The Eligible-Bachelor Paradox

[2tallbill]

Isn't that the point of this thread in the article you posted?

No, it was to generate discussion and debate.

I don't look for a scammer in every exchange.

True, you don't go into scammer protection mode. I was using that as an example of
thinking that will cause a person to fail and I think that you probably agree with me
on that.

My point was this: Going into situations with a poor attitude and outlook will cause the
same result as the looking for a scammer everywhere you look.

I would be using dating methods suggested if I could easily get over there.

Don't make up things and add or subtract from what I say. You are projecting your ideas
and theories to what I did not say or do. I did not suggest or provide advice on dating
methods.

I gave out advice on screening methods, sifting methods, selection methods, communication
methods etc. If you want dating advice, I can give it, but I didn't give it. You ignore my advice
and substitute your theories in their place.

to avoid quarantine on return.

Your government will quarantine vaccinated citizens?

[ML]

If you look for a scammer in every exchange you will find one.

I have never quite understood the logic behind this 'old saw' that is used in many settings, not just this venture.

But in the specific case here: 

If you look for a scammer in every exchange, and one of the gals you get involved with is really a completely honest gal, you will find her to be a scammer ?

[John Gaunt]

John, I know there are probably many test locations, but if you don't mind post here or in PM to me the name, location and any info for your test site.  Thanks

Here’s the link to the website.
Дила

It’s just off Volodomyrska Street near the Yaroslav monument. It’s around the corner for me from Blv T  Shevchenko so very convenient.

There are other places where the pcr test is a few hundred grivnas cheaper but I couldn’t fault the service at the clinic. It was very clean, you book a test 24 hrs before. Once there I was in and out in less than 5 mins.

Thoroughly recommend it.

[John Gaunt]

I have never quite understood the logic behind this 'old saw' that is used in many settings, not just this venture.

But in the specific case here: 

If you look for a scammer in every exchange, and one of the gals you get involved with is really a completely honest gal, you will find her to be a scammer ?

I think what Bill means is that if you are so suspicious of people than no matter what, you will find something to label a girl a scammer.
In Trenchies world he is so scared of being taken for a ride that every girl is a potential scammer.

[Trenchcoat]

I think what Bill means is that if you are so suspicious of people than no matter what, you will find something to label a girl a scammer.
In Trenchies world he is so scared of being taken for a ride that every girl is a potential scammer.

Near enough, I see it as an honest girl being seen as a scammer in the mind of someone who views almost anything a girl says as not to be trusted. So that they don't end up trusting them even when they have really been no overt obvious scam signs. Hence you end up finding a scammer in every girl you interact with as you are finding what you have already decided in your mind that you expect to find even if it's a subconscious thought.

Despite what 2tall bill thinks I don't think of FSW/Ukrainian women in that way. Admittedly early on in my search I was a little on edge as I was unaware of what the culture and dating conventions were out there, what a guy should & shouldn't be expected to pay for, for example. I was aware that scams took place and some obvious ones but I didn't know the line at which it begun and end. Which point reasonable requests for the guy to meet the costs in dating took over, etc. I was also not aware of what this all meant in the minds of a FSW whether she is being honest, likes you, how she views you, etc.

That I all know now and I have not made any statement of distrusting a FSW in recent years, at least not with good merit behind it and not frequently. I don't see every FSW as a scammer far from it, but I now know a lot more about the dating culture in the FSU and how things work. Just as in dating in the west there are pitfalls of better dating in the FSU and so it's a case of being mindful of these but not seeing every girl as suffering from these without merit. The impression I get from Bill is that he gives me the impression that he thinks I'm the same as when I started this search, not at all I would say, I have learnt a lot along the way I may not be foolproof but I know a lot more now and can probably date better as a result when I get out there, hopefully soon.

[2tallbill]

I have never quite understood the logic behind this 'old saw' that is used in many settings, not just this venture.

But in the specific case here: 

If you look for a scammer in every exchange, and one of the gals you get involved with is really a completely honest gal, you will find her to be a scammer ?

If you treat a good girl FSUW like she is a scammer she will get pissed off and leave. 
If the good girls leave what is left?

[2tallbill]

Despite what 2tall bill thinks I don't think of FSW/Ukrainian women in that way.

The impression I get from Bill is that he gives me the impression that he thinks I'm the
same as when I started this search, not at all I would say, I have learnt a lot along the
way I may not be foolproof but I know a lot more now and can probably date better
as a result when I get out there, hopefully soon.

You post all sorts of stuff about both FSUW and Western women. Most of it is negative.
Having a negative attitude about women is not the best way to catch one.

