Dating Ukrainian Refugees

[Daveman]

I think I have a certain type of girl in general and there tends to be only so many of them so no need to bother with a lot of girls that I don't think probably won't hit the mark in the first place, though of course I could be wrong.

As far as the patented GQ method you simply tell them the truth and give them the choice of meeting you or not because it's just a meeting and nothing more. In my mind it's similar to a first email or message only in person.

I always did VO trips as well.

You wrote that you are out of practice. That's easy to fix. You make small talk and playfully banter with ALL women with whom you come in contact everyday.  Groups, singles, it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter whether she's your type or not or whether you are attracted to her in that way. You're not trying to pick them up -- you're just sharing a few fun moments with a wide variety of women.  I've done this since high school. Every place, every time, every woman. Young, old, fat, skinny, ugly, average, gorgeous. Again you're not picking them up -- though if you actually do this and do it regularly you'll find many, many opportunities for that should you choose.
You're merely acclimating yourself to situations -- to being able to confidently approach, communicate, banter with women spontaneously without creeping them out. Sure, there are some instances where it's inappropriate or days when you you're not in the mood, and some women won't be into it, but you get the idea.

It will also razor hone your skill at recognizing varying degrees of attraction women have for you and how they display that to you. Quickly recognizing a woman's real/true/actual degree/level/percentage/whatever attraction for you may be the single most important skill you can develop and master because you don't waste time or money on women with whom you really don't have a chance -- even if they're giving you friendly attention.

So many guys waste sooooo much time chasing fantasies.

[John Gaunt]

That was my original plan for this trip it's not a bad one as such but I didn't like the potential pitfalls of taking a shine to one girl then deciding whether to go on and meet the others. That and the whole thing of a girl asking whether you are meeting other guys. I know some guys can talk well in such a situation BillyB I think was one, me I think would have trouble carrying off a good reply convincingly. I think even with a good reply done convincingly it will depend on the girl, the circumstances and she might still be cheesed off under the surface. On top of that is the off chance that a girl you like might see you with another girl wining and dining her and it mess things up with her.

So all in all I decided to switch to the method 2tallbill advocates, to choose to meet one that I'm very keen on meeting then go meet just that one, in the first instance. If the question comes up about meeting other girls then I can say honestly no - at least not if we hit it off plus if we hit it off I would be spending my whole time with that girl. In which case she would likely know it is just her I am visiting anyway. If there is no chemistry with the girl then I can end things early and pull up some other girls to date. I'm pretty sure I can get some impromptu meets over the weekend. If I have one or two I've messaged prior then that can help speed things along.


I think I have a certain type of girl in general and there tends to be only so many of them so no need to bother with a lot of girls that I don't think probably won't hit the mark in the first place, though of course I could be wrong.

Well, well. It’s out there now. Trench is actually interested in meeting guys. 

[Trenchcoat]

Well, well. It’s out there now. Trench is actually interested in meeting guys. 

Lol, I missed that Gaunty, never too late to join in the fun 

Seriously though a definite predictive text error you understand.

[Trenchcoat]

As far as the patented GQ method you simply tell them the truth and give them the choice of meeting you or not because it's just a meeting and nothing more. In my mind it's similar to a first email or message only in person.

I always did VO trips as well.

You wrote that you are out of practice. That's easy to fix. You make small talk and playfully banter with ALL women with whom you come in contact everyday.  Groups, singles, it doesn't matter. It also doesn't matter whether she's your type or not or whether you are attracted to her in that way. You're not trying to pick them up -- you're just sharing a few fun moments with a wide variety of women.  I've done this since high school. Every place, every time, every woman. Young, old, fat, skinny, ugly, average, gorgeous. Again you're not picking them up -- though if you actually do this and do it regularly you'll find many, many opportunities for that should you choose.
You're merely acclimating yourself to situations -- to being able to confidently approach, communicate, banter with women spontaneously without creeping them out. Sure, there are some instances where it's inappropriate or days when you you're not in the mood, and some women won't be into it, but you get the idea.

