Adult chidren

[BC]

Sohkay,

Have teenage kids yourself?..  One that went through or is currently going through an adjustment to a new country? How about divorce of his/her parents and a long separation from a parent?  Maybe all three factors together?

Rose has simply asked some questions and given some background (maybe too much) when prompted.  Her concerns are pretty normal for any parent.  Being undecided at that age does not necessarily mean that her son is immature.  Some take a bit longer to finally find their path in life.  I was one of those that took a bit longer.

btw when quoting someone from another post it's always a good idea to post the link so that others can see the post in it's entirety and quote in full context.  Here's the link:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=2764.msg52962#msg52962

There *may* be more than meets the eye with a quick glance.

[Sohkay]

BC,
Good point. Here are the remaining words from Rose's post.

"Speaking seriously, overbuying sometimes is a sign of hidden depression, maybe this is the way she tries to overcome difficulties of the adjusting to the new life."

And here we see evidence of rationalization. Being a victim. Much in the same way that she attributes blame for her bad marriage to her mother.

Regarding use of the word "immaturity"...you seem to be of the school that blames others and phenomena in one's life as opposed to actual personal accountability. A game addicted, underemployed 19 year old is...immature. A woman who overspends on clothes for eight years is probably a bit immature also. And you are absolutely right...every person develops at their own pace.

I have no teenagers, but spent ten years of my professional life working with hundreds of them, in situations ranging from technical rock climbing and wilderness survival to minimum security institutions. I am definitely qualified to comment.

Sohkay

[BillyB]

Rose,

Here's a quote written on this forum:

“Whether I shall be unfortunate depends also on others; whether I shall be unhappy depends only on myself.”
(Ivan Panin, 1855-1942)

It's starting to sound to me that your husband is not so tight with money and allowed you to spend LOTS of it. Is it his fault you haven't shown financial responsibility and he is turning off the flow? Rose, if my finacee came to me and started spending big dollars on a lifetime supply of clothes, and then asked me if she could bring over her relatives(she has no son), I'd probably say "no" as I would still question her motives for marrying me. Could your son be paying the price in some way for your actions? Knowing that you overspend which is a fault of yours, have you apologized to your husband? Smoothing out relations with your husband can be a blessing for your son.

[START2]

Rose,
  I've never been one to come on this forum and offer advice about how someone else should lead their life or pursue their romantic choices. Your post has caught my attention and I would like to express my point-of-view.
  I am in the pro-military camp. I come from a family of warriors who found and experienced great honor in serving our country. My grandfather actually fought for the Germans in WWI. He served his country proudly albeit on a losing side. He immigrated to this country after the war and worked on the railroad in Pa. He lived till 104 yrs. old. Always a proud and loyal man. His father also served in the military. My father spent 36 yrs. in the Marine Corps. He enlisted at 17 yrs. old and was on Iwo Jima, served in Korea, 3 tours in Viet Nam and at 80 yrs. old still loves his country. My brother also served in the Marines and Viet Nam carries that badge of honor with him. I was drafted in and served my 2 yrs. proudly. I did not go to war and spent most of my time in Europe but twice we were loaded up and ready to go to Israel. This was in the early 70's. Each time we were oredered to stand down. However, I had no reservations to fight if my country needed me. Military life was not for me, so when my time was up I worked in civilian life.
   I have served my country and I have 2 sons so I have the right to express an opinion about on this subject.
   Rose, contrary to what many believe, we have the best trained and equipped military in the world. There is a job for everyone who joins and they will be placed in  an arera of expertise according to his/her ability. If your son so chooses he can even have a guaranteed MOS. I'm sure there will be jobs that may not be available to him because of his citizenship status. It has to do with security issues. Not to worry, our military will find something for him.
   I cannot say the military will teach him to be a man. It will give him the tools to learn to be a man. They will teach him about pride and honor and respect. It all depends on what's in his heart.
  No, the military and life in the military is not perfect and is not for everyone. It's not a life time committment, but it can be the start of something very significant in his life. It will help to give him direction in his life.
   I know you're concerned for his safety. What parent and especially a mother wouldn't be? Our history as a world has always been times of conflict. Our world today is in a great crisis. Many around the world do not like America and think we should mind our own business. That's a great concept but to remain strong and free we need to protect our interests and those who cannot protect themselves. We fight an enemy today that has no respect for human life. They are cowards and should be stopped. The world demands we(America) play by the rules of war, while they desire and give the very people that want to destroy us every protection under civil law. Woops, back to topic. I didn't want to go there, but I wrote it and will let it stand.
  Some here have noted that this may not be the best time to be in the military. Maybe they meant that the only time to serve their country is when there is peace. Uhuh. To them I say that I have more respect for the kids today that knowingly volunteer to protect this country when the chance is high that harm could come to them. These are the 18-19-20 yr. old boys/girls that I used to say what is our young society coming to. To them I say thank you. Thank you for protecting my family and way of life the best you know how. You are greatly blessed and honored in our home each day. There are many unknown names and faces. I include those who serve our country here at home. Just because they are not in a war zone, does not mean they deserve less honor. They train just as hard to keep us free and safe. I always liked the old saying" Freedom Does Not Come Free" .  There is always a cost.
  Just a side note. I have a friend in Ukr. who would love to be in the American military. He spent 9 months with the Ukr. military in Iraq. He was in awe of our American G.I.'s. Made friends with many of our boys. It's his dream and wish to come here and join. I don't know if it's possible.He wrote just the other day to ask if America takes foreign nationals. BTW, for his service in Iraq for Ukr. do you know how much he was paid? Not one red kopeck. I was appalled. For 9 months Ukr. paid him nothing. He loves his country but only desires being treated fair.
  To end this, I want to say that as in life, life is not always fair and neither is the military perfect, but the doors of opportunity for a better life and a new direction are wide open for your son.  In my opinion Rose, it would be an honorable decision for you to allow your son and for your son to take this step toward becoming a useful and viable human being.
  I will send you a PM on something else you mentioned.
  P.S.  I re-read what I wrote and for those of you wondering, I was never or am not a recruiter for the U.S. Armed Services.  
  