[Trenchcoat]

You post all sorts of stuff about both FSUW and Western women. Most of it is negative.
Having a negative attitude about women is not the best way to catch one.

If there is negative stuff around then there is no point being blind to it. There are both western women and FSW that want stuff out if a relationship other than a relationship. I don't think there are many men that do. I'm sure finding a relationship with a woman that wants just that is great but us men need to be aware that the dating world is not a bed of roses for us.

Krimster took the view that he would rather reject all the love and romance stuff and just accept that many FSW want a relationship based if the guy providing well and the woman doing the domestic or however she wished to fit in. He knew that many FSW don't really care about the guy it was more a practical deal they wished to strike for mutual benefit. Nano (Russian woman in her mid to late 40s) for the brief time that she was on this forum just mainly wanted a relationship so that a guy would provide for her in old age. She had been looking for a guy abroad unsuccessfully to fill that role.

So there are FSW who just want to reach a deal in getting with a WM that local men probably can't do it don't wish to. That is the traditional set up we used to have in the west, the guy goes out to work & brings home the money, the woman does the domestic stuff. Under that system I think it is highly likely that many got together for practicality/functionality rather than love. There was no microwave and most guys would struggle with domestic stuff, the woman would be paid less and so it pushed people together who otherwise wouldn't have.

Nothing of this is negative it's just being a realist that there are issues out there and for some people they may not wish to be involved with certain issues and the may see those issues negatively. I don't see those issues negatively I just see them as issues, they only become negative if not aware and walk right into a situation where you (the guy) don't know what you're signing up to or how to play the game.

Krimster knew as long as he kept up his end of the bargain and brought good money in his wife would stay as that is what she wanted out of the deal. Krimster didn't believe in love/romance he just wanted a wife he could get on with, be aware of the terms they were in it for and enjoy a family and a woman who was apparently well endowed. It worked for him but for another guy who wants the woman to care for him/love him to find out that the woman just wants a provider and has decided to leave him as he is no longer fulfilling that role sufficiently could be a big shocker, he may have well thought they got together for love. Most FSW will play along in a loving way even if they only love the aspect about the guy is that he can provide well.

So when I point these things out I am not being negative it's just an aspect, it's only negative if the guy doesn't wish for it and let's face it many guys won't wish for a girl who only wants them for money, but as pointed out some guys are realists, they know wealth is their only positive aspect and they just want a family children so being up front in on practical rather than romantic terms may be a situation that is more reassuring for them as they know where they stand. Some guys have little idea for romance, nor wish for it, they just want a family and that probably includes many FSM.

[2tallbill]

If there is negative stuff around then there is no point being blind to it.

There are women who would sell both of your kidneys for a new set of boots.
There are women who kill their children, there are women who are evil. There
are women who are complete nutjobs. The FSU is full of very bad, scary women.

If you dwell on negative crap, (which you do) then you are going to have difficulty
finding a good girl. At least half of my posts are about finding a good girl. That's
what you want.

Half your posts are about stupid meaningless crap. If you find a good girl then 95%
of your posts are about crap. 

I am telling you that you need to get your head out of the garbage dumpster and
start looking for an Angel. Angels steer away from garbage.
Start now, start today.

[2tallbill]

This looks like another Trench thread

Krimster took the view that he would rather

You mischaracterize Krimster's views even worse than you mischaracterize mine.
You can't imitate what Krimster can do any more than you could mimic basketball
like Michael Jordan did. Try to come up with a plan that is within your capabilities.

Trench for you the solution is to change your thinking and your approach or to fail.
I failed several times for several reasons but I never screwed up the same thing
twice. I changed what I did and how I did it, fine tuning it better and better.

[Boethius]

If there is negative stuff around then there is no point being blind to it. There are both western women and FSW that want stuff out if a relationship other than a relationship. I don't think there are many men that do. I'm sure finding a relationship with a woman that wants just that is great but us men need to be aware that the dating world is not a bed of roses for us.

Of all the inane things you have written here over the years, this one must be near the top.  For every insincere woman, there exists an insincere man.  For every woman that wants "stuff" other than a relationship, there is a man who wants something other than a relationship.  There is zero difference.

Krimster took the view that he would rather reject all the love and romance stuff and just accept that many FSW want a relationship based if the guy providing well and the woman doing the domestic or however she wished to fit in. He knew that many FSW don't really care about the guy it was more a practical deal they wished to strike for mutual benefit. Nano (Russian woman in her mid to late 40s) for the brief time that she was on this forum just mainly wanted a relationship so that a guy would provide for her in old age. She had been looking for a guy abroad unsuccessfully to fill that role.

nano wanted a husband because she didn't want to grow old alone.  That is a common human condition.  It had zero to do with money.  krimster, with his limitations, didn't understand that about nano, nor about women in general. 