It will also razor hone your skill at recognizing varying degrees of attraction women have for you and how they display that to you. Quickly recognizing a woman's real/true/actual degree/level/percentage/whatever attraction for you may be the single most important skill you can develop and master because you don't waste time or money on women with whom you really don't have a chance -- even if they're giving you friendly attention.

So many guys waste sooooo much time chasing fantasies.

I get the idea of GQ's approach but I kind of feel it's too likely to give girls the hump even if they turn up and don't show it. It may turn out that one of those girls is my favourite or one that may have gotten on real well with me but called it off as a result. If I couldn't find any favourite girls then it could be worth a shot but often that's not the case but equally the favourite girls there are often only one off. Of course I know there's always the chance that you meet a girl who didn't look the best in her photos but upon meeting she looks much better and things can go well.

In reality while I'm saying I'm doing a VO it's only going to turn out that way if there is any chemistry upon meeting. I'll be moving on and meeting others if not so in theory it can be a VM trip. I know keeping strictly to a VO trip carries the high probability of meeting someone with no chemistry as it's a random thing in the past I didn't really know how to turn a VO into a VM but I think it's more doable for me these days with knowledge etc gained over time.

UK women well I see what you mean but generally I can do without. A lot of them I wouldn't want to go near with a bargepole or give them the wrong impression in terms of coming across too well with them. Most UK women just have entirely the wrong mindset and outlook. Ranges all the way from career obsessed women, to goldigging women, to women with kids, to women who are obese tattooed skanks. Most UK women are really a non starter due to the society in which they've grown up. Even if not trying to pull they can really be the type you wouldn't seriously want to encourage in any way even if to just try out some lines or whatever. I think a lot I can do online with FSW it's just the odd few that may fall by the wayside first. I think I'm picking up pace now though and getting a bit more back on the ball again with it.

[Trenchcoat]

Ok, the model girl has dropped off and as Daveman said don't get too hung up on her. I kind of expected it in a way, I could have played a bit sharper game but it probably wouldn't have mattered in the end. I'm messaging some other women and getting some messages back from some women. At the moment it's been a bit about scouting out the terrain as a fair bit has changed as to how thing were with the war so it's about navigating my way through as things are now. Places where you think are good to hear aren't necessarily so, I think I've got a good hand on things now though so hopefully should start making some progress.

[Daveman]

She weeded herself out. PERFECT!  She wasn't attracted to you at a high enough level. It's nothing.

Unless you have the movie star looks of Jumper, the charisma of GQ, the Spock ears humor of ML, or the presence of Bill -- most women will not have the high attraction to you that you must REQUIRE for yourself to proceed.  That's why dating is and always has been a numbers game.

Were I to guess, I'd say probably two, maybe three out of ten to whom I am highly attracted are also HIGHLY attracted to me. IF she's in the "meh" or "he's ok, maybe I'll meet him" category. That's an instant "Thanks for playing - NEXT!" Don't waste your time. 

As long as it is a non zero number things are just fine.   

[Steven1971]

Ok, the model girl has dropped off and as Daveman said don't get too hung up on her. I kind of expected it in a way, I could have played a bit sharper game but it probably wouldn't have mattered in the end. I'm messaging some other women and getting some messages back from some women. At the moment it's been a bit about scouting out the terrain as a fair bit has changed as to how thing were with the war so it's about navigating my way through as things are now. Places where you think are good to hear aren't necessarily so, I think I've got a good hand on things now though so hopefully should start making some progress.

I don't know what site will give you an edge over local guys, but my hunch is that Tinder is not the one.

[Trenchcoat]

I don't know what site will give you an edge over local guys, but my hunch is that Tinder is not the one.

You're right Steven, Tinder is not great for going after FSW, it's better in the FSU than in the west, it really is very atrocious in the west. I'm not saying you couldn't get a FSW with Tinder but it wouldn't be my first choice. Better of with Fdate and the rest I reckon, they let you get a bit more wordage in to get yourself across better rather than the like or dislike before you even get to message.

