Occupation of your Russian wives

[Rvrwind]

Elen et all...as this topic has branched out anyway & I previously did not reply to the original topic, I will do so now & speak to the second of taxes & government as well.

First, my wife is an artist, and yes she does work. Her works are well known in Russia & abroad to the point where it is even difficult for me to obtain them. Most of her works are special order & bought & paid for before she even starts the project. My only beef is for the work she does & hours she puts in, she is severly underpaid! 

Secondly, I chose to live in Russia rather than take my wife to Canada for many reasons, but two most specific ones. Russia is in an econmic boom, contrary to popular belief it is about where Canada was, economicaly speaking, during the 40's & 50's. I wasn't born then & by the time I was & old enough to go my own way to seek my fortune, so to speak, it was too late, others got there first.

Russia is a developing nation, climbing out of the quagmire that was communism, & I plan to be part of that development, in one form or another. Here I see many opportunies for enterprizing entrepenures & those with adventerouus souls who wish to accomplish & achieve what they never will in the west.

Truly things are not easy here & to achieve your goals is somewhat mired in red tape & paperwork, but with patience & perseverence & some clever foot work, anything is possible & I & many others, especially Canadians it seems, are living proof of that.

Elen, Darlin', I don't believe there are very many people such as me so outspoken against governments in general & taxes. I am a firm believer that 95% of politicians are what they are because they couldn't get a real job & like to live off the blood & sweat of others. I often found myself in trouble over the years for speaking out against 'the pork barrel bottom feeders' we call the govenment.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there needs to be some sort of governance, of that there is no question. I also believe that taxes are a nessessary evil & must be levelled & paid, of that there also is no question. My beef is the way it is implimented in both cases.

Governments very often change legislation & laws telling me it is for my own good, but never once asking me if I thought it was for my own good. Taxes, especially in Canada, seem to me to be only a benifit to the rich in the way they are currenlty applied & who are the rich? Well if they are not in government they are the ones who support it & that is why they are favoured by the government through tax consessions.

All that being said, Russia is not perfect, but then neither is anywhere else I have lived & believe when I say, I have been around. I have listened to many fellow Canadians bitch & complain constantly that they are fed up & tired of the status quo. The only problem is, & this is the bottom line, UNLESS YOU GET OFF YOUR FAT ASS & DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, IT AIN'T NEVER GOING TO CHANGE!!

Canada is supposed to be a great democracy. Don't kid yourself, that is only the outward perception, not the facts. I have been fined, persecuted & thrown in jail for speaking out & airing the truth. I am only 1 man & 1 man alone cannot change an entire country, but at least I had the gonads to try.

To give you an example: My mother who still lives in Canada tells me when I phone or e mail to watch what I say or write. She is afraid the government is listening & reading all my communications. Why is such paraonoia prevelant in a so called democrracy? Because it is only a democracy on the surface but peel the crust away & you see it for what it really is. Socialism at it's finest!

Russia is growing & changing rapidly. I just hope they have the strength & the fortitude not to go too far in the opposite direction. Common sense is a great thing & used wisely can be an awsome tool, all I ever wanted or expected from my goverrnment was to use some common sense, but it seems that was too much to ask.

Welcome to the New Revolution!!

Okay, I'm a radical, what can I say?

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[Elen]

:?

Now, you see I'm from those who was happy in socialist quagmire and who don't agree with such statement that Russia is in an econmic boom and you miss the fact I do pay taxes at my main work ( and if Government can't support social life with taxes paid from jobs where people spend 40 hours in a week, then it's just "XY@..@"  government and there is no need to pay taxes from my second job:X) and I doubt your own wife pays all taxes after selling her arts;) and ... blah-balh-balh ... off-topic on next 20 pages...

