Afghanistan

[fathertime]

Next stop for the Taliban could be Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons [tell that one to fathertime] Or maybe Iraq first....maybe

Thanks for the mention!   This type of fear mongering can keep us in foreign wars and occupying nations forever.    I don't think the natives appreciate us being there very much, and I see it as a driving force for them to weaponize themselves as best they can.  In the case of Afghanistan, the war drained US coffers to the tune of trillions.  Not to mention wasted manpower.  Imagine all the good the young men/women could have been doing inside of the US border. 

Fathertime! 

[2tallbill]

After claiming that they didn't know how many Americans are in
Afghanistan, Team Biden gave the Taliban a list of names of all
Americans in Afghanistan

From Politico
U.S. officials provided Taliban with names of Americans
The decision to provide specific names to the Taliban, which has a history of brutally murdering Afghans who collaborated with the U.S. and other coalition forces during the conflict, has angered lawmakers and military officials.
http://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/26/us-officials-provided-taliban-with-names-of-americans-afghan-allies-to-evacuate-506957


From CNN
The latest on the Kabul airport attack
Thirteen US service members were killed and 18 were injured in an attack at Kabul's airport
More than 90 Afghans are dead and at least 150 wounded
http://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/afghanistan-kabul-taliban-us-news-08-27-21/h_be8fa0445684f14f51d381b29151172b


From NPR
Gen. Jim Jones, who served as national security adviser under President Barack Obama.
"Jones says this withdrawal seems to have taken place in reverse."

"When you do these kinds of things, however big or however small they are, the first thing
you do is you get the civilians and families out, then you get the U.S. government personnel
out if that's required. And then the last people to leave is generally the military who are
providing the security for the orderly evacuation," Jones said. "It appears to me that we
did this exactly backwards and I don't know why."

"Another veteran of the Obama administration, Leon Panetta, former director of the CIA and
secretary of defense, has compared the withdrawal to the "Bay of Pigs" — the botched
1961 invasion of Cuba under President John F. Kennedy."
http://www.npr.org/2021/08/23/1029851226/what-the-exit-from-afghanistan-tells-us-about-how-biden-sees-the-world

[Gator]

Next stop for the Taliban could be Pakistan. Pakistan has nuclear weapons [tell that one to fathertime] Or maybe Iraq first....maybe

Much of Taliban came from Pakistan. 

The Pakistan ISI has long supported the Taliban.  Maybe Pakistan does this so the Taliban focuses on Afghanistan, and not Pakistan.

[Gator]

I'm not that well-informed, even ignorant of many aspects and relationships involved, but do see the possibility of constructive dialogue and opportunities. Let's say I hope for the best, instead of dwelling on the worst that could happen.

Such a mentality prompted our policy makers to stay in Afghanistan for 20 years after our military working with warlords evicted al qaeda.

"Constructive dialogue" and "religious fanaticism" are mutually exclusive when making long term policies.   

The US is getting out of Afghanistan, and that is the correct decision.  Leave the Middle East alone.  Let them focus on killing each other as they have done for a thousand years.  We played a heavy hand only because we needed the oil.  We do not need the oil. 
 

[Gator]

Stepping back a bit and just looking at the sheer numbers of those evacuated, 100 thousand plus thus far, I'd say quite an achievement.  American citizens and military/contractor personnel are only a small portion of that number.  With a few days to go, what are we looking at, 130 thousand, maybe more?  Where do we draw the line? 

These numbers speak volumes.   Even though many more than 100,000 Afghani would get on a plane and relocate to the West, the total number is still insignificant compared to the national population of 40 million.   

LITMUS TEST:  there are no news videos of multitudes of Afghani refugees escaping  their country and crossing into the sanctuary of Iran and the surrounding "Stans." 

In summary, the Afghani people are accepting the Taliban.  Maybe it is in their hearts or maybe it is the lesser of two evils.   Whatever the reason, the religious ideology embraced by the Taliban prevailed over the ways of a Western looking life.  And it always will for a long time to come.  The Western trained and organized  Afghan national army chose not to stand and fight raiders of a kindred spirit.

Let's get out and lick our wounds.   Maybe in the future drop some bombs and fire some missiles on enemies of our homeland.

[BC]

Such a mentality prompted our policy makers to stay in Afghanistan for 20 years after our military working with warlords evicted al qaeda.

IIRC CIA etc?  Seems more enemies than friends were made after all.

"Constructive dialogue" and "religious fanaticism" are mutually exclusive when making long term policies.   