[Trenchcoat]

She weeded herself out. PERFECT!  She wasn't attracted to you at a high enough level. It's nothing.

Unless you have the movie star looks of Jumper, the charisma of GQ, the Spock ears humor of ML, or the presence of Bill -- most women will not have the high attraction to you that you must REQUIRE for yourself to proceed.  That's why dating is and always has been a numbers game.

Were I to guess, I'd say probably two, maybe three out of ten to whom I am highly attracted are also HIGHLY attracted to me. IF she's in the "meh" or "he's ok, maybe I'll meet him" category. That's an instant "Thanks for playing - NEXT!" Don't waste your time. 

As long as it is a non zero number things are just fine.   

You've got a lot of experience Daveman, yeah women that weed themselves out are handy in that way as it's not wasting time on a girl who isn't that into me from the get go. On the other hand I think it also shows that possibly I can do more on my profile to increase my desirability to the type of girl I want. I've re-written my profile a little tonight with that in mind, nothing untrue just more to the point where the girl will have a better idea about me and what I can offer her.

It's true some of the guys on here have some really special qualities, I have seen that over the past few years in here. I don't have anything stand out in terms of a great positive on what to offer, not yet. I have some small positives and hope that my way around all of this will see me home. I know in some ways in stark contrast to the qualities the guys you listed would put me at a disadvantage but I got what I've got (or not got) and just have to work forward from that at the moment.

[Steven1971]

You're right Steven, Tinder is not great for going after FSW, it's better in the FSU than in the west, it really is very atrocious in the west. I'm not saying you couldn't get a FSW with Tinder but it wouldn't be my first choice. Better of with Fdate and the rest I reckon, they let you get a bit more wordage in to get yourself across better rather than the like or dislike before you even get to message.

Tinder is very visual. But women who judge on looks alone you probably don't need.

[LAman]

Ok, the model girl has dropped off and as Daveman said don't get too hung up on her. I kind of expected it in a way, I could have played a bit sharper game but it probably wouldn't have mattered in the end. I'm messaging some other women and getting some messages back from some women. At the moment it's been a bit about scouting out the terrain as a fair bit has changed as to how thing were with the war so it's about navigating my way through as things are now. Places where you think are good to hear aren't necessarily so, I think I've got a good hand on things now though so hopefully should start making some progress.

You know Trench, reading your post reminds me of most of your posts on RWD, no thought about anything, just writing down what pops in your mind. Not one recent visit to FSU countries just a myriad of posts about a plan to visit Ukraine, then talking about spending a few months in Odesa, then it was your focus on Belarus , after that now it is talk of visiting Moldova. Maybe soon it will be Serbia or Georgia or maybe the 'Stans!!!!
You talk the talk.... but never walk the walk!! What's up with that dude??? I do wish you well though!!!

[John Gaunt]

You know Trench, reading your post reminds me of most of your posts on RWD, no thought about anything, just writing down what pops in your mind. Not one recent visit to FSU countries just a myriad of posts about a plan to visit Ukraine, then talking about spending a few months in Odesa, then it was your focus on Belarus , after that now it is talk of visiting Moldova. Maybe soon it will be Serbia or Georgia or maybe the 'Stans!!!!
You talk the talk.... but never walk the walk!! What's up with that dude??? I do 9wish you well though!!!

He can’t afford this, that’s why he stays put but words are cheap so it costs him nothing to expand his theories and pretence of being an ‘experienced’ fsuw gamer.

[Daveman]

Where's that confidence?  You have it. All men do. You just need to let that beast out.

All experience begins with the first experience and ends when you croak. Focus on your photos. Make the best, most attractive photos you can make of yourself with out being fake. Your initial foot through the door will occur if she is magnetically attracted to your appearance and her perception of your presence. You don't need to be Clooney. You have whatever you have and I guarantee that if you understand and accept playing the numbers game, focus ONLY on those women with whom you actually have a chance (most guys fail right here at that step) patiently weed women out, lather rinse repeat, you most certainly will have multiple opportunities.  What you do with those ops is another chapter.. But you have to get there first.


