The Real Allure?

[BC]

The real allure?  It has nothing to do with Russian women but with you .  Think about it.

Astute.

[Albert]

Rivardco, Kuna, and Av8or1:  You guys are smoking too much whacky tobaccy.   If you aren't already doing so, I think you can possibly make a go of it as a romance novel writer for the women's pulp books.

There are no real differences between RW and AW in terms of the variables you are talking about.

The only thing of real substance is that you can trade up in terms of looks, education, culture and youth, etc.  For each FSU woman who turns you on, there is a similar woman in the west.  But the western woman is not attainable by you, the FSU woman is attainable.  She is attainable primarily because of economic conditions.  She is trying to trade up also.

Can the woman who is trying to trade up for economic reasons come to love you?  Yes she can and it will be real.

But don't delude yourselves as to why you are looking to the FSU and don't delude yourself as to why you are able to attract a gal there that you can't attract in the west.

Aside from trading up, there is that nice accent.  But, unfortunately (at least for me) after I am with a woman for a few days I don't notice the accent at all since it becomes common to me.

[DKMM]

Disagree Albert.

The AW is obtainable by me, but not wanted by me.  It is the intangibles that an FSU girl brings to the relationship (culture, values, attitude, accent etc.) that sets her above AW.  No AW is capable of what a lot of girls there I've met are like.  Not unless the AW is pretending to be something she's not...

I highly doubt I'm the only one here in that boat.

[av8or1]

Yeah Albert, although I have agreed with some of your other posts, I think you're the one who is on some kind of hallucinatory stimulant WRT this issue.  Who ever said I can't attract a similar AW?  For me the reality is that I can in terms of the qualities that you have stated: "looks, education, culture and youth" but the problem with such women is that they're self-absorbed and believe that "it's all about me."  I have found that most RW/UW who have your aforementioned qualities DON'T possess so much of a selfish nature (though some do).

And isn't that is what is at the heart of this whole endeavor?  Trying to find a woman who doesn't have the CRAPPY qualities that AW have?  I mean Hello?!  Albert?  Are you ACTUALLY trying to say that there is not a personality difference between RW/UW and AW WRT issues of character and family values?  Holy hell but I hope not.  I mean, what IS the color of the sky in your world anyway?

Best to all,

Jerry

[Kuna]

Drivel drivel, blah blah, splutter splutter, stick both feet in mouth and accuse 3 people of being no more than poor dumb beasts...

Albert, 

I understand your comments are either crude generalisations or your own personal experiences and motivations, but they have nothing to do with me.

I'm trading up, but only in respect to values.  If I do meet a FSU girl she will be trading up when it comes to financial position, but the same is true for every single girl I've dated here. Women all over the world seek security and safety, it's only natural.  Actually, for the sake of their children, it's highly commendable!

I'm not deluding myself and I'm not assured of success, but I choose to look for something real, not something bought.

I know FSU girls aren't perfect, none of us are. I'm just looking for someone more compatible with my own families values than I've found at home.

What I seek is Genuine, Emotional, Reciprocated Love, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

It may sound like a bad romance novel, but then again I'm not the type to sit around at a Monster Truck Meet scratching "the boys". Just like FSU girls, we are all individuals with different life experiences, backgrounds, capabilities, and goals.

You may now flame me.   

Kuna

[BC]

What I seek is Genuine, Emotional, Reciprocated Love, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

No flame, but may I offer a little 'sunshine'? 

Hate to sound harsh, but probably the only way to guarantee what you unabashedly seek is with a puppy.  Even then many fail in the long run as is evidenced by your local animal shelter or nearby highway.

The qualities you describe are results of a LOT of work, over time, when building a relationship.  It's not a given at the outset and even once achieved takes great effort to maintain.

Don't be deceived like so many others with easily found 'puppy love' when you first meet your vision of a great woman.

[Kuna]

No flame, but may I offer a little 'sunshine'? 

Hate to sound harsh, but probably the only way to guarantee what you unabashedly seek is with a puppy.  Even then many fail in the long run as is evidenced by your local animal shelter or nearby highway.

