Business problems with Communist and Socialistic Economies

[ML]

There are thousands of such problems, of course,  I only address one such below.
- - - - - -
Quote from: Trenchcoat on October 28, 2024, 07:51:17 PM
Worker Ownership sounds good but the mechanics and reality of it are another matter.

First you need a capitalist to
1. Find a need,
2. Come up with a unique solution,
3. Build a marketing concept,
4. Build a factory,
5. Build the distribution network
6. Continually improve every process
7. Continually improve the product
8. Not F#ck it up

You need only need a commie
1. To steal the company
2. To end innovation for all companies
3. To end the economy because commies don't understand
super beginning basic business or economic concepts.
4. Siphon money into their own pockets.
5. The commies become the oligarchs, not the capitalists Dumb @zz.

- - - - - - - - - - -

I have been a financial consultant in FSU for 20 or so projects.

In addition to what Bill noted above . . . and actually the very first thing . . . is to determine if the project is financially feasible. 
And these determinations are, of course, only best estimates of what the  future might hold . . . and only best estimates if proper procedures applied to critical estimated input variables.

In simplist terms:
A new project or an investment in an ongoing business should only be undertaken if the project shows a probable positive Net Present Value when all projected inflows and outflow of cash are discounted back to the present using a risk adjusted cost of capital.

Huge problem in Soviet days and still being practiced in  some instances in FSU as the managers say:  What is this 'cost of capital' idea?

'Cost of capital' is the weighted average of interest rate on borrowed money and desired rate of return on equity money invested.

But in Soviet times there was no cost of borrowed money.  If Soviet  leaders wanted to build something . . . the money was provided at no cost and there was no concept of earning a return on the money.  Earning a return would be the disgusting thing that only greedy capitalists would be trying to do.  Projects that were approved in  the 5 year plans, etc. were just done without any regard to financing costs !!!

Because of this past history of ignoring financial costs . . . it is still hard for even current day managers in FSU to 'wrap their head' around the idea of comming up with best estimates of cost of capital. 

And obviously the USA Investment Trusts, etc., that I work for in evaluating whether or not to invest in business projects in FSU are not even going to consider a project unless we can estimate a positive Net Present Value with acceptable probabilities.

The war has, however, destroyed many of the FSU projects we did invest in.
This is where diversification plays a role.  This investment money is spread all around the world.

There are, of course, more and more younger FSU managers who have gotten business degrees in western schools and even in FSU business schools that have fully transitioned to western capitalistic course curriculums (and I have been involved in helping FSU universities with this also).

Socialistic and worker owned enterprises also are handicapped by these problems in addressing financial costs and they are loath to even think about cost of capital as that involves showing profits . . . which is a disgusting idea that only greedy capitalists desire.

[krimster2]

let the economic system without sin cast the first stone....

vulture capitalists
suppressing unions through violence
recessions, depressions
outsourcing
suppression of wages to favor huge income inequality
child labor
the financialization of EVERYTHING (Hedge Fund/Health Insurance like United HealthCare)
political corruption
waste and inefficiency

there were two 19th century writers to document this
Charles Dickens
Karl Marx

socialism and communism GREW out of worker anger and frustration with the plutocracy and keepitalism
you all had a centrally planned economy in WWII and ya'll did just fine
read about the "War Production Board" it manged the entire economy in WWII
in just 4 years this Federal Organization, created the America you were born into
it ended in 1945, and America's been goin downhill ever since

in capitalism, money dominates
in socialism, people dominates

viva la revolution, cuz it's coming whether you MFers like it or not
no army on earth can stop an idea whose time has come

guess what's coming?
it ain't BeeFarmer watching Perter Zeihan, that's fer sure!!!

[olgac]

yes every time and place where the communism was actually tried turned into a complete disaster.
And of course the country had to become totalitarian spying on its own citizens, arresting and killing the,
and basically FORCING them to like communism! Because nobody does like communism naturally.
People generally get pissed off when someone who is lazy and makes wrong choices in life is entitled
to the same living standard as someone who works hard, is frugal and responsible.

And in US too people including myself get pissed off about student loan forgiveness, mortgagee forgiveness
and so on. Why would a person who went to a state school, worked through college and earned a degree
that can land him an actual job has to subsidize someone's 200K degree in English literature with their taxes?

