Is this an accurate view of how many Russian Girls are?

[ML]

You’re your own worst enemy.

WOW . . . the two words used correctly in the same sentence !!

[Trenchcoat]

That's especially true somewhere like Odesa.  The average annual salary for a male in Odesa is about 1.5  million hryvnia, which is about 10,000 pounds or more than Trench's current UK salary.

Ah back to the 'average' annual salary are we

Despite Odessa being one of the more prosperous areas of Ukraine the UK still has a lot higher property prices. In Ukraine plenty of places can be had pretty cheap, a UK mortgage to fund a place there could go quite a long way.

In addition my expenses can be in theory a lot cheaper than Ukrainians, though possibly not those still living free in old state owned concrete block apartments.

[Trenchcoat]

Nothing like a bit of suspicion to kill a relationship. You’re your own worst enemy.

You are not wealthy, by any measurable standard. Not in the UK and not in Ukraine either.
Your ‘income’ from your bedsit rental will, at best, pay your bills with some small change left over.
There won’t be ladies falling over to queue up for such an illustrious catch.

Gaunty, in the UK I'm a pauper, in Ukraine I'm an oligarch

I'll have dirt poor half naked Ukrainian peasant girls throwing themselves at me!

[Trenchcoat]

Apparently according to Google 23000 UAH is the monthly average for Ukraine citizens in Odessa in 2021. Works out to about 598 mighty GBP so only just over half what I earn, that's without me working at full stretch of course on a two day part time week

[Boethius]

Ah back to the 'average' annual salary are we

Despite Odessa being one of the more prosperous areas of Ukraine the UK still has a lot higher property prices. In Ukraine plenty of places can be had pretty cheap, a UK mortgage to fund a place there could go quite a long way.

In addition my expenses can be in theory a lot cheaper than Ukrainians, though possibly not those still living free in old state owned concrete block apartments.

That's all irrelevant.  The average man in Odesa earns more in salary than you earn in a year.  That man likely has an apartment he owns.  You will be renting.  The value of your UK property will be irrelevant when you're living in Odesa.  All that will be relevant is how much spending money you have, and on that front, you are punching below the average Ukrainian.  So where is your "advantage"?

Apparently according to Google 23000 UAH is the monthly average for Ukraine citizens in Odessa in 2021. Works out to about 598 mighty GBP so only just over half what I earn, that's without me working at full stretch of course on a two day part time week

That average includes women, who generally earn half of what men earn.  I took salaries from government figures, of men only.

[Jumper1]

WOW . . . the two words used correctly in the same sentence !!

Well ,John is English afterall?

[Jumper1]

That's all irrelevant.  The average man in Odesa earns more in salary than you earn in a year.  That man likely has an apartment he owns.  You will be renting.  The value of your UK property will be irrelevant when you're living in Odesa.  All that will be relevant is how much spending money you have, and on that front, you are punching below the average Ukrainian.  So where is your "advantage"?



That average includes women, who generally earn half of what men earn.  I took salaries from government figures, of men only.

He will.have that bloody British accent!!

Oh as a young man what I could have done with just tht alone hehehehe..

I think TC would get a rude awakening of what his monthly costs would be living as an expat, trying to actively date full time in another country , in any popular city like kyiv or Odessa.


Now I could send him.to my great aunts village and he could be fine andcquite the catch.
Granted I havnt seen a woman under 45 there in decades ,or if so ,they were just visiting

[Steven1971]

Apparently according to Google 23000 UAH is the monthly average for Ukraine citizens in Odessa in 2021. Works out to about 598 mighty GBP so only just over half what I earn, that's without me working at full stretch of course on a two day part time week

Forgive me writing to you Trench directly as I feel I have grown to know you over the years I have lurked on this forum. I feel I have some similarities to your situation and after registering in 2014 I feel now is the time to give my twopenniesworth.

Are you saying you earn £250 a week just working 2 days or is the two day part time week an in joke for the forum?

Regardless I seriously doubt you would get £1000 a week from renting out your 2 up, 2 down.

I own a two bed maisonette in a commuter town 7 miles from Nottingham which I rent out and have done since 2014. I don't charge the full market rate as I prefer to keep a long term tenant. I change £450, but I could get £500. I will be asking for £475 next year as inflation is going to hit 7% and I haven't increased the rent for the past 4 years.

As I live locally I don't have a property company managing it. I haven't had too many problems to sort out, but when they have come they haven't always been straight forward. Just last autumn the boiler was leaking and the required repair cost £325. The leak started a few days before the annual obligatory gas check. The boiler itself was new in 2014 at the beginning of the tenancy, so in a few years a replacement will cost £3500-5000 depending on inflation.

For a more accurate comparison with your future abode for Cardiff students my brother in law owns a property in the more desirable Nottingham suburb of Beeston. For his 2 bed house he charges £650 per month. As it is a student house it is empty during the three months of summer.

Fortunately for you Ukraine only allows you to reside there for any 90 days in 180 so you can time your return for when the house is vacant. A shame to miss out on the Odessa summer.. Being a get up and go chap you would no doubt be working the day after landing as otherwise no money would be coming in the door.

http://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ukraine/entry-requirements

British Citizen passport holders can enter Ukraine without a visa for visits of up to 90 days within a 180-day period. Ukraine has confirmed that this policy will continue to apply to British citizens until 30 January 2023.

Although there are no penalties for British citizens overstaying under the visa-free regime during quarantine (providing they leave within 30 days of quarantine ending), anyone who has overstayed will not be able to return to Ukraine for 90 days after leaving the country.

If you’re planning to stay in Ukraine for longer than 90 days in a 180 day period, you need to get a visa.

Proof of financial means

You may be asked to provide evidence that you have sufficient funds to support you during your stay. The Ukrainian authorities accept the following as a proof of sufficient funds: cash, bank cards along with bank statements, accommodation bookings, tourist vouchers, a letter from the person or company you’re visiting stating that they will cover your expenses, a return ticket or onward travel ticket.

Anyway, assuming all things are equal and you did manage to rent an apartment.

You won't pay the same as a local.

I was chatting to a woman from Kyiv on Tuesday. She told me a 2 bed apartment in Kyiv is 15,000 uah a month. Which is a big chunk of a monthly salary.

How do people afford it I asked. One partner pays the rent, the other pays the bills. And for single people they either share or work insane hours.

Now 15000 uah is £390.

The last time I went to Kyiv in 2018 I paid £30 a night for an apartment and the bathroom was not great.

