Smaller cities

[DKMM]

Some of you may know that my 1st trip to the motherland involved Moscow & St. Petersburg.  It was a great trip but perhaps not very successful (jury is still out).

I'm now being persuaded to go to Smolensk, a 300k-ish city near the border of Belarus.  Anybody ever been there?

I was told that going to these out-of-the-way places is a better bet for finding available RW.  Not saying that the big cities didn't have them but... it would be interesting to hear comparisons from some guys on here that have done the big city thing and also gone provincial.  This city does not appear to have an agency.  Oh and it would be in early December so the likelihood of being the only American guy in town is fairly high.  I have the connection to find ladies there, but I wonder if all the good girls have flocked to the big cities...

Any thoughts?

[Albert]

I haven't been there, but I had a long term affair with a gal who was born and raised there.  She moved to St. Pete after finishing her medical schooling.  She was a very nice gal, but it is all just luck what each gal is like.

I think any of us can have better chances of finding appropriate gals in these smaller cities, but there are some tradeoffs.

On the one hand, the gals haven't been visited by many guys, haven't been spoiled by big spending foreigners, etc.  This makes them perhaps less picky and more likely to go for any individual guy.

But on the other hand, it would be hard to line up what I think is the necessary number to visit in any one city which is at least 10.  And if you could line up this number, they would be sure to see you out and about with the other gals which would kill your relationship with the "see'ers."

So to go the small city route, you would have to visit several of these smaller cities on each trip.  The travel time would take a big hunk out of your total time available.

Now the above relates to those of us who are going to do the WMVM routine.  For those who are willing to go the WOVO route, then some of these problems are mitigated . . . . only to be replaced with the much larger problem of a completely wasted trip.

[CaptB]

My advice is......don't go to several cities per trip......pick one. Smolensk is old, industrial.....not too attractive. Although there may be many nice RW in such a city.......my opinion is....there are many nice RW in all cities. Personally.....I chose a city that I would look forward to visiting again and again. Why? Because if you marry an RW.......you will use a significant amount of travel/vacation time visiting there to see friends and relatives. Not too enjoyable.....if you dread going there. My wife's city of Stavropol, five hours from the Black Sea is very clean, friendly......and was voted "best city parks" in all of Russia several years ago. Stavropol has about 440,000 people (medium-sized by Russian standards). I have visited Samara......very beautiful place of almost 1,000,000 people......but "feels" much smaller than my wife's city. Samara has a very wonderful beach on the Volga river. Many boats....and even cruise ships passing by. Tons of beautiful women......a nice place.
Tver was my first Russian city......except for "battling" agencies....of late.....it is easy to get around. Lots of renovation going on since my first trip there in 2001. My favorite activity was the evening boat ride......bring your own "piva". If you like "Gods country".......ie Northern Michigan, Minnesota.....Canada......you would like Yoshkar Ola in the Mariel Republic.......about 500 miles east of Moscow. Nice nature.....population around 220,000. A good agency there is MAKSIM's. Nice place.
I really like the medium-sized cities the best. St. Pete & Moscow are nice for a visit.....but most of the "real" Russia resides outside these two cities.

Choose a city you "like".......then find a woman there.

Capt B

[Turboguy]

I think I have heard little opposition to the idea that it is easier to find a good girl in the smaller cities than Moscow, Kiev and St Petersburg.  8 or 10 years ago that was not the case.   

I think the same thing that happened to Moscow and the others will happen sometime soon to the smaller, popular cities,  Tver for one.  You see guy after guy heading for Tver.   When I was bouncing around on my tour in Ukraine I met lots of Americans gal hunting on their own in the same cities.   A week after we were leaving those cities AFA was coming through with another tour.

On my tour Dneper was the nicest city on the tour.  The atmosphere reminded me of San Diego or San Antonio.   I met one gal who lived there and was living a good life.  I really had to question if she would be happy leaving a beautiful, flourishing active city like that to live where I do.   I also have to say the gals I met there were to prettiest of my tour but seemed less flexable on men.   They have a nice life, they can afford to be choosy.  Yes, I would like to have a nice city to visit when I went back but to me it is far more important to find a gal I am happy with and I think it is harder that in the more affluent, nicer cities.   Zap which reminded me of Gary Indiana had girls who were much more receptive.

I sometimes think the longer we are at this the harder it is to find someone we are happy with.  I think we get pickier as we learn more about what is available.  I think the same thing applies to the gals.   The smoking hot ones that meet new guys every time the wind blows know they have a choice and don't have to settle for a schmuck.  The ones who have just joined an agency or those where it is harder to travel too or off the beaten path might be quite happy if they can just meet one good guy who wants them and is good husband material.   