Photos first (pro portraits for a  couple in varying attire.. The rest just decent candida) , then a fun, interesting profile.  Reading sterile info about someone is boring as hell, so if you want her to actually read it, make it snap and pop. Speak more about what you are looking for in a woman than about yourself (you want her to be intrigued and curious about her new Man of Mystery, Intrigue, and Charm.. So let het learn about you slowly.. 80% of conversation her talking about herself. 20% about you). You can do this. But you do need to take the appropriate action(s) .

You've got a lot of experience Daveman, yeah women that weed themselves out are handy in that way as it's not wasting time on a girl who isn't that into me from the get go. On the other hand I think it also shows that possibly I can do more on my profile to increase my desirability to the type of girl I want. I've re-written my profile a little tonight with that in mind, nothing untrue just more to the point where the girl will have a better idea about me and what I can offer her.

It's true some of the guys on here have some really special qualities, I have seen that over the past few years in here. I don't have anything stand out in terms of a great positive on what to offer, not yet. I have some small positives and hope that my way around all of this will see me home. I know in some ways in stark contrast to the qualities the guys you listed would put me at a disadvantage but I got what I've got (or not got) and just have to work forward from that at the moment.

[ML]

  Reading sterile info about someone is boring as hell, so if you want her to actually read it, make it snap and pop. Speak more about what you are looking for in a woman than about yourself (you want her to be intrigued and curious about her new Man of Mystery, Intrigue, and Charm..

So let het learn about you slowly.. 80% of conversation her talking about herself. 20% about you).

With respect to your first paragraph, I did the opposite.
I told the women tons of info about myself, and then asked them specific questions.
By asking these questions, I wanted to avoid them coming up with questions for me.  I didn't want to answer their specific questions as that would impose too much on my time in my WMVM approach which started out with a few hundred contacts.
This was all via 6-7 email messages.
I told this huge amount of material so that when we met she would know a lot about me and would skip the KGB interrogation.
It worked great for me.

Now as to your second paragraph, I agree with it in respect to the time you actually spend with her face to face.

[LAman]

With respect to your first paragraph, I did the opposite.
I told the women tons of info about myself, and then asked them specific questions.
By asking these questions, I wanted to avoid them coming up with questions for me.  I didn't want to answer their specific questions as that would impose too much on my time in my WMVM approach which started out with a few hundred contacts.
This was all via 6-7 email messages.
I told this huge amount of material so that when we met she would know a lot about me and would skip the KGB interrogation.
It worked great for me.

Now as to your second paragraph, I agree with it in respect to the time you actually spend with her face to face.

Emails??? It's been years since I sent a meaningful email!!!
In today's market it is now 'snail' mail. Messaging through apps with 'conversations' is the norm, so it slows process to really get to know about someone. Of course, much can be gathered through a profile, pics or the  place meeting someone.

[Trenchcoat]

Emails??? It's been years since I sent a meaningful email!!!
In today's market it is now 'snail' mail. Messaging through apps with 'conversations' is the norm, so it slows process to really get to know about someone. Of course, much can be gathered through a profile, pics or the  place meeting someone.

Lol, yeah it's funny how things change, when I started out in 2016 on this venture emails were still in use, that was still the case into 2017 but increasingly that tended to change in 2018 and thereafter. Now it's pretty much all messaging on Apps, it's quicker but it tends to lock you in for a certain amount of time when it's in a back & forth where email of course can have a day or two gap before it may start to signify disinterest. I generally of course not too much time left between messages is good whatever the case in case she gets interested in some other dude.

[Trenchcoat]

With respect to your first paragraph, I did the opposite.
I told the women tons of info about myself, and then asked them specific questions.
By asking these questions, I wanted to avoid them coming up with questions for me.  I didn't want to answer their specific questions as that would impose too much on my time in my WMVM approach which started out with a few hundred contacts.
This was all via 6-7 email messages.
I told this huge amount of material so that when we met she would know a lot about me and would skip the KGB interrogation.
It worked great for me.