[Rvrwind]

Elen, I realize English is not your first language but you totally took that post out of context:(

Now, you see I'm from those who was happy in socialist quagmire Thats unfortunate,I mistakenly assumed you were more inelliigent & free willed, sorry. and who don't agree with such statement that Russia is in an econmic boom This is also too bad, that you can't seem to see what is going on around you. It is pretty obvious compared to 10-15 years ago.and you miss the fact I do pay taxes at my main work Not at all, didn't miss a thing, my post was not aimed at you, just was making observations in general.( and if Government can't support social life with taxes paid from jobs where people spend 40 hours in a week, then it's just "XY@..@" I agree, only two things you can count on in life-death & taxes!!! government and there is no need to pay taxes from my second job:X) Agree again! and I doubt your own wife pays all taxes after selling her arts;) Actually, yes, she does & so do I. I do find taxes here much more reasonable than in Canada however.and ... blah-balh-balh ... off-topic on next 20 pages...Agreed again,:)

I have no problem with paying taxes, as long as they are fair & spent properly by those in government.

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[Elen]

Elen, I realize English is not your first language but you totally took that post out of context

reference to sombody's knowledge of language if it's not his mother language is a bad manner. It's just for the case you don't know such things. And if you are not sure in my abbilities to understand yours English then repeat it all on Russian (I'm sure you do know how to do that)

 

Now, you see I'm from those who was happy in socialist quagmire Thats unfortunate,I mistakenly assumed you were more inelliigent & free willed, sorry.

 

Yeah, yeah all who were happy there are just "быдло"  for such inelliigent & free willed guys like you

This is also too bad, that you can't seem to see what is going on around you. It is pretty obvious compared to 10-15 years ago[/color]

Have any proved economic statistic or it"s  some conclusions a-la "Caucasian prisoner" movie -"Ты жизнь видишь только из окна моего персонального автомобиля, клянусь чессно слово":D Let say me what's so obviouse. In what spheras of economic or socisal life have Russia improved "achievement of socialism"?

0Just dodn't forget to mention the %s of population who can now enjoy with those "progresses" of yours)

Actually, yes, she does & so do I. I do find taxes here much more reasonable than in Canada however[/color]

Reminde me please of what country do you live in now as it seems we are speaking about different things? And if you wouldn't mind than enlight in short how do pensions, salaries for teachers and health care are payed with those more reasonable than in Canada taxes (and btw how much those  reasonable ??)

 

[Rvrwind]

Have any proved economic statistic or it"s  some conclusions a-la "Caucasian prisoner" movie -"Ты жизнь видишь только из окна моего персонального автомобиля, клянусь чессно слово":D Let say me what's so obviouse. In what spheras of economic or socisal life have Russia improved "achievement of socialism"?

0Just dodn't forget to mention the %s of population who can now enjoy with those "progresses" of yours)

Being a newspaper editor I am privy to information that the general public does not care to read about or are just plain to lazy too. Many things are changing, it can't happen overnight, these things take time. The socialists & communists have run this country into a big hole which will require much effort to dig out of. Wages are rising & of course so are prices. Life is what you make it, no matter where you live. If you only look with blinders & a closed mind you will only see what your limited vision allows you to see.

Reminde me please of what country do you live in now as it seems we are speaking about different things? And if you wouldn't mind than enlight in short how do pensions, salaries for teachers and health care are payed with those more reasonable than in Canada taxes (and btw how much those  reasonable ??)

 I live & work in Russia. But I don't limit my vision. Russia has a bright future if governed properly. Time & world economics are on the peoples side. I agree that many people are underpaid according to world standards but I also know that many people in the west are overpaid.

Currently I pay 25% of my income. To me that is fair as long as everyone pays the same & pays it. Too many people spend too much time trying to figure ways not to pay. I think a flat tax of 25% on income & buisness profit is plenty for any governmet to function properly & pay for all reasonable social programs. That is fair to everyone.

I don't post in Russian because it is not my native language & I cannot exspress my thoughts as clearly, thank you.

Just my opinion however.

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[Elen]

Being a newspaper editor ( May I ask what's newspaper?) I am privy to information that [/color]the general public does not care to read about or are just plain to lazy too

Ha-ha-ha!  If public does not care to read your newspaper it doesn't mean that it's public which's bad or lazy. May be problem with your newspaper:P

Many things are changing, it can't happen overnight, these things take time. The socialists & communists have run this country into a big hole which will require much effort to dig out of

When present democrats achieve the level at least of that  socialists & communists  hole had then you would have a right to estimate wich rule was better. Until now (15 years after the begining) you can't name even one improved parameter of ecomomic. (can you?? And I mean NUMBERS) You have only your "smart" words of editor of some paper.