So no after growing up under communism I have a strong allergy to all this BS.
And I do unfderstand the reason for labor unions and social programs. But Marxism? Sorry, krim, big NO

[ML]

in capitalism, money dominates
in socialism, people dominates

Sure . . . and when we go to socialism, and all the problems I noted when cost of financing and profit are ignored . . . all will collapse like as happened to SU.

[olgac]

Sure . . . and when we go to socialism, and all the problems I noted when cost of financing and profit are ignored . . . all will collapse like as happened to SU.

Well or it might keep going for decades and keep suppressing people like in North Korea

[2tallbill]

Well or it might keep going for decades and keep suppressing people like in North Korea

It has meant the death of hundreds of millions of people. How many did Mao with his total
incompetence kill? How many did Pol Pots incompetence kill? How many did Lenin's incompetence
kill? How many did corruption kill? How many oligarchs came from Communism/socialism?

Capitalism has faults ESPECIALLY in the 19th Century. When did the last 12 year old child work in
a factory? Zero since the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938?

[2tallbill]

in capitalism, money dominates
in socialism, people dominates

viva la revolution, cuz it's coming whether you MFers like it or not
no army on earth can stop an idea whose time has come

guess what's coming?

In socialism people with guns kill the people, steal their stuff then run it into the ground.

You want to pretend Charles Dickens made documentaries? Tell me how is Venezuela doing?
what did they do to their people or their wealth or their economy? How many starved to death?

Why has it failed every time it's been tried? Every single time. You can name programs, not an
economy and you can name ZERO that have stood ANY test of time.

[krimster2]

you want to pretend Charles Dickens made documentaries?"

he documented working class life rather well in the medium that was available

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/16-year-old-boy-dies-accident-mississippi-poultry-plant-rcna94963
children die all the time in this economy, it's "overhead"

all communists are like Mao and Stalin?
I guess all men are like Ted Bundy and Charles Manson?

just get rid of the ownership class and everything they suck out of the economy for themselves
and the people become the owners
democracy does not equal dictatorship
especially when you make the economy democratic

BEEL, yur ideas are old and tired, and are just right wing reaactionary fear mongering to continue the status quo
even freakin Harry Truman says so

[Boethius]

I have no issue with forgiving student debt. IMHO, education should be state funded.

[ML]

and the people become the owners

But the people will need to hire experts at capitalistc business methods, if their business is to become successful and endure. 

Then the 'people' will realize they have to give stock ownership to the experts in order to keep them and soon the experts will have majority or complete control and . . .

OMG it will be a 'back to the future' capitalistic economy.

[2tallbill]

there were two 19th century writers to document this
Charles Dickens
Karl Marx

Document does not mean what you think/say it means

Dickens dead in 1870 relevance in 2024? Zero
Marx dead in 1883 relevance in 2024? Zero
Robert Mugabe, dead in 2019 relevance in 2024? 100%
Hugo Chávez dead in 2013 relevance in 2024? 100%
Nicolás Maduro still alive relevance in 2024? 100%
Fidel Castro dead in 2016 relevance in 2024? 100%

100% of the time it fails.

[krimster2]

there's always an educated and trained "managerial" class whether socialist or capitalist...

[krimster2]

christ died in AD 34, mohammed in 632,  relevance to today?

my medals....
commies are all jews like me
we're gonna replace you BEEL
it's ALREADY been decided

Kamala and her Husband, are the Trojan Horse to open the gate
hahaha

it's too late BEEL

[olgac]

I have no issue with forgiving student debt. IMHO, education should be state funded.

But it wasn't, and I don't think it's fair to make people who have already paid theirs off subsidize
people who might have driven flashier cars or had bigger houses than the first group and still
have debt.

For me it's similar to "raskulachivanie" in early Soviet Union where the peasants (kulaki) who worked
hard, made sacrifices and simply had a nicer house and things were forced to give it all away
to those who had less.

Now in the future I would agree to a public higher education system paid by government but
it's not fair now to those who have paid already being hard working and responsible to forgive
debt of those who enjoyed their life more and haven't paid especially if they went to 50K/year
colleges instead of the state schools.

[olgac]

Well yes Krim, You do have a point that usually everything progressive is called socialism by the political right.
The Scandinavian countries for example can be defined as socialist and they don't oppress millions of people.
I was talking for about Marxism/Communism than socialism

[2tallbill]

I have no issue with forgiving student debt. IMHO, education should be state funded.

What is there to stop tuition from being $1 million per student per year?