  

[BC]

BC,
Good point. Here are the remaining words from Rose's post.

"Speaking seriously, overbuying sometimes is a sign of hidden depression, maybe this is the way she tries to overcome difficulties of the adjusting to the new life."

And here we see evidence of rationalization. Being a victim. Much in the same way that she attributes blame for her bad marriage to her mother.

Regarding use of the word "immaturity"...you seem to be of the school that blames others and phenomena in one's life as opposed to actual personal accountability. A game addicted, underemployed 19 year old is...immature. A woman who overspends on clothes for eight years is probably a bit immature also. And you are absolutely right...every person develops at their own pace.

I have no teenagers, but spent ten years of my professional life working with hundreds of them, in situations ranging from technical rock climbing and wilderness survival to minimum security institutions. I am definitely qualified to comment.

Sohkay

Sohkay,

Are you somehow 'close' to Rose's personal situation?  I just don't see how you can draw such conclusions based on what little is posted here.

Or maybe just 'trigger happy'?..  I can only respond to your remarks about my 'school of thought' regarding accountability and let you know that you missed the barn. Did I mention accountability?

I am sure your experience with kids has given you good insight, but I assure you that your experience will never allow you to fully understand what goes through a parents mind when a child is born, grows up or leaves the 'nest'.. 

You can only keep guessing.. Hopefully, someday, you will be able to experience first hand.

[Sohkay]

BC,
Remember, Rose chose to add in the details of her marriage and buying habits. When you put it out there, it's open season for commentary. It's notable that she lets out details of marital discord, in more than one post, and then wants silence on the issue...right after she has had her say. It's very possible that the marital discord and difficulty with the son share some common elements.

Instead of accountability, let's instead say responsibility for one's existence. That should be a little clearer.

And thank you for your well-wishing...maybe I will be able to experience all or some of the child-rearing process. I'm really hoping for it.

[Gator]

Great words BC in all your posts.

Can we give Rose’s marital situation a rest as she requested and concentrate on the son?

Rose is going through a life passage, probably more than one.  We have a choice – respect her through this troubling period or run her off.  Unlike RWG I see hardly any women posters at RWD and frankly I miss their perspective.

[Admin]

Great words BC in all your posts.

Can we give Rose’s marital situation a rest as she requested and concentrate on the son?

Rose is going through a life passage, probably more than one.  We have a choice – respect her through this troubling period or run her off.  Unlike RWG I see hardly any women posters at RWD and frankly I miss their perspective.

Actually, we have quite a few female members. Rose, M&M, dostogirl, Wild Orchid, Elen, OlgaS, LenaC, RussianGal, RedHairedGirl, a fiance, and several others who have not posted in a while - and I have probably missed some (apologies, in advance if I missed anyone!)

I agree, their perspective is worthwhile and I hope they become more 'vocal'.

- Dan

[BC]

So, back to my main question. I know I can influence his decision, but will it be the right thing to do?

Rose,

For many years we told our kids what to do, how to do it, scolded when they got it wrong and praised when they got it right.. It was our duty as responsible parents for the upbringing and safety of our children.

At some point though, the responsibilities of a parent ends with an abrupt blow.   I'll be the first to agree it's tough, the world as you know it is upside down.. but insisting on taking responsibility for your son's actions a this point is wrong. 

On reflection, the situation you described with the Army recruiter at the mall might be a 'sign'.  You might find that this was simply a way he could express himself in some manner without having you at his side.  Maybe with this act he's just trying to say 'Mom.. I'm ready..' ?

I can remember rebelling against my parents any way I could.. It was like if they said A, I was sure to do B.