Generally, I have no qualms with how a country is run or what religion practiced - as long as folks are free to travel outside their borders, i.e. Soviet Union East Germany.  I've heard the Taliban will not restrict travels, but we'll have to see how that works out some time down the road.

The US is getting out of Afghanistan, and that is the correct decision.  Leave the Middle East alone.  Let them focus on killing each other as they have done for a thousand years.  We played a heavy hand only because we needed the oil.  We do not need the oil.

Yes, there were always ulterior motives, it seems.  Invading Iraq was supposed to cost between 20-50 Billion and be reimbursed by oil sales, aside from feeding the military manufacturing and DOD contracting sectors.

[BC]

In summary, the Afghani people are accepting the Taliban.  Maybe it is in their hearts or maybe it is the lesser of two evils.   Whatever the reason, the religious ideology embraced by the Taliban prevailed over the ways of a Western looking life.  And it always will for a long time to come.  The Western trained and organized  Afghan national army chose not to stand and fight raiders of a kindred spirit.

Let's get out and lick our wounds.   Maybe in the future drop some bombs and fire some missiles on enemies of our homeland.

Can't fault your logic on this Gator.  The NYT commentary by an Afghan general Trenchcoat posted a bit back was very interesting.  If you have problems accessing it, I'd be happy to share a link with you.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=25305.msg558635#msg558635

[2tallbill]

With a few days to go, what are we looking at, 130 thousand, maybe more?  Where do we draw the line? 

100% of American's was always the line.

We can leave the Afghani's there, or leave them in a Muslim country. They are loyal
only while getting paid. We could be inviting jihad into the USA. Those 100K Afghani's
will be bringing in every relative for generations. The USA is trying to become the worst
part of Europe every time a Democrat is in office.

I'd say quite an achievement.

Of course you would. You have been saying whatever Team Biden says.

Much will depend on the Taliban upholding their end of any agreements made. 
Thus far, I see no great effort on the part of the Taliban to overtly and forcefully
hinder the evacuation, but they have to draw the line as well.

Then you are in denial, the Afghani's built a ring around the airport so that
they could bottleneck the process and to shake down anybody for bribes.
How could you pretend that it's any other thing?

The Taliban won't hold their end on ANY agreements made. They only do
so when they are in fear or when money is to be made.

Let's say I hope for the best, instead of dwelling on the worst that could happen.

It's probably best for everyone to keep positive.

[GQBlues]

Look at much of Trump's presidency...rather chaotic.

Chaotic because Trump represented someone who not only challenged the Washington status quo, he didn't care who he bulldozed out of the way to get his agenda done. I listened to Tulsi Gabbarb's interview not too long ago where she admitted how so many of the house Democrats were urging her to not sign the criminal reform law Trump administration had been working for the simple reason they (Dems) didn't want Trump to achieved anything during his presidency. Tulsi was the moderate Democrat that was once a presidential candidate, which the DNC considered hostile to their cause and labeled her, via Hillary, a Russian agent. These idiots (Dems) are suppose to be our public servants.

If there was 'chaos' during Trump's presidency, it mostly wasn't because of Trump.

   Who knows how our departure in Afghanistan would have went under trump, but I can see type of thing happening regardless of who was president.

I agree. Biden was left holding the bag from the actions of the 3 presidents before him. While I strongly support Trump's 'America First' initiative to get us out of all these silly wars, his vindictive actions post-election soured my opinion of him as a POTUS.

Trump has the priviledge of watching Biden take the hits because he is currently in office.  Trump could have chosen to support biden, as biden has followed through with trump's earlier moves in Afghanistan. 

Fathertime!

Trump's ego couldn't be tempered knowing Biden is about to accomplish what he strived so hard to do but couldn't. In the end, like Bush and Obama before him, he didn't have the political cojones to face the scrutiny of all possible consequences of a withdrawal, not least of which, face the political ire of own military complex.

Trump, unfortunately, turned into a caricature of someone so distraught of losing the opportunity to finish what he started and aimed to do, so he instead is now trumpeting silly remarks about the current crisis. Trump should've tried to make the transfer of power chapter better for the benefit of the country, and worked with the Biden administration regarding Afghanistan. Instead, he shunned the transfer and tried to sabotage an incoming administration by attempting to withdraw all US troops back home before the inauguration. All this accomplished was endanger more lives as we're witnessing today. For what?

Now he's reduced to a silly guy screaming for anyone silly enough to listen how Biden is importing thousands of terrorists which he knows full well he has more than a huge part of the reason why in more ways than one, why we are where we are today.