Stanford University had more administrative staff and faculty than it did students. Specifically,
there were 15,750 administrators, 2,288 faculty members, and 16,937 students. The paid help
of 18,038 (administrators plus faculty)

[2tallbill]

christ died in AD 34, mohammed in 632,  relevance to today?

ZERO with Communist and Socialistic Economies.
However recent Communist and Socialistic Economies have something to do with
Communist and Socialistic Economies. Imagine that.

[2tallbill]

Well yes Krim, You do have a point that usually everything progressive is called socialism by the political right.

So what?

He is advocating total socialism, not some program. He doesn't come here, shout everyone down on
every single thread on every single post Advocating for government schools or cheese, etc. He is here
saying we need to end capitalism. He falsely claims that the right wants to control everyone when that
is exactly what the left wants to do.

He is a random unrelated socialist post generator, they don't need bots if they have a Krimster

[olgac]

Yes political left does want to control literally everything. They love government control!
Political right currently became more moralistic and religious and they also want to control
everything even abortions!

I think I will stay in the center Thank You

[krimster2]

didn't you study Marx in yur Pioneer class when you were white and fluffy?

Marx is REALLY simple
from local Unions to a single National Union, from National Union to National political party
I WANT A labor party in the USA, it's what the democrats are supposed to be

the only people who are gonna survive the future, are those who prepare for it, instead of react to it
BEEL reacts
I prepare


so BEEL, christianity and islam, have no relevance to today's problems
how profoundly...wrong you are

yur not really showing any thought here, just proaganda blurbs from faux gnus
like debating a parrot...awk...socialism is bad...keepitalism is good...awk...Hello...cracker?
cuz the keepitalist owned media told you so, and you msust obey your masters

viva libertad!!!
phuque all the masters
gimme my Hammer and sickle to promote worker solidarity between factory and farms
we SHALL overcome, and we already are!!!

nothin you can do BEEL
the time has come
Trump made this happen much faster than it normally would've
he sped up our time table by 10 years

[2tallbill]

there's always an educated and trained "managerial" class whether socialist or capitalist...

The capitalist managerial class can't throw you into prison or kill you if you don't obey them
or if you publicly or privately disagree with them.

[olgac]

The capitalist managerial class can't throw you into prison or kill you if you don't obey them
or if you publicly or privately disagree with them.

100%
But currently they are too much serving to religious right
and a woman who wants to have an abortion can be arrested.
A woman can die from miscarriage because of a barbaric middle ages law
and it had happened.

[2tallbill]

Yes political left does want to control literally everything. They love government control!
Political right currently became more moralistic and religious and they also want to control
everything even abortions!

I think I will stay in the center Thank You

They gave the power over to the States, in California you can have an abortion at 9 months
for any reason because that's what the voters want. In other states the voters decided that
you can't.

What is the center view when you can be censored or excluded or the banks can refuse to do
business with you? I am not arguing that your view is less important than mine. I am arguing
that the left will not allow any views other than their own.

[ML]

Political right currently became more moralistic and religious and they also want to control everything even abortions!

I am politically right . . . and I do want to control abortions.

But my 'control' would be for more abortions . . . within select groups . . . and even more . . . controlling conceptions . . . within select groups . . . and no, not  based on religion, ethnicity, etc.

Our society is being 'dumbed down.'

[olgac]

I am politically right . . . and I do want to control abortions.

But my 'control' would be for more abortions . . . within select groups . . . and even more . . . controlling conceptions . . . within select groups . . . and no, not  based on religion, ethnicity, etc.

Our society is being 'dumbed down.'

That's my view as well. I think in case of unfit  drugged single mothers abortions and for sure contraception should be paid by the government!
the taxpayers would save a great deal of money!

Bill: turning the decision to the states basically took away womens rights on a federal level.
As a result young women like my friend are afraid to move now to these states. I mean she is in her
30s, the risk of birth abnormalities will be high by the time she is pregnant.
She wants an option for a late term abortion in case birth efects are determined at 16-17 weeks.
The main reason for late term abortions is the fact they can only test for down syndrome and birth defects
with amnio test done after week 16.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/treatment-tests-and-therapies/amniocentesis#:~:text=An%20amniocentesis%20is%20offered%20between,greater%20risk%20for%20birth%20defects.

She also doesn't want to DIE when having a miscarriage!
http://www.yahoo.com/news/pregnant-teenager-died-trying-care-153955021.html
^ and I see these stories almost every day on Yahoo news!
Yep the republican party has thrown us back to the stone age