Since you have a good connection I would think Smolensk would be a good choice.  It might even be worth forgetting about places like Tver which has good agency's but seem to be getting a lot of traffic and going a few places like Nizhney Novogorod, Volgograd which is a good sized place but I never hear of anyone going there or over in the Urals, Perm, Omsk, Kazan, Novisbirsk.   I myself will be just pulling out over the Atlantic a week from now heading for Kurgan.

[SANDRO43]

TurboNapoleon, why don't you take a few years off and do a Forrest Gump in the FSU ? You would be running through the smallest, hitherto untouched and unspoiled small cities, and meet a lot of wide-eyed FSUW. You might start from Vladivostok and work you way westwards, I'll buy you a dinner when you eventually reach Italy, with a herd of FSUW following you (we are used to invasions here) .

[Turboguy]

I feel like I already am Sandro.  I am back this time for not much longer than it takes to do laundry and cash some paychecks.

Vlad may be December.   Can I head for Italy backwards.  Anyone who visits a site and sees an FSU woman named Josephine, let me know.  Do they have borsch in Italy?   Thanks for the invite.  When I get there I will let you know.

[SANDRO43]

Do they have borsch in Italy?

Are you joking ? We're civilised here (though our minestrone di verdure might bear a distant resemblance to it; it has a wider variety of veggies in it, though). Concerning Joséphine, I thought you had dropped her. Having second thoughts ? I saw the photo below on some site for Martinican MOBs, she looks more expensive than a FSUW for clothes-hunger .

[Bruce]

If I were in your shoes, with connections to help you meet girls,  I'd give Smolensk a try.  If you travel on the road nobody else is on, you might just happen to find a ripe, un-picked blueberry patch with a choice of which blueberry you want to take home with you.

[Gator]

A man living in a small city and wanting a housewife should look to the small towns.  The “Big City” women can be rather demanding and have trouble living where their neighbors are squirrels.

Everyone is different, however, and I do not like small cities for two reasons:

1.   I do not consider myself a snob, yet I am much happier with educated and sophisticated women.  Such are not found in the smaller towns.  The Moscow ladies frequently refer to the small city women as “village girls”.  A number of men have met wonderful wives from the smaller cities, and my comment can be a sore point.  If the men are happy, fine!  I just know that I do not have the years for “My Fair Lady” to develop. 
2.   I like women who are challenges, meaning that she will not leave FSU until she finds a man who proves he is Mr. Right and wins her heart.  Such women are usually found in the big cities and have plenty of dates, with FSU men as well as Western men.

Turbo, DP is a nice Ukraine city; however, if it reminded you of San Diego I must assume you came there from Lugansk.

[Turboguy]

I think a factor to look at in choosing destinations is where you live.  If you live in Manhatten both you and the gal are going to be happier if you find a big city gal.   If you live in Pella Ia or Beaver Falls PA, you might find your match better in a small town although my former fiancee came from a city of 2 million and loved it here.

I guess the amount of challenge someone wants to face is also an individual thing.  Personally I am awful tired of writing letters and making trips to try to find the one and am content with less challenge. 

I think eduction and sophistication are also an individual thing.  I like education but sophistication is not a criteria with me.  In fact it is something I am content to avoid.  I am sort of a down to earth guy and don't want a gal who has to stay in 5 star hotels and fly first class.   Heck, just like the comedian who has his skits linked here somewhere, I don't mind a gal with a little plow experience.

Well, actually DP was sandwiched between Lugansk and smoky Zap.  I guess that is enough said.   Actually I was not referring to a physical resemblance as I was the quality of the lifestyle SD and SA offer  DP had a really pretty walk by the river and a big square closed off to traffic with great restaurants,  free concerts, and fireworks every time you turned around.  It seemed like the people there enjoyed life there and that it was an active vibrant city.  If I had to live somewhere in Ukraine, that would be the city.

[Gator]

worldly wise, connoisseur of life's finer facets, etc.  = sophisticated

5-star hotel, first class air = noveaux riche or idiot with GTG.

[Turboguy]

A connoisseur of life's finer facets

Life's finer facets 

1.  5 star hotels
2.  First Class seating
3.  $ 400.00 wine
4.  Designer clothes from the finest shops for her, WalMart for you.
5.  Mercedes for her, old pickup truck for you.
6.  Chateau on the Rivera for summer escapes you can come to if you will cook the meals.

Wise = Knowing which guys can give her the above.

Worldly =  Chateau on Rivera,  European cruises,  waterfront mansion in Costa Rica, Safari in Africa, vacation in Sri Lanka

[DKMM]

Ahh, an explosion of activity on my thread, I love it!  Just in time too because I'm about to make a decision.  If you read my TR you'd know the problems I was having with my girl from the first trip (still am not getting sufficient communication) but a good start to go back and try the "real Russia".  So within a week I will know if I'm going to Smolensk or not.