[BillyB]

For days warnings were given that current intel indicates an attack was possible and even imminent.

Then why were so many of our troops huddled together and put in harms way? Over a dozen killed and many dozens were hospitalized? What good is intel if the warnings are ignored on purpose?




After Biden's speech he said "They gave me a list here. The first person I was instructed to call on was Kelly O'Donnell from NBC". 'They' is in control of Biden and the whole Q & A session without teleprompter was scripted so he wouldn't look so bad.




Veterans group said when Biden quickly pulled the troops, he had them leave behind billions of equipment, including drones and night vision goggles. It seems we did this on purpose to equip the Taliban. Our night vision technology will be sold to China and Russia. This is a BIG deal. For those that were in the military, when doing exercises, you know if someone lost a weapon or night vision goggles in training, nobody goes home until they're found. For those in high speed units, you know we train to fight the enemy at night because we could see better than them. That is a huge advantage. With night vision goggles in Russia's and China's hands, they will become our equals when it comes to vision at night. More of our soldiers will die in the future because certain technology will be transferred into our advisaries hands.


The latest night vision goggles augments reality. Much much better than the ones I used. Video in link below.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/05/24/army-night-vision-goggles/

[BillyB]

Veterans group also said we left behind biometric devices which contain all the fingerprints and eye scans of everybody who partnered with America for the last 20 years in Afghanistan. Guess what the Taliban will use those devices for? Ask yourself why we rushed out of there leaving that kind of stuff behind? What kind of people would do such a thing to risk other people's lives, especially the ones that helped us fight the terrorists?

[tfcrew]

Look at much of Trump's presidency...rather chaotic.   Who knows how our departure in Afghanistan would have went under trump ...

We're back on the Doctrines threads again? Let it go please!!!

[GQBlues]

Veterans group also said we left behind biometric devices which contain all the fingerprints and eye scans of everybody who partnered with America for the last 20 years in Afghanistan. Guess what the Taliban will use those devices for? Ask yourself why we rushed out of there leaving that kind of stuff behind? What kind of people would do such a thing to risk other people's lives, especially the ones that helped us fight the terrorists?

What you should be asking are these:

1. Why did we even invaded the country in the first place if our prime objective was to get OBL and oust Al Qaeda out of Afghanistan as a result of 911, yet they've been out there fighting alongside the Taliban - not least of which includes ISIS-K - which is counter to the tenet of Trump's peace deal made with the Taliban.

2. The other tenet broken was the Talibans and the Afghan government were conditioned to broker a peace deal, yet the Taliban initiated violence against the Afghan forces instead.

On both occasions, Trump did nothing to enforce the negotiated peace deal. Those veterans should've known that, right?

[fathertime]

We're back on the Doctrines threads again? Let it go please!!!

Person posted he thought it would go better under Trump.   My comment was referencing his trump comment. 

Fathertime! 

[BC]

Veterans group also said we left behind biometric devices which contain all the fingerprints and eye scans of everybody who partnered with America for the last 20 years in Afghanistan.

1. The devices don't have enough storage to do what the group claims.  According to the manual it has enough storage for approximately 22000 profiles, likely less with pictures. http://info.publicintelligence.net/HIIDE4.02.pdf

2. The device itself is nothing secret.  They are out of stock though at this time.  Maybe the Taliban will sell 'em cheaper than 500 bucks.
http://www.rhinotradellc.com/shop/securimetrics-l-1-identity-solutions-hiide-series-4-handheld-identity-detection/

3. We don't know how they were used.  There are several scenarios. To identify bad guys, where bad guys are stored on the device, to collect good guys and their data is only uploaded, whether folks destroyed the device database per the manual, whether the devices can be remotely wiped.  The local database would certainly be encrypted to military standards.

4. Logins are required for the devices, or iris scans of the authorized user.

5. Devices and logins can easily be disabled on the server side. There may be more admin capabilities when devices connect that are not published.

6. Device loss and compromise is certainly a consideration that was taken into account when DOD purchased the devices.  I suspect quite a few of them have been lost in the past.

We'll just have to wait until further information is known, but is premature to cry wolf.