If locals know an English guy will pay £30 a night for a not salubrious apartment they are going to charge you more than £390 for 30 nights.

I speak French fluently. I studied German for three years at school. I made serious efforts to learn Russian between 2015 and 2017 and even now it is survival level. I would not want to be living in Ukraine with the limited Russian I know.

Here is a simple task. How many of these phrases do you know?  I watched 20 minutes this evening and I know 90% - I assume it will become more difficult during the remaining 40 minutes. Some of the pronunciation grind my teeth.



My point is even if you make serious efforts, say 2 hours every evening, Russian is not an easy language to master.

Watch a Navalny video and you might catch the odd word you recognise. I watch and think wow he speaks fast and I remind myself that is how French felt when I was 12.  After all the hours I put in I feel like I have studied it for one year at school. That's how faraway I am from fluency in Russian.

My gut instinct is your rental income won't be as high as you hope, you will have unexpected expenditure required for the house, your outgoings in Ukraine won't be as low as you imagine and you would have difficulty communicating with any Ukrainian who didn't have a good grasp of English.

Any exotic appeal a western guy has for a Ukrainian woman would not be apparent to Ukrainian  women who want to be with a Western man who met you there. A large part of the motivation is to move to America, Europe, Asia or Australia.

Over there you would be directly compared to the local men. You might find a woman who would be interested in you as a person, but it might not be the type of woman you have in mind.

I lived in France for 15 years and I can tell you it isn't easy living in another country. Anyone can go abroad for two weeks in the knowledge they will return to Blighty. It's ok to fantasise. For those of us looking in Ukraine the fantasy is what keeps us motivated, especially when you have to dust yourself off and climb back on the horse.

If you go ahead with this idea you are IMO 90% certain to introduce yourself to a world of pain.

Just as a side note whether in your current situation or in Ukraine you don't seem to be making any plans for your pension.

I will pay off my own house in 10 years, will inherit from my mum and dad and in addition to the bare minimum state pension I am paying 4% into my pension with my employer also paying in 4%. Even with all that I think I will continue working after the official retirement age.

I hope some of that was constructive food for thought.

Steven

[John Gaunt]

Forgive me writing to you Trench directly as I feel I have grown to know you over the years I have lurked on this forum. I feel I have some similarities to your situation and after registering in 2014 I feel now is the time to give my twopenniesworth.

Are you saying you earn £250 a week just working 2 days or is the two day part time week an in joke for the forum?

Regardless I seriously doubt you would get £1000 a week from renting out your 2 up, 2 down.

I own a two bed maisonette in a commuter town 7 miles from Nottingham which I rent out and have done since 2014. I don't charge the full market rate as I prefer to keep a long term tenant. I change £450, but I could get £500. I will be asking for £475 next year as inflation is going to hit 7% and I haven't increased the rent for the past 4 years.

As I live locally I don't have a property company managing it. I haven't had too many problems to sort out, but when they have come they haven't always been straight forward. Just last autumn the boiler was leaking and the required repair cost £325. The leak started a few days before the annual obligatory gas check. The boiler itself was new in 2014 at the beginning of the tenancy, so in a few years a replacement will cost £3500-5000 depending on inflation.

For a more accurate comparison with your future abode for Cardiff students my brother in law owns a property in the more desirable Nottingham suburb of Beeston. For his 2 bed house he charges £650 per month. As it is a student house it is empty during the three months of summer.

Fortunately for you Ukraine only allows you to reside there for any 90 days in 180 so you can time your return for when the house is vacant. A shame to miss out on the Odessa summer.. Being a get up and go chap you would no doubt be working the day after landing as otherwise no money would be coming in the door.

http://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ukraine/entry-requirements

British Citizen passport holders can enter Ukraine without a visa for visits of up to 90 days within a 180-day period. Ukraine has confirmed that this policy will continue to apply to British citizens until 30 January 2023.

Although there are no penalties for British citizens overstaying under the visa-free regime during quarantine (providing they leave within 30 days of quarantine ending), anyone who has overstayed will not be able to return to Ukraine for 90 days after leaving the country.

If you’re planning to stay in Ukraine for longer than 90 days in a 180 day period, you need to get a visa.

Proof of financial means

You may be asked to provide evidence that you have sufficient funds to support you during your stay. The Ukrainian authorities accept the following as a proof of sufficient funds: cash, bank cards along with bank statements, accommodation bookings, tourist vouchers, a letter from the person or company you’re visiting stating that they will cover your expenses, a return ticket or onward travel ticket.

Anyway, assuming all things are equal and you did manage to rent an apartment.

You won't pay the same as a local.

I was chatting to a woman from Kyiv on Tuesday. She told me a 2 bed apartment in Kyiv is 15,000 uah a month. Which is a big chunk of a monthly salary.

How do people afford it I asked. One partner pays the rent, the other pays the bills. And for single people they either share or work insane hours.

Now 15000 uah is £390.

The last time I went to Kyiv in 2018 I paid £30 a night for an apartment and the bathroom was not great.

If locals know an English guy will pay £30 a night for a not salubrious apartment they are going to charge you more than £390 for 30 nights.

I speak French fluently. I studied German for three years at school. I made serious efforts to learn Russian between 2015 and 2017 and even now it is survival level. I would not want to be living in Ukraine with the limited Russian I know.

Here is a simple task. How many of these phrases do you know?  I watched 20 minutes this evening and I know 90% - I assume it will become more difficult during the remaining 40 minutes. Some of the pronunciation grind my teeth.



My point is even if you make serious efforts, say 2 hours every evening, Russian is not an easy language to master.

Watch a Navalny video and you might catch the odd word you recognise. I watch and think wow he speaks fast and I remind myself that is how French felt when I was 12.  After all the hours I put in I feel like I have studied it for one year at school. That's how faraway I am from fluency in Russian.

My gut instinct is your rental income won't be as high as you hope, you will have unexpected expenditure required for the house, your outgoings in Ukraine won't be as low as you imagine and you would have difficulty communicating with any Ukrainian who didn't have a good grasp of English.

Any exotic appeal a western guy has for a Ukrainian woman would not be apparent to Ukrainian  women who want to be with a Western man who met you there. A large part of the motivation is to move to America, Europe, Asia or Australia.

Over there you would be directly compared to the local men. You might find a woman who would be interested in you as a person, but it might not be the type of woman you have in mind.