The qualities you describe are results of a LOT of work, over time, when building a relationship.  It's not a given at the outset and even once achieved takes great effort to maintain.

Don't be deceived like so many others with easily found 'puppy love' when you first meet your vision of a great woman.

BC,

Sunshine is always welcome and don't worry, I won't be deceived. I understand how sinister people can be, including some women.

However, if I wanted a puppy I'd settle down with one of the pretty young things I've been dating at home but realistically I'm looking for more, or less, whichever way you look at it.

I guess the intent of your message was to say that a successful marriage takes a lot of hard work, common interests, respect for eachother and understanding when either the woman or the "buffoon" err. (I say buffoon because...  well... let's be honest, us men are frequently inept when it comes to matters of the heart)

I've had my own failed marriage and understand my mistakes as well as my ex-wife's mistakes. That was 10 years ago.  Since then I've had the frivolous rebound releationship that lasted for 4 years, a couple of 12 month flings, and in the "lonely times" I've dated so much I've become the "commitment phobia joke" for my married friends.

One of those friends has been married to a Ukrainian girl for 12 years and they have THE most balanced, respectful and fulfilling relationship I've seen.  It's not because she's Ukrainian, it's because they're compatible.

Sure they'd had their hard times but it's a good, strong, honest relationship. (Tough times = Deaths in the family, he had cancer, IVF, she really struggled to settle in, she doesn't like living in the country town they're in but he's forced to because of his work).

I'm not expecting an easy ride, or a fairytale. I'm not even expecting to find a real life Princess during my holiday, what I am looking forward to is the experience, and MAYBE meeting someone that captures my interest and satisfies my logic.

What I do know is that I won't settle for less than I expect, no matter what accent a girl has.

Thanks for your comment.   

[jb]

Well, here we are in Houston, visiting with a friend until Etna's flight time.

DMKK, av8tor, Kuna,

None of us are trying to tell you guys what to do, or what not to do.  That's not our style.  However you guys are sending alarm bells a-ringing with some of your posts.  What each of us has attempted to do is to caution you about over romanticising the concept of what it means to have a FSU woman for a wife.

As I said up thread, in your cases it's a little like unringing a bell.  Each of you seem to have already been completely hooked.  In av8tor's case, he has already made some trips and spent time in Russia, so there is some justification for his addiction.  That isn't the case of a man who hasn't been there yet, the only real or imagined knowledge some of the newbies have is what you read here and elsewhere on the web, mostly from MOB agency sites which are designed to seperate you from vast sums of money.  Believe me, in the real world it's not the same.   We can tell you that it's hard to find a good woman, we can stress to you that the MOB agencies are sharks, we can relate how difficult it is to maintain a good relationship with a RW, and we can tell you a few things as they relate to our individual relationships.   

We can also tell from some of the responses that we are maybe not getting through to you.  You may read, but your mind is already made up, therefore you do not want to hear anything negative about the concept.  Believe me again when I say, there's a lot of negatives about this process.  The board has a goodly share of Rah-Rah cheerleaders, funny thing is, none of the most outspoken cheerleaders are married men.  That should give you a clue.

I'll be back home and on my own computer later tonight, I have to put the wife on a plane to Russia this afternoon and then am faced with a 5 hour drive afterwards. 

BTW, we have made some important connections with Russian travel agents this past few days and have saved a ton of money on this airfare.  After I've had a chance to formulate my thoughts about this, perhaps I'll be able to pass along some valuable money saving information.  Right now I'm a bit scattered so it'll have to wait.

Cheers

[IAmZon]

JB,

In reading old threads, I initially saw you as course.  I pictured you as sort of an Archie Bunker kind of guy:)

Now I see you as one of the very best voices of reason for guys like me who have developed this itch ... this curiosity ... not an obsession yet.

Don't go anywhere, Dude!  I fear these are only the early days for me.  You could be a BIG help.  I am certain I will make good entertainment.