[/color] 

Wages are rising & of course so are prices. Life is what you make it, no matter where you live. If you only look with blinders & a closed mind you will only see what your limited vision allows you to see.

[/color]

Have ever heard such conception like level of life? (I'm asure you it includes not only wages) And PLE-E-E-E-ASE open the horizonts of my limites vision with some numbers from some statistic  I would be thankfull if you prove me the majority of people in my country think the started to live better

Currently I pay 25% of my income. To me that is fair as long as everyone pays the same & pays it. Too many people spend too much time trying to figure ways not to pay. I think a flat tax of 25% on income & buisness profit is plenty for any governmet to function properly & pay for all reasonable social programs. That is fair to everyone

[/color]What's such tax in 25% of income:? Income-tax in Russia is 13% for every one never mind you are a school teacher with slave's salary or an oligarch with millions of stolen oil's $$$s. Very "fair" and very "reasonable". :? What else did you include in 25%?(to the other hand if you are not hired worker but a businessman who rules his own business then 25% is too low number for ALL obligated taxes)

(And to you inform the part of salary in price of product is 11-15% in Russia:? in comparation with 40-50% in developed countries. It's very "fair" and very "reasonable" to everyone as well).

http://www.taxpayers.ru/content/view/176/ That's for you (You are not lazy to read aren't you?) It's an article how Russians feel about taxes

 

 

[Bruno]

Currently I pay 25% of my income. To me that is fair as long as everyone pays the same & pays it. Too many people spend too much time trying to figure ways not to pay. I think a flat tax of 25% on income & buisness profit is plenty for any governmet to function properly & pay for all reasonable social programs. That is fair to everyone.

25% is not enough...

Since the evolution of family in russia begin be like in our country, i mean 1 children by family, the pension system will be difficult to keep... one young worker for pay the pension of parents and the pension of people who are not married...

For give a example, a worker in Belgium pay for around 2.5 other people... these other people are children ( education + monthly allocation to family ), invalid and handicap, people without work ( minimum income ), old people ( pension, a lot of old people ), ...

More, state pay for army, fireman, police, teacher, cleric, minister, senator, ...

Again more, state pay for build street and bridge, for help other country, ...

Here, our social system is working because we pay high tax... the boss pay a tax of 30% on all salary of worker, the worker pay 14.5% tax for social security, the worker pay around 30% to the state, the worker pay 21% tax on each product buy...

And our system work only because state have some reserve of money... these money make interest who allow the system to work... until russia have almost not more reserve, they was plumbert by the corruption, they need build it again of cut in the different social program...

But the best for us, it is our index system... our salary is coupled to the price of life... if the life become more expensive, our income raise...

Now, in russia, the price of product raise more that that the income... some people sleep in street, eat what they find in trashbin of restaurent... several people are exclude of the "positive side" of democratie... and they regret the time of communism, where everybody have a minimum...

Russia have go too much fast... and it is too late for come back... is it a solution ? The transition from comminism to democracy need to be a slow process... the perfect example is china... they are always communist but open slowly to the capitalism, the industry work very good... and worker begin change bike for auto... and again slowly, the democracy begin appear too...

We, Western country, we are in some way responsible of russia now... we need help Russia to stand up again... for our own security... imagine some revolution with nuclear weapon in hand of a fool... we need see our financial help like a investissment for ourself, it is not loosing money... a happy russian is not a dangerous russian...

We send milliard of $ to Irak for help to build a new economy and democratie... Russia have no more a dictator but they need our help too... of maybe it is need to wait a new Lenin for have some reaction from us ???

[Elen]

Russia have go too much fast... and it is too late for come back... is it a solution ? The transition from comminism to democracy need to be a slow process... the perfect example is china... they are always communist but open slowly to the capitalism, the industry work very good... and worker begin change bike for auto... and again slowly, the democracy begin appear too...

If you specify that statement "go to much fast" then it appeares that means sombodies were too quick to steal  government property (mostly irreplaceable nuature resourses) , sell a huge part of it at low price to the Westerns companies ( 70% of oils companies for exapmle) and quikly moved to the West with their families. And indeed it's too late to do something about that. And I doubt the West would be ready to do something at all . What's the reason?? Who do want to help to rise allient industry and grow up its own competitor?? It's economicaly profitable to keep the majority od Russian population in poverty for to have a cheap labours in country where you can suck oil from. Otherwise our oil would be too expensive wich is not good for western economy:? 

