in Ukraine or Russia but felt tied up!
 
Chemistry is the other thing, as tallbill says, you may be writing lots by
text and when you actually meet her you see that there isn't much chemistry after all, like the guy
who ended his date early in order to get back with the waitress as there was the spark and he didn't have
too look much further.

I'm starting to watch Patagonie's youtube channel to catch all the tips and tricks that he offers but he does
have some extensive info about ukraine and with my daily work load it is hard to watch it all at once.
So Ill definitely look into that.

Your friend from College who studied logic reminds me of the story of the "Iranian from Hell", a story that
became popular in the Pickup Community of a man who never gave up after being blown off and still got
a hot girl and perhaps you can still find this online.

Also note, I'm not an American. I do need visa to enter ukraine. I do not need one to enter Russia.
Cheers Tall

ILU, you have about up to two weeks from start of correspondence to announcing to a girl that you'll visit for her to be content with just a meet. Much more than that and FSW tend to feel that you are there to see her for several days. It's weird but they do. Nothing to say you can't go there and blow her off if no chemistry or better still as Shadow suggested be upfront and admit there is none. That's way better than trying to make it work and most Ukrainian girls are socialable enough that they will happily go around with you as a friend, all you may have to do is pay for the odd meal and cheap attraction expense, hey a cheap translator and go between straight off the bat! :D

Remember although all Ukrainian girls will have learnt English at school not all will be good at it, some will know hardly any and will have struggled at learning it. I've met them, they tend to improve over time a bit when around you and having to use it but that takes at least days. The first girl I met in Kiev, Ukraine was pretty perfect in English she could have easily been a good two, she had studied it as part of her degree at Uni, not all girls will have done, many perhaps most won't. So many of the girl's you hit on depending on the place may know little to no English, it's not little England out there. So a girl with you that you've attached yourself in such a manner could be indespensable. Online translation tools on your phone are ok but they are not easy to have a flowing conversation with and can get irritating for the girl fairly quickly. I kind of got to thinking that they don't look good for the guy also, kind of looks a bit weak I think like you're relying on it like a disability aid.

Anyway, I kind of agree with Bill if you want to try PUA then the experience of finding out what it's really like isn't bad to have. As I've said to you I went out there in 2019 with that thought to Kiev but found it less than ideal. I was early forties at the time so the idea of going up to uni girls was really a no-goer, I passed by many but they showed no interest. Older girls going to & from work were pre occupied with that and seemed switched off to approach it even eye contact. In addition Kiev is quite well off in the city centre so looking the business as far as impression is concerned is going to be a bid deal to stand any chance. If you're looking for eye contact while it could happen anywhere you're probably better off somewhere slower paced like one of the smaller provincial towns. To be honest though while I've been getting out less because if the virus I find less girl's eye me up than used too, not that loads did before but with age I think that happens. Even in the past it was kind of sporadic.

Main thing is girls can have their own agenda whether corresponding with them or hitting on them. Some for example may correspond with you as they are bored and want some fun but may not really want to go off with a foreigner. Some girls that eye you up might just be found so to make another guy jealous. It can vary a lot, I wouldn't write PUA off but you could for example go the whole trip without getting eyed up by anyone. I personally got fed up after the first girl I met of the idea of starting over with writing to another girl to find out how her cat was, what colour was her favourite, etc, etc. So yes other methods that bring up girls are worth a try as of course chemistry is often only found out when the eyes meet.
It's a Free Britain we have. We're never going back! :)

Offline cameraguymn

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« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2021, 08:58:21 PM »
Pardon my ignorance but what is PUA?

Offline Grumpy

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« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2021, 09:31:02 PM »
Pardon my ignorance but what is PUA?

Pick-up artist, sometimes called day game or street pick-up.
Good women are not cheap
Cheap women are not good
(but they can be a lot of fun)

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« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2021, 02:17:39 PM »
Pardon my ignorance but what is PUA?

Here is a over simplified Cliff Notes version.
It's a philosophy about hitting on Single Women using tactics that "Bad Boys"
use.

The problem with using that in Russia is that 80% of the single Russian men
over a certain age use Bad Boy tactics and know the local language and culture.
The other 19.9841% are dead, in jail, in a relationship or otherwise encumbered.

My advice in the FSU is not to use the PUA tactics but to use the
"Aussie Accent/I'm very unique method instead". There is a perception that
Western men will treat them better, so don't dispel them of that notion the first
chance you get because, that's one of the things they like about you. That's what
makes you different than their local options.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2021, 02:29:11 PM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.

Offline cameraguymn

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« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2021, 01:15:19 AM »
@iloveukrayinkas

Hey are you still planning to go to Ukraine? Looks like Kiev is in lock down. Bummer. I don't want to expose my lady to any unnecessary risk but we've been looking forward to meeting in spring. I want to go in May but might have to wait and see how things develop.

I think if I were younger I could do the PUA method but now I may just look like a creepy older man. In my younger days the old asking for directions worked like a charm in every country.

 

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