I lived in France for 15 years and I can tell you it isn't easy living in another country. Anyone can go abroad for two weeks in the knowledge they will return to Blighty. It's ok to fantasise. For those of us looking in Ukraine the fantasy is what keeps us motivated, especially when you have to dust yourself off and climb back on the horse.

If you go ahead with this idea you are IMO 90% certain to introduce yourself to a world of pain.

Just as a side note whether in your current situation or in Ukraine you don't seem to be making any plans for your pension.

I will pay off my own house in 10 years, will inherit from my mum and dad and in addition to the bare minimum state pension I am paying 4% into my pension with my employer also paying in 4%. Even with all that I think I will continue working after the official retirement age.

I hope some of that was constructive food for thought.

Steven

Great post Steven and welcome to the forum.

We have been trying to knock some sense into TC for half a decade but he continues with his irrationality.

On the subject of renting you are quite right.
I rent a property out in the SE of England. It’s a 3 bed house in a picturesque village and rent it for £1100 pcm. I use a management company so that costs 10% plus vat.
As you say there are regular cost a landlord has to bear. I spent almost £10000 in the last year for some essential renovations in between tenants including electrical certification as the regs had changed so TC doesn’t really have a clue about what’s involved in renting out property and even less if he thinks he can do it at a distance.
I myself  live outside the UK and living as an expat is vastly different.
I don’t have much change left out of £3k living expenses and that’s not including house rental and schools for my kids.

Trench fantasizes about his (imaginary) economic advantage he would have if living there but while that might have been true 20 years or more ago, Ukraine is a vastly different country to what it was in the decade or so after independence.
Trench has zero chance of success. If he changes his attitude (to women) and adopts some realism, he just may have a small chance of finding someone but it won’t be the super hot hottie he aspires to.

[Trenchcoat]

Forgive me writing to you Trench directly as I feel I have grown to know you over the years I have lurked on this forum. I feel I have some similarities to your situation and after registering in 2014 I feel now is the time to give my twopenniesworth.

Are you saying you earn £250 a week just working 2 days or is the two day part time week an in joke for the forum?

Regardless I seriously doubt you would get £1000 a week from renting out your 2 up, 2 down.

I own a two bed maisonette in a commuter town 7 miles from Nottingham which I rent out and have done since 2014. I don't charge the full market rate as I prefer to keep a long term tenant. I change £450, but I could get £500. I will be asking for £475 next year as inflation is going to hit 7% and I haven't increased the rent for the past 4 years.

As I live locally I don't have a property company managing it. I haven't had too many problems to sort out, but when they have come they haven't always been straight forward. Just last autumn the boiler was leaking and the required repair cost £325. The leak started a few days before the annual obligatory gas check. The boiler itself was new in 2014 at the beginning of the tenancy, so in a few years a replacement will cost £3500-5000 depending on inflation.

For a more accurate comparison with your future abode for Cardiff students my brother in law owns a property in the more desirable Nottingham suburb of Beeston. For his 2 bed house he charges £650 per month. As it is a student house it is empty during the three months of summer.

Fortunately for you Ukraine only allows you to reside there for any 90 days in 180 so you can time your return for when the house is vacant. A shame to miss out on the Odessa summer.. Being a get up and go chap you would no doubt be working the day after landing as otherwise no money would be coming in the door.

http://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ukraine/entry-requirements

British Citizen passport holders can enter Ukraine without a visa for visits of up to 90 days within a 180-day period. Ukraine has confirmed that this policy will continue to apply to British citizens until 30 January 2023.

Although there are no penalties for British citizens overstaying under the visa-free regime during quarantine (providing they leave within 30 days of quarantine ending), anyone who has overstayed will not be able to return to Ukraine for 90 days after leaving the country.

If you’re planning to stay in Ukraine for longer than 90 days in a 180 day period, you need to get a visa.

Proof of financial means

You may be asked to provide evidence that you have sufficient funds to support you during your stay. The Ukrainian authorities accept the following as a proof of sufficient funds: cash, bank cards along with bank statements, accommodation bookings, tourist vouchers, a letter from the person or company you’re visiting stating that they will cover your expenses, a return ticket or onward travel ticket.

Anyway, assuming all things are equal and you did manage to rent an apartment.

You won't pay the same as a local.

I was chatting to a woman from Kyiv on Tuesday. She told me a 2 bed apartment in Kyiv is 15,000 uah a month. Which is a big chunk of a monthly salary.

How do people afford it I asked. One partner pays the rent, the other pays the bills. And for single people they either share or work insane hours.

Now 15000 uah is £390.

The last time I went to Kyiv in 2018 I paid £30 a night for an apartment and the bathroom was not great.

If locals know an English guy will pay £30 a night for a not salubrious apartment they are going to charge you more than £390 for 30 nights.

I speak French fluently. I studied German for three years at school. I made serious efforts to learn Russian between 2015 and 2017 and even now it is survival level. I would not want to be living in Ukraine with the limited Russian I know.

Here is a simple task. How many of these phrases do you know?  I watched 20 minutes this evening and I know 90% - I assume it will become more difficult during the remaining 40 minutes. Some of the pronunciation grind my teeth.



My point is even if you make serious efforts, say 2 hours every evening, Russian is not an easy language to master.

Watch a Navalny video and you might catch the odd word you recognise. I watch and think wow he speaks fast and I remind myself that is how French felt when I was 12.  After all the hours I put in I feel like I have studied it for one year at school. That's how faraway I am from fluency in Russian.

My gut instinct is your rental income won't be as high as you hope, you will have unexpected expenditure required for the house, your outgoings in Ukraine won't be as low as you imagine and you would have difficulty communicating with any Ukrainian who didn't have a good grasp of English.

Any exotic appeal a western guy has for a Ukrainian woman would not be apparent to Ukrainian  women who want to be with a Western man who met you there. A large part of the motivation is to move to America, Europe, Asia or Australia.

Over there you would be directly compared to the local men. You might find a woman who would be interested in you as a person, but it might not be the type of woman you have in mind.

I lived in France for 15 years and I can tell you it isn't easy living in another country. Anyone can go abroad for two weeks in the knowledge they will return to Blighty. It's ok to fantasise. For those of us looking in Ukraine the fantasy is what keeps us motivated, especially when you have to dust yourself off and climb back on the horse.

If you go ahead with this idea you are IMO 90% certain to introduce yourself to a world of pain.

Just as a side note whether in your current situation or in Ukraine you don't seem to be making any plans for your pension.