As for China the only one thing which deserves an exemplary is their "patriotism" about their own country. They don't ravage it like our democrats used to do with Russia. Other things are too specific to be immitated in others countries. (for example only 20% of China's  pupulation are included in pensions' sytem)

 

[Bruno]

Elen, i agree with you... the problem of modern investor, they wish profit in short term...

If i was with a lot of money, i go certainly invest it in russia... no for me... but for my little children... with invest in russia, the economie grow... if the economie grow, people have more money... if people have more money, they buy more.... if they buy more, my invest in russian industry is a good invest in long term...

And do you know that Europe is actually more socialist ( communist ) that russia now ... several sector like education, hospital, electricity, railroad, post, telephone was not so long ago propriety of state...

By example, for telephone, state have no sell the state compagny... now, the state compagny own the ligne and hire it to other private society... Belgium citizen have pay these ligne with taxe, it is propriety of every citizen... the service is propriety of private society...

Buy all is not always the right thing to make... see in UK, several problem with railroad... price are more cheap but the security is much lower now...

Ok, i stop now... i am again off topic...

[Elen]

And do you know that Europe is actually more socialist ( communist ) that russia now ... several sector like education, hospital, electricity, railroad, post, telephone was not so long ago propriety of state...

I do know:D That only strengthens my suspections about hypocrisy of the West  - you want  free market for Russians and at the same time prefer sosialist principles for yourselves

If i was with a lot of money, i go certainly invest it in russia... no for me... but for my little children... with invest in russia, the economie grow... if the economie grow, people have more money... if people have more money, they buy more.... if they buy more, my invest in russian industry is a good invest in long term...

What "industry" Bruno?? There is only one kind of industry here now - oil and gas (and something like that) wich will die soon as resourses could not be  inexhaustible forever.

 

Ok Well It certainly off topic

 

 

[TigerPaws]

What "industry" Bruno?? There is only one kind of industry here now - oil and gas (and something like that) wich will die soon as resourses could not be  inexhaustible forever.

Elen,

 At the curent and proposed rate of extraction Russia's known oil and gas reserves will last around 250 years, additionally the estimate if Russia's total reserves is in excess of a 350 year supply given the curent rate of extraction. So don't beleive Russia is going to run out of oil and gas to pump out of the ground any time soon

[Bruno]

What "industry" Bruno?? There is only one kind of industry here now - oil and gas (and something like that) wich will die soon as resourses could not be  inexhaustible forever.

Why do you think only to industry who use own natural resource... Belgium have no natural resource... our industry transform product... we buy orange in South America, we make a drink with it... and we sell it back to US...

I speak about build new industry with help of foreign money...

 

[Elen]

I have not idea where you got your numbers from Tiger

For today (though I have only numbers from BP Statistical Review of World Energy 2003 report but I don't think things proved since that)

http://energobusiness.kiev.ua/news/02-07-2003/BP_obnarodovala.html

 the oil in proven territories all round the world  will be enough only for the next 41 years (with possible territories it would be enough for the next 60 years) but it's for the whole world If we take a look for each countrt the pic would be more dramatic

Saudi Arabia - 262 mlrd b (25% of world's reserve) Cietainly thay just need to be liberated;) - 86 years for happiness at present speed of exhaustion

Irag - 112 (11%-100 years) Done! Liberated already

UAE - 98(9%-100 years)

Iran - 90 (9%- 73 years)

Kuwait - 96 (9%- 100 years)

Venezuela 78 (7% - 74 years)

Russia - 60mlrd bar. (6% - 22 years:?:?:?)l

USA - 30 mlrd bar (3% - 11 years) Who do care if we are the world police;) Yea??

 

With gas Russia is on the first place and we will have it for the next 81 years

Want a bet where the USA troops will fight for freedom next time?

[Elen]

 speak about build new industry with help of foreign money...

Any idea about spheras where the West have a need in new industries in the East, Bruno;)??