Have a good drive.

[Kuna]

JB,

Thanks for your comments and cautions.  They're well received and most importantly, accepted.

All of the words of caution are really appreciated, and most of you guys have my immediate respect. 

Some other comments in here are illinformed but the posters can only be speaking from personal experience. It doesn't necessarily make their opinions wrong, just inappropriate.

When it comes to moving down this path my eyes and ears are open, but my fly and wallet are firmly shut.   

Kuna

[Jumper]

Jb- great post.

kuna-  rereading my post , it was more negative than i intended really.

like jb mentions,

i often see guys post
 "generalized glowing romanticised reviews of RW , and their wholesome traditional family values"
and well, think about it,
 it is seldom the married guys.,and seldom guys who have made a trip or two.

that should be taken by those with no experience, to heart.

are there great RW? absolutely!
There are also great AW..

The whole allure and reason to search abroad IMHO,
 should be to open up your dating pool to more possibilities of finding a great woman,
not because of some preconcieved notions that a large bulk of some *cultures* population would produce a great wife for you..just by inheirent cultural differences or traits..

in the case of RW , it just isnt true.

youll find just as many selfish people as in the US.
maybe more! 
and just as many sweethearts, maybe more, maybe less.

brutal honestly? and things no newbie likes to hear?
a real gem , is a rare in any culture.
its why its refered to as a gem!
 a precious stone, uncommon!
finding one who also loves you,. takes a lot of tme and effort
and likely MORE effort if you are dating cross culturally, long distance, and with some varying degree of  language barrier.


the culture IS different, it may or may not effect your relationship at all!  as that will be one on one!  with an individual.

on of the very few FSU  things that do effect this whole *business* :
being married and having a family is much more stressed ,and the simple reality of the living situation, in that culture.
So a woman of 25 or gawd forbid 30 ,unmarried without children, is likely to be considered an old maid.

That is quite different than most western culture,anmd frankly thats a big difference,and one of the few i can think of that truly at its heart effects the MOB biz as far as culture goes.

the other factors are far more uncomfortable for most guys, as they are economic..


overall looking somewhere else, broadening your dating pool is certainly a positive thing!

on top of that-
 most western guys married to RW, that i know ,
including myself ,  are very very happily married!!

its just that honestly very very little of our personal marriage success has anything to do with her nationality or culture.
in fact it has just as many negative effects, as positive.
it evens itself out.
Maybe thats just my personal experience, and it wont reflect on anyone elses situation,,

but to me it seems  most married guys would tell you the same, that her nationality or culture while quite revelent, is very quickly  not much of a factor in the ultimate succes of your marriage or relationship. So whatever rosey notions or romaticised thoughts men have of the FSU womern and culture , in your personal one on one relationshiup long term, it wont be a big factor.

the bottom line is the only reason newbies dwell on it ? praise it , etc.. is to justify a choice they have already made or planning to make, ,and to bolster their hopes and dreams going "in" to the process.
 
 simply put, there are better justifications.





 
 

[viking]

AJ

on of the very few FSU  things that do effect this whole *business* :
being married and having a family is much more stressed ,and the simple reality of the living situation, in that culture.
So a woman of 25 or gawd forbid 30 ,unmarried without children, is likely to be considered an old maid.


I keep hearing this about women over 30, single or divorced, no children and considered an 'outcast' of some kind. Yet in some conversations with THEM, they appear not to be haing a problem with this issue. Is this still true today?
Is this more in the country than the bigger cities?
Can some of the ladies respond to this?