I will pay off my own house in 10 years, will inherit from my mum and dad and in addition to the bare minimum state pension I am paying 4% into my pension with my employer also paying in 4%. Even with all that I think I will continue working after the official retirement age.

I hope some of that was constructive food for thought.

Steven

  Steven it is good to hear from someone else on here so I don't mind at all.

I have a few different points on what you say. I'll start with pensions as for many I think they dream of retirement possibly you also. For me I tend to approach it from the perspective that there is no guarantee that I will be alive at retirement age and even if I am, for how long? I've never smoked, my diet has been ok over the years and bits of exercise here and there. I'm not suffering any medical condition that I know of at least but my official state pension retirement age will be 67 and from that point onwards age may start taking its toll if not by that point already. That's what I like about the State Pension while it's basic it's simple and doesn't go overboard trying to provide for something you may never reach. To be honest I'm not really bothered so much with worrying about the final few years of my life past retirement age should I get there I accept at that age it's not likely to be the greatest. If I need to do a part time job past retirement age it probably wouldn't be the worst situation. On inheritance I guess it would be around £200k for me minus tax, that's if I'm still alive and the property is sold. I would obviously rather have my Mother around as people that care about me and vice versa matter to me more than money. But in theory provided I don't do anything silly compared to some maybe many I'm in a decent enough place wealth wise for old age I guess.

Money wise I'm not too bad off. I have my house all paid off, once its finished (nearly there) I estimate its value will be around £140k. Its three bedroom, the smallest room I was going to keep aside for myself but I could rent that out also. I  have my stuff mainly at my Mother's place so it's doable. That will bring in probably somewhere near/around £900 or so for the three rooms monthly rent. I'm not sure why you aren't charging students for the summer my guess would be that it's a crowded market for Landlords in Nottingham do the students get to pick and choose so Landlords have to drop the summer period. Possibly Airbnb might be an option there, for me I reckon I can get students to pay for the year. I would try and get the contract to start from the 1st Sept and argue that it gives the student time to settle in before Uni, prepare, social/leisure time, moving in, etc. Then take the contract through to the end of August and argue that it gives the student time to move stuff out rather than have that right after exams, coursework deadlines, also somewhere to store their gear, again chill out and do stuff at the end of their course, etc. I think the point that the Landlord needs continuity is a fair point to out across. A room rented out for a month or so longer isn't going to be that much extra plus if they want to do two years in the same house then it makes less ordeal to move stuff in & out.

Language I'm definitely with you on that one, I have no special ability to learning languages lol. I'm the same I listen to a Russian guy speak and lucky if I can pick out the odd word or so. I learnt both French and German at School both very basic, German I found a bit easier but both would need a refresher if I had the need. Good news is that these days apps like Google translate do a fair bit, internet can help out some more then sone if the locals have good English, some if course not so. So while a few years back yeah it could be hard going abroad without fluency in the language these days less so I reckon.

The rent over there tends to be the case that the longer you rent the cheaper you get the place. Kyiv I would avoid as near the city centre would be high rent, Odessa while still fairly high in comparison isn't too bad I get the impression just as always avoid them trying to dupe a foreigner with much higher than usual rental prices.

Woman wise it's never really certain. A guy can think a plan will work and come up against issues, but I think there is a possibility. I'll be going for the local market rather than the International dating girls in the first instance. I'm aware that they aren't aiming for a foreign guy but if a guy comes across as credible, there is chemistry and he is willing to have a good degree of presence in the location then it's possible I reckon. I mean you think of it a guy flies in gets a nice enough rental and then says to the girl, 'hey, I can buy a decent place around here overnight for us' and 'there isn't likely to be any problems paying off the mortgage' as I can get my place in the UK mortgaged at a low interest rate and even then still likely have enough rental income over to live off (since I would no longer be paying rent there). That of course would only be when I would be solid with a girl, till then renting would suit fine I think, but it's the sort of proposal on offer to a girl (with chemistry). All in all it could be a good situation for both a western guy and a Ukrainian girl. The guy retains his ability to earn good money in the UK if needed as and when. Plus any offspring would have access to good earning potential in the UK then be able to come back and afford a good standard off living in Ukraine. Now what girl doesn't want to look out for their offspring doing well?

[Trenchcoat]

Great post Steven and welcome to the forum.

We have been trying to knock some sense into TC for half a decade but he continues with his irrationality.

On the subject of renting you are quite right.
I rent a property out in the SE of England. It’s a 3 bed house in a picturesque village and rent it for £1100 pcm. I use a management company so that costs 10% plus vat.
As you say there are regular cost a landlord has to bear. I spent almost £10000 in the last year for some essential renovations in between tenants including electrical certification as the regs had changed so TC doesn’t really have a clue about what’s involved in renting out property and even less if he thinks he can do it at a distance.
I myself  live outside the UK and living as an expat is vastly different.
I don’t have much change left out of £3k living expenses and that’s not including house rental and schools for my kids.

Trench fantasizes about his (imaginary) economic advantage he would have if living there but while that might have been true 20 years or more ago, Ukraine is a vastly different country to what it was in the decade or so after independence.
Trench has zero chance of success. If he changes his attitude (to women) and adopts some realism, he just may have a small chance of finding someone but it won’t be the super hot hottie he aspires to.

There was a difference, Ukraine was getting more wealthy again and recovering from the 2014 economic fallout also, I could see that during my last visit to Ukraine in 2019. Since then though there has been the virus and the economic impact from that, naturally Ukraine took an economic hit which for a still not very wealthy nation hit it hard. Add to that the energy crisis, Russia has completed its Nordstream 2 and has other pipelines to use. Ukraine still hasn't tapped into its own energy reserves so is energy poor. Many Ukrainians are forced to pay a lot for energy many now go without.

Then on top of that is any economic fallout from the present Russia situation.

[Steven1971]

When I was at university we were lazy and paid half rent over the summer to keep the house from being taken by someone else. That is the best scenario you will get.  If you are letting 3 rooms to 3 different students I'm pretty sure it will legally classed as a HMO, (House of Multiple Occupation), in which case it will be more complicated than a straightforward rental.

By the nature of the market you are going to have churn which you don't get with a long term rental. The more people who rent the greater your chances of damages and wear and tear.  I knew you had plans to create another room and had not realised this would create a third room.

Will this third room be significantly smaller than the other two or are you dividing one room into two? Both properties I own have good sized bedrooms compared to the rabbit hutch modern houses being built today, so it is not the worst idea in the world. I still feel even at 900 quid it feels a big wedge, but it is true that the rental and sales markets for property in the UK ATM are insane.