[TigerPaws]

I have not idea where you got your numbers from Tiger

 Your information is seriously OUT of DATE Elena, never trust the internet for up to date industrial information. Within the energy production industry where I have worked the numbers are much more accurate. Believe me the world is NOT gong to run OUT of oil reserves or other natural source of energy anytime soon.

[Elen]

out of date? May be But I don't think a huge oil stores new discovered since 2003.

But if so then I'd say - poor Russia We will never get rid of that our  damnation as "Oil injection" which our dying economy sits on:? and never start to produce something else (coz our oligarches can have luxurious life with any effort)

[Rvrwind]

Tiger wrote:

 Your information is seriously OUT of DATE Elena, never trust the Internet for up to date industrial information. Within the energy production industry where I have worked the numbers are much more accurate. Believe me the world is NOT gong to run OUT of oil reserves or other natural source of energy anytime soon.

Deffinetly have to agree. I don't know what rock you are living under but you seriously need to get out more because you don't have a clue as to what is going on in your own country.

1// Russian law states that no foriegn individual or company can own controlling stakes in any Russian company & as far as natural resources ie: oil & gas, they cannot even enter the market or bid at auctions for new oil fields or gas reserves without a Russian partner with controlling interest in the company.

2//The proven oil & gas reserves in Russia today if consumption remains as is will last a minimum of 300 years. With the growing consumption in China & the expansion of the Anzhero-Sudzhensk oil pipeline the growing demand in China may lower that to 250 years. That is only the proven reserves, most of the Sakhalin-1 & Sakhalin-2 fields have not even completed exploration yet so that figure will change in the future. There is still the off shore fields that are also currently in need of further exploration & investment.

How do I know all this & more:Because I edit for ROGE=Russian Oil & Gas (English), RBM=Russian Buisness Monitor, DSE=Defence & Security (English), & WPS=What The People Say. Also for 15NATIONS & MBE part time.Those are my credentials & yours are???

I don't know where you get your information but you seriously need to get out more!!

Bruno I seriously doubt that 25% is not enough. Canada with all open & hidden taxes totally 65% of my income & free healthcare & welfare & pogy, all the stuff you think is the good life still has people living in ditch's & eating out of garbage cans. Most people are where they are life because they have no ambition to be elsewhere. Also if the government didn't waste so much money on crap that is of no use to anyone, then they wouldn't need so much, am I right or wrong?

I have yet to see a government get involved in business & make money, the greater % is they lose it all & then some. If I ran my business in the same fashion I would be bankrupt in no time!!!

There job is to govern period & That is where it should end.

RVR

Canadian Cowboy[/size][/color][/font]

[Rvrwind]

But if so then I'd say - poor Russia We will never get rid of that our  damnation as "Oil injection" which our dying economy sits on:? and never start to produce something else (coz our oligarches can have luxurious life with any effort)

Crappola, these guys pay more in taxes & tariffs than you could ever dream of..

I will insert some examples:

RUSSIAN OIL COMPANIES TO PAY $65 BILLION TO THE TREASURY IN 2005
If oil does not get cheaper in 2005, oil companies will pay $60-65 billion in taxes to the budgets or approximately one-third more than in 2004. Due to the new brackets of the tax on production of natural resources (royalty) and high export duties all additional revenues will go to the stabilization fund.

In 2004, Russian oil producing and oil refining companies paid a record sum of taxes to the budgets of different levels, namely 1.2908 trillion rubles ($46.1 billion). Without the tax payments of YUKOS for the period between 2000 and 2002, oil companies paid approximately $42.5 billion to the treasury and their share in the overall tax revenues of the state grew dramatically. Whereas, according to the Finance Ministry between 1999 and 2001, it amounted to 14.3-14.4%, between 2002 and 2003, it amounted to 17.1-17.8% and in 2004, it reached 22.8%. An official of the Finance Ministry explains a high level of tax payments in 2004 by the high oil price (Urals crude cost $34.40 per barrel or $7.20 more than in 2003), as well as changing of the export duty rate and royalty rate, which "grew more progressive." For low oil prices the export duty and the royalty rates remained unchanged and for high prices they grew dramatically.