Now as to your second paragraph, I agree with it in respect to the time you actually spend with her face to face.

Indeed, I recently just changed my self description part to give the girl a better idea of where I'm at and in the process partly what I am looking for. Otherwise I think the girl doesn't know until I tell her and I was probably missing some interest in women who might find me more captivating if they knew up front what the deal is rather than me being another Joe they've got to ask away all that stuff on and possibly be unexcited by that.

I have written in the section of what I want in a lady also, not too long as otherwise it would all start to get a bit lengthy to read but enough I think to let her know how I am in that regard.

Stuff changes a bit in the international dating world every so often. I know Faux Pas told us when he started of in this game it was all snail mail so email was probably a massive revolution in from that in terms of communication with FSW. I think your approach might still be possible messaging on Apps but I've tried it in the past and it looks like it needs to be executed in a certain way probably quite precisely for it to work, and requires messaging huge numbers of women as not all women are on dating sites frequently but last on there days & weeks ago. For me though the current app setup with a girl or two at a time works fine for me.

[Daveman]

Probably the fastest way to success today is to run down there where the refugees are and start an agency. 

[Daveman]

For me though the current app setup with a girl or two at a time works fine for me.

If your trip is at the end of the month, this method will almost guarantee either a failed meeting or tickets with nothing to do. It would almost be better to can the chats, go there and then just say to them "hey, I'm here, want to meet?"

If you want to have the best prospect(s) ahead of time, you need to be contacting at least  5 to 10 new women per day. Even more if you can keep up.

[Trenchcoat]

If your trip is at the end of the month, this method will almost guarantee either a failed meeting or tickets with nothing to do. It would almost be better to can the chats, go there and then just say to them "hey, I'm here, want to meet?"

If you want to have the best prospect(s) ahead of time, you need to be contacting at least  5 to 10 new women per day. Even more if you can keep up.

You're probably right, in the past I have been taken with the first serious girl where she has stuck with messaging. Was this the right thing to do? probably not. I should have probably worked through more women to ensure a better match that may have led to more success. At the time though it was early days for me and although I met attractive women (above average looks) I didn't really know how these women would sit with me. The first one was into Theatre, Orchestra & Opera, I didn't mind going to find out what it was like but it wasn't really my thing though an interesting scene I guess in a way. The visit to the Carribbean Club in Kyiv I did enjoy as the Jazz night was pretty good. That was my first visit too Kyiv so quite a memorable one. Interestingly I saw an interesting photo I took of Maidan Square from back then on my Google Photos recently in black & white, a good photo better than I realized at the time I think maybe, think I'll probably send of for a print out and get it framed. It was at night when everything had gone a bit quiet and few people around so good aesthetics.

So yeah, I think apart from the physical looks I need someone who fits in with me personality wise. Chemistry is handy but can only really be gauged when there I think. But getting a good fit personality wise would be good I think and also into similar but not necessarily the same type of stuff probably that type of thing, at least her not being too at odds with what I'm into I think.

I mean back in the day getting a lot of emails from women could get hard to keep up with as they tended to have several points to reply back to. Messaging tends to be easier as often just one or maybe two points to get back to so easier to keep up. So yeah I will probably up the pace in a day or so and see what other girls are like that come up I think and see which one may best suit me.

[Daveman]

Ahhhh, I didn't see TC's trip report thread. Perhaps bump everything except the dating specific commentary over there?

[Trenchcoat]

Ahhhh, I didn't see TC's trip report thread. Perhaps bump everything except the dating specific commentary over there?

That's not a bad idea Daveman, I wouldn't mind if that was done. I know I kind of started this thread about dating refugees then it kind of digressed. I didn't mind that and it seemed that it might break the flow at the time to bring it up as your advice has been helpful to me even if our conversations slid of topic a bit.

I think the dating a Ukrainian refugee is an interesting topic in itself as plenty of them about at the moment and it seems a fluid and somewhat not so known situation compared to what we have been used to in terms of dating Ukrainian women in peacetime. So if others have contributions on that it would still be great to hear I think.