If you are serious in your intentions I think you might be wise to have a dry run in Ukraine rather than going the whole hog - see how things are for 4 or 6 weeks. Do a few extra shifts, save up a grand and you would have a house to go back to. The first time I spent significant time with my ex wife in France I stayed for a month around Christmas and New Year. By week 4 I was feeling very homesick.

In 2018 I met a woman in Kherson before going to Kyiv. After day 2 things were not going well and I spent day 3 and 4 wandering around Kherson. I didn't feel like a babe magnet to the local lasses.

Regarding your viewpoint on pensions and relaxed approach to work it is difficult to reconcile this to a future with a wife and children. As things are you have a lifestyle more suited to a single guy with few financial commitments. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with wanting a relationship with the best girl you can obtain. But long term you would be waving a great big red flag to a lot of women.

I notice you have swerved the point about the time you are legally allowed to reside in Ukraine which is odd for someone vociferous in their desire to control borders.


This is the official legal position:

http://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/884-2013-%D0%BF#Text

3. Foreigners and stateless persons for entry into Ukraine, stay on the territory of Ukraine, transit through the territory of Ukraine and departure from its borders to another state, unless otherwise provided by law, must have funds 20 times the subsistence level for one person per month, established in Ukraine on the day of their entry into Ukraine.

4. If the period of stay of a foreigner or stateless person in Ukraine is less than or more than one month, this amount is divided by the arithmetic number of days of the month (30 days) and multiplied by the planned number of days (five days are added). exactly:

FZ = (20 x P min ): 30) x (CD + 5),

where FZ - sufficient financial security;

P min - subsistence level per person per month;

CD - the planned number of days of stay in Ukraine.

5. In determining the sufficient financial security of an alien or stateless person, the duly confirmed financial obligations of the host party inviting the alien or stateless person shall be taken into account.

6. The availability of sufficient financial security or a guarantee of its availability may be confirmed in accordance with the procedure specified in part three of Article 21 of the Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Status of Foreigners and Stateless Persons”.

In short, like Brexit, it isn't as simple as those in favour would suggest.

Steve

[Steven1971]

Regarding remortgaging your house in the UK to buy in Ukraine.

In order to do this you would need to prove the income from the student rents would be double your mortgage payment. This is standard industry practice since the financial crisis.

So you would not be able to mortgage all of the assumed £140,000.

[Chelseaboy]

Forgive me writing to you Trench directly as I feel I have grown to know you over the years I have lurked on this forum. I feel I have some similarities to your situation and after registering in 2014 I feel now is the time to give my twopenniesworth.

Are you saying you earn £250 a week just working 2 days or is the two day part time week an in joke for the forum?

Regardless I seriously doubt you would get £1000 a week from renting out your 2 up, 2 down.

I own a two bed maisonette in a commuter town 7 miles from Nottingham which I rent out and have done since 2014. I don't charge the full market rate as I prefer to keep a long term tenant. I change £450, but I could get £500. I will be asking for £475 next year as inflation is going to hit 7% and I haven't increased the rent for the past 4 years.

As I live locally I don't have a property company managing it. I haven't had too many problems to sort out, but when they have come they haven't always been straight forward. Just last autumn the boiler was leaking and the required repair cost £325. The leak started a few days before the annual obligatory gas check. The boiler itself was new in 2014 at the beginning of the tenancy, so in a few years a replacement will cost £3500-5000 depending on inflation.

For a more accurate comparison with your future abode for Cardiff students my brother in law owns a property in the more desirable Nottingham suburb of Beeston. For his 2 bed house he charges £650 per month. As it is a student house it is empty during the three months of summer.

Fortunately for you Ukraine only allows you to reside there for any 90 days in 180 so you can time your return for when the house is vacant. A shame to miss out on the Odessa summer.. Being a get up and go chap you would no doubt be working the day after landing as otherwise no money would be coming in the door.

http://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/ukraine/entry-requirements

British Citizen passport holders can enter Ukraine without a visa for visits of up to 90 days within a 180-day period. Ukraine has confirmed that this policy will continue to apply to British citizens until 30 January 2023.

Although there are no penalties for British citizens overstaying under the visa-free regime during quarantine (providing they leave within 30 days of quarantine ending), anyone who has overstayed will not be able to return to Ukraine for 90 days after leaving the country.

If you’re planning to stay in Ukraine for longer than 90 days in a 180 day period, you need to get a visa.

Proof of financial means

You may be asked to provide evidence that you have sufficient funds to support you during your stay. The Ukrainian authorities accept the following as a proof of sufficient funds: cash, bank cards along with bank statements, accommodation bookings, tourist vouchers, a letter from the person or company you’re visiting stating that they will cover your expenses, a return ticket or onward travel ticket.

Anyway, assuming all things are equal and you did manage to rent an apartment.

You won't pay the same as a local.

I was chatting to a woman from Kyiv on Tuesday. She told me a 2 bed apartment in Kyiv is 15,000 uah a month. Which is a big chunk of a monthly salary.

How do people afford it I asked. One partner pays the rent, the other pays the bills. And for single people they either share or work insane hours.

Now 15000 uah is £390.

The last time I went to Kyiv in 2018 I paid £30 a night for an apartment and the bathroom was not great.

If locals know an English guy will pay £30 a night for a not salubrious apartment they are going to charge you more than £390 for 30 nights.

I speak French fluently. I studied German for three years at school. I made serious efforts to learn Russian between 2015 and 2017 and even now it is survival level. I would not want to be living in Ukraine with the limited Russian I know.

Here is a simple task. How many of these phrases do you know?  I watched 20 minutes this evening and I know 90% - I assume it will become more difficult during the remaining 40 minutes. Some of the pronunciation grind my teeth.



My point is even if you make serious efforts, say 2 hours every evening, Russian is not an easy language to master.

Watch a Navalny video and you might catch the odd word you recognise. I watch and think wow he speaks fast and I remind myself that is how French felt when I was 12.  After all the hours I put in I feel like I have studied it for one year at school. That's how faraway I am from fluency in Russian.

My gut instinct is your rental income won't be as high as you hope, you will have unexpected expenditure required for the house, your outgoings in Ukraine won't be as low as you imagine and you would have difficulty communicating with any Ukrainian who didn't have a good grasp of English.