[Jumper]

viking- like all generalizations,  it just that "in general"

i hate doing that,  because of course there are more exceptions thabn rules in human relationships?

anyway my thoughts are:
 "in general" the FSU culture , and just the economic situation,
availible jobs for women etc,
puts more emphasis on both being married, and having a family than "here"

are those same pressures in place here? certainly!!
but the age range is a little different?

my wife was 23 when i met her, just 25 when we married, (28 now), and in her mind, her friends minds , her families minds , it was certainly time for her to start looking for a husband and start a family.She would soon be past her prime!!
seems silly to me, but is a reality of the most common thinking there.We still have a lot of pressure on when we will have a child, much more than we would get on this side of the ocean.
as in her mother and fathers mind its just a matter of course that we would have children, and as quickly as possible! lol!
My wife thinks 30 is a bit too old to have children..(not physicvally, just in general) so her biological clock is ticking away!
and honestly all her friends of the same age range, her college pals, etc, are all, every one ,are  married.mostly with children, and most married before she did,, she was the old maid of the group.
This group of young RW ,are all from a very large Ukrainian city.

compare that to the same age range here where parents would likely be counseling thier daughter or son of those ages to be patient and take thier time to marry..

Part of this may be in the FSU they generally enter college at an earlier age and graduate into the job market earlier as well?


certainly there are plenty of 30 something RW with careers and
are fine and well adjusted with being single..??
There is no way to stereotype a whole population..


i would say though from most of the young RW i know, they would find that type of *thinking* strange, as she should want a husband and family , as a matter of course.. lol

Hey ask them (a young RW) and they arnt in a hurry to marry ,,
but they dont plan to wait untill 30 either!
contridiction? not really to a RW.


also a single ,never married 30-35yo RW is likely fairly rare?
(compared to HERE, that certainly doesnt mean they dont exist in the thousands)
and not a person that would be likely to answer siuch a generalization with much accuracy..as of course she would be comfortable with her own situation, wether it was typical or uncommon.

 This doesnt mean they would be outcast in any way shape or form?
in fact a single divorced RW of that age is very very common.

[vwrw]

From JB:   
We can tell you that it's hard to find a good woman, we can stress to you that the MOB agencies are sharks, we can relate how difficult it is to maintain a good relationship with a RW,…
We can also tell from some of the responses that we are maybe not getting through to you.  You may read, but your mind is already made up, therefore you do not want to hear anything negative about the concept.  Believe me again when I say, there's a lot of negatives about this process.

DMKK, Kuna,
It sounds to me as they try to inspire you to think it is hard…it is difficult… there's a lot of negatives about this process. But despite on their words you still enjoy all this process. Maybe they already forgot the huge pleasure and happiness a man feels when he has overcame the difficulties and has won the sharks.    

[DKMM]

To quote from my TR:

"In any case I'm ruined as far as AW go, there is no comparison.  I feel bad for AW and the poor guys that marry them."

I stand by my comment and base it on my experiences with women from both cultures.  Its not debatable in my mind whether or not go with a FSU gal.  I have yet to hear of any negative aspects that would steer me otherwise.  I hear the "you can find a comparable AW here" from my friends all the time, but ONLY from the few that are happily married.  Some guys are ok with AW, I'm simply not.

I do agree that this process is incredibly challenging...

[av8or1]

jb,

Go back and re-read my initial post on this topic.  I think you missed the part where I said that this process isn't easy and that I realize that there is no guarantee that going to the FSU will result in me finding me type of marriage I have hoped for.  So, I dunno why you stand opposed to pretty much anything I say, perhaps it is because of the whole Tver thread.  Maybe it's because I'm not against agencies and you are, dunno either.  And your comment that I "don't want to hear anything negative about this process" is ... idiotic to say the least because I have stated in my posts that there are pitfalls to International courtship.  Heck if ANYONE knows that this process is full of holes, it's me.  'Been there, done that, got the shirt jb, so get off my back.

Eh, whatever.  I'll be interested to hear what you have to say about the travel agency stuff you mentioned in your last post.  Can't get enough good contacts in that area even if the info comes from a biased, incorrectly judgemental source.

Best to all,

Jerry

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling that those who say you can find a comperable American woman are people who have been married quite a while and whose memory of the American dating scene comes from very old memories. 

It usually only takes one trip to the FSU to loose interest in AW.   No one knows better than me how hard the process of finding the right gal can be.  I think it is important to look beyond beauty and to find a person you are really compatable with.  If she is an FSU woman she will probably be beautiful anyway.  I think one of the pitfalls in this process is too many people put too much emphasis on the physical side of a woman. 