[Gator]

A list of American military equipment left in Afghanistan:


2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAPs
75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc.
45 UH-60 Blackhawk Helicopters
50 MD530G Scout Attack Helicopters
ScanEagle Military Drones
30 Military Version Cessnas
4 C-130s
29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tucano Ground Attack Aircraft
Heavy Equipment, Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators
__________________________________________________________________________ __

61,000 M203 Rounds
20,040 Grenades
Howitzers
Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Communications Gear
16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Googles
10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
Reconnaissance Equipment (ISR)
Laser Aiming Units
Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
2,520 Bombs
Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops ALL operational
Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics




http://www.ammoland.com/2021/08/full-list-of-american-weapons-left-afghanistan/

[fathertime]

A list of American military equipment left in Afghanistan:


2,000 Armored Vehicles Including Humvees and MRAPs
75,989 Total Vehicles: FMTV, M35, Ford Rangers, Ford F350, Ford Vans, Toyota Pickups, Armored Security Vehicles etc.
45 UH-60 Blackhawk Helicopters
50 MD530G Scout Attack Helicopters
ScanEagle Military Drones
30 Military Version Cessnas
4 C-130s
29 Brazilian made A-29 Super Tucano Ground Attack Aircraft
Heavy Equipment, Including Bull Dozers, Backhoes, Dump Trucks, Excavators
__________________________________________________________________________ __

61,000 M203 Rounds
20,040 Grenades
Howitzers
Mortars +1,000’s of Rounds
162,000 pieces of Encrypted Military Communications Gear
16,000+ Night Vision Goggles
Newest Technology Night Vision Scopes
Thermal Scopes and Thermal Mono Googles
10,000 2.75 inch Air to Ground Rockets
Reconnaissance Equipment (ISR)
Laser Aiming Units
Explosives Ordnance C-4, Semtex, Detonators, Shaped Charges, Thermite, Incendiaries, AP/API/APIT
2,520 Bombs
Administration Encrypted Cell Phones and Laptops ALL operational
Pallets with Millions of Dollars in US Currency
Millions of Rounds of Ammunition including but not limited to 20,150,600 rounds of 7.62mm, 9,000,000 rounds of 50.caliber
Large Stockpile of Plate Carriers and Body Armor
US Military HIIDE, for Handheld Interagency Identity Detection Equipment Biometrics




http://www.ammoland.com/2021/08/full-list-of-american-weapons-left-afghanistan/

A relevant question is what condition are these items like helicopters in?   It would appear a decision was made that they weren’t worth the cost to drag them back. 

Fathertime!   

[2tallbill]

With a few days to go, what are we looking at, 130 thousand, maybe more?  Where do we draw the line? 

More misdirection, nobody cares about how many people are evacuated.
The questions is this: 

How many Americans do we leave behind? Where do we draw the line?

[2tallbill]

Who knows how our departure in Afghanistan would have went under Trump. 

Who cares how our departure would have been under George Washington? George
didn't f#ck it up Biden did. Trump didn't f#ck it up Biden did. At some point Biden
has to take the blame for things that Biden does.

[Boethius]

To be fair, Trump kind of did, as he negotiated the terms of withdrawal.  Biden made a mistake in setting an arbitrary deadline.

[2tallbill]

A list of American military equipment left in Afghanistan:

I ONLY care about our young American men and women. How many do we
leave behind? The ONLY correct answer ZERO.

[BC]

More misdirection, nobody cares about how many people are evacuated.

I posted my reflections, not replying to a post or directed at any poster.  How you can feel I am misdirecting eludes me.

Bad hair day?

As for the numbers of Americans, I've seen 1500 kicked around, 500 of which are in contact with officials and desire to leave and 1000 more estimated.  Of the thousand, I've seen reported that an undetermined number of these may not be US citizens.

I do hope that all USC's wanting to leave can do so, and am confident everyone is doing everything possible to make that happen.

[2tallbill]

To be fair, Trump kind of did, as he negotiated the terms of withdrawal.  Biden made a mistake in setting an arbitrary deadline.

Are you familiar with the Iranian nuke deal that Obama negotiated with Iran?
How about the climate accords in Paris?

Biden owns this not Trump.

[BC]

Are you familiar with the Iranian nuke deal that Obama negotiated with Iran?
How about the climate accords in Paris?

Misdirection?

[fathertime]

Who cares how our departure would have been under George Washington? George
didn't f#ck it up Biden did. Trump didn't f#ck it up Biden did. At some point Biden
has to take the blame for things that Biden does.

Another poster brought up how he felt it would have went smooth under trump.  I don't think it would have went as smooth as he says it would have gone.  There is no way to know now.    Biden is taking a few hits on the issue of how it is getting done, but ultimately we will be out of Afghanistan so he has done what he needed to do. 

Fathertime!