In 2005, oil companies will pay to the budgets even more. On March 21, President of TNK-BP Robert Dudley said, "We summed up all taxes and duties paid in 2004, and received a sum larger than $6.5 billion. According to preliminary estimates, in 2005, we will pay more than $10 billion in taxes to all levels of the country's budget." The reasons for such significant growth (by 53.8%) are record oil prices and preplanned oil production growth (by approximately 7%), explains Dudley. Tax payments of LUKoil will not grow so much. Director of the investor relations department of LUKoil Gennady Krasovsky presumes that if oil does not grow cheaper, its average price in the full year will be 15-20% higher than in 2004, "and this means that our tax payments may grow from $9 billion in 2004, to $11-12 billion." An official of one of the federal agencies states, "Both companies have ceased doing tax minimization a long time ago. Thus, growth of payments is connected only with the tax rates and oil price."

Majority of oil analysts predict that in the full year an average price of Brent crude will be approximately $41-44 per barrel and Urals crude $38-40 per barrel. According to Yevsei Gurvich, senior researcher of the Economic Expert Group, if an average price of Urals is $40 per barrel, oil companies will pay $20 billion more to the budget than in 2004, which is $60-65 billion. According to him, this growth is almost fully (95%) facilitated by the export duty and the royalty. Gurvich adds that given standard oil prices the tax burden on oil is not too big but 87% of revenues from super high prices are taken through export duty and the royalty. Analyst of Alfa-bank Anna Butenko presented similar estimates. According to Butenko, tax payments of oil companies will grow from $42 billion to $62.7 billion and 86% of growth will be facilitated by the royalty and export duty.

The main taxes on oil companies grew noticeably. The export duty on oil that amounted to $55.80 per ton on average in 2004, will exceed this level by almost 100% from April 1,, reaching $102.60 per ton (now it amounts to $83 per ton). The royalty that amounted to 1,053 rubles per ton in 2004, on average, reached 1,397 rubles per ton now. Alexander Sakovich, director of a department of the Finance Ministry, is convinced, "Nonetheless, oil companies earn crazy profits both on the foreign and on the domestic markets and even export of fuel oil is profitable." Butenko agrees that "Complaints of oil companies that all gains from the growth of prices goes to the budget are a little bit exaggerated." She adds that due to the "sparing" regime of new export duties on petroleum products the state receives 76-80% of the gain in oil price on top of $25 per barrel.

The additional $20 billion to be paid by the oil industry will refill the stabilization fund because now it receives revenues from the export duty and royalty from oil prices exceeding $20 per barrel, says an official of one of the federal ministries.
<ref>Vedomosti, March 22, 2005

The Russian government is the biggest problem as everything they are doing now is hindering foreign investment & wether you like it or not without foreign investment Russia will not survive:

<tit>THE NEW BILL "ON SUBSURFACE MANAGEMENT" MAY LEAVE THE RUSSIAN OIL INDUSTRY WITHOUT INVESTMENTS
The new bill on subsurface management is actually another step towards centralization of not only state ownership but also power. Neither the authors of the bill nor other members of the cabinet of ministers hide this. They see the fact that henceforth subsurface will be considered exceptional federal property as the main advantages of the new version of the bill "On subsurface management."

Although the concept of the bill contradicted the principle of division of powers between the center and the regions, this circumstance did not encounter serious objections from ministers. During debating of the bill "On subsurface management" at the meeting of the government on March 17 only two government members, Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Zhukov and Minister of Industry and Energy Victor Khristenko, recalled this. Zhukov asked Natural Resources Minister Yury Trutnev, the main author of the bill, directly, "Which powers will local authorities have after passing of the new bill?" Trutnev did not answer the question. However, he answered another question that was not asked, "We do not make provisions for the possibility of subsurface management for private individuals." Khristenko did not argue with Trutnev. He only noted that during correction of the bill to be completed by April 17 "it is necessary to do accurate streamline the competences of the power bodies."

Finance Minister Alexei Kudrin, unlike his colleagues who tried to settle the problem of division of powers so important for the regions, immediately tried to protect the rights of foreign investors. The new bill deprives them of the rights to use subsurface in Russia directly. Although, as foreign investors say, they do not see anything super new in this novelty (foreigners already have to act on the Russian market through their Russian subsidiaries), liberal Kudrin did not like the harshness of the bill.