I see the point of wanting a nice city to return to.  But like TG said, its not really that big of a deal when compared to finding the right lady.  And I'd still fly into Moscow everytime (its about 220 km away) so its not like I'm going to Siberia (sorry CatzenM).

I live in the nicest 1-2 million sized city in America so I think it would be easy for a gal from whereever to adjust and I have yet to meet anyone that didn't think this is at least one of the best places to live in the world.  In fact, a Ukrainian girl I just met here (who threatens to end my future travel plans) thinks i'm crazy to even want to visit Russia again when I live in a place like this.  I digress but I'm not worried about her liking where we live.... no where in Russia even compares.

Gator, you and I think alike in many respects.  The challenge thing is tough for me because so far I'm finding that I can get a more attractive young (low-mid 20's) AW than RW to want to marry me.  I think that is mostly because I have just barely started my search though because I met the best girls, I just could not convince them of me (yet).  But I'm sure not looking for a girl looking to get out, just one that is open to it.

TG, make it a 4 star hotel and she can have 4 of those 6 (not 2 and 3)as long as she's the one cooking in the Chateau...

[Voyageur]

DKMN,

I'll second CaptB's report about a smaller city like Stavropol.  My wife is also from there and I must tell you that I was extremely impressed by this city each time I visited there. We are going back there for Christmas and the New Years and I am looking forward to it very much. Although I have also been to Moscow and St. Petersburg, I really prefer a smaller Russian city like Stavropol and Krasnodar. The only problem is that these cities are rather hard to reach - you have to make tricky transfers between Moscow airports.

[CaptB]

Voyageur,

If you are going back to Stavropol  at Christmas time.......my wife is looking for a "mule" for a few gifts to be sent. We will be going back late spring....early Summer.........and can return the favor.

Capt B

[jb]

I think it's a myth that women from smaller cities make better wives. 

I think the best wife is the one which is completely committed to her marriage and her husband.  Regardless of where you find her, if she is truly in love with you, she will adapt to your city/town.  My wife is a Moscovichka, (city of 13 million?), Corpus Christi is a city of .3 million.  At first she was thinking, "Village", now that she lives here and drives her own car, she thinks in terms of "no traffic jams", and  "I can be anyplace in town in 20 minutes", just like the rest of us. 

During my wife's last trip to Russia to visit family and friends, she told me honestly that she was ready to "come home" after 3 days.  She cannot imagine living with all that traffic and pollution ever again.  She doesn't miss the cold and snow, muddy streets without a proper sidewalk, dirty shoes that constantly need cleaning, to say nothing of the outragously high prices on everything. 

Before the newbie talks himself out of a perfectly good woman just because she lives in a large city, consider that the Russian woman who really loves her husband has been known to follow him into exile in Siberia.  A good woman is wherever you find her.

[Albert]

 . . . . yet I am much happier with educated and sophisticated women.  Such are not found in the smaller towns.  The Moscow ladies frequently refer to the small city women as “village girls”. 

- - - - -

It is simply not true that educated and sophisticated women are not found in smaller towns.  This is true in FSU just as in the west.

Sure I know that big city gals in FSU refer to others as village girls, but that does not change the fact that there are really educated and sophisticated gals in the small towns.

Are there uneducated and non-sophisticated women in the small towns??  Sure there are, just same as are the fish seller gals, etc., in Moscow.

Educated and sophisticated women are in every town in FSU.  Sure there are more of them in the larger cities because there are more women in total in the larger cities.

[Gator]

Yes, Albert, one can find an educated and sophisticated woman in small cities.  But the percentage as well as total number is much smaller.

Albert, what are your standards?  Just because a woman is educated does not make her sophisticated.  And what is a small city?

When I posted, this thread was talking about Smolensk, not Kharkov or the like.  Kharkov is not a small city and has some prominent universities.  I met a sophisticated woman there, a highly educated woman who during Soviet days modeled the trajectory of nuclear missiles and now quotes Oscar Wilde and relishes a Mojito.   Yet, I met a Kharkov MD who had ghastly table manners – a real turn off.

For sure Dnepropetrovsk has some sophisticated women, yet one woman there emailed me some risqué photos.  Not my style.  After three days of walking around Zaporozhye, I would say it has none (one million pop.).  And one of the most sophisticated women I have known in my life lives in Chelyabinsk, an unlikely statement if you have walked around that city. 

But no city compares with Moscow (the women who were born there, not moved there).  I will avoid diverting this into a Moscow woman vs. village girl argument by stopping here.