Any exotic appeal a western guy has for a Ukrainian woman would not be apparent to Ukrainian  women who want to be with a Western man who met you there. A large part of the motivation is to move to America, Europe, Asia or Australia.

Over there you would be directly compared to the local men. You might find a woman who would be interested in you as a person, but it might not be the type of woman you have in mind.

I lived in France for 15 years and I can tell you it isn't easy living in another country. Anyone can go abroad for two weeks in the knowledge they will return to Blighty. It's ok to fantasise. For those of us looking in Ukraine the fantasy is what keeps us motivated, especially when you have to dust yourself off and climb back on the horse.

If you go ahead with this idea you are IMO 90% certain to introduce yourself to a world of pain.

Just as a side note whether in your current situation or in Ukraine you don't seem to be making any plans for your pension.

I will pay off my own house in 10 years, will inherit from my mum and dad and in addition to the bare minimum state pension I am paying 4% into my pension with my employer also paying in 4%. Even with all that I think I will continue working after the official retirement age.

I hope some of that was constructive food for thought.

Steven

I've lived abroad in non-English speaking countries and i was fighting the women off..i will add i haven't lived in the FSU.


On another forum a guy from the Netherlands i believe went to live in Odessa...and he was fighting the women off.They were supermodel standard apparently.
The hottest one turned up for their first couple of dates with her mother i seem to remember
He actually met her on the street..with her mother : ))
I think he was a guy in his twenties,made his living through IT,and i don't recall if he spoke the local language or not...some on here may remember him better than me.

[Chelseaboy]

Steven it is good to hear from someone else on here so I don't mind at all.

I have a few different points on what you say. I'll start with pensions as for many I think they dream of retirement possibly you also. For me I tend to approach it from the perspective that there is no guarantee that I will be alive at retirement age and even if I am, for how long? I've never smoked, my diet has been ok over the years and bits of exercise here and there. I'm not suffering any medical condition that I know of at least but my official state pension retirement age will be 67 and from that point onwards age may start taking its toll if not by that point already. That's what I like about the State Pension while it's basic it's simple and doesn't go overboard trying to provide for something you may never reach. To be honest I'm not really bothered so much with worrying about the final few years of my life past retirement age should I get there I accept at that age it's not likely to be the greatest. If I need to do a part time job past retirement age it probably wouldn't be the worst situation. On inheritance I guess it would be around £200k for me minus tax, that's if I'm still alive and the property is sold. I would obviously rather have my Mother around as people that care about me and vice versa matter to me more than money. But in theory provided I don't do anything silly compared to some maybe many I'm in a decent enough place wealth wise for old age I guess.

Money wise I'm not too bad off. I have my house all paid off, once its finished (nearly there) I estimate its value will be around £140k. Its three bedroom, the smallest room I was going to keep aside for myself but I could rent that out also. I  have my stuff mainly at my Mother's place so it's doable. That will bring in probably somewhere near/around £900 or so for the three rooms monthly rent. I'm not sure why you aren't charging students for the summer my guess would be that it's a crowded market for Landlords in Nottingham do the students get to pick and choose so Landlords have to drop the summer period. Possibly Airbnb might be an option there, for me I reckon I can get students to pay for the year. I would try and get the contract to start from the 1st Sept and argue that it gives the student time to settle in before Uni, prepare, social/leisure time, moving in, etc. Then take the contract through to the end of August and argue that it gives the student time to move stuff out rather than have that right after exams, coursework deadlines, also somewhere to store their gear, again chill out and do stuff at the end of their course, etc. I think the point that the Landlord needs continuity is a fair point to out across. A room rented out for a month or so longer isn't going to be that much extra plus if they want to do two years in the same house then it makes less ordeal to move stuff in & out.

Language I'm definitely with you on that one, I have no special ability to learning languages lol. I'm the same I listen to a Russian guy speak and lucky if I can pick out the odd word or so. I learnt both French and German at School both very basic, German I found a bit easier but both would need a refresher if I had the need. Good news is that these days apps like Google translate do a fair bit, internet can help out some more then sone if the locals have good English, some if course not so. So while a few years back yeah it could be hard going abroad without fluency in the language these days less so I reckon.

The rent over there tends to be the case that the longer you rent the cheaper you get the place. Kyiv I would avoid as near the city centre would be high rent, Odessa while still fairly high in comparison isn't too bad I get the impression just as always avoid them trying to dupe a foreigner with much higher than usual rental prices.

Woman wise it's never really certain. A guy can think a plan will work and come up against issues, but I think there is a possibility. I'll be going for the local market rather than the International dating girls in the first instance. I'm aware that they aren't aiming for a foreign guy but if a guy comes across as credible, there is chemistry and he is willing to have a good degree of presence in the location then it's possible I reckon. I mean you think of it a guy flies in gets a nice enough rental and then says to the girl, 'hey, I can buy a decent place around here overnight for us' and 'there isn't likely to be any problems paying off the mortgage' as I can get my place in the UK mortgaged at a low interest rate and even then still likely have enough rental income over to live off (since I would no longer be paying rent there). That of course would only be when I would be solid with a girl, till then renting would suit fine I think, but it's the sort of proposal on offer to a girl (with chemistry). All in all it could be a good situation for both a western guy and a Ukrainian girl. The guy retains his ability to earn good money in the UK if needed as and when. Plus any offspring would have access to good earning potential in the UK then be able to come back and afford a good standard off living in Ukraine. Now what girl doesn't want to look out for their offspring doing well?

Regarding student rental of property.


My son is at Uni in Brighton and he informs me that student properties are rarely vacant as the students tend to stay down there when their courses finish and get Universal Credit to pay the rent.


He's now on his third year,so had to move off Campus,and actually lost out on moving into the property he'd put the deposit down through the letting agency,because the existing student tenants refused to move out when their tenancy expired...and their parents fully supported them in this !
The agency managed to find him another property to move into..but it isn't such good quality.

[John Gaunt]

Regarding remortgaging your house in the UK to buy in Ukraine.

In order to do this you would need to prove the income from the student rents would be double your mortgage payment. This is standard industry practice since the financial crisis.

So you would not be able to mortgage all of the assumed £140,000.

I doubt very much that a UK bank would lend money to buy property in another country.

[Steven1971]

Regarding remortgaging your house in the UK to buy in Ukraine.

In order to do this you would need to prove the income from the student rents would be double your mortgage payment. This is standard industry practice since the financial crisis.

So you would not be able to mortgage all of the assumed £140,000.