He asked, "How much investment will we need for development of fields in the next ten to twenty years?" When he was answered, "2.5 trillion rubles" he continued, "Do you believe that we will be able to do without foreign investments?" Trutnev answered the question with a question of his own, "Why should we respect ourselves less than the US?" Trutnev explained, "We propose foreigners to get registered according to Russian laws." Kudrin asked, "What is the point of limitations on acquisition of controlling stakes by foreigners?" Trutnev said that the limitation was applicable only to strategic fields. According to him, of the 250 fields there are only six strategic ones and there would be no such fields left by 2007.

At this point Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov interfered into the discussion dedicated to investments and patriotism. He hinted to Trutnev that he had no need to justify himself, that he was a real patriot and was conducting "a well-considered policy in national interests." After that Kudrin could only keep silent until the end of the meeting. Thus, Trutnev said his final words when his opponent was already neutralized, "Kudrin asked if we would have enough money or not. Our investors have more than enough money for the six strategic fields. Creation of the possibility for limitations will be discussed by the government in each separate case."

Economic Development and Trade Minister German Gref supported the bill ardently and practically without critique. He said that the document "reduces corruption radically." Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Zhukov did not quite agree with this statement and could not understand the mechanism of "granting the right to manage subsurface without auctions." He remarked, "I would like to see a detailed explanation right in the bill."

Fradkov also spoke about the tax on production of natural resources (royalty). Fradkov demanded Gref "not to postpone discussion of the proposal to differentiate royalty." Gref agreed, "If we do not do this quickly, we will lower the level of production and will increase social tension in the regions."

Finally the government approved the new bill "On subsurface management" in general and allocated a month to its authors for correction.
<ref>Vremya Novosti, March 18, 2005

And thems the facts!!

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[TigerPaws]

Deffinetly have to agree. I don't know what rock you are living under but you seriously need to get out more because you don't have a clue as to what is going on in your own country.

 

 Please excuse Elen for her ovious ignorance, remember she lives in Russia where the news media is totally controlled by the state she can not help herself.

 

[GregfromGa]

All I know is this thread got hijacked and turned into a big ole pissin contest. It's a shame because this board can be better than that.

[Elen]

Please excuse Elen for her ovious ignorance, remember she lives in Russia where the news media is totally controlled by the state she can not help herself

Firstly May be it's you TWO who can't read at all I gave out a REPORT of WORLD Organisation and gave a link to the article It's your problems than you neigther can read on Russian (though both of you have Russian wifes, and one even live in Russia ) nor find the same sourse on English to prove I was wrong. You HAVE  gave only you own smart thoughts

Secondary. My point was Russian has only oil-gas oriented economy and that ie VERY bad forall of us. (but very fine as I see for such foriegner like you because you absolutely don't care how the other 70% of Russian live who don't involved in oil-gas industry. Everyone who live HERE do know that problem. All you worry about is "poor" Hodorkovsky.

Thirdly. You two absolutely have not idea how to discuss anything. All you can do is product personal offences
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[Rvrwind]

Your right Greg & for that I aologiize; politics is unfortnately is a topic I should for one, never discuss, I get too passionate & wrapped up in it.

Like the old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink!

I'm just wondering though, if things are so bad here, then all those people walking out of Eldorado & other big electronics stores with computers, stereos, big screen TV's, washers & dryers, well I guess they must all be foreigners.

RVR

Canadian Cowboy

[BC]

All I know is this thread got hijacked and turned into a big ole pissin contest. It's a shame because this board can be better than that.

I guess it's pretty much up to the topicstarter to keep things in line and remind folks if he/she thinks the thread is going too far off course.

In this case I'm quite sure the topicstarter agrees to the direction the thread is going

[Elen]

I'm just wondering though, if things are so bad here, then all those people walking out of Eldorado & other big electronics stores with computers, stereos, big screen TV's, washers & dryers, well I guess they must all be foreigners.

If all your conslusions about life in Russia are based on your visites to Eldorado then I have nothing to discuss with you. Keep living in your outlined circle and thinking that such stores like Eldarado filled with stuff from China is the main prove of well being of Russian economy.

[BC]

Most of what I hear is that prices are going up up up.. but wages and pensions not going anywhere.