It doesn't take reading here too long to realize that being married to an FSU woman is not the walk in the park the agency's try to say it is.  Still I don't see too many long time married guys who would do it differently if they could.  Yes, someone who thinks he is going to have a Stepford wife is going be be in for a big shock. 

Frankly I think if jb thinks he is going to talk anyone into abandoning their persuit he is wasting his breath.  I think it is good that he opens peoples eyes to the difficulties they will face and that it may give them a good dose of reality.

I have a feeling that guys like Jerry and DKMM will do just fine.  I think the best educating someone can get in their search for an FSU woman is at RWD.   They have read enough to know what they are facing.

[jb]

I have a girlfriend of my wife who is the "Perfect" woman in all regards. 

You guys want a "pet",,, here she is.

[Turboguy]

Nice pic jb.   She should be a dream gal for any leg man. 

[Kuna]

DMKK, Kuna,
It sounds to me as they try to inspire you to think it is hard…it is difficult… there's a lot of negatives about this process. But despite on their words you still enjoy all this process. Maybe they already forgot the huge pleasure and happiness a man feels when he has overcame the difficulties and has won the sharks.    

vwrw,

Again, in one short post you've spoken more sense and left a bigger impression than many of the other posts put together...

Succinct, astute, uncomplicated...

Please stay around and post your thoughts whenever you have the time and are inclined.  Your words carry a lot of value.

Thank you!

Kuna

[Bruno]

It usually only takes one trip to the FSU to loose interest in AW.

Sure ??? If you have no interest in AW, don't click the picture below...

[Kuna]

... a woman of 25 or gawd forbid 30 ,unmarried without children, is likely to be considered an old maid.

I can't comment in detail about AW but let me promise you that an Australian woman's body-clock starts audibly ticking at age 30.  She wonders what went wrong, blames her failed relationships, becomes more aggressive about finding the "future father of her children", and develops unreasonable expectations as a way to protect herself from future heartache.  (by the way, I don't blame them, I've seen men do abhorant things to some of these girls).

To be honest though, once Aussie girls get to that stage they are often defensive, delusional, and a downright pain in the butt...  

I've dated them and would have no problems settling down with one IF I found someone who was compatible with MY values.

After some pretty intensive "sport-dating" I hadn't found one I wanted to settle down with so my next solution was to date younger girls... Some of those were physically "perfect", but I just couldn't find the "essence" I was looking for.  I NEED mental stimulation, not just physical...

Anyway, I'm off on a holiday and I will meet some girls while I'm away. Will it be a cake walk?  I don't imagine so.  Will I meet a "perfect princess". I doubt it.  Will I get ripped off?  Very possibly, but most likely by unscrupulous cabbies or shopkeepers.  Will I be wasting my money?  Absolutely not!  How could a great adventure ever be seen as a waste?

By the way... I've thought about not using an agency, but I think the benefit of an agency is that the girls using them have already decided they would (probably) move to another country if they found the right guy.  I would expect I'll meet girls in everyday situations while I'm away, but they may not be prepared to leave their lives at home for any man (and who would blame them?)

Still... I appreciate the comments here... all of the positive and most of the negative ones.  

Kuna

[Kuna]

Sure ??? If you have no interest in AW, don't click the picture below...

 

Bruno... the filename gives it away.  I think I choose NOT to click.  HAHAHAHA!

Kuna

[Bruno]

Bruno... the filename gives it away.

Nope... the filename is from me... the original was with a other name... with a street background... i have simply changed the street background to a transparent background... Perfect example how some people can reach bad conclusion from some tiny information 

No click ??? 2 people have click it already... 

[Kuna]

No click ??? 2 people have click it already... 

hahaha... I'm scared!  I can deal with all this talk about those terrible Ukrainian women and those rip-off agencies but that pic is freaking me out!

 

Let me think about it while I'm cooking dinner!