WIth the aid of an online mortgage calculator:

A mortgage lasting 25 years with monthly repayments of £450 and an interest rate of 3.92% would give you a lump sum of £85, 971.

So regarding your rental income half will go straight away on repaying the mortgage. This needs to be repaid even if you have no tenants. Don't assume over 25 years it will be occupied for 325 months. Life doesn't work like that.

£85,971 would get you a nice house that's no lie. When I told the woman in Kyiv what my house is worth in the house price mad UK she showed me an amazing house in the Kyiv suburbs which would go for a million in London.

Anyway, assuming you had residence, a really massive F off assumption, given limited knowledge of Russian and no job lined up, there are complications with owning a house - legal fees, local taxes, utilities... How confident would you be on the phone?

For me having a house in Ukraine you either go all-in and sell your UK residence or you rent in Ukraine. You might think this halfway house is a genius hack, but month to month living would be complicated to put it politely.

Good on you for developing your house. Seems to me the best bet is to have it in sellable condition, put it on the market, then buy a doer upper, rinse and repeat. It's the only way you can increase your wealth without inheritance.

[Steven1971]

 

I doubt very much that a UK bank would lend money to buy property in another country.

I agree, but it's probably better he goes through the other four stages of grief before he arrives at acceptance.

[2tallbill]

Some interesting views of Russian women on there, some quite funny posts lol.

Who cares what teenage Russian girls are like? Russian female students are usually less
than 21 or 22 years old. They have zero clue what they want or what they are about.
They will change their minds with the change of the wind, or a pop song that they
were listening to.

Older women have a far better idea of who they are, what they want and what they don't
want. Show me what a 38-45 year old and up woman writes and I will break it down for
you. I was frustrated by the meandering minds of 20 year old women back when I was
young. I stopped dating them as soon as older women would date me.

[Trenchcoat]

I doubt very much that a UK bank would lend money to buy property in another country.

A UK bank would allow you to mortgage a property that you currently own that doesn't already have an existing mortgage. It's a good bet for them provided the mortgage value is not too high. If the mortgage can be covered by rent then it's no issue. On those grounds they wouldn't really care what you did with the money it's not their concern just so long as they can claim a house that is worth more than the mortgage value should the owner not keep up repayments and so long as it's new business where they can get profit off repayments it's all good to them.

[Trenchcoat]

Regarding student rental of property.


My son is at Uni in Brighton and he informs me that student properties are rarely vacant as the students tend to stay down there when their courses finish and get Universal Credit to pay the rent.


He's now on his third year,so had to move off Campus,and actually lost out on moving into the property he'd put the deposit down through the letting agency,because the existing student tenants refused to move out when their tenancy expired...and their parents fully supported them in this !
The agency managed to find him another property to move into..but it isn't such good quality.

I think that's about right CB, I get the impression the terrace house next to mine, some guy and a girl I think, kind of get the impression they are ex uni students. Don't get the impression they work and claim UC benefits. Out here in Wales they probably get an easy enough time of it down the jobcentre as not loads of jobs plus a Labour (Welsh) Government etc. Seem nice enough but it looks like it's all leisure time with them and going around as if they are wealthy, shopping, ease of lifestyle, etc.

Possibly the situation many be different in Nottingham as hear they are swamped with Student Lets up there. When I was at Uni in Southampton a number of years ago I paid till the end of August in a private let. I don't really see the issue in it as people tend to be more wealthy than many years ago plus they get student loans and grants. I think when explained to them that it's not likely to be a big deal not many will mind most seem to have a pretty casual attitude these days I think. Think the last exams/end of year stuff is usually end of June/beginning of July. In addition sometimes there are end of year shows, or project/dissertation stuff to work on or meet up with their lecturers during early Summer so that and wrapping stuff up in their accommodation tends to take July up. So then it's just August and who knows what might crop up there where the accommodation can be handy. So for them per room it's not a big deal for me overall it would be a slight pain of course to lose a month's rent though probably not bank breaking.

[Trenchcoat]

When I was at university we were lazy and paid half rent over the summer to keep the house from being taken by someone else. That is the best scenario you will get.  If you are letting 3 rooms to 3 different students I'm pretty sure it will legally classed as a HMO, (House of Multiple Occupation), in which case it will be more complicated than a straightforward rental.

By the nature of the market you are going to have churn which you don't get with a long term rental. The more people who rent the greater your chances of damages and wear and tear.  I knew you had plans to create another room and had not realised this would create a third room.

Will this third room be significantly smaller than the other two or are you dividing one room into two? Both properties I own have good sized bedrooms compared to the rabbit hutch modern houses being built today, so it is not the worst idea in the world. I still feel even at 900 quid it feels a big wedge, but it is true that the rental and sales markets for property in the UK ATM are insane.

If you are serious in your intentions I think you might be wise to have a dry run in Ukraine rather than going the whole hog - see how things are for 4 or 6 weeks. Do a few extra shifts, save up a grand and you would have a house to go back to. The first time I spent significant time with my ex wife in France I stayed for a month around Christmas and New Year. By week 4 I was feeling very homesick.

In 2018 I met a woman in Kherson before going to Kyiv. After day 2 things were not going well and I spent day 3 and 4 wandering around Kherson. I didn't feel like a babe magnet to the local lasses.

Regarding your viewpoint on pensions and relaxed approach to work it is difficult to reconcile this to a future with a wife and children. As things are you have a lifestyle more suited to a single guy with few financial commitments. Nothing wrong with that and nothing wrong with wanting a relationship with the best girl you can obtain. But long term you would be waving a great big red flag to a lot of women.

I notice you have swerved the point about the time you are legally allowed to reside in Ukraine which is odd for someone vociferous in their desire to control borders.


This is the official legal position:

http://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/884-2013-%D0%BF#Text

3. Foreigners and stateless persons for entry into Ukraine, stay on the territory of Ukraine, transit through the territory of Ukraine and departure from its borders to another state, unless otherwise provided by law, must have funds 20 times the subsistence level for one person per month, established in Ukraine on the day of their entry into Ukraine.

4. If the period of stay of a foreigner or stateless person in Ukraine is less than or more than one month, this amount is divided by the arithmetic number of days of the month (30 days) and multiplied by the planned number of days (five days are added). exactly:

FZ = (20 x P min ): 30) x (CD + 5),

where FZ - sufficient financial security;

P min - subsistence level per person per month;

CD - the planned number of days of stay in Ukraine.