[Davo]

Trench, your mate was one of the biggest bullshit artist I’ve ever met..... The smart phone saga (invented to impress you), the modified flare gun to shoot shot gun shells, the stolen man hole cover armour plating, the attempted hit and wounding of his wife, the hot Chinese chemist employed to work in his Russian dark net drug empire, being a made man by the Russian mafia etc... etc... etc...

If you believe one thing that he wrote then yes you should be worried about scammers, because you’re as gullible as they come.....Only a preteen school boy would be impressed by his fairy stories.

[ML]

Trench, your mate was one of the biggest bullshit artist I’ve ever met..... The smart phone saga (invented to impress you), the modified flare gun to shoot shot gun shells, the stolen man hole cover armour plating, the attempted hit and wounding of his wife, the hot Chinese chemist employed to work in his Russian dark net drug empire, being a made man by the Russian mafia etc... etc... etc...

Quite a compendium you wrote here.  I had not remembered all of them.

But Krimster did know his metal detector stuff.  He recommended one to me; and I was very happy with it.

[Trenchcoat]

nano wanted a husband because she didn't want to grow old alone.  That is a common human condition.  It had zero to do with money.  krimster, with his limitations, didn't understand that about nano, nor about women in general.

Nano wanted a pension plan as in Russia you live very poorly in old age if just relying on the state pension, Ukraine too of course. Nano made it very clear that she just wanted a guy to provide for her. When I've got the time I will look up her actual words she wrote here and restate them here for the record.

[John Gaunt]

Nano wanted a pension plan as in Russia you live very poorly in old age if just relying on the state pension, Ukraine too of course. Nano made it very clear that she just wanted a guy to provide for her. When I've got the time I will look up her actual words she wrote here and restate them here for the record.

Trench, the state pension in the UK is barely enough to survive on so if you’re dependent solely on that, your life is going to be pretty miserable. It’s poverty line living. That’s what you’ve got in store as well.

[Trenchcoat]

Trench, the state pension in the UK is barely enough to survive on so if you’re dependent solely on that, your life is going to be pretty miserable. It’s poverty line living. That’s what you’ve got in store as well.

Looked up my current state pension forecast the other day in fact. Full state pension currently forecast to be around £178 a week upon retirement/equivalent by the time I get there. I can live like an Oligarch out in Ukraine on that sort of money JG

[John Gaunt]

Looked up my current state pension forecast the other day in fact. Full state pension currently forecast to be around £178 a week upon retirement/equivalent by the time I get there. I can live like an Oligarch out in Ukraine on that sort of money JG

Yes, I can just imagine you living out your days in Ukraine.
What do you think the cost of living is likely to be in 30 years time?
You will be living waaaay below the poverty line, even in Ukraine.
You’ll have to live in a big city cos you’ll never make it living anywhere else in Ukraine and for that you’ll need a lot more than £178 a week.

I spent €600 in a week in Kyiv, not counting the apartment cost, and that wasn’t doing anything special, just a few meals out and some bits and bobs.

Big city cost of living is approaching European levels, Trench.

Still living in cloud cuckoo land, Trench?
How’s that taking in lodgers plan of yours going?
Any big bucks rolling in yet?

[ML]

Looked up my current state pension forecast the other day in fact. Full state pension currently forecast to be around £178 a week upon retirement/equivalent by the time I get there. I can live like an Oligarch out in Ukraine on that sort of money JG

Will UK health insurance plan cover medical care in Ukraine ?

In USA, our Medicare plan during retirement won't pay for any costs outside of USA.

So EVENTUALLY all USA folks will return to USA in old age . . . and most will live in poverty, despite having lived fairly well (economically speaking) in a foreign country.

Not a pleasant scenario to look forward to . . . which is probably why most ignore thinking ahead about
 it, like many here on this board.

[John Gaunt]

Will UK health insurance plan cover medical care in Ukraine ?

In USA, our Medicare plan during retirement won't pay for any costs outside of USA.

So EVENTUALLY all USA folks will return to USA in old age . . . and most will live in poverty, despite having lived fairly well (economically speaking) in a foreign country.

Not a pleasant scenario to look forward to . . . which is probably why most ignore thinking ahead about
 it, like many here on this board.

The UK has reciprocal medical treatment agreements with some countries but  they only apply for visitors. If you’re living in those countries private medical insurance will be needed.
Ukraine is not one of those countries so even emergency treatment is not accessible freely.

Trench belongs to a parasitic subset of people in the UK who never pay into the system but expect to benefit from all the handouts that the system provides, like the state pension, healthcare etc. Yet he complains about council estate girls having babies and jumping the housing queues.
There’s too many like him in the UK now, expecting everything for nothing, that’s why I support a remodeled system, with private healthcare, so chancers like him don’t benefit from the hard graft of people like me.