Sure, let him know you are worried.. but as hard as it is I think you should accept that from this point on you are no longer responsible for his actions.

The moment he truly becomes a man.. -is the moment you let go.

You stated: "Tomorrow we are going to talk to the people in Coast Guard again.."

My suggestion: let him go alone..

[Bruno]

For many years we told our kids what to do, how to do it, scolded when they got it wrong and praised when they got it right.. It was our duty as responsible parents for the upbringing and safety of our children.

Don't forget that only recently the son of Rose is back in US with his mother... He was away during 5 year... Rose was not with him during the puberty crisis... and who know how he was educated in Russia... Since in Russia, it is the "function" of mother to guide children on the difficult way to adulthood...

At some point though, the responsibilities of a parent ends with an abrupt blow.   I'll be the first to agree it's tough, the world as you know it is upside down.. but insisting on taking responsibility for your son's actions a this point is wrong.

 

A russian women try always to protect children like a mother wolf... and maybe in the case of Rose, she is too much protective because of the long previous separation...

Rose, you can advice your son but never push him to choose the way you wish... it is his life and he need to learn be responsible... If he choose the army and it is not working, it is his choose and responsability... if you influence him to choose your way and that all go wrong, he will think that you are responsible for the misluck and will never learn...

[BC]

Don't forget that only recently the son of Rose is back in US with his mother... He was away during 5 year... Rose was not with him during the puberty crisis... and who know how he was educated in Russia... Since in Russia, it is the "function" of mother to guide children on the difficult way to adulthood...

Bruno,

I'm pretty sure Rose left her son in quite capable hands and was following along and in contact the whole way through. Although maybe not traditionally 'ideal', it's communication that counts.  Is a bit wierd, but I sometimes have more quality 'talks' with my son via IM than when he was living here.  Having to think before you type is a real benefit of this new technology.

[LenaC]

Dear, Rose!
I feel for you. From my inborn talent, education in psychology and personal experience I can suggest next:
 Let me give you some story first.
1.5 years ago I met a young Russian boy that I have met at my sushi restaurant working as a waiter We became buddies and always talked when I came to eat my sushi. He was a very polite and considerate boy. He told me that his mom is divorced with his dad and that his step father ( Russian too) does not treat her right. He told me that he wants to join the army because it will help his mom to have more financial independence from her husband and that it will help him to feel like a "real man" ( Some psychology: A boy that exposed to a situation where he sees his mom being unprotected and mistreated makes him want to protect her and prove his step dad that he is a man too. He is also wants to prove it to himself.) Going back to my story. I advised my buddy not to join the army for all the right reasons........ However he felt strong about it. I was very surprised to meet him 6 month later working as a sales associate at a new electronic store. He was happy about his new job and told me that he found beautiful girl. When I asked him what changed his opinion he told me that only his sports coach was able to change his mind. I never asked why a coach but not a mom, who was against him joining the army, changed his mind. But I think I understand why.
 
My advice. Your son does not have a respected male figure in his life. Your opinion in this situation is irrelevant for him simply because you are not a man. Your son probably experiencing a great deal of feeling degraded by his step dad who does not want to pay for his school. Joining the Army is a protest against him. It is like :" I am a man and I can prove this to you and to myself." 
  Rose, think: is there any respected by your son male figure you know? Talk to that man and ask him to talk to your son.
  If not, talk to your son's friends father and ask him to bring up the subject.
  IT HAS TO BE A MAN WHO TALKS TO YOUR SON. RESPECTED BY HIM!
  There is also a better alternative he might like and it could be a some solution for you : POLICE SHOOL.
I hope my advice will help you.
LenaC
 

[rose]

Thank you, everyone!
I've read your opinions, which were really a big help for me. They gave me strength to do what I suppose to do: to give my son to live his own life. I believe time has come.
Without you, guy, I'd probably still was unsure what to do. LenaC, you are absolutely right, he needs a man to guide him, my friends husband, who spent in the military 30 years talked with him today. My co-workers invited him and try to involve him in some of their activities.

I think military will be a challenge for my son, but I will think positively, and will try to pass him my positive thoughts.

Thank you, everyone, for your kindness and support!

P.S. As to my spending habits... Usually, we react on words which somehow related to us, probably some of those who decided to focus attention on this, instead of the main point of the topic, just have their own problems in that department. Well, sorry for you, hope you'll be better soon.

[Sohkay]

I don't even want to go there.

[BC]

I don't even want to go there.

Good move.

[Turboguy]

Humm, seems to be pretty common that lots of us have gone places we should not have.  You must be smarter than some of us Sohkay.

[Gator]

Rose,

I wish you and your son the best. 

[Admin]

Rose,

I wish you and your son the best. 

Excellent post - and sentiment.

I add my best wishes for BOTH you, Rose, and your son.

- Dan