5. In determining the sufficient financial security of an alien or stateless person, the duly confirmed financial obligations of the host party inviting the alien or stateless person shall be taken into account.

6. The availability of sufficient financial security or a guarantee of its availability may be confirmed in accordance with the procedure specified in part three of Article 21 of the Law of Ukraine “On the Legal Status of Foreigners and Stateless Persons”.

In short, like Brexit, it isn't as simple as those in favour would suggest.

Steve

You make some good points Steven, you are right in this idea is not necessarily going to be plain sailing. The situation you state with a girl in Kherson I think is true, I know from previous trip to Nikolaev, etc that girls are not necessarily going to drop at my feet. Some guys I think are pretty boys or stand out in the right way to women but unlike CB and those he knows I don't think I'm that lucky lol. I would love to have model girls swooning around me but think daily experience would likely be more like you found in Kherson. I can get them up through apps and stuff easy enough now so that would be my main resource most likely while out there.

On the house the third room is the front living room (it's set back from the road a bit), the extension at the back allows for a bathroom and a very small lounge, that will suffice given its a rental. The two rooms upstairs I have been careful not to partition off, the location off the stairs now won't allow it anyway. My view is the same that a lot off new builds are essentially rabbit hutches these days, I've seen one from the outside looking in and my brother saw many when looking around for a house and eventually put off by it. Mine is more like the traditional miners terrace, Edwardian era, so it's only a little bit bigger. Some people do partition off upstairs but I just feel that is not humane or desirable, having a prison cell like tiny bedroom just doesn't feel good for me or anyone else. It should rent out ok as will be pretty decent offering for around here I think.

With the entry requirements I'm not sure if I've ever been asked for financial evidence, they probably don't bother for a short stay of a week or two. Not sure if they've ever enquired as to length of stay either. Might be that as a foreigner from a wealthy western country they don't see any reason why you would seek to be there if no to little financial support. I think you're right to sone extent that a 4-6 week 'dry run', I hope not too dry isn't a bad idea. It can vary a bit staying in a place that feels at home, getting a good girl, etc and sometimes a longer period can give more time over too getting involved.

I think for me a period of say 4-6 weeks that I can extend would work out best, obviously on rent etc that might mean paying a little more rent it all depends on finding the right deal overall.

[Trenchcoat]

WIth the aid of an online mortgage calculator:

A mortgage lasting 25 years with monthly repayments of £450 and an interest rate of 3.92% would give you a lump sum of £85, 971.

So regarding your rental income half will go straight away on repaying the mortgage. This needs to be repaid even if you have no tenants. Don't assume over 25 years it will be occupied for 325 months. Life doesn't work like that.

£85,971 would get you a nice house that's no lie. When I told the woman in Kyiv what my house is worth in the house price mad UK she showed me an amazing house in the Kyiv suburbs which would go for a million in London.

Anyway, assuming you had residence, a really massive F off assumption, given limited knowledge of Russian and no job lined up, there are complications with owning a house - legal fees, local taxes, utilities... How confident would you be on the phone?

For me having a house in Ukraine you either go all-in and sell your UK residence or you rent in Ukraine. You might think this halfway house is a genius hack, but month to month living would be complicated to put it politely.

Good on you for developing your house. Seems to me the best bet is to have it in sellable condition, put it on the market, then buy a doer upper, rinse and repeat. It's the only way you can increase your wealth without inheritance.

Good to hear you found the same with buying a house abroad For me I would not buy a house straight away, it's more of a long term situation so no rush for me. Rental with an easy in, easy out situation is best for me in the short term. Longer term the house would be if I found the right girl, marriage, kids, etc as she would be wanting some reassurance that I would be staying around and somewhere for the kids, etc.

For me keeping the house in the UK is essential as it's pretty much done up now for the rental market. Buying up houses to sell on is a bit if a different process. It's quicker (usually) than converting a house but relies on finding houses to tart up then sell on. It's not a bad way off bringing in money but there's no continuous income from it once you are doing something elsewhere. Getting people in to do the work takes a lot if the profit out of it and costs a fair bit. Plus also stamp duty on second homes can now have a bit off an impact. The house I've presently got no way would I sell, just too much hard work out in for that, I kind off want a house in the UK not only as an investment but as a fallback in case of problems arising. Good news is if I keep the house the way things have been going I gain year on year virtually from house price rise anyway, so all good there. If I don't hold onto a house in the UK then I would look to lose big time I think.

So anyway, yeah with the utilities I think I could get the girl onto that once I got one, terps could be an option if not or whoever I could grab. Again your idea of a 8 week or so rental is not a bad one, something off Airbnb or similar where it's all done for you isn't a bad idea I guess.

[Steven1971]

"Longer term the house would be if I found the right girl, marriage, kids, etc as she would be wanting some reassurance that I would be staying around and somewhere for the kids, etc."

How do you propose to pay for day to day living, because £450 a month rental income won't cut it?  Run down whatever savings you have left after buying a house? Kids cost you an absolute fortune. Remember all the posts where you say Ukrainians don't earn much money? That would be the job market you would be trying to enter. Even working in a Irish pub they would need you to know some Russian.

[John Gaunt]

Good to hear you found the same with buying a house abroad For me I would not buy a house straight away, it's more of a long term situation so no rush for me. Rental with an easy in, easy out situation is best for me in the short term. Longer term the house would be if I found the right girl, marriage, kids, etc as she would be wanting some reassurance that I would be staying around and somewhere for the kids, etc.

For me keeping the house in the UK is essential as it's pretty much done up now for the rental market. Buying up houses to sell on is a bit if a different process. It's quicker (usually) than converting a house but relies on finding houses to tart up then sell on. It's not a bad way off bringing in money but there's no continuous income from it once you are doing something elsewhere. Getting people in to do the work takes a lot if the profit out of it and costs a fair bit. Plus also stamp duty on second homes can now have a bit off an impact. The house I've presently got no way would I sell, just too much hard work out in for that, I kind off want a house in the UK not only as an investment but as a fallback in case of problems arising. Good news is if I keep the house the way things have been going I gain year on year virtually from house price rise anyway, so all good there. If I don't hold onto a house in the UK then I would look to lose big time I think.

So anyway, yeah with the utilities I think I could get the girl onto that once I got one, terps could be an option if not or whoever I could grab. Again your idea of a 8 week or so rental is not a bad one, something off Airbnb or similar where it's all done for you isn't a bad idea I guess.

You gain nothing unless you sell up, so more pie in the sky, eh Trench.