[Trenchcoat]

Will UK health insurance plan cover medical care in Ukraine ?

In USA, our Medicare plan during retirement won't pay for any costs outside of USA.

So EVENTUALLY all USA folks will return to USA in old age . . . and most will live in poverty, despite having lived fairly well (economically speaking) in a foreign country.

Not a pleasant scenario to look forward to . . . which is probably why most ignore thinking ahead about
 it, like many here on this board.

For medical problems it would be a case of fly back to the UK to get it done on the NHS for free. Hence would need to keep UK nationality. The only medical cover that exists for UK citizens abroad is the UK's 'Global Health Insurance Card'. The GHIC came in this year to replace the 'European Health Insurance Card', EHIC. As far as I know at the moment the GHIC only covers the same European countries the EHIC covers but I think over time the idea is for it to cover more countries than the EHIC. It's a reciprocal arrangement can means cardholders can access emergency care in foreign countries when abroad and a few other aspects. It doesn't cover private hospital treatment, medical tourism, specialist surgery other than what is immediately needed or elective surgery.

A place like Ukraine might be suitable for the scheme as it is mainly a state run health service there like the UK's NHS so would fit in quite easily. Could be more to it than that of course band I'm not sure how many Ukrainians get to go to the UK but that said health care costs are probably cheaper in Ukraine, Ukraine is not a member at present of course.

Medical insurance in Ukraine would probably be wise either way with a few hundred ghrivna to use in the hospitals there just in case. So overall as long as a but careful health cover shouldn't be much if a problem I would have thought.

[Trenchcoat]

The UK has reciprocal medical treatment agreements with some countries but  they only apply for visitors. If you’re living in those countries private medical insurance will be needed.
Ukraine is not one of those countries so even emergency treatment is not accessible freely.

Trench belongs to a parasitic subset of people in the UK who never pay into the system but expect to benefit from all the handouts that the system provides, like the state pension, healthcare etc. Yet he complains about council estate girls having babies and jumping the housing queues.
There’s too many like him in the UK now, expecting everything for nothing, that’s why I support a remodeled system, with private healthcare, so chancers like him don’t benefit from the hard graft of people like me.

LOL 

[ML]

For medical problems it would be a case of fly back to the UK to get it done on the NHS for free.

The idea that one could fly back to a home country for medical treatment is silly at best.

For heart attacks, strokes, etc . . . probably fairly hard to get on planes !!!!

What about travelling with a broken leg?

How long will appendicitis wait before rupture ?

And regardless of how 'cheap' one thinks medical care might be in a 'less developed' country, actual 'good care' will be too expensive for those with little money.

Medical insurance plans wouldn't be cheap for 'good' plans in such countries and 'all' insurance plans in such countries are dicey at best.

[2tallbill]

Of all the inane things you have written here over the years, this one must be near the top.  For every insincere woman, there exists an insincere man.  For every woman that wants "stuff" other than a relationship, there is a man who wants something other than a relationship.  There is zero difference.

A good girl wants L-O-V-E !

Angel Eyes moved to live with me in Western North Dakota, possibly the worst
and most miserable place to live in the USA.

There are three seasons in North Dakota: Ice, mud and dust. 
She got love and she thrived.

[2tallbill]

Only a preteen school boy would be impressed

Occasionally he would write something so funny that I choked on my own spit.

Krimster had gold nuggets in his advice, you had to look for them and know them
when you saw them. Trench always, always, A-L-W-A-Y-S focused on the wrong thing.

[Trenchcoat]

The idea that one could fly back to a home country for medical treatment is silly at best.

For heart attacks, strokes, etc . . . probably fairly hard to get on planes !!!!

What about travelling with a broken leg?

How long will appendicitis wait before rupture ?

And regardless of how 'cheap' one thinks medical care might be in a 'less developed' country, actual 'good care' will be too expensive for those with little money.

Medical insurance plans wouldn't be cheap for 'good' plans in such countries and 'all' insurance plans in such countries are dicey at best.

Try to use some ingenuity in your thinking ML

For sure some stuff wouldn't work but other stuff would, at a three hour flight away it's makes it a goer for some stuff.

So we're not talking a perfect world here but one in which there may be options. In general course of action might depend a little on how healthy a person usually is. Stuff out of the blue can happen but I think in general some health insurance to pay for any real urgent issue will do.

If a guy is real geriatric and getting health issues every other week that's another issue.

Only other thing to do is life near the Ukrainian/EU border to hop over there and claim under the